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On June 23 2010 12:17 DarthThienAn wrote: rawr teammate! I almost forgot Ace was on my team. =D. L, if you want more information on anything specific, just ask imo. ie. [Your argument] [My response] [Your explanation of how I sidestepped] And believe it or not, I forgot what culpability meant earlier and looking it up didn't help so I completely misinterpreted what you meant until now. By culpability you meant how you were connecting Team 5 to Ace and myself? I addressed that pretty early, didn't I? I thought I said something along the lines of "I agree" (assuming your logic), but also that "I disagree and think YellowInk makes his team stronger than teams XXX" which makes your logic meh-ish? I still think YellowInk's team is not the weakest in the game, and so, even taking into account manual team balancing, he wouldn't necessarily be paired up with Korynne/Radfield, Ace/myself, or you/Caller. Well, I mean, the chances are high because that's 1/3 of the teams, lol, but I could just as easily see another middle-ish team being mafia. ie. teams 2, 3, or, based on your account of meeple, team 7, even.
Don't really need anymore information out of your team. Pretty sure I have a good read on you guys. More worried about the quiet kids for now.
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On June 23 2010 12:26 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2010 12:21 L wrote:On June 23 2010 12:07 Ace wrote:On June 23 2010 11:45 L wrote:On June 23 2010 11:30 Ace wrote:On June 23 2010 11:26 L wrote:On June 23 2010 11:16 Ace wrote:On June 23 2010 11:08 Bill Murray wrote:On June 23 2010 11:06 Ace wrote:
L and BM: an OMGUS vote doesn't mean someone is scum. Newbie townies do it a lot. I agree with you on this depending on the person. L casting an OMGUS makes me view him as town moreso. I do the same thing. It is scummy until I am sure that the person does it as town imo. I'm at a loss in this game, but there is more information flowing around than you would expect zyrre for instance is drawing my fos well yes if someone is always known for revenge voting it may be a null tell but it also means they should probably be at the top of the suspect list. Also it depends on the nature of the vote: If you're doing it while building a case then it's fine. If you do it just because you have nothing else to do and crap reasoning then you come off looking squirmish and guilty. Also there isn't that much information flowing around. A lot of it is people poking holes around to see what people say. Like L claiming my team or Radfield's team must be Mafia because his top target sucks: thats ridiculous logic. I'm not sure if it's obnoxious L being sincere or he's faking it but either way it's dumb. They're not my top target at all. I didn't even post a target. I summarized what was going on in the thread. Yellow/Durak jumped out at me because I read Yellow's previous game and he seemed relatively 'in the game' and active, but his partner is a self admitted zero. Compare that to some of our other teams. We have literally zero teams at that level besides that one, which means that a host would likely have compensated. But seeing as you, durak and YI have all come out swinging against a post which is largely examining a random potential out of a much larger post, I think I got something right. So you accuse people of possibly being scum, they address your argument so therefore something must be fishy? Explain this more. Also you can't assume the host balanced teams. If that's the case then you and Caller would just as likely be Scum if we're going by experience and some level of skill here. It also hinges on the fact that YI/Durak have to flip red. If they don't then your entire argument falls to shambles and we've seen that happen before. If people actually addressed the argument, maybe you'd be right. Darth didn't try to address his culpability; he played up team 5's strength. You didn't address the argument. You dismissed it. Durak didn't address the argument. He launched into a "YOU DONT KNOW ME NUH UH" tirade. Only Yellow really bothered to take the time, and given his post's location after mine it seems like he's more trying to patch up an obviously over-inflammatory push from his ally. And no, silly, Caller/Me aren't 'just as likely' when I talk because I have a PM in my inbox telling me I'm green. What you seem to be forgetting is that I'm not calling YI/Durak/You/Darth scum. I looked at the 3 people being discussed and said: "Wow, that team 5 is pretty weak. They'd probably have needed a strong team to balance them out. If they flip red, the other team is likely one of these two." Does that logic tell me whether or not team 5 is red ab initio? No. If I had a massive day 1 eureka and I knew if a team was red, I wouldn't be summarizing what had happened in the prior 3 pages. I would have been pushing for my own target because I DO THAT ALL THE GODDAM TIME. It draws a link in the case that they are. Seriously horrendous deconstruction of what I've said. The 4 people coming out swinging on a very light suspicion, however, seems to be a bit more credible. Rad/Korynne haven't even bothered talking. If you were worried about scum hunting their silence probably would have jumped out at you. The very odd defensive posture you've taken reminds me far more of your low-key mafia play than your green play. For your team? Given Darth's tone and your posts here, I'd say Red or Blue. We do not know you are green. Everyone is going to claim green. That's irrelevant. I addressed your argument. I said you suspecting the host of balancing teams is a fallacy, especially when the host claimed to use a RNG. If you still do then your entire argument hinges on the host lying right? Your argument was that Yi/Durak are a weak team. If they are red, then the other mafia team must be a strong team. You then say it's up to my team or Radfield's team. I told you that IF you argument was sound then you'd also have to include yourself. The rest of the town has no idea about your alignment and saying "my PM says I'm green" doesn't make it any clearer. This is what I keep bringing up : the LOGIC in your arguments don't add up. Also what does Radfield/Korynne being silent have to do with my stance on them? Them not responding to you doesn't make them scummy. Once again your saying I'm taking an odd defensive stance when all I've done is address why your logic doesn't add up. Seems more to me that you are trying to forcefully characterize my stance on your argument into a position which doesn't exist. Why would I include myself from my own point of view when I know I'm not red? Me being in such a position lets me narrow down the possibilities as much as possible. You can't be certain I'm not lying, but then again that's kinda the entire point of the game, no? If you want to use the logic but don't trust me, feel free to put my name in and take yours out from your analysis' pov. That's kinda how it works. This seriously has to be the most truistic and circular objection to an argument I've ever seen. Why do you consistently waste time on such stupid shit? I can't believe you of all people are accusing someone of circular logic. I'm trying to illustrate to you that saying "I'm green" doesn't remove you from the pool of "strong teams" in your own argument. I know you'll claim green, no shit. I'm telling you it isn't convincing anyone that you aren't scum and repeating it doesn't help either.
Derp, and I'm telling you that's irrelevant because I am not 'anyone'. I'm a person privy to the private information contained in my role pm. Whether or not your believe me is kinda irrelevant to me because its very unlikely given the rolecounts that this'll become the basis of a kill from our team.
In general, however, this has been a fantastic way to make you talk more than you would have otherwise, so thank you for taking part on that fishing expedition.
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rolecount = votecount. My bad, dawg.
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On June 23 2010 12:33 Ace wrote:
no problem. I was planning on talking a lot anyway this game so you don't lead the town to depths of hell like you normally do.
Like in the day vig games wherein town always loses? Glad you've been winning those on townside yourself.
Oh wait, you don't. GGPO
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On June 23 2010 12:35 flamewheel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2010 11:25 YellowInk wrote:
Pregame key encryption should be considered equivilant to PMing and result in modkill. I'm not saying that is what you're doing, but if you have any understanding of cryptography this should be obvious.
Wait, I'm lost. Would you mind explaining this to me?
Pregame I send you a key. Ingame I post messages that'll only be decoded by that key. The information I put into the thread can only be understood by a single person.
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On June 23 2010 12:36 Ace wrote:
Hey I can't stop people from doing what they want. But if you want to argue about who's a better player we both know that won't last long ^_^
Nah, I'd prefer you stop being such a whiny little girl and go scum hunt like a good townie.
Or you could catfight with me. That would be swell too.
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On June 23 2010 12:40 Ace wrote:
I'm scumhunting. I already said I don't believe BM/Chez to be townies. If that's not a blatant accusation along with my matching vote in the thread I don't know what game you're reading.
That isn't scum hunting. That's accusing a team. :3
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Brownbear, sup. The entirety of the post content I made in the post you're replying to is directed at Durak, not you.
The portion directed at you was the paragraph wherein I ask you questions.
Sorry if there's a misunderstanding.
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On June 23 2010 12:46 Ace wrote:
why do I even bother
Mostly you don't.
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So, we aren't team voting, yet all teams have a weight of 3?
How the fuck does voting work, I have no idea what's going on in that other thread and I searched the OP.
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"decided to speak up and prove me right" is a non-nonsensical conclusion. No it isn't. The first post was terrible. This second post was terrible. 100% OMGUS and poorly written OMGUS at that.
summarize everyone’s opinions (incorrectly, at that) when you haven’t been around to ask them. Unless you are a part of a discussion and get everyone’s input, you can’t conclude what the majority’s opinions are. I mean, we hit gems like this.
I can't tell you what happened because I wasn't there at the time? Buddy, its a written game. I read through the entirety of pages 4-9 in one shot, so I had a fresh picture of who was being pushed against and who wasn't.
Reviewing the three pages before your post, I see no reason for you conclude that the town is leaning towards those three groups. You even missed the few posts right before yours that mention team 7. I'm glad you can't read, and I'm glad you learned that larger posts take time to write. Good job!
You make a bunch of claims as to the “town suspects” and then say whoever responds you know who their allies are? Uh, no, I said that I know YOUR team's allies if you die and flip red, which was the entire kernel of that post that we've been talking about for the past two fucking pages.
I'm absolutely dumbfounded. Never before have I seen a post so contrived as a way of 'winning' an argument that doesn't exist. Instead of continuing wasting time with you, I propose the following game for you to play:
Why don't you tell me what roles you think teams 3, 8 and 9 have.
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On June 23 2010 13:48 Caller wrote:
please lynch L he's such a fagtron
Can you do something this game besides being my useless Siamese twin?
Thx Caller :3 <3.
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On June 23 2010 14:18 YellowInk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2010 14:03 L wrote:Reviewing the three pages before your post, I see no reason for you conclude that the town is leaning towards those three groups. You even missed the few posts right before yours that mention team 7. I'm glad you can't read, and I'm glad you learned that larger posts take time to write. Good job! I'mma let you finish, but I just have to say that you used this same argument against me and that was the worst argument of all time. Show nested quote +On June 23 2010 11:45 L wrote:
Only Yellow really bothered to take the time, and given his post's location after mine it seems like he's more trying to patch up an obviously over-inflammatory push from his ally. Yup. I was writing a big post and it fell behind as other people posted quickly rather than the nefarious reasons you insinuated. Now, what do we call it when people hold double standards? If you were looking at this sort of thing from outside where you're sitting, what would you have to say about yourself?
No, when I mentioned you it had nothing to do with the time lag of your post. It had to do with you replying after durak started a shitstorm. You had expressly read what I had written because you would not have otherwise made a post. When writing a large post, if you take an hour to type things up, the previous hour worth of posts might not be included in what you're writing, hence the time lag.
Does my post say anything about yours being time lagged or having taken too much time to write? No. It refered to the fact that your post on the situation was a reaction to the position your ally put you in.
How you could confuse the two evades me.
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I hope you get modkilled.
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On June 24 2010 20:35 Korynne wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 24 2010 12:07 DCLXVI wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2010 11:45 Korynne wrote:
Like honestly, if I was mafia:
1) BM/Chez innocent, team 9 innocent: switching last minute makes no sense whoever dies means the same. If BM/Chez live it's probably better because everyone hates them whereas team 9 looks like they're making a comeback.
2)BM/Chez innocent, team 9 mafia: If I knew team 9 was my mafia buddies then Radfield pushing so hard to get them lynched would've been a really bad idea when so many other people supported lynching Chez/BM or bumcannon. Me voting for them before leaving for dinner not knowing when I'd come back would also be rather ballsy.
DCLXVI, I don't like how you're pushing to lynch us rather than you. So far we have not been under suspicion, and you guys have, not to mention Radfield basically pushed for your lynch all along. I also don't like how you're hinting at the fact that if we get lynched and we turn out green someone that implies that you guys are more green. Well I don't understand why you would prevent a vote switch as a townie or a mafia unless you want to put more suspicion on us (as well as yourself). As I pointed out someone vote switching would only help the town in the long run, and you tried to prevent that? I think I implied that it is likely that we are the same alignment from a town perspective, please point out where I am wrong with that logic. Since I know that I am town and Radfield did nearly kill us, that makes me think that you are mafia and you wanted the town to think that we are the same alignment. Therefore if the town lynches us next and we show up green, then you could look very pro-town. That is why I want you lynched first, since you did the actions that make both of us look scummy. I completely disagree. But I'll let other members like Ace or L chime in on the scumdar factor of that switch. How does vote switching help town in the long run? If you guys are green, town freaks out and goes OMG THE VOTE SWITCHER IS MAFIA and we bicker about that for a day and real mafia can just hide out while we lynch at least one of the switcher and BM/Chez. Right, town thinks we're the same alignment, because Radfield was the one who pushed for your lynch even though Ace is like omg BM/Chez so mafia! We're sooo associated, because if I hadn't switched, oh, BM/Chez would've died anyway. And to top it off, let's just point out to the world just how connected we are by yelling at each other. All I can see here from you is that you found one little thing to poke at and you're going to push it and make it a big deal. No one else has expressed that they think we are associated, nor do I think if you turned up red/green it should reflect on us. If it was any other group I would've done the same. See before now I was voting for you guys mainly because Radfield figures you're scum, and without a strong read on anyone else I was okay with going with his idea (we agreed to vote together). Now I'm thinking you're very scummy. You're trying to get us lynched and clear yourselves. If you are town, how do you know we're not going to turn up red? If you think we look so scummy and you think we're going to turn up red then it reflects poorly on you since you decided to tie us into a bundle. So the only way this idea makes any sense is for you to be mafia. Oh also, what really kicks you in the bum is that you seem to say 1. we're connected 2. it makes us look scummy together. Never once have you said you, team 1, korynne and radfield, looks scummy period. Because you don't think we're scummy, you think that lynching us will clear your scummy name. I've been accusing you of being scum, you've just been trying to lynch us while tying us together. Sorry DCLXVI, but I don't really see how you can talk yourself out of this one.
Sorry, but this entire post is bullshit given that you know that Chez had the opportunity to save himself. This wasn't supposed to stop a 'random vote switcher' from creating chaos. This was to stop Chez from doing the obvious thing and keeping himself alive.
I'm pretty fucking sure Chez voting group 9 wouldn't have raised crazy alarm bells. It wouldn't have created chaos. Chez has a perfect fucking town answer to voting group 9 on day 1 even if they'd have flipped green: He didn't want to fucking die.
Your vote switch, however, did raise alarm bells. Despite having been on the other vote train the entire time, neither you or your partner really bothered to make a decent push against T9 in the thread.
Saying that T9 flipping mafia wouldn't implicate you is off the wall insane.
P.S. Caller you're hilarious :3
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On June 25 2010 02:04 bumatlarge wrote:
L, i thought you said yo prefered T2 dead? Maybe I mistakenly assumed it. if chez switched before the last minute, I think I would have done the same as Korynne based on what I thought. I really dont care whether that statement condemns me or not, I felt was for the good of the town. But maybe you can shed light ona deeper motive for korynne protecting team 9/ killing team 2. If both T1 and T9 are red, that would really make an easy job for thetown to dig them out.
What would you rather T9 dead then T2, assuming no prior knowledge of T2's innoncence.
No.
The 3 teams I had my eye on were teams 3, 8 and 9.
A deeper motive for korynne protecting team 9 as mafia? They're allies and she wanted out. From the town's perspective? Well, derp derp, Korynne was trying to kill them until the very end. Why bother switching if she originally wanted 9 gone? Because someone would 'out' themselves as mafia by vote switching? Well, she specifically mentions that she acted to prevent chez from acting, which means her entire system of logic is built on excuses.
Look at the vote history. There was a huge swing away from team 7 onto 9. 2 only got put into the lead because a far stronger wagon derailed and there wasn't enough time to switch onto 9. That isn't a town 'plan' like korynne's trying to defend.
The move makes literally 0 sense from a town perspective if she thought 9 was a fantastic target.
What's most likely is the following; Korynne is mafia and knows that neither of the teams are mafia. In splitting her/radfields focus she allows herself to distance from the push against an innnocent team, and she can put her almost abstain status vote in a sort of quasi-explained limbo.
What's more? The method of argumentation she uses pre-supposes that 9 is innocent. Well why the fuck did you+radfield push them if you thought they were green?
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Ace even said how could you not see that BM/Chez are more scummy than T9 in response to Radfield. Uh, BM/Chez were never scummy. They spammed a lot but it was pretty obvious they were town. In hindsight do you think that a group would have fake claimed medic as mafia on day 1 under the conditions they did? No.
Secondly the wagon on T9 never really got going. Uh, the 'wagon' on both teams was 15 votes. Chez had another 3 votes he could have used to save himself. How is this even relevant? If the wagon wasn't 100% tied, the change of vote would have been irrelevant.
Also saying Chez had the chance to save himself is ludicrous. Votes were 15/15 with chez on a third party. Ludicrous? rofl. Its not like BM and Chez weren't active in the thread arguing against their scuminess (like you're pretending they weren't), either.
I think the only reason this is a big deal is because BM/Chez flipped town even though lots of people thought they were scum. That's the problem. No one really thought they were scum. Look at the post lynch discussion "oh i got a bad vibe from them, was wrong lol sorry". No one had a strong conviction about it.
Teams 7 8 and 9 voted together against chez bm + you. Then Korynne popped in and prevented 9 from reacting.
Teams 7 and 9 were targeted BY team 2 for lynch. That leaves team 8, you and Korynne as the sore thumbs.
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On June 25 2010 04:26 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2010 03:48 L wrote:Ace even said how could you not see that BM/Chez are more scummy than T9 in response to Radfield. Uh, BM/Chez were never scummy. They spammed a lot but it was pretty obvious they were town. In hindsight do you think that a group would have fake claimed medic as mafia on day 1 under the conditions they did? No. Yes they were. BM spent the entire time of Day 1 pointing multiple fingers at a ton of players. He also elected to talk in code with his partner who was being equally silly. Seriously if those don't scream scum to you it's no wonder why you have a reputation as a terrible player. Then again since you like to accuse multiple people every day I guess you would consider that decent play. Sorry Ace, I actually look at a player's prior play when evaluating them. Chez and BM do that shit all the time as town. I can understand an argument for using the lynch for metagaming purposes, but you're essentially saying "because I've never liked their standard play, they're mafia" which is false. Show nested quote +Secondly the wagon on T9 never really got going. Uh, the 'wagon' on both teams was 15 votes. Chez had another 3 votes he could have used to save himself. How is this even relevant? If the wagon wasn't 100% tied, the change of vote would have been irrelevant. The wagon on T9 was never going to tip. Look at how it formed: We went through 3 teams being on the hot box to toward the end of the Day people voting on T9 because they were quiet - not because they were scum. It was a pressure vote. If you honestly think they were going to be killed then I have no idea what thread you are reading. Oh, It was never going to tip? Then Korynne didn't have to do anything :3. QEDShow nested quote +Also saying Chez had the chance to save himself is ludicrous. Votes were 15/15 with chez on a third party. Ludicrous? rofl. Its not like BM and Chez weren't active in the thread arguing against their scuminess (like you're pretending they weren't), either. If telling everyone "I'm town because I said so" counts as arguing (it doesn't) then sure. They had no shot at convincing anyone they weren't scummy as you clearly see they got lynched. oh, because a tied vote comprising less than 3 normal F11 players apiece means that they weren't convinced? The vast majority of players didn't vote for them and a number of people who voted admitted they did it for reasons other than believing T2 was mafia. QED again.Show nested quote +I think the only reason this is a big deal is because BM/Chez flipped town even though lots of people thought they were scum. That's the problem. No one really thought they were scum. Look at the post lynch discussion "oh i got a bad vibe from them, was wrong lol sorry". No one had a strong conviction about it. Teams 7 8 and 9 voted together against chez bm + you. Then Korynne popped in and prevented 9 from reacting. Teams 7 and 9 were targeted BY team 2 for lynch. That leaves team 8, you and Korynne as the sore thumbs. [ I thought they were scum. "No one really thought they were scum" is a weak premise. If it were true then obviously BM/Chez would still be alive. Do you really think all those people voted them off just because? Then you even say teams 7,8,9,myself and Korynne all had a hand in the lynch. If thats the case then surely some of us really thought they were scum. Also I had to bold the last part to show people how your poor logic works. Team 2 flips innocent. So therefore the people Team 2 "targeted" (which was almost everyone) 7 and 9 somehow get thrown out of the equation and now it's Team 1, myself and 8 sticking out? Do better. Seriously in your conspiracy theories you implicate multiple players without anything to stand on. You pop up after everything goes down to lay the blame on teams while also saying no one really thought they were scum - ignoring how badly BM/Chez played. Like I said you are just as scummy as they were. Do better? Conspiracy theories? We had someone throw a random vote at the end of a huge swing period of voting. How is that not something worth looking at? Being targetted for lynch gives those two teams an emotional reaction for why they would vote the way they did. Team 8, Korynne and you do not have emotional outs. Do I think teams 7,9 are magically innocent? No. Did I say they were? No. But thanks for implying I did!
Oh, and good job on thinking they were scum despite having admitted you had a pre-game grudge against them. Fantastic scumdar there. You're also off when you point the finger at me. If your partner didn't heavily play like he's blue, I'd probably have thought you were mafia. I guess you're just rusty because you haven't played a game in a billion years. Sucks to be bad bro. Step it up.
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Also i'm steppin' out because it is the national holiday which is actually the provincial holiday and there is much beer to be had.
Mafia, feel free to kill me so that it becomes 100% obvious that Ace is terrible.
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EPT
