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A few things:
KF91. Its highly unlikely that there are 2 hatters in a 30 player game. That makes 4 town KP vs. a mafia's max 3 KP in one night. Not to mention there's ninjas in the game. Which should have made you think something was weird when BrownBear claimed hatter. If I were you, i would have instantly placed a bomb on BrownBear that night. Why? First off, its really unlikely that he's hatter, as I've said before. Second of all, town doesn't know this because for all they know, you could be the fake hatter. It will take them analysis and extra time/effort to try to figure out which one of you is lying and quite possibly could lead to a bad result. So the easiest thing to do (and a main reason why mafia usually don't claim KP roles) is to place a bomb on BB. After maybe placing another bomb, you would be set to ask to be lynched. Mafia cannot replicate this effect, as asking to get themselves lynched would do nothing but lose a mafia member needlessly. You have the advantage of having more information than the town at this point. And unlike DTs or medics, you can do something about it. Take matters into your own hands and bomb the fakeclaimer like he deserves to be 
Side note: to clarify, its hard for mafia to fake claim town KP roles because of how easy it is for the real KP roles to off them. Say its a small 11 player game. If mafia fake claims vig, the real vig just pops him at night using the information he knows (that he isn't mafia). Can any other role, say, a DT or medic replicate this effect? No. Like a hatter/vig, DT KNOWS that the fakeclaimer is mafia. But unlike vig/hatter, DT can't do anything about it. DT can't get a mafia DT fakeclaimer killed wihtout convincing the town he's legit. Medic likewise. But vig/hatter doesn't need to convince the town of anything. All they do is hit/place a bomb on the fake claimer during the night and now you don't need to worry about towns.
Another thing. Town plans. Like last game, this game's town plan was terrible, yet yielded a good result. I'd like to know for certain how Xelin could prove his innocence, but I think its probably something like he got tracked to BM day 1 and BM didn't die so Xelin is either blue/framer/neighbor? And after framer dies hes legit. Either way, the obvious hole in the plan this game was that there was no watcher. This game shows that you can't really make plans based off of assumptions of roles that may or may not exist. Notice what happened here: besides the very lucky scenario that Xelin happened to be a neighbor, town would have accomplished nothing otherwise. Suppose Xelin was a townie (like he thought himself to be.) Town loses a WHOLE DAY of blue night actions. Trackers tracks were useless, when they could have been out trying to find scum. Medics protected one person, which allowed mafia to take a free shot at anyone else in the game (in this instance, Foolishness, who luckily was a veteran). Overall, town would have been set back a day if Xelin wasn't conveniently a neighbor. They would have lost valuable information and time and would just have extra dead townies to show for it. Not much of a plan if you ask me.
Reading through day 1 of the thread was hillarious. I was originally going to make a post simply quoting all the posts where people made silly/incorrect assumptions. As I am on vacation and not at home, I don't have time to do this, but I'm pretty confident that I could get pages and pages worth of posts making terrible assumptions. Knowing what you know now as town, just skim through the first 30 pages of posts and you'll see what I'm talking about. This is one thing that wrecks towns. Making assumptions (especially in plans) and acting based on those assumptions, leading to terrible conclusions and valuable wasted time.
Also, just for curiosity, I'd like to know what youngminii thinks of his own play now that the game is over and I won't get the in-game slant from other motives (although I still might get another set of unwanted motives acting in this situation.)
Last thing: something which I hope Ver adds in his post-game analysis is an analysis of the red players this game. (I know writing post game analysis is very time consuming, but I hope its not too much extra work to do this. I would do this if I was at home and had time  ) I think an analysis of the mafia members by an outsider can be valuable for town to know what to look for, and for the mafia to know what not to do in the future. (I know you had this information somewhere, maybe its just not written down yet). IMO this game should be a good example to use since all the mafia were fairly transparent in the thread and there isn't too much need to go through pms/there is less guessing involved this game. i.e. the information here is more concrete than in other games.
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Aww, I thought I was being pretty sneaky.
Flame told me you pegged me as mafia early, would you mind telling me what tipped you off?
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for what it's worth i think young was genuinely inactive, and not just faking it.
though it could have just been the timezone difference
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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
BM.
For fuck's sake.
Stop multi-posting.
Edit: Next time James you're going to be slapped if you play like that again!
No, seriously, it's vaguely okay since your win conditions are grey, but you should have at least checked Bill Murray on Night 3. I know at that point you only had one chopstick after shooting Divinek and it's perfectly okay to say that "you were afraid of losing your last kill since then you'd have to get Bill lynched", and the only reason I okay'ed checking Misder was because you had something about "town circle not trusting you if you didn't."
Edit 2: Completing the cycle with XeliN RNGing back to Bill was lucky. Otherwise, yeah, there would have been much lulziness. Mafia should have been offing claims once they started popping up day 2, especially the tracker claims. You guys should have shot Chezinu for saying that BC's smurf stayed home. Should have shot rastaban because he claimed tracker (or so I remember? Either way, BrownBear had him on the kill list before it got shuffled around a million times), and then keeping the shot on DTA would have netted three dead trackers. Bam, town wasted yet another day trying to complete the plan, a Ninja was lynched, and come Day 3 three dead trackers wash up on the shore.
Edit 3: Then again, it seemed like Chezinu was pretty much afloat in his own sea most of the time anyway. Also I don't know why Roffles or zeks seemed blue, but I'm obviously biased.
Much more to think about and say, but I can't remember it at this point. Ver's got me though, so it's all good :>
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it's habit, is it really that big of a deal?
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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
On August 18 2010 15:29 Bill Murray wrote:
it's habit, is it really that big of a deal?
Yes, since multi-posting is frowned upon on this site as a rule of thumb.
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My post game thoughts-
Pandain: Dude, I am so confused by you. You had the perfect cover as a ninja - claiming ninja with the wrong number? None of us thought you were ninja. The day you got lynched, you notice how everyone voted for you, went back to youngminii, then went back to you? It was because you were such a bad liar that we thought you were mafia. We heard you go around claiming ninja with 4 ninjas, but we knew there were only 3 because of BM/BC. Sure, one of them could have been lying, but both of them? I doubt it. Anyway, you then later claimed like DT or Townie or something, and we were like, "Alright, he's just a really bad fishing townie." But then you sent that PM to BB that was like "Oh I read it as 3 OTHER ninjas, not 3 ninjas," when we knew the wording was "2 other ninjas." So, with the emphasis on OTHER, you made us think that you were saying your role PM said "There are 3 ninjas", in which case, you were lying terribly, and we thought you were mafia for it. So then I pushed for your lynched, and everyone switched back.
youngminii: Man, I can't believe town didn't off him the day after my death. I mean, you guys ended up lynching bumatlarge, so that's kinda alright, but to me, it was so obvious. 6 people were supposed to die, but only 5 died, and no one claimed taking a hit or anything. It's possible that mafia stacked alongside one of the town-aligned KPs, but really? Combined with youngminii's previous scumminess, you guys really left that up to chance? X_x. I guess it might not have been brought up but the fact that he was still alive at the end of the game is like whaaa. lol. Day 4 lynches should have been youngminii/Misder ez, except I guess BM screwed that over.
BC/BM: I'm going to describe my interactions with these two... So after BC's slipup, revealing he was BC, he and I started talking/loling about it. We claimed to each other (like who openly claims ninja lol), and shared our information. It was a mutually beneficial relationship of information trading, which helps both of us and is definitely part of his win condition. He checked Artanis that night as a NN, and I told him my suspicions based on my tracking that night.
With Xelin, what happened was, he was tracked to Bill Murray by both myself and Opz. Me being ignorant of the framer/roleblocker being tracked to their targets (the wording was ambiguous! lol. all mafia except gf... it turned out alright so i'm not complaining), I assume Xelin was blue. But when he claimed green, it was like... uhh he must be nosy neighbor then. Later on, we found out about framer/roleblocker, so we knew Xelin was either framer or NN (BB had claimed roleblocked night 1 with no counterclaim). Anyway, night 1, BM had checked Opz, and was thus included into our circle. Basically, 3/4 of us were confirmed town (because Opz and my night results matched up) and Xelin was confirmed as framer/NN. After Pandain flipped ninja, he was 99% confirmed because I had been the one to push Pandain over youngminii, whereas Xelin had wanted to stay on youngminii. tree.hugger flipping framer that night was just a bonus I think.
But anyway, BC didn't know about BM being ninja until after I died (day 3). At that point, he had used one check and one chopstick, so it's a pretty legitimate concern that the town might have lied to him + he would waste his last hit (had I still been alive, I might have lied to BC/BM about who the other ninja was just to get an extra KP out of it, lol). BC checked Misder I think that night, and then BM went crazy on everyone, lol, so then it was obvious. But really, I think both BM+BC played toward their win conditions, BM a little bit more serious/crazily, but nevertheless, they ultimately played toward their win conditions. It just so happened that town was first to contact them, and from there, they became "town-aligned" in a sense.
Brownbear: You played pretty well =P. I can't believe my town circle didn't suspect you. I mean, I suppose there were more obvious mafia out there, but I had you pegged as MH/GF before I died, based on your claim and Pandain's alleged investigation. I totally played dumb PMing you about Xelin, trying to fish, lol. I think you were right to give up, because eventually one of the 3 remaining trackers would have tracked you and been like (O_O). It was a good play early game though, and I think if you had pushed Opz, you would have been able to get a lot more information out of him (he was pretty convinced on you around the time I died).
Mafia: After I died, I ended up guessing 3/5 of you =P. Made me happy because I'm terrible at scumhunting. Infundi was pretty good before the other scum flipped, and BB probably would have lasted the longest.
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Yeah I'm surprised I didn't get lynched, I played like an idiot (although I really was afk a lot).
................Why did we concede? BB could've taken this by himself.
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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
On August 18 2010 15:37 youngminii wrote:
Yeah I'm surprised I didn't get lynched, I played like an idiot (although I really was afk a lot).
................Why did we concede? BB could've taken this by himself.
Two hatter claims. One has a bomb on two Mafia. KF91 comes forth and says, "I have bombs on these two people (being iNfuNdiBuLuM and youngminii)." Town goes, "Ah, we think at least one of them is Mafia, and it's ludicrous that there are two Mad Hatters in a game." For good measure, they lynch youngminii, or force BrownBear to come forth. BrownBear says the same things about bombs, and if he were the real Mad Hatter it'd be highly expected that he'd have one on youngminii, since he was the one that initially bussed youngminii. Either way, town gets to off a suspicious character. Lynch both the 'Hatters', Godfather flips, youngminii and iNfuNdiBuLuM go up in smoke, and the town cheers as all three Mafia are eliminated.
Barring that, ~OpZ~ wanted BrownBear to be lynched anyway since he was a bomber.
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On August 18 2010 11:48 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2010 11:47 Chezinu wrote:On August 18 2010 11:42 Ace wrote:How did KF91 become suspicious of being a fake hatter? Sounds like bad luck for the scum. All their members got figured out v_v I knew KF91 was innocent since bumatlarge thought I was ninja and suggested KF91 as a target for me. Oh, I did assume that there were multiple trackers from pm's early game. Bumatlarge actually helped me assume this since he kept thinking I was the watcher after I told him I would stalk the scribe. It's like he knew there was already a tracker that claimed. Knowing the town didn't need much help from me, I slacked off. I sent that pm to save kf91 to opz and xelin that you sent me actually haha
BrownBear and KF91 were actually the next lynch candidates in me and xelins book. We had KF91's bombs on two mafia we figured, and BrownBear's on another. Little did we know BrownBear was GF (Thought pandain checked him for the longest at any rate).
But we wanted to end the game a day early by using our hatters...Lol
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On August 18 2010 11:57 Amber[LighT] wrote:Nice well played town! Credit is due for LSB's AWESOME PLAN!!! And Xelin for coming through with it after night 1. Opz for being a PIA lol (he knows what he did to me ) I definitely had a lot of fun this game. Glad I got to save two people at least before I died... thanks BM... you're on notice from now on!
PIA?
And actually I'd have to go through my PM's so plz pm me lol
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guessing "pain in the ass"
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On August 18 2010 15:40 flamewheel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2010 15:37 youngminii wrote:
Yeah I'm surprised I didn't get lynched, I played like an idiot (although I really was afk a lot).
................Why did we concede? BB could've taken this by himself. Two hatter claims. One has a bomb on two Mafia. KF91 comes forth and says, "I have bombs on these two people (being iNfuNdiBuLuM and youngminii)." Town goes, "Ah, we think at least one of them is Mafia, and it's ludicrous that there are two Mad Hatters in a game." For good measure, they lynch youngminii, or force BrownBear to come forth. BrownBear says the same things about bombs, and if he were the real Mad Hatter it'd be highly expected that he'd have one on youngminii, since he was the one that initially bussed youngminii. Either way, town gets to off a suspicious character. Lynch both the 'Hatters', Godfather flips, youngminii and iNfuNdiBuLuM go up in smoke, and the town cheers as all three Mafia are eliminated. Barring that, ~OpZ~ wanted BrownBear to be lynched anyway since he was a bomber.
Did BrownBear tell you I intended both of him and KF91 to be lynched tomorrow? Lol.
=D
Told him it was time for him to fulfill his role as hatter. xD
OHhhhhhhhhhhh AMBER's block on rastaban was his choice, but Rastaban was a priority, along with myself....I wanted to change to KF91 to kill the roleblocker that last day...If we had, mafia would of been forced to GG then, because Amber and Hesmyrr could protect continually down to the end.
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What gave me away, besides the tracker tracking me and BC checking me?
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when you said foolishness would kill his teammates as mafia
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On August 18 2010 15:23 flamewheel wrote:
BM.
For fuck's sake.
Stop multi-posting.
Edit: Next time James you're going to be slapped if you play like that again!
No, seriously, it's vaguely okay since your win conditions are grey, but you should have at least checked Bill Murray on Night 3. I know at that point you only had one chopstick after shooting Divinek and it's perfectly okay to say that "you were afraid of losing your last kill since then you'd have to get Bill lynched", and the only reason I okay'ed checking Misder was because you had something about "town circle not trusting you if you didn't."
Edit 2: Completing the cycle with XeliN RNGing back to Bill was lucky. Otherwise, yeah, there would have been much lulziness. Mafia should have been offing claims once they started popping up day 2, especially the tracker claims. You guys should have shot Chezinu for saying that BC's smurf stayed home. Should have shot rastaban because he claimed tracker (or so I remember? Either way, BrownBear had him on the kill list before it got shuffled around a million times), and then keeping the shot on DTA would have netted three dead trackers. Bam, town wasted yet another day trying to complete the plan, a Ninja was lynched, and come Day 3 three dead trackers wash up on the shore.
Edit 3: Then again, it seemed like Chezinu was pretty much afloat in his own sea most of the time anyway. Also I don't know why Roffles or zeks seemed blue, but I'm obviously biased.
Much more to think about and say, but I can't remember it at this point. Ver's got me though, so it's all good :>
You know it's funny my order for protection was:
Xelin
DTA or Xelin
Xelin or Rastaban
Hesmyrr
I was really kicking myself in the ass when I saw that DTA was taken out.
And yes you were a pain in the ass Opz. At this point in the game Xelin told me close to nothing, which I told him was absolutely fine, and then I get this guy (Opz) :
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Original Message:
-_-...Fine...Be ambiguous. You're being unhelpful for the circle. Xelin told me your role claim. Bill said you protected him last night.
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Original Message:
Well I know a couple of people have been throwing my claim around in PM Land. If you think it's for the benefit of the town to out me in the thread go ahead. I would disagree regardless of my role.
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Original Message:
I've done seen a claim from you, so you better make the same claim. I would rather just trust you, than have someone track you JUST to confirm you.
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Original Message:
I'm not claiming anything. I don't know anything about your role or have been contacted by anyone confirming you're identity.
I'm not even in any town circles, so i have no useful info right now
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Original Message:
You claiming green to me?
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Original Message:
What action are you talking about?
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Original Message:
No sir. I've realized a lil while ago. What action did you take last night.
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Original Message:
oh you finally realized I'm playing in this game?
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Original Message:
Your role. Obviously.
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Original Message:
??? about?
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Original Message:
hey...Sry for last pm. We gotta talk home boy.
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lmao at Opz's "interrogation" of Amber. hahahaha o god Opz don't ever be a cop in real life.
Detective Opz: Why did you steal the cookies?
Suspect: I didn't steal the cookies...
*chair goes flying against the wall while Opz eyes' start bulging*
Detective Opz: YOU CLAIMING YOU WEREN'T HUNGRY BOY!??!
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On August 18 2010 14:32 Incognito wrote:Another thing. Town plans. Like last game, this game's town plan was terrible, yet yielded a good result. I'd like to know for certain how Xelin could prove his innocence, but I think its probably something like he got tracked to BM day 1 and BM didn't die so Xelin is either blue/framer/neighbor? And after framer dies hes legit. Either way, the obvious hole in the plan this game was that there was no watcher. This game shows that you can't really make plans based off of assumptions of roles that may or may not exist. Notice what happened here: besides the very lucky scenario that Xelin happened to be a neighbor, town would have accomplished nothing otherwise. Suppose Xelin was a townie (like he thought himself to be.) Town loses a WHOLE DAY of blue night actions. Trackers tracks were useless, when they could have been out trying to find scum. Medics protected one person, which allowed mafia to take a free shot at anyone else in the game (in this instance, Foolishness, who luckily was a veteran). Overall, town would have been set back a day if Xelin wasn't conveniently a neighbor. They would have lost valuable information and time and would just have extra dead townies to show for it. Not much of a plan if you ask me. Reading through day 1 of the thread was hillarious. I was originally going to make a post simply quoting all the posts where people made silly/incorrect assumptions. As I am on vacation and not at home, I don't have time to do this, but I'm pretty confident that I could get pages and pages worth of posts making terrible assumptions. Knowing what you know now as town, just skim through the first 30 pages of posts and you'll see what I'm talking about. This is one thing that wrecks towns. Making assumptions (especially in plans) and acting based on those assumptions, leading to terrible conclusions and valuable wasted time.
1. I hate blue circles.
2. I have passed along my hatred of blue circles to most hosts.
3. It is highly unlikely that the hosts would have allowed a circle via watching/tracking the same person night 1. The mafia have too much trouble breaking that kind of plan.
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On August 18 2010 20:51 Ace wrote:
lmao at Opz's "interrogation" of Amber. hahahaha o god Opz don't ever be a cop in real life.
Detective Opz: Why did you steal the cookies?
Suspect: I didn't steal the cookies...
*chair goes flying against the wall while Opz eyes' start bulging*
Detective Opz: YOU CLAIMING YOU WEREN'T HUNGRY BOY!??!
i just lol'd in real life and spit out my breakfast.
*bowdown*
Sorry you had to die so quickly Ace, you're an insta-target I suppose
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On August 18 2010 20:51 Ace wrote:
lmao at Opz's "interrogation" of Amber. hahahaha o god Opz don't ever be a cop in real life.
Detective Opz: Why did you steal the cookies?
Suspect: I didn't steal the cookies...
*chair goes flying against the wall while Opz eyes' start bulging*
Detective Opz: YOU CLAIMING YOU WEREN'T HUNGRY BOY!??!
I didn't believe one of the med claims.....and I was probably fucked up.
Lol.
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EPT
