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Anyways, got a few classes today so I just skimmed through the thread, I'll try to come back in a bit later to jump on whatever bandwagon's built up if it needs an extra vote for the lynch, although hopefully I'll have time later to really read through the last few pages.
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On May 07 2010 06:04 Falcynn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 02:21 Qatol wrote:On May 07 2010 01:59 Radfield wrote:First thing that jumps out at me is if you believe the mafia didn't intentionally pick the same number (on 6 or 8 no less), JeeJee and Darth are not mafia together. That's a good point. JeeJee and Darth are likely not mafia together. JeeJee is less likely overall given the fact that he possibly shares numbers with Sidesprang. It is possible he lied about them. Worth checking the time stamps on all the number claims to see if he was totally in the clear when he posted his numbers. If he was, it gives that defence less credibility. Either Scamp or Darth are good targets. I don't mind lynching either one. Whoever the medic is out there, be sure to roleclaim if you are going to be killed by the town, whether it by lynching, CV or suggested SK hit. As far as I'm concerned, the medic is very very likely pro-town. Unfortunately this quickly lowers the possible people the medic could be, and makes his/her death-by-mafia much more likely. Lets just hope there's a meth-man out there as well to keep the mafia honest. I already checked the time stamps. The people who could have plausibly lied are JeeJee and Falcynn. Scamp technically could have, but he would need serious guts to have done so. That's why I think we are basically stuck with a coin flip between the two unless someone has a strong case to go for one over the other. We can just day vig/CV one of us and lynch the other. Although I'm actually not really sold on JeeJee, I'll try to get back in time to do my own analysis on him. Considering Qatol has struck me as suspicious a few times, I'm not just ready to take his word for it, but if other people share the same sentiment that it's very likely either JeeJee or I are lying then I wouldn't be too opposed to essentially a double lynch.
Umm I'm talking about the people who could have lied about their numbers. Both you and JeeJee are at the end/start of one of the "groups." Both of you also claimed your numbers after the person above you and below you on the list. Therefore, it is possible that you lied about your numbers. Check it out if you wish.
My coin flip was referring to darthienan vs. jeejee. More importantly: you haven't contributed yet. Who do you think we should lynch and why?
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On May 07 2010 05:51 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 05:34 Foolishness wrote:On May 07 2010 05:23 citi.zen wrote:On May 07 2010 05:13 Foolishness wrote:On May 07 2010 04:55 Qatol wrote:On May 07 2010 03:46 Scamp wrote:
The only problem with Korynne being mafia is that Foolishness would have to be mafia too. Remember that compvig was never actually confirmed, though if Radfield is telling the truth then there is one in the game (or we have a very sly mafia Joat).
Now that BM is confirmed inventor, for Korynne to lie about not getting compvig that means that Foolishness did not pick it. If Foolishness did not pick compvig then he would have no reason to lie to us at this point except if he's mafia. What? Why can't we have a mafia Korynne and an innocent Foolishness? Foolishness could have just been innocent and gone against his assignment. He does do somewhat paranoid things from time to time. Like in the speed game, he told me he was in contact with a nonexistent vigilante because he was suspicious of me. Late game, when we needed that vigi to take a shot, it didn't happen and we lost. On May 07 2010 04:24 DarthThienAn wrote:+ Show Spoiler [Qatol's post] +On May 07 2010 01:09 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 01:01 DarthThienAn wrote:On May 06 2010 22:35 citi.zen wrote:On May 06 2010 19:09 Radfield wrote:
I have been shot at and saved by the medic. Good work medic.
Likely scenario:Foolishness kills Jspazz, Mafia shoot at me, SK kills Bill Murray.
If you think about it, BM was a bigger threat to the SK then anyone else in the game. Considering that the only way the SK can get found is either the tracker or BM's inventions.
Interesting claim that you got hit and were protected. There is only one medic in the game (at most). They could be red I suppose, but if they aren't, this would be a very hard claim to fake since someone would know you are lying. So this moves the needle a bit more towards your innocence in my mind. And it certainly means you are NOT the SK - which is nice to know. As far as BM - yes, I think he was a threat to the SK, in particular if he made some invention along the lines of what we suggested. It would provide a 3rd person with a way to find the SK and also kill them (assuming Ace allowed it to work like that). Speaking of finding people - would a townie ever take the godfather role? That and the role-blocker are much stronger in mafia hands. On May 06 2010 15:50 Bill Murray wrote:
good game guys. i was going to not invent anything as if i was a mafia i'd obviously invent something and give it to the mafia. by way of not inventing anything, i was proving to you all i was innocent.
i hope you all win. Wow, the likelihood of us lynching you for this move was decently high... oh well Yup, Bill changed his style, but isn't a better player unfortunately. In particular, when he is town he continues to be a big time liability. If he made no invention, I was going to vote for him 100%, which would be a wasted day. Given he was going to not make anything, it's actually a good thing the reds chose to kill him instead of someone else. Well... it doesn't necessarily mean that he isn't the SK. All it means that the medic actually DID protect him, or else he's taking a risk in assuming that there are no medics left in the game so that he won't get called out. However, to me, he's 99% pro-town. Hobbes and JeeJee seem to know something that no one else knows - either both of them are town, or both of them are mafia? Well... that's not necessarily true, but both of them think the other is of the same alignment at least. 1 could be mafia tricking the other into believe he is innocent using the role that they picked. As for my "fading out", I've been reading pretty relatively regularly... well not "regularly" but frequently I think. I post when I have something to contribute, or have an idea. Plus, stuff happens. We all have lives =p. On May 06 2010 19:25 Radfield wrote:
OK, lets look at some potential suspects. Foolishness certainly gets a pass for now, no reason to worry about him as long as he keeps shooting properly. But, I think it likely the mafia would have had someone put down 1 as there number, so....
Korynne: A lot of theorycrafting early on, but posting less and less as time goes on, barely contributing at all as far as our lynch suspect or compvig hit. She has continually mentioned that killing her off for info is a good idea. She voted 6th on the Sidesprang lynch with very little analysis. We would gain a bit of info from her death(if she's red then foolishness and citizen are almost certainly green) but not much
Korynne, I'm pointing the FoS at you. I don't have a great case, but I'd like to hear you on the record with who you find scummy and why, and who you think we should lynch/compvig today.
Also, I think it very unlikely that Qatol is mafia. Serial Killer maybe, but that goes for anyone at his point, no matter how pro-town they've been. Qatol basically got sidesprang killed by revealing that he went for copycat and missed. I can't think of any good reason for sidesprang's or qatol's actions if they were mafia buddies. I'm not sure the mafia would've put someone down as 1. I mean, we basically had two or three people claiming they were going 1, 1 early right? I know L said that. It seems silly for them to waste their time doesn't it? The only reason I see them doing it, is they are assuming that only one person would pick 1,1, so they want to deny that person getting first pick. Okay without Hobbes/JeeJee as mafia and without anyone who picked 1 as mafia, and I'll take out yourself and radfield you are basically saying the mafia are 3 of these 4: Opz, scamp, zona/citizen, and myself. Is that an accurate assessment of the situation to you? On May 07 2010 01:23 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 00:12 [NyC]HoBbes wrote:
JeeJee, I'm pretty sure I know what you're talking about. It would be nice if I could PM you to be sure, but I think we're on the same page here. In that case, I'm pretty sure you're also town-aligned Well, as far as I'm concerned this takes both Hobbes and JeeJee off the short list. They might both be mafia together, but in that case one will lead us to the other. Qatol, I was re-reading those posts I put up this morning, and I was a little bit confused as to why I put Citizen on that non-mafia list as well. The reason is this though, pretty much everyone on my suspicious list has called out citizen as potential mafia. Citizen style this game also just seems so obviously scummy, (right down to the pointless arguing with you, when you are very obviously in my eyes non-mafia) that I'm inclined to think him a townie. If pressed I would take him off the non-mafia list, but I don't think him all that likely to be scummy. As far as Falcynn, my sole reasoning is that he immediately agreed with my origional post about sidesprang, and the way he worded everything strikes me as town. No one else had agreed with me about Sidesprang yet, and yet he was still the first one aboard. I think a mafia would have been slightly less ok with it. The post I'm referring to: Show nested quote +On May 04 2010 22:52 Falcynn wrote: Show nested quote On May 04 2010 21:08 Radfield wrote: + Show Spoiler +2b Falcynn wishy washily claimed VANILLA without actually doing it Alright, I guess I should clearly state, I'm a vanilla townie. I decided not to make mention of it since . Was preparing for/doing this on Friday/Saturday http://www.filmracing.com/Cities/sanfrancisco.htm and missed the role claims because of it. I'll make a blog of it Thursday night/Friday since we're not allowed to upload our video until after the screening (yeah, this is really more to just get attention for my future blog post then to actually explain myself ) Anyways, as for lynching sidesprang, you're logic seems pretty sound, I guess at this point with all the information that's been gathered, it'd be nice to make sure whether or not everyone at the top of the list has been telling the truth about their roles. If we can get a day vig hit then that might help, although I'm not sure if we'd be able to figure out another lynch target and pile the votes on them in time. It'd suck to essentially waste a day vig hit by not getting the lynch to add to it =/ On May 04 2010 22:52 Falcynn wrote: oh right ##vote sidesprang ## Korynne: I completely understand what you're saying about possibly being burnt out etc. However, I think you're a very clever player. You played your first game as a very active townie, you played your second game as a very active mafia, and being very convincing at that. I'm inclined to think that if you got mafia again in this game, you might play it exactly the way you are. Fake being tired of Mafia as an excuse to post less. Unfortunately for all of us, there's little you can do at this point to remove suspicion from yourself. Anyways, I'm genuinely hoping you're mafia, and that you're burnt out routine is an act, because you seem like a good player to have around. Show nested quote +Who do you think is the strongest candidate for mafia on that list? Cases have been made against JeeJee and Scamp so far. Out of the other players, both Darth and Korynne started out strong, but have really faded due to recent inactivity (which is actually a pretty strong scum tell usually). I don't believe Hobbes was super active at any point in the game? What do you think about OpZ? Korynne is a good target, because I think despite her alignment, she told the truth about being Vanilla. So worst case scenario we kill a vanilla townie who isn't that upset about being killed anyways, but gives us a lead to Foolishness maybe. Best case we get a vanilla mafia. JeeJee and Hobbes should get a pass for today, but if a bunch of other targets turn up innocent, we might have to hit them both. At some point the information they are sharing needs to be made public. If we don't hit a mafia with our lynch or comphit hit today, and the SK hits another townie, we'll need as much info as we can get. If we had to lynch one of them, I'd go with JeeJee I stand by what I said earlier about Scamp, but if we decide to lynch him and he is the medic, then he needs to roleclaim. If no one contradicts him, then we call off the lynch. Keep in mind, the medic is basically a confirmed townie, and pretty much a confirmed non-SK. I can't see why the SK would take medic as a role, though perhaps to deny it from the town, perhaps because it gives him/her a convenient cover. ~opz~: I think Opz threw me off his trail by his vehement defense when I called him out. He just seemed outraged that I was wasting time by putting him on any suspect lists. What made me suspect him was how he tried to sidetrack my Sidesprang argument, but looking at it now makes me think it was just a knee-jerk reaction of seeing his name on a suspect list. I also buy his story of trying for CompVig and failing. Likely Vanilla either way. Personally his posting makes me think he's town. I put him as a second string lynch target for now. DarthTheinAn seems suspect. He made a case against ~opz~ early on. Votes for Jspazz over JeeJee for the CV hit. Try's to give Scamp a pass for being TOO mafia. None of these things necessarily make him a mafia. But his posting in general smacks of mafia to me, I recommend everyone look through his posting. Points out lots of obvious stuff, steers the convo away from certain people, lots of theorycrafting early on, not much talk about voting later on. Darth seems mafia, and seems like he might lead us to other mafia. I vote we lynch DarthTheinAn, If he flops red, then I propose we Compvig Scamp, and ask the SK to hit JeeJee ##Vote DarthTheinAn##I haven't really talked about Zona, but I really don't have much to say about him. He seems fairly legit and is likely working hard on the zbot.... I didn't proofread as I've run out of time and steam. If there's anything I said that doesn't make sense please point it out. Alright. Let me explain myself, hopefully in full. I personally don't buy that something like a third of the players in the game are Vanilla because they "forgot" to PM Ace with their picks or they picked something already picked. THREE people picked Comp Vig, Opz being the lowest one down - he claimed he didn't read the thread before picking which is just dumb to me, and is one of the things that made me suspicious. Well, let's first rewind - the first thing that made me notice him was the fact that picked [4][14], which was coincidentally d3's number. But no one else seemed to care and we were steering away from the draft analysis, so I didn't bring it up again and distract the thread. That's because nobody really had anything to gain by claiming that little quirk. opz had to have picked [4][?]. The second number really isn't that important. Back to his role. Foolishness and Korynne (I'm assuming Foolishness is the CV and Korynne also picked it) I sort of understand picking CV because Foolishness... might have wanted CV (? Don't really know why he went for it) and Korynne picked it as per what the town was discussing iirc. But Opz, I don't really understand at all. There's no reason why you would do that, the same as if there's no reason why anyone would have picked copycat, except for mafia. What's more, as I said when I called him out, is that he claimed going for Comp Vig after Korynne had long been talking about it, which makes it really easy for him to lie, similar to the way some of the numbers people claimed could be lies. He also said this early on: + Show Spoiler [Opz's post] +On May 03 2010 14:42 ~OpZ~ wrote:
It also gives the perfect opportunity for meds to just protect a smaller list of people. Inventor could claim, give someone from the top a veteran kit/bulletproof kit/nightlight to keep away the evil mafia away. Medicas can protect the other ones. We don't know who claimed Role Cop/ Alignment cop/meds...
We don't need the role I tried to pick, so me claiming shouldn't matter. Compulsive vig isn't really an epic role unless you are insanely lucky, or the town is insanely coordinated and good. So we should be good.
Alignment should check near top/Role cop should check near top. perhaps RC number 2, and alignment #1/3
Inventor could likely safely claim and coordinate atleast two protections. Seriously, hand out a vetkit/nightlight, and have a med protect him....If mafia hit a vet/bulletproof/protected target, they lose their nightkill...
Inventor shouldn't hide, and meds should protect him if mafia are likely to hit the top of the list.
Why claim later then? He says he's not going to claim, and later claims CompVigDenied-Vanilla. And, like I said, there was no need for him to roleclaim - there was no possible way it could help the town. We already knew that the CompVig was above Korynne. Unless she was lying, but his word was as good as hers. So claiming only helps the mafia really (unless you are lying to trick the mafia), because town can't really confirm that whether or not you're vanilla, but you're giving the mafia less targets to hit first. So a lot of unprovable "I'm Vanilla townie" things = I read possible scum. + Show Spoiler [His reply to me] +On May 05 2010 08:23 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2010 06:54 DarthThienAn wrote:On May 05 2010 06:30 Radfield wrote:Korynne is a girl folks, or at the very least, has roleclaimed girl  lol. Korynne, that doesn't tell us anything, why'd you roleclaim? On May 05 2010 06:46 Radfield wrote:
In my eyes, it would be very strange for picks 1-5 to take copy cat. They can already take a good role, the only reason to take copy cat would be to deny Qatol a role.
7 and 8 are dead.
Qatol has cleared up his position in his recent novel, I'm inclined to believe him.
For now this leaves Sidesprang(9) and Opz(6). Opz at 6 is on that bubble of not making much sense to pick CC, but he might have. He also claims he went for CompVig, but of course his claim doesn't mean much for now.
Sidesprang, you happen to be at the perfect spot for taking CopyCat.
On another note. I hadn't realized we can vote on the CV hits at night. But of course this makes perfect sense and is what we should be doing.
Opz is also suspicious to me though. He claims he went for CompVig AFTER Korynne already stated that she went for it and failed - not only is that a useless roleclaim, but it's completely un-confirmable, which makes me think he might be lying. Well, you can confirm with a Role Check but that requires the Role Cop to claim, which obviously is not a good idea. His pointing out that going CC is retarded makes that just a little bit more suspicious, trying to cover his tracks and whatnot. He's also been (in general) against most of what the town has been saying, and without much justification, which is scummy to me. Definitely agree with the CV at night deal. I have a question though (read Qatol's post), who are we lynching? He/Rad I think suggested Day Vig'ing sidesprang and then lynching someone else? And what do we do in the case that no one picked Day Vig? Back to reading that essay -_- And when I die, I hope they read your name as the perpetrator who hath slain me. Just because I refuse to led around like a sheep? You go be sheep. I've also defended killing Qatol, which quite a few people jumped on that to say he should die, just based on role claims alone. Eh? Please appear less scummy to the green towny plz Darth. Thank you. Oh, and seriously, go look me up. I've been mafia once? I was silent the entire game. And every game I'm townie, I always say F the towns sheepness. I didn't bother replying with this because, we were moving on to move important things first of all, and his response didn't say anything except "this is how I play, Darth be less scummy plz." He sorta dodged the things I pointed out against him, but, once again, I didn't point this out because by the time I rechecked the thread, it would have been a waste of all of our times to reply. He's still suspicious to me, but you apparently have other concerns, so... No this is a decent argument other than the numbers thing. You really should have brought this up sooner.
Next. My thoughts about Scamp were this: as someone pointed out (Radfield maybe?), Scamp was a bit sporadic in his finger pointing. My argument was that a normal mafia wouldn't do this, imo. Mafia want to throw attention onto other people/things, not attract attention by calling out several people without justification. That's why I said that Scamp might be more town to me. It was just a personal hunch though. If you guys feel strongly about Scamp, go with it.
Those alive:
2. Foolishness - [1] [1]
3. Korynne - [1] [5]
4. Falcynn [1] [7]
5. [NyC]HoBbes - [4] [1]
6. ~OpZ~ - [4] [14]
10. Qatol - [6] [1]
11. JeeJee - [6] [1]
12. DarthThienAn - [8] [1]
15. Radfield - [10] [1]
16. Scamp - [10] [11]
17. Zona - [12] [1]
18. citi.zen - [12] [3]
I think Rad is innocent. I think Qatol is most likely town as well. Zona/citi.zen I haven't really looked at. Scamp I kinda thought was innocent because of his finger pointing. I'm not sure about the [1]'s, but, looking at who we have left, one of the mafia might be among them. If I was mafia, I personally wouldn't have picked [1] except to deny L first pick, but they very well could've. So what I said earlier was just a possibility - the same way that Qatol's groups, though it's very likely that they work out, are not for certain.
I actually have to go now, so I'll post this now and finish up later >_>. Class ~
Out of your statements, you said earlier you are inclined to believe that hobbes and jeejee are the same alignment. Now you just eliminated myself and radfield. I'm just wondering who that leaves. Foolishness/Korynne/Falcynn, opz, scamp, and zona/citi.zen unless hobbes and jeejee are both mafia. And one of the situations which you say is unlikely to be true pretty much must be true. I've been thinking about the medic thing a bit more. You are obviously a decently smart player (protecting Radfield over Bill Murray), so I think we should leave claiming up to you. However, you need to decide whether you want to claim right now. This is because if we put a mafia up on the chopping block, they can just claim medic to out you anyways. Serial Killer may try to do it to save their skin as well. If you do it, the mafia may just crossclaim in order to make us waste a lynch on you anyways (less likely than the other two, but possible, considering the state the game is in). The only way a player does not claim medic when they are on the chopping block is if they are an innocent non-medic. So I propose this idea: we believe a roleclaim of medic for the next 10 hours. This allows the medic to separate himself or herself from those we are actively talking about on the chopping block if necessary. If no roleclaim is forthcoming, we do not believe any future roleclaims of medic. Do not roleclaim unless you deem it absolutely necessary. We don't want to lose you tonight if we can help it. Anyone disagree with this idea? I'm confused. Won't day be well over in 10 hours? If the medic is to claim they should do it before day ends so we have ample time to move votes around. After missing a lynch on the first day I don't think we can afford to do the same thing. I'm also against the idea of the medic claiming in general because they will just die next night. The other medic is already dead (copycat is dead too, although he was mafia), BM is gone so he can't invent anything for protection. Doesn't seem like there's any way for the medic to survive the night if the mafia figure out who it is. Just because Radfield took a hit doesn't mean there's a medic. He could be SK. In fact, I think it's more likely he's SK than there was a medic protection. If he really did take a hit, it makes more sense for him to just say "I took a hit last night" as opposed to "I took a hit, thanks medic". First, he's revealed to the mafia that there is a medic (assuming he's innocent), and second, given the diverse roles available, if he just says "I took a hit" then that still leaves ambiguity in what his role could be. It's possible he was saved by a medic, he could be a veteran, he could be bulletproof, BM could have invented something (although Ace didn't say anything). Also, what's to say there's a medic protecting him and not a Jack? After writing that last paragraph, this is actually quite fishy. Nobody else claimed to take a hit. Maybe he's the SK and chose NOT to hit someone to get credibility. Agreed - the medic claim plan does not make any sense to me. On the Radfield issue - he would be taking a HUGE risk if he were the SK. There would likely be a medic out there knowing he lied. I don't see it. Maybe not. There could be a Jack protection. Given the lack of roles that were obtained in this game, it's very possible there's no other medic. It still doesn't add up. There's no way he could know there was a medic Okay you are totally right. Sorry, I'm still used to 48 hour days. We just don't have time to deal with a medic claim. I don't think that as a SK he would claim to be protected by a medic unless he was holding the role himself. Otherwise, those sorts of things can wind up coming back to bite you pretty badly, especially considering the emphasis we put on people taking that role during the role selection. Regardless, we need to pick someone and start voting. So who is the most suspicious to you and why?
Korynne is most suspicious to me. She was an active part of the community in the beginning, and has since dropped out due to boredom (conveniently right as we killed a mafia too...). That's a pretty standard mafia move, and I think you already mentioned it: being active in the beginning to gain trust then hiding it out.
The biggest reason I'm suspicious of her is because of her "fine just kill me if you don't believe me" attitude, and she has mentioned something along these lines in multiple posts, not just once. I see this defense all the time in real life mafia and it's usually the sign of a mafia member "giving up" so to say. The fact that she admitted to being bored and not wanting to contribute doesn't help either.
And as far as I can see, Hobbes has contributed as much as Amnesia has this game. Having a "fun fun role" as he called it does not justify him sitting around.
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On May 07 2010 06:28 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 05:51 Qatol wrote:On May 07 2010 05:34 Foolishness wrote:On May 07 2010 05:23 citi.zen wrote:On May 07 2010 05:13 Foolishness wrote:On May 07 2010 04:55 Qatol wrote:On May 07 2010 03:46 Scamp wrote:
The only problem with Korynne being mafia is that Foolishness would have to be mafia too. Remember that compvig was never actually confirmed, though if Radfield is telling the truth then there is one in the game (or we have a very sly mafia Joat).
Now that BM is confirmed inventor, for Korynne to lie about not getting compvig that means that Foolishness did not pick it. If Foolishness did not pick compvig then he would have no reason to lie to us at this point except if he's mafia. What? Why can't we have a mafia Korynne and an innocent Foolishness? Foolishness could have just been innocent and gone against his assignment. He does do somewhat paranoid things from time to time. Like in the speed game, he told me he was in contact with a nonexistent vigilante because he was suspicious of me. Late game, when we needed that vigi to take a shot, it didn't happen and we lost. On May 07 2010 04:24 DarthThienAn wrote:+ Show Spoiler [Qatol's post] +On May 07 2010 01:09 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 01:01 DarthThienAn wrote:On May 06 2010 22:35 citi.zen wrote:On May 06 2010 19:09 Radfield wrote:
I have been shot at and saved by the medic. Good work medic.
Likely scenario:Foolishness kills Jspazz, Mafia shoot at me, SK kills Bill Murray.
If you think about it, BM was a bigger threat to the SK then anyone else in the game. Considering that the only way the SK can get found is either the tracker or BM's inventions.
Interesting claim that you got hit and were protected. There is only one medic in the game (at most). They could be red I suppose, but if they aren't, this would be a very hard claim to fake since someone would know you are lying. So this moves the needle a bit more towards your innocence in my mind. And it certainly means you are NOT the SK - which is nice to know. As far as BM - yes, I think he was a threat to the SK, in particular if he made some invention along the lines of what we suggested. It would provide a 3rd person with a way to find the SK and also kill them (assuming Ace allowed it to work like that). Speaking of finding people - would a townie ever take the godfather role? That and the role-blocker are much stronger in mafia hands. On May 06 2010 15:50 Bill Murray wrote:
good game guys. i was going to not invent anything as if i was a mafia i'd obviously invent something and give it to the mafia. by way of not inventing anything, i was proving to you all i was innocent.
i hope you all win. Wow, the likelihood of us lynching you for this move was decently high... oh well Yup, Bill changed his style, but isn't a better player unfortunately. In particular, when he is town he continues to be a big time liability. If he made no invention, I was going to vote for him 100%, which would be a wasted day. Given he was going to not make anything, it's actually a good thing the reds chose to kill him instead of someone else. Well... it doesn't necessarily mean that he isn't the SK. All it means that the medic actually DID protect him, or else he's taking a risk in assuming that there are no medics left in the game so that he won't get called out. However, to me, he's 99% pro-town. Hobbes and JeeJee seem to know something that no one else knows - either both of them are town, or both of them are mafia? Well... that's not necessarily true, but both of them think the other is of the same alignment at least. 1 could be mafia tricking the other into believe he is innocent using the role that they picked. As for my "fading out", I've been reading pretty relatively regularly... well not "regularly" but frequently I think. I post when I have something to contribute, or have an idea. Plus, stuff happens. We all have lives =p. On May 06 2010 19:25 Radfield wrote:
OK, lets look at some potential suspects. Foolishness certainly gets a pass for now, no reason to worry about him as long as he keeps shooting properly. But, I think it likely the mafia would have had someone put down 1 as there number, so....
Korynne: A lot of theorycrafting early on, but posting less and less as time goes on, barely contributing at all as far as our lynch suspect or compvig hit. She has continually mentioned that killing her off for info is a good idea. She voted 6th on the Sidesprang lynch with very little analysis. We would gain a bit of info from her death(if she's red then foolishness and citizen are almost certainly green) but not much
Korynne, I'm pointing the FoS at you. I don't have a great case, but I'd like to hear you on the record with who you find scummy and why, and who you think we should lynch/compvig today.
Also, I think it very unlikely that Qatol is mafia. Serial Killer maybe, but that goes for anyone at his point, no matter how pro-town they've been. Qatol basically got sidesprang killed by revealing that he went for copycat and missed. I can't think of any good reason for sidesprang's or qatol's actions if they were mafia buddies. I'm not sure the mafia would've put someone down as 1. I mean, we basically had two or three people claiming they were going 1, 1 early right? I know L said that. It seems silly for them to waste their time doesn't it? The only reason I see them doing it, is they are assuming that only one person would pick 1,1, so they want to deny that person getting first pick. Okay without Hobbes/JeeJee as mafia and without anyone who picked 1 as mafia, and I'll take out yourself and radfield you are basically saying the mafia are 3 of these 4: Opz, scamp, zona/citizen, and myself. Is that an accurate assessment of the situation to you? On May 07 2010 01:23 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 00:12 [NyC]HoBbes wrote:
JeeJee, I'm pretty sure I know what you're talking about. It would be nice if I could PM you to be sure, but I think we're on the same page here. In that case, I'm pretty sure you're also town-aligned Well, as far as I'm concerned this takes both Hobbes and JeeJee off the short list. They might both be mafia together, but in that case one will lead us to the other. Qatol, I was re-reading those posts I put up this morning, and I was a little bit confused as to why I put Citizen on that non-mafia list as well. The reason is this though, pretty much everyone on my suspicious list has called out citizen as potential mafia. Citizen style this game also just seems so obviously scummy, (right down to the pointless arguing with you, when you are very obviously in my eyes non-mafia) that I'm inclined to think him a townie. If pressed I would take him off the non-mafia list, but I don't think him all that likely to be scummy. As far as Falcynn, my sole reasoning is that he immediately agreed with my origional post about sidesprang, and the way he worded everything strikes me as town. No one else had agreed with me about Sidesprang yet, and yet he was still the first one aboard. I think a mafia would have been slightly less ok with it. The post I'm referring to: Show nested quote +On May 04 2010 22:52 Falcynn wrote: Show nested quote On May 04 2010 21:08 Radfield wrote: + Show Spoiler +2b Falcynn wishy washily claimed VANILLA without actually doing it Alright, I guess I should clearly state, I'm a vanilla townie. I decided not to make mention of it since . Was preparing for/doing this on Friday/Saturday http://www.filmracing.com/Cities/sanfrancisco.htm and missed the role claims because of it. I'll make a blog of it Thursday night/Friday since we're not allowed to upload our video until after the screening (yeah, this is really more to just get attention for my future blog post then to actually explain myself ) Anyways, as for lynching sidesprang, you're logic seems pretty sound, I guess at this point with all the information that's been gathered, it'd be nice to make sure whether or not everyone at the top of the list has been telling the truth about their roles. If we can get a day vig hit then that might help, although I'm not sure if we'd be able to figure out another lynch target and pile the votes on them in time. It'd suck to essentially waste a day vig hit by not getting the lynch to add to it =/ On May 04 2010 22:52 Falcynn wrote: oh right ##vote sidesprang ## Korynne: I completely understand what you're saying about possibly being burnt out etc. However, I think you're a very clever player. You played your first game as a very active townie, you played your second game as a very active mafia, and being very convincing at that. I'm inclined to think that if you got mafia again in this game, you might play it exactly the way you are. Fake being tired of Mafia as an excuse to post less. Unfortunately for all of us, there's little you can do at this point to remove suspicion from yourself. Anyways, I'm genuinely hoping you're mafia, and that you're burnt out routine is an act, because you seem like a good player to have around. Show nested quote +Who do you think is the strongest candidate for mafia on that list? Cases have been made against JeeJee and Scamp so far. Out of the other players, both Darth and Korynne started out strong, but have really faded due to recent inactivity (which is actually a pretty strong scum tell usually). I don't believe Hobbes was super active at any point in the game? What do you think about OpZ? Korynne is a good target, because I think despite her alignment, she told the truth about being Vanilla. So worst case scenario we kill a vanilla townie who isn't that upset about being killed anyways, but gives us a lead to Foolishness maybe. Best case we get a vanilla mafia. JeeJee and Hobbes should get a pass for today, but if a bunch of other targets turn up innocent, we might have to hit them both. At some point the information they are sharing needs to be made public. If we don't hit a mafia with our lynch or comphit hit today, and the SK hits another townie, we'll need as much info as we can get. If we had to lynch one of them, I'd go with JeeJee I stand by what I said earlier about Scamp, but if we decide to lynch him and he is the medic, then he needs to roleclaim. If no one contradicts him, then we call off the lynch. Keep in mind, the medic is basically a confirmed townie, and pretty much a confirmed non-SK. I can't see why the SK would take medic as a role, though perhaps to deny it from the town, perhaps because it gives him/her a convenient cover. ~opz~: I think Opz threw me off his trail by his vehement defense when I called him out. He just seemed outraged that I was wasting time by putting him on any suspect lists. What made me suspect him was how he tried to sidetrack my Sidesprang argument, but looking at it now makes me think it was just a knee-jerk reaction of seeing his name on a suspect list. I also buy his story of trying for CompVig and failing. Likely Vanilla either way. Personally his posting makes me think he's town. I put him as a second string lynch target for now. DarthTheinAn seems suspect. He made a case against ~opz~ early on. Votes for Jspazz over JeeJee for the CV hit. Try's to give Scamp a pass for being TOO mafia. None of these things necessarily make him a mafia. But his posting in general smacks of mafia to me, I recommend everyone look through his posting. Points out lots of obvious stuff, steers the convo away from certain people, lots of theorycrafting early on, not much talk about voting later on. Darth seems mafia, and seems like he might lead us to other mafia. I vote we lynch DarthTheinAn, If he flops red, then I propose we Compvig Scamp, and ask the SK to hit JeeJee ##Vote DarthTheinAn##I haven't really talked about Zona, but I really don't have much to say about him. He seems fairly legit and is likely working hard on the zbot.... I didn't proofread as I've run out of time and steam. If there's anything I said that doesn't make sense please point it out. Alright. Let me explain myself, hopefully in full. I personally don't buy that something like a third of the players in the game are Vanilla because they "forgot" to PM Ace with their picks or they picked something already picked. THREE people picked Comp Vig, Opz being the lowest one down - he claimed he didn't read the thread before picking which is just dumb to me, and is one of the things that made me suspicious. Well, let's first rewind - the first thing that made me notice him was the fact that picked [4][14], which was coincidentally d3's number. But no one else seemed to care and we were steering away from the draft analysis, so I didn't bring it up again and distract the thread. That's because nobody really had anything to gain by claiming that little quirk. opz had to have picked [4][?]. The second number really isn't that important. Back to his role. Foolishness and Korynne (I'm assuming Foolishness is the CV and Korynne also picked it) I sort of understand picking CV because Foolishness... might have wanted CV (? Don't really know why he went for it) and Korynne picked it as per what the town was discussing iirc. But Opz, I don't really understand at all. There's no reason why you would do that, the same as if there's no reason why anyone would have picked copycat, except for mafia. What's more, as I said when I called him out, is that he claimed going for Comp Vig after Korynne had long been talking about it, which makes it really easy for him to lie, similar to the way some of the numbers people claimed could be lies. He also said this early on: + Show Spoiler [Opz's post] +On May 03 2010 14:42 ~OpZ~ wrote:
It also gives the perfect opportunity for meds to just protect a smaller list of people. Inventor could claim, give someone from the top a veteran kit/bulletproof kit/nightlight to keep away the evil mafia away. Medicas can protect the other ones. We don't know who claimed Role Cop/ Alignment cop/meds...
We don't need the role I tried to pick, so me claiming shouldn't matter. Compulsive vig isn't really an epic role unless you are insanely lucky, or the town is insanely coordinated and good. So we should be good.
Alignment should check near top/Role cop should check near top. perhaps RC number 2, and alignment #1/3
Inventor could likely safely claim and coordinate atleast two protections. Seriously, hand out a vetkit/nightlight, and have a med protect him....If mafia hit a vet/bulletproof/protected target, they lose their nightkill...
Inventor shouldn't hide, and meds should protect him if mafia are likely to hit the top of the list.
Why claim later then? He says he's not going to claim, and later claims CompVigDenied-Vanilla. And, like I said, there was no need for him to roleclaim - there was no possible way it could help the town. We already knew that the CompVig was above Korynne. Unless she was lying, but his word was as good as hers. So claiming only helps the mafia really (unless you are lying to trick the mafia), because town can't really confirm that whether or not you're vanilla, but you're giving the mafia less targets to hit first. So a lot of unprovable "I'm Vanilla townie" things = I read possible scum. + Show Spoiler [His reply to me] +On May 05 2010 08:23 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2010 06:54 DarthThienAn wrote:On May 05 2010 06:30 Radfield wrote:Korynne is a girl folks, or at the very least, has roleclaimed girl lol. Korynne, that doesn't tell us anything, why'd you roleclaim? On May 05 2010 06:46 Radfield wrote:
In my eyes, it would be very strange for picks 1-5 to take copy cat. They can already take a good role, the only reason to take copy cat would be to deny Qatol a role.
7 and 8 are dead.
Qatol has cleared up his position in his recent novel, I'm inclined to believe him.
For now this leaves Sidesprang(9) and Opz(6). Opz at 6 is on that bubble of not making much sense to pick CC, but he might have. He also claims he went for CompVig, but of course his claim doesn't mean much for now.
Sidesprang, you happen to be at the perfect spot for taking CopyCat.
On another note. I hadn't realized we can vote on the CV hits at night. But of course this makes perfect sense and is what we should be doing.
Opz is also suspicious to me though. He claims he went for CompVig AFTER Korynne already stated that she went for it and failed - not only is that a useless roleclaim, but it's completely un-confirmable, which makes me think he might be lying. Well, you can confirm with a Role Check but that requires the Role Cop to claim, which obviously is not a good idea. His pointing out that going CC is retarded makes that just a little bit more suspicious, trying to cover his tracks and whatnot. He's also been (in general) against most of what the town has been saying, and without much justification, which is scummy to me. Definitely agree with the CV at night deal. I have a question though (read Qatol's post), who are we lynching? He/Rad I think suggested Day Vig'ing sidesprang and then lynching someone else? And what do we do in the case that no one picked Day Vig? Back to reading that essay -_- And when I die, I hope they read your name as the perpetrator who hath slain me. Just because I refuse to led around like a sheep? You go be sheep. I've also defended killing Qatol, which quite a few people jumped on that to say he should die, just based on role claims alone. Eh? Please appear less scummy to the green towny plz Darth. Thank you. Oh, and seriously, go look me up. I've been mafia once? I was silent the entire game. And every game I'm townie, I always say F the towns sheepness. I didn't bother replying with this because, we were moving on to move important things first of all, and his response didn't say anything except "this is how I play, Darth be less scummy plz." He sorta dodged the things I pointed out against him, but, once again, I didn't point this out because by the time I rechecked the thread, it would have been a waste of all of our times to reply. He's still suspicious to me, but you apparently have other concerns, so... No this is a decent argument other than the numbers thing. You really should have brought this up sooner.
Next. My thoughts about Scamp were this: as someone pointed out (Radfield maybe?), Scamp was a bit sporadic in his finger pointing. My argument was that a normal mafia wouldn't do this, imo. Mafia want to throw attention onto other people/things, not attract attention by calling out several people without justification. That's why I said that Scamp might be more town to me. It was just a personal hunch though. If you guys feel strongly about Scamp, go with it.
Those alive:
2. Foolishness - [1] [1]
3. Korynne - [1] [5]
4. Falcynn [1] [7]
5. [NyC]HoBbes - [4] [1]
6. ~OpZ~ - [4] [14]
10. Qatol - [6] [1]
11. JeeJee - [6] [1]
12. DarthThienAn - [8] [1]
15. Radfield - [10] [1]
16. Scamp - [10] [11]
17. Zona - [12] [1]
18. citi.zen - [12] [3]
I think Rad is innocent. I think Qatol is most likely town as well. Zona/citi.zen I haven't really looked at. Scamp I kinda thought was innocent because of his finger pointing. I'm not sure about the [1]'s, but, looking at who we have left, one of the mafia might be among them. If I was mafia, I personally wouldn't have picked [1] except to deny L first pick, but they very well could've. So what I said earlier was just a possibility - the same way that Qatol's groups, though it's very likely that they work out, are not for certain.
I actually have to go now, so I'll post this now and finish up later >_>. Class ~
Out of your statements, you said earlier you are inclined to believe that hobbes and jeejee are the same alignment. Now you just eliminated myself and radfield. I'm just wondering who that leaves. Foolishness/Korynne/Falcynn, opz, scamp, and zona/citi.zen unless hobbes and jeejee are both mafia. And one of the situations which you say is unlikely to be true pretty much must be true. I've been thinking about the medic thing a bit more. You are obviously a decently smart player (protecting Radfield over Bill Murray), so I think we should leave claiming up to you. However, you need to decide whether you want to claim right now. This is because if we put a mafia up on the chopping block, they can just claim medic to out you anyways. Serial Killer may try to do it to save their skin as well. If you do it, the mafia may just crossclaim in order to make us waste a lynch on you anyways (less likely than the other two, but possible, considering the state the game is in). The only way a player does not claim medic when they are on the chopping block is if they are an innocent non-medic. So I propose this idea: we believe a roleclaim of medic for the next 10 hours. This allows the medic to separate himself or herself from those we are actively talking about on the chopping block if necessary. If no roleclaim is forthcoming, we do not believe any future roleclaims of medic. Do not roleclaim unless you deem it absolutely necessary. We don't want to lose you tonight if we can help it. Anyone disagree with this idea? I'm confused. Won't day be well over in 10 hours? If the medic is to claim they should do it before day ends so we have ample time to move votes around. After missing a lynch on the first day I don't think we can afford to do the same thing. I'm also against the idea of the medic claiming in general because they will just die next night. The other medic is already dead (copycat is dead too, although he was mafia), BM is gone so he can't invent anything for protection. Doesn't seem like there's any way for the medic to survive the night if the mafia figure out who it is. Just because Radfield took a hit doesn't mean there's a medic. He could be SK. In fact, I think it's more likely he's SK than there was a medic protection. If he really did take a hit, it makes more sense for him to just say "I took a hit last night" as opposed to "I took a hit, thanks medic". First, he's revealed to the mafia that there is a medic (assuming he's innocent), and second, given the diverse roles available, if he just says "I took a hit" then that still leaves ambiguity in what his role could be. It's possible he was saved by a medic, he could be a veteran, he could be bulletproof, BM could have invented something (although Ace didn't say anything). Also, what's to say there's a medic protecting him and not a Jack? After writing that last paragraph, this is actually quite fishy. Nobody else claimed to take a hit. Maybe he's the SK and chose NOT to hit someone to get credibility. Agreed - the medic claim plan does not make any sense to me. On the Radfield issue - he would be taking a HUGE risk if he were the SK. There would likely be a medic out there knowing he lied. I don't see it. Maybe not. There could be a Jack protection. Given the lack of roles that were obtained in this game, it's very possible there's no other medic. It still doesn't add up. There's no way he could know there was a medic Okay you are totally right. Sorry, I'm still used to 48 hour days. We just don't have time to deal with a medic claim. I don't think that as a SK he would claim to be protected by a medic unless he was holding the role himself. Otherwise, those sorts of things can wind up coming back to bite you pretty badly, especially considering the emphasis we put on people taking that role during the role selection. Regardless, we need to pick someone and start voting. So who is the most suspicious to you and why? Korynne is most suspicious to me. She was an active part of the community in the beginning, and has since dropped out due to boredom (conveniently right as we killed a mafia too...). That's a pretty standard mafia move, and I think you already mentioned it: being active in the beginning to gain trust then hiding it out. The biggest reason I'm suspicious of her is because of her "fine just kill me if you don't believe me" attitude, and she has mentioned something along these lines in multiple posts, not just once. I see this defense all the time in real life mafia and it's usually the sign of a mafia member "giving up" so to say. The fact that she admitted to being bored and not wanting to contribute doesn't help either. And as far as I can see, Hobbes has contributed as much as Amnesia has this game. Having a "fun fun role" as he called it does not justify him sitting around.
So you think the mafia picked 1? Darth was just mentioning that he did not think that was the case because of L/Bill Murray both claiming to have taken [1][1]. Do you disagree? Why?
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So I guess right now the most suspicious people are uh... well screw it there is a finite number of people let's see how far I get before saying screw it. xD
Falcynn:
Offers himself up for lynching (context: he proposed a plan to determine sanity of cops by lynching a townie)
Says [someone]s logic is pretty sound, so going with the sidesprang lynch, notes that using dayvig would probably be a bad idea unless we definitely have 3 targets (I don't know the context here, but if Falcynn was 3rd on the chopping block and he was mafia with sidesprang then that would look suspicious, otherwise seems reasonable to ask people to make sure we have 3 targets before requesting dayvig hit)
Agrees with OpZ that he has a bad feeling about Radfield, but Radfield is far down the list and what nots...
Says: Holy shit, yay! ^_^ after sidesprang's lynch. Someone else can check this against his previous games to determine if this is a bit too happy/enthusiastic for his usual play.
Advocates more protection/detection from inventor than KP.
Says that he agrees with lynching BM even though that could make him look scummy if BM keeps making random crap.
Conclusion: Plays the role of the heroic sacrificial townie. Goes with the sidesprang lynch by agreeing with town. FoS on Radfield and BM.
Verdict: Slightly suspicious, but will have to gauge against other people to make a final analysis.
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On May 07 2010 04:55 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 03:46 Scamp wrote:
The only problem with Korynne being mafia is that Foolishness would have to be mafia too. Remember that compvig was never actually confirmed, though if Radfield is telling the truth then there is one in the game (or we have a very sly mafia Joat).
Now that BM is confirmed inventor, for Korynne to lie about not getting compvig that means that Foolishness did not pick it. If Foolishness did not pick compvig then he would have no reason to lie to us at this point except if he's mafia. What? Why can't we have a mafia Korynne and an innocent Foolishness? Foolishness could have just been innocent and gone against his assignment. He does do somewhat paranoid things from time to time. Like in the speed game, he told me he was in contact with a nonexistent vigilante because he was suspicious of me. Late game, when we needed that vigi to take a shot, it didn't happen and we lost. Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 04:24 DarthThienAn wrote:+ Show Spoiler [Qatol's post] +On May 07 2010 01:09 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 01:01 DarthThienAn wrote:On May 06 2010 22:35 citi.zen wrote:On May 06 2010 19:09 Radfield wrote:
I have been shot at and saved by the medic. Good work medic.
Likely scenario:Foolishness kills Jspazz, Mafia shoot at me, SK kills Bill Murray.
If you think about it, BM was a bigger threat to the SK then anyone else in the game. Considering that the only way the SK can get found is either the tracker or BM's inventions.
Interesting claim that you got hit and were protected. There is only one medic in the game (at most). They could be red I suppose, but if they aren't, this would be a very hard claim to fake since someone would know you are lying. So this moves the needle a bit more towards your innocence in my mind. And it certainly means you are NOT the SK - which is nice to know. As far as BM - yes, I think he was a threat to the SK, in particular if he made some invention along the lines of what we suggested. It would provide a 3rd person with a way to find the SK and also kill them (assuming Ace allowed it to work like that). Speaking of finding people - would a townie ever take the godfather role? That and the role-blocker are much stronger in mafia hands. On May 06 2010 15:50 Bill Murray wrote:
good game guys. i was going to not invent anything as if i was a mafia i'd obviously invent something and give it to the mafia. by way of not inventing anything, i was proving to you all i was innocent.
i hope you all win. Wow, the likelihood of us lynching you for this move was decently high... oh well Yup, Bill changed his style, but isn't a better player unfortunately. In particular, when he is town he continues to be a big time liability. If he made no invention, I was going to vote for him 100%, which would be a wasted day. Given he was going to not make anything, it's actually a good thing the reds chose to kill him instead of someone else. Well... it doesn't necessarily mean that he isn't the SK. All it means that the medic actually DID protect him, or else he's taking a risk in assuming that there are no medics left in the game so that he won't get called out. However, to me, he's 99% pro-town. Hobbes and JeeJee seem to know something that no one else knows - either both of them are town, or both of them are mafia? Well... that's not necessarily true, but both of them think the other is of the same alignment at least. 1 could be mafia tricking the other into believe he is innocent using the role that they picked. As for my "fading out", I've been reading pretty relatively regularly... well not "regularly" but frequently I think. I post when I have something to contribute, or have an idea. Plus, stuff happens. We all have lives =p. On May 06 2010 19:25 Radfield wrote:
OK, lets look at some potential suspects. Foolishness certainly gets a pass for now, no reason to worry about him as long as he keeps shooting properly. But, I think it likely the mafia would have had someone put down 1 as there number, so....
Korynne: A lot of theorycrafting early on, but posting less and less as time goes on, barely contributing at all as far as our lynch suspect or compvig hit. She has continually mentioned that killing her off for info is a good idea. She voted 6th on the Sidesprang lynch with very little analysis. We would gain a bit of info from her death(if she's red then foolishness and citizen are almost certainly green) but not much
Korynne, I'm pointing the FoS at you. I don't have a great case, but I'd like to hear you on the record with who you find scummy and why, and who you think we should lynch/compvig today.
Also, I think it very unlikely that Qatol is mafia. Serial Killer maybe, but that goes for anyone at his point, no matter how pro-town they've been. Qatol basically got sidesprang killed by revealing that he went for copycat and missed. I can't think of any good reason for sidesprang's or qatol's actions if they were mafia buddies. I'm not sure the mafia would've put someone down as 1. I mean, we basically had two or three people claiming they were going 1, 1 early right? I know L said that. It seems silly for them to waste their time doesn't it? The only reason I see them doing it, is they are assuming that only one person would pick 1,1, so they want to deny that person getting first pick. Okay without Hobbes/JeeJee as mafia and without anyone who picked 1 as mafia, and I'll take out yourself and radfield you are basically saying the mafia are 3 of these 4: Opz, scamp, zona/citizen, and myself. Is that an accurate assessment of the situation to you? On May 07 2010 01:23 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 00:12 [NyC]HoBbes wrote:
JeeJee, I'm pretty sure I know what you're talking about. It would be nice if I could PM you to be sure, but I think we're on the same page here. In that case, I'm pretty sure you're also town-aligned Well, as far as I'm concerned this takes both Hobbes and JeeJee off the short list. They might both be mafia together, but in that case one will lead us to the other. Qatol, I was re-reading those posts I put up this morning, and I was a little bit confused as to why I put Citizen on that non-mafia list as well. The reason is this though, pretty much everyone on my suspicious list has called out citizen as potential mafia. Citizen style this game also just seems so obviously scummy, (right down to the pointless arguing with you, when you are very obviously in my eyes non-mafia) that I'm inclined to think him a townie. If pressed I would take him off the non-mafia list, but I don't think him all that likely to be scummy. As far as Falcynn, my sole reasoning is that he immediately agreed with my origional post about sidesprang, and the way he worded everything strikes me as town. No one else had agreed with me about Sidesprang yet, and yet he was still the first one aboard. I think a mafia would have been slightly less ok with it. The post I'm referring to: Show nested quote +On May 04 2010 22:52 Falcynn wrote: Show nested quote On May 04 2010 21:08 Radfield wrote: + Show Spoiler +2b Falcynn wishy washily claimed VANILLA without actually doing it Alright, I guess I should clearly state, I'm a vanilla townie. I decided not to make mention of it since . Was preparing for/doing this on Friday/Saturday http://www.filmracing.com/Cities/sanfrancisco.htm and missed the role claims because of it. I'll make a blog of it Thursday night/Friday since we're not allowed to upload our video until after the screening (yeah, this is really more to just get attention for my future blog post then to actually explain myself ) Anyways, as for lynching sidesprang, you're logic seems pretty sound, I guess at this point with all the information that's been gathered, it'd be nice to make sure whether or not everyone at the top of the list has been telling the truth about their roles. If we can get a day vig hit then that might help, although I'm not sure if we'd be able to figure out another lynch target and pile the votes on them in time. It'd suck to essentially waste a day vig hit by not getting the lynch to add to it =/ On May 04 2010 22:52 Falcynn wrote: oh right ##vote sidesprang ## Korynne: I completely understand what you're saying about possibly being burnt out etc. However, I think you're a very clever player. You played your first game as a very active townie, you played your second game as a very active mafia, and being very convincing at that. I'm inclined to think that if you got mafia again in this game, you might play it exactly the way you are. Fake being tired of Mafia as an excuse to post less. Unfortunately for all of us, there's little you can do at this point to remove suspicion from yourself. Anyways, I'm genuinely hoping you're mafia, and that you're burnt out routine is an act, because you seem like a good player to have around. Show nested quote +Who do you think is the strongest candidate for mafia on that list? Cases have been made against JeeJee and Scamp so far. Out of the other players, both Darth and Korynne started out strong, but have really faded due to recent inactivity (which is actually a pretty strong scum tell usually). I don't believe Hobbes was super active at any point in the game? What do you think about OpZ? Korynne is a good target, because I think despite her alignment, she told the truth about being Vanilla. So worst case scenario we kill a vanilla townie who isn't that upset about being killed anyways, but gives us a lead to Foolishness maybe. Best case we get a vanilla mafia. JeeJee and Hobbes should get a pass for today, but if a bunch of other targets turn up innocent, we might have to hit them both. At some point the information they are sharing needs to be made public. If we don't hit a mafia with our lynch or comphit hit today, and the SK hits another townie, we'll need as much info as we can get. If we had to lynch one of them, I'd go with JeeJee I stand by what I said earlier about Scamp, but if we decide to lynch him and he is the medic, then he needs to roleclaim. If no one contradicts him, then we call off the lynch. Keep in mind, the medic is basically a confirmed townie, and pretty much a confirmed non-SK. I can't see why the SK would take medic as a role, though perhaps to deny it from the town, perhaps because it gives him/her a convenient cover. ~opz~: I think Opz threw me off his trail by his vehement defense when I called him out. He just seemed outraged that I was wasting time by putting him on any suspect lists. What made me suspect him was how he tried to sidetrack my Sidesprang argument, but looking at it now makes me think it was just a knee-jerk reaction of seeing his name on a suspect list. I also buy his story of trying for CompVig and failing. Likely Vanilla either way. Personally his posting makes me think he's town. I put him as a second string lynch target for now. DarthTheinAn seems suspect. He made a case against ~opz~ early on. Votes for Jspazz over JeeJee for the CV hit. Try's to give Scamp a pass for being TOO mafia. None of these things necessarily make him a mafia. But his posting in general smacks of mafia to me, I recommend everyone look through his posting. Points out lots of obvious stuff, steers the convo away from certain people, lots of theorycrafting early on, not much talk about voting later on. Darth seems mafia, and seems like he might lead us to other mafia. I vote we lynch DarthTheinAn, If he flops red, then I propose we Compvig Scamp, and ask the SK to hit JeeJee ##Vote DarthTheinAn##I haven't really talked about Zona, but I really don't have much to say about him. He seems fairly legit and is likely working hard on the zbot.... I didn't proofread as I've run out of time and steam. If there's anything I said that doesn't make sense please point it out. Alright. Let me explain myself, hopefully in full. I personally don't buy that something like a third of the players in the game are Vanilla because they "forgot" to PM Ace with their picks or they picked something already picked. THREE people picked Comp Vig, Opz being the lowest one down - he claimed he didn't read the thread before picking which is just dumb to me, and is one of the things that made me suspicious. Well, let's first rewind - the first thing that made me notice him was the fact that picked [4][14], which was coincidentally d3's number. But no one else seemed to care and we were steering away from the draft analysis, so I didn't bring it up again and distract the thread. That's because nobody really had anything to gain by claiming that little quirk. opz had to have picked [4][?]. The second number really isn't that important. Show nested quote +Back to his role. Foolishness and Korynne (I'm assuming Foolishness is the CV and Korynne also picked it) I sort of understand picking CV because Foolishness... might have wanted CV (? Don't really know why he went for it) and Korynne picked it as per what the town was discussing iirc. But Opz, I don't really understand at all. There's no reason why you would do that, the same as if there's no reason why anyone would have picked copycat, except for mafia. What's more, as I said when I called him out, is that he claimed going for Comp Vig after Korynne had long been talking about it, which makes it really easy for him to lie, similar to the way some of the numbers people claimed could be lies. He also said this early on: + Show Spoiler [Opz's post] +On May 03 2010 14:42 ~OpZ~ wrote:
It also gives the perfect opportunity for meds to just protect a smaller list of people. Inventor could claim, give someone from the top a veteran kit/bulletproof kit/nightlight to keep away the evil mafia away. Medicas can protect the other ones. We don't know who claimed Role Cop/ Alignment cop/meds...
We don't need the role I tried to pick, so me claiming shouldn't matter. Compulsive vig isn't really an epic role unless you are insanely lucky, or the town is insanely coordinated and good. So we should be good.
Alignment should check near top/Role cop should check near top. perhaps RC number 2, and alignment #1/3
Inventor could likely safely claim and coordinate atleast two protections. Seriously, hand out a vetkit/nightlight, and have a med protect him....If mafia hit a vet/bulletproof/protected target, they lose their nightkill...
Inventor shouldn't hide, and meds should protect him if mafia are likely to hit the top of the list.
Why claim later then? He says he's not going to claim, and later claims CompVigDenied-Vanilla. And, like I said, there was no need for him to roleclaim - there was no possible way it could help the town. We already knew that the CompVig was above Korynne. Unless she was lying, but his word was as good as hers. So claiming only helps the mafia really (unless you are lying to trick the mafia), because town can't really confirm that whether or not you're vanilla, but you're giving the mafia less targets to hit first. So a lot of unprovable "I'm Vanilla townie" things = I read possible scum. + Show Spoiler [His reply to me] +On May 05 2010 08:23 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2010 06:54 DarthThienAn wrote:On May 05 2010 06:30 Radfield wrote:Korynne is a girl folks, or at the very least, has roleclaimed girl lol. Korynne, that doesn't tell us anything, why'd you roleclaim? On May 05 2010 06:46 Radfield wrote:
In my eyes, it would be very strange for picks 1-5 to take copy cat. They can already take a good role, the only reason to take copy cat would be to deny Qatol a role.
7 and 8 are dead.
Qatol has cleared up his position in his recent novel, I'm inclined to believe him.
For now this leaves Sidesprang(9) and Opz(6). Opz at 6 is on that bubble of not making much sense to pick CC, but he might have. He also claims he went for CompVig, but of course his claim doesn't mean much for now.
Sidesprang, you happen to be at the perfect spot for taking CopyCat.
On another note. I hadn't realized we can vote on the CV hits at night. But of course this makes perfect sense and is what we should be doing.
Opz is also suspicious to me though. He claims he went for CompVig AFTER Korynne already stated that she went for it and failed - not only is that a useless roleclaim, but it's completely un-confirmable, which makes me think he might be lying. Well, you can confirm with a Role Check but that requires the Role Cop to claim, which obviously is not a good idea. His pointing out that going CC is retarded makes that just a little bit more suspicious, trying to cover his tracks and whatnot. He's also been (in general) against most of what the town has been saying, and without much justification, which is scummy to me. Definitely agree with the CV at night deal. I have a question though (read Qatol's post), who are we lynching? He/Rad I think suggested Day Vig'ing sidesprang and then lynching someone else? And what do we do in the case that no one picked Day Vig? Back to reading that essay -_- And when I die, I hope they read your name as the perpetrator who hath slain me. Just because I refuse to led around like a sheep? You go be sheep. I've also defended killing Qatol, which quite a few people jumped on that to say he should die, just based on role claims alone. Eh? Please appear less scummy to the green towny plz Darth. Thank you. Oh, and seriously, go look me up. I've been mafia once? I was silent the entire game. And every game I'm townie, I always say F the towns sheepness. I didn't bother replying with this because, we were moving on to move important things first of all, and his response didn't say anything except "this is how I play, Darth be less scummy plz." He sorta dodged the things I pointed out against him, but, once again, I didn't point this out because by the time I rechecked the thread, it would have been a waste of all of our times to reply. He's still suspicious to me, but you apparently have other concerns, so... No this is a decent argument other than the numbers thing. You really should have brought this up sooner. Show nested quote +
Next. My thoughts about Scamp were this: as someone pointed out (Radfield maybe?), Scamp was a bit sporadic in his finger pointing. My argument was that a normal mafia wouldn't do this, imo. Mafia want to throw attention onto other people/things, not attract attention by calling out several people without justification. That's why I said that Scamp might be more town to me. It was just a personal hunch though. If you guys feel strongly about Scamp, go with it.
Those alive:
2. Foolishness - [1] [1]
3. Korynne - [1] [5]
4. Falcynn [1] [7]
5. [NyC]HoBbes - [4] [1]
6. ~OpZ~ - [4] [14]
10. Qatol - [6] [1]
11. JeeJee - [6] [1]
12. DarthThienAn - [8] [1]
15. Radfield - [10] [1]
16. Scamp - [10] [11]
17. Zona - [12] [1]
18. citi.zen - [12] [3]
I think Rad is innocent. I think Qatol is most likely town as well. Zona/citi.zen I haven't really looked at. Scamp I kinda thought was innocent because of his finger pointing. I'm not sure about the [1]'s, but, looking at who we have left, one of the mafia might be among them. If I was mafia, I personally wouldn't have picked [1] except to deny L first pick, but they very well could've. So what I said earlier was just a possibility - the same way that Qatol's groups, though it's very likely that they work out, are not for certain.
I actually have to go now, so I'll post this now and finish up later >_>. Class ~
Out of your statements, you said earlier you are inclined to believe that hobbes and jeejee are the same alignment. Now you just eliminated myself and radfield. I'm just wondering who that leaves. Foolishness/Korynne/Falcynn, opz, scamp, and zona/citi.zen unless hobbes and jeejee are both mafia. And one of the situations which you say is unlikely to be true pretty much must be true. I've been thinking about the medic thing a bit more. You are obviously a decently smart player (protecting Radfield over Bill Murray), so I think we should leave claiming up to you. However, you need to decide whether you want to claim right now. This is because if we put a mafia up on the chopping block, they can just claim medic to out you anyways. Serial Killer may try to do it to save their skin as well. If you do it, the mafia may just crossclaim in order to make us waste a lynch on you anyways (less likely than the other two, but possible, considering the state the game is in). The only way a player does not claim medic when they are on the chopping block is if they are an innocent non-medic. So I propose this idea: we believe a roleclaim of medic for the next 10 hours. This allows the medic to separate himself or herself from those we are actively talking about on the chopping block if necessary. If no roleclaim is forthcoming, we do not believe any future roleclaims of medic. Do not roleclaim unless you deem it absolutely necessary. We don't want to lose you tonight if we can help it. Anyone disagree with this idea?
Yeah I was getting around to my most recent post when I had to rush out - I still think it's highly likely that Hobbes and JeeJee are of the same alignment, whether that be town or mafia.
I'm kinda leaning toward the idea that one of Foolishness, Korynne, Falcynn are mafia.
I already explained why I think Opz is probably mafia.
Scamp I'm not sure of, and the whole idea of a medic claiming would be really troublesome. However, I'm not sure that he's medic - he showed some reluctance to going for the role early on saying that he would get it only if others thought that he REALLY should. If my memory serves, no one really followed up on that, which makes me think he might have gone for a different role.
Once again, Zona and citi.zen I haven't looked at too closely - if I'm right about the first group having one and Opz being mafia, then that leaves one of Scamp/Zona/citi.zen as the last mafia.
The only thing I've noticed about Zona is that he writes not frequently, but he writes really long posts with quality, which is better than spam. He's done a lot of "bringing us down to earth" so to speak, and making sure we consider different angles, much like BM did (if I'm not getting confused with other players). That's about all he's done though, I don't think he's really actively pushed for anything.
citi.zen has been a bit more hostile as you guys have noted. He calls out Foolishness and Korynne with his "preliminary impressions," sticks on the two of them for awhile actually, though Korynne a bit longer than Foolishness. Defends sidesprang - wow I just realized how much he tried to defend / delay sidesprang's death: red flag - and in the end votes for sidesprang giving "information gathering" as his reason, a jump on the bandwagon imo. Then there's battle with Qatol.
I don't know his style. But his defense of sidesprang has just made me suspicious. I think it's definitely worth considering, and I think he might be mafia - that or, based on his animosity toward Korynne, Korynne is mafia. What does everyone think?
+ Show Spoiler [citizen's notable posts] +On May 02 2010 12:33 citi.zen wrote:Preliminary impressions: Zona is town aligned; Quatol seems town aligned but less sure of it (scary if he isn't). Foolishness is extremely shady - his first post is this ad-hominem attack: Show nested quote +On May 02 2010 03:04 Foolishness wrote:On May 01 2010 14:09 Qatol wrote:Okay, fun time. I've been doing some thinking about the game setup and have some thoughts for the town going forward:
The first major item of note is this: + Show Spoiler [Vanilla Scum] +
You are Vanilla Scum!
The ability to kill 1 player per night belongs to you. One of you must PM me a kill for the night even though all 4 of you participate in the kill.
Remember you can coordinate your # picks during the draft phase. The Mafia team this round consists of: Jack, Jill, this bottle and my ecstasy pills!
You win when you outnumber the town, or there is no way for them to stop you from outnumbering them.
This tells us 2 things: 1. The mafia only have 1 KP in a game with 19 players. They also only have 4 members. Why is this important? With all the rolecheck abilities out there, the mafia are unlikely to stand much of a chance unless they get some very powerful roles. 2. The mafia team knew who each other were during the draft phase and were allowed to communicate with each other during said phase. Assuming they talked to each other at all, they did not overlap with each other. These 2 points lead us to a pretty simple conclusion: The mafia made sure they have very low numbers and their numbers were probably consecutive in order to guarantee that they would wind up with powerful role choices. I wouldn't be surprised if they did something like: [3] [1] [4] [1] [5] [1] [6] [1] in order to avoid overlapping with the town as much as possible while still keeping near the top. I think it is unlikely that they bid a [1] [1] or even a [2] [1] just because they were worried the town would also bid those numbers. Bill Murray already claimed he bid [1] [1]. I wouldn't be surprised if this was actually the case. I think L probably bid [2] [1] hoping that people would stack on 1. The people I'm looking at right now are these people in particular: 3. Foolishness 4. Korynne 5. Falcynn I strongly believe that 1 or 2 of them are mafia. They are also likely to go for the roles the mafia will rely upon for the game. Remember that aside from the Copy Cat (which would be a risky role for the mafia to take), if the mafia want a role that gives them additional KP, they are likely to take it with these picks. I'm specifically thinking that the mafia here will be targeting Jack of All Trades, Day Vigilante, and Vengeful Player. Keep these 3 players in mind for later.
I also propose that people announce something: whether or not you moved down and what you bid. Why would you do that and why would it matter? Because it gives us an idea of what range people bid in. Remember, we want to piece together who bid what because the mafia did not stack numbers on top of each other. I realize that the mafia can lie about this, but it really doesn't matter. If they lie about their bidding numbers, then the town has an opportunity to catch them in a lie based on who else bid that number. If someone moved down, they are placed in a group with the people around them. When you find a mafia in that group, it increases the level of trust with the people around you. With this in mind, I would like to announce that I moved down. I bid [6] [1] thinking that the mafia might try for consecutive numbers starting between 2 and 4. That would mean that they would end between 6 and 8. I'm almost positive I overlapped with one of the mafia. This means that we should also be looking very hard at: 10. sidesprang 12. JeeJee I confirmed with Ace that this situation: A - [3] [1] B - [3] [1] C - [5] [1] D - [5] [2] will result in: A and B are ordered randomly, C, D. The second tie does not move you down a second time. This means that anyone who moved down yet is still above me bid at least a 6. Everyone below me moved down AND bid at most a 6. If you bid between 3 and 5 and moved down, it is especially important that you speak up.
Why am I coming forward with this information right now and not after roles are selected? Because I want the town to deny the mafia the most powerful roles or at the very least control their use. We can't stop the mafia from taking roles to increase their KP, but we can still control who gets what role and try to keep the mafia away from the 3 most important ones: Inventor, Compulsive Vigilante, and Role Blocker. Why are these roles especially important? The first 2 provide the mafia with kill power EVERY NIGHT. The third one allows the mafia flexibility to get around this plan. Therefore, I want Bill Murray to take Inventor and L's replacement to take Compulsive Vigilante. Foolishness will take Roleblocker.Bill Murray, you will be making meth bombs (if Ace allows it) or at least bulletproof vests for people every night. The day post will confirm that you followed these directions. This way you cannot give the mafia additional kill power. L's replacement, the town will be directing your shots. We will vote during the day on your hit. Foolishness, you will not be roleblocking anyone. If anyone claims to be roleblocked, we will immediately lynch you. Roleblocks are much stronger for the mafia than they are for the town. I would just as soon nobody get them.
tl;dr:Look hard at these 5:3. Foolishness 4. Korynne 5. Falcynn 10. sidesprang 12. JeeJee Claim your numbers. Revealing this information does not hurt the town but does hurt the mafia.Bill Murray, L's replacement, Foolishness: you have additional instructions. Read them. Did anyone else interpret this post as "waaa I'm upset that I was outsmarted by all these people and ended up low on the draft list waaa"? I indeed picked 1,1, meaning L picked 1,1 assuming BM isn't lying. ...followed a bit later by another post that does not sit well with me: Show nested quote +On May 02 2010 04:55 Foolishness wrote:On May 02 2010 04:25 Qatol wrote:Lots of stuff to comment about: On May 02 2010 03:04 Foolishness wrote:
Did anyone else interpret this post as "waaa I'm upset that I was outsmarted by all these people and ended up low on the draft list waaa"? Thanks for the vote of confidence. You had better pick roleblocker. On May 02 2010 03:50 DarthThienAn wrote:
On another note, are we following Qatol's plan for the first 3? Is there a good argument why we shouldn't? I haven't seen one so far. Let me just say, that I highly doubt you would have posted all this stuff if you had wound up 1-5 on the list. Why do you fail to incriminate yourself in your analysis of what the town should do? On May 01 2010 14:09 Qatol wrote:
tl;dr:
Look hard at these 5:
3. Foolishness
4. Korynne
5. Falcynn
10. sidesprang
12. JeeJee
And it's funny that you're number 11 on the list. According to your analysis, you are just as suspicious as anyone on that list, yet you fail to say so. And can you remind me why you picked 10-12 to "look hard at"? It seems arbitrary and a way to deflect attention off yourself (I may have missed it in your post if you already said so). And why do you neglect BM and L in this list? As far as we know, they both picked 1,1 with me. My guess is you're trying to butter them up so they listen to your plan. We all know how sensitive BM and L are; if you incriminated them they probably wouldn't listen to you at all (and it's kinda funny how BM doesn't want to listen to you anyways). Korynne also seems off to me. He is clearly thinking about the roles a lot, yet makes repeated mistakes in his proposed "pro-town" plans. This could be a new player thing, or someone who is trying to seem active but not paying enough attention to "the other side's view". Together with their number picks (which Foolishness describes as having "outsmarted" others - which implies strategy, not luck) I view them as very fishy. These are first impressions. I am not going to pretend they are strong and will not argue with anyone just yet - don't bother. Onwards and upwards. On May 03 2010 11:54 citi.zen wrote:
##Vote johnnyspazz On May 04 2010 22:33 citi.zen wrote:This possibility is pretty bothersome - we may learn less than advertised by lynching Sidersprang. That said, I would like to hear more from Qatol, he's sort of gone dormant after being very active early on. I really wish Bill would have just made detective kits or something to that effect. Remember Zona's observation about town win rates when the DT is dead/alive. In this case the role-picked DT may not be sane... so a plain vanilla Dt would be hugely helpful. Nothing will give us clearer information right now. Town circles CAN be effective IF there is decent information to provide some minimum amount of trust/information (ie - a detective). Also, town circles can easily be infiltrated with this set of rules and, in this case, they will take way too long to set-up. How exactly was the cell phone supposed to work anyway? Does the "other" person need one too or can you PM anyone? Some other way? On May 04 2010 23:08 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2010 22:48 Radfield wrote:On May 04 2010 22:33 citi.zen wrote:2. Someone who claimed Vanilla is lying: Korynne, Opz or Falcynn This possibility is pretty bothersome - we may learn less than advertised by lynching Sidersprang. That said, I would like to hear more from Qatol, he's sort of gone dormant after being very active early on. More importantly Citizen, Are you going to vote Sidesprang? We learn a lot more with him than anyone else at the moment. If he flips green, we KNOW someone has lied and we have the likely candidates of ~opz~, Qatol and Falcynn. Think about it though, Sidesprang is the perfect distance down to pick CopyCat. Not high enough to get a great role, and just high enough to beat out Qatol. The perfect spot to take that pick if you're mafia and have 4 slots. Yup, at the end of the day some information is better than no information, so lynching him helps more than some other shot in the dark. Too early to have very strong red candidates anyway. Let's do it. ##Vote Sidesprang ## On May 04 2010 23:29 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2010 23:19 Scamp wrote:
Personally, I'm wondering if there's a good reason not to lynch Foolishness right now. Not a bad question - even if he is willing to play along I don't think we will be able to use his kills properly just yet, so he is probably helping the mafia. It would be a great defensive play, but in the end I'd rather try to get some extra info by lynching sidersprang I guess. I would NOT use the day vigilante of sidersprang though. Lynch him and save the day vig hit. No need to rush into this and start killing people left and right on very little information. On May 04 2010 23:47 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2010 23:40 Radfield wrote:On May 04 2010 23:30 JeeJee wrote:now that we know this.. # Bill Murray inventor
# Foolishness comp vig
# Korynne VANILLA
# Falcynn VANILLA
# [NyC]HoBbes ROLE
# ~Opz~ VANILLA
# d3_crescentia MEDIC
# Caller VANILLA
# sidesprang ?
# Qatol VANILLA
let me add a piece of it as well # JeeJee VANILLA i didn't go for copycat so presumably we have some liars up in here either that or hobbes is mafia for the role that he is (or should be), he sure isn't doing shit with it. then again neither is sidesprang so i'm at a loss here so foolishness, who are you gonna hit tonight? Hold on Jeejee, you're claiming VANILLA?? If so, what did you try to pick? Because if you didn't pick copycat, and it would be strange for you to go for CompVig or Inventor, then you must have picked Hobbes' role. Despite my previous posts, I'm not in favor of outing all the roles. But this is too juicy because we can catch one of Jeejee or Hobbes in a lie possibly. If Jeejee claims what he picked, and Hobbes reveals that he doesn't have that role, then one of them is lying, and we just found another mafia(or SK perhaps, either is good). And Jeejee if you claim to have picked Inventor or Compvig, I would find it highly suspicious, given all our plans of taking those two roles first, and you picking 11th. So Jeejee, WHAT ROLE DID YOU TRY FOR??? and Hobbes, IS HE TELLING THE TRUTH??? We can find out some info here folks. Or sidersprang took it and Qatol lied. Or another vanilla role claimant lied. On May 04 2010 23:58 citi.zen wrote:
Ok, we have 4 vanilla role claimants + Hobbes + sidersprang, one of which lied if JeeJee is telling the truth.
We should lynch sidersprang, as discussed. I'd like to keep Qatol around. Hitting Hobbes is risky if he has a good role and is pro-town. Leaving us with Korynne, Falcynn and ~Opz~ to use the compulsive vigilante hit on.
I will vote to compulsive vig hit Korynne out of that group.
And no, I still don't like using he day vig. No reason to speed up the killing on poor information. Let's wait for the lynch flop and save the day vig hit for a time we have more info. On May 05 2010 02:08 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2010 01:30 Radfield wrote:On May 05 2010 01:20 citi.zen wrote:On May 05 2010 01:01 Radfield wrote:
Wow Opz, I thought I was being clear in my posts, but obviously not. Did you skim read? Also, yes I try hard. I'm not sure why people sign-up if they're going to half-ass it.
You keep stating things as if I haven't given a clear reason for each of the things I put forward. I explained why I left Korynne off the list, I specifically said we should NOT use our CV hit on Qatol, I made a good case for Sidesprang which you casually brushed aside because..... well, no reason.
Don't get all defensive about me putting your name out there, try to see why I put it out there. If Sidesprang flops green SOMEONE IS LYING. Surely you agree that we should try to figure out who? The issue JeeJee brought up should be addressed: what if we lynch sidersprang and he turns out pro-town and copycat? Then we have... no leads and a dead medic. Everyone else could be telling the truth, no? If he did that then it was awfully anti-town. Qatol stated he was going for the copy-cat, why would another town player swipe it right before him instead of grabbing another useful role? It doesn't make any sense. But yeah, if he flops town aligned copy-cat that sucks, but he deserves it for screwing over the town plan. I don't care if "deserves it". Every single game there are bad town-aligned players who screw their team over, and it's too many of them to lynch the lot of them. That's just a sad fact. What matters is what are our best options going forward. I like your reasoning a lot, which is why I voted for him. But can we do better? On May 05 2010 05:49 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2010 05:41 Korynne wrote:On May 04 2010 14:42 ~OpZ~ wrote:On May 04 2010 14:13 Korynne wrote:
Hmmm, this further increases my suspicion of BM/Foolishness.
I'm assuming d3 could've died trying to protect one of them.
Well now that mafia copy cat has a nub weak doctor role...
Can someone claim alignment on BM/Foolishness? I guess it's a bad idea to reveal your role so soon though. =\
FoS on BM/Foolishness, but certainly don't want to lynch the wrong one here. =\
[...] You don't think BM had protection if he wasn't mafia? Seriously, mafia hitting BM would of been....Not the smartest idea if he's town. So forget your FoS. It's weak. Extremely shakey. Okay seriously OpZ you need to read, or be more clear. A weak doctor died, which means that he could've tried to protect a mafia and got killed. Seeing as how we're all like PROTECT BM AND FOOLISHNESS, d3 could've died protecting one of them. I'm not implying BM or Foolishness should've died, I'm saying d3 could've died trying to protect one of them if they are mafia. Granted, SK probably killed someone and mafia killed someone but then again one of their kills could've been blocked so who knows... Also citi.zen, why do you vote for killing me out of me OpZ and Falcynn, I have no opposition to you killing me for information (finding out that BM/Foolishness is mafia/compvig) but you didn't state a reasoning. I only have a very weak preference for you. Perhaps we can compvig hit sidersprang and not lynch? Not sure, but I don't want to take too many random shots before the dt(s) if bill agrees to make more kits) have time to perform checks. Before then it's more likely we will kill townies and help the mafia. On May 05 2010 23:14 citi.zen wrote:
Sidersprang wasn't lynched because he was terribly suspect, but because he didn't really reply + we thought we might get more info on other people from lynching him. We got lucky with our lynch, which is great, but remember the mafia KP is the same whatever happens.
For tonight, I still like alignment kits as our invention - the chance of hitting a red by shooting into the crowd are now even lower. Alternatively - what do we think of making some meth-bomb-like item which would not kill all visitors, only the shooter? If enough townies have those the reds eventually kill themselves.
I need to review people's posts relative to Sidersprang.
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On May 07 2010 06:32 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 06:28 Foolishness wrote:On May 07 2010 05:51 Qatol wrote:On May 07 2010 05:34 Foolishness wrote:On May 07 2010 05:23 citi.zen wrote:On May 07 2010 05:13 Foolishness wrote:On May 07 2010 04:55 Qatol wrote:On May 07 2010 03:46 Scamp wrote:
The only problem with Korynne being mafia is that Foolishness would have to be mafia too. Remember that compvig was never actually confirmed, though if Radfield is telling the truth then there is one in the game (or we have a very sly mafia Joat).
Now that BM is confirmed inventor, for Korynne to lie about not getting compvig that means that Foolishness did not pick it. If Foolishness did not pick compvig then he would have no reason to lie to us at this point except if he's mafia. What? Why can't we have a mafia Korynne and an innocent Foolishness? Foolishness could have just been innocent and gone against his assignment. He does do somewhat paranoid things from time to time. Like in the speed game, he told me he was in contact with a nonexistent vigilante because he was suspicious of me. Late game, when we needed that vigi to take a shot, it didn't happen and we lost. On May 07 2010 04:24 DarthThienAn wrote:+ Show Spoiler [Qatol's post] +On May 07 2010 01:09 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 01:01 DarthThienAn wrote:On May 06 2010 22:35 citi.zen wrote:On May 06 2010 19:09 Radfield wrote:
I have been shot at and saved by the medic. Good work medic.
Likely scenario:Foolishness kills Jspazz, Mafia shoot at me, SK kills Bill Murray.
If you think about it, BM was a bigger threat to the SK then anyone else in the game. Considering that the only way the SK can get found is either the tracker or BM's inventions.
Interesting claim that you got hit and were protected. There is only one medic in the game (at most). They could be red I suppose, but if they aren't, this would be a very hard claim to fake since someone would know you are lying. So this moves the needle a bit more towards your innocence in my mind. And it certainly means you are NOT the SK - which is nice to know. As far as BM - yes, I think he was a threat to the SK, in particular if he made some invention along the lines of what we suggested. It would provide a 3rd person with a way to find the SK and also kill them (assuming Ace allowed it to work like that). Speaking of finding people - would a townie ever take the godfather role? That and the role-blocker are much stronger in mafia hands. On May 06 2010 15:50 Bill Murray wrote:
good game guys. i was going to not invent anything as if i was a mafia i'd obviously invent something and give it to the mafia. by way of not inventing anything, i was proving to you all i was innocent.
i hope you all win. Wow, the likelihood of us lynching you for this move was decently high... oh well Yup, Bill changed his style, but isn't a better player unfortunately. In particular, when he is town he continues to be a big time liability. If he made no invention, I was going to vote for him 100%, which would be a wasted day. Given he was going to not make anything, it's actually a good thing the reds chose to kill him instead of someone else. Well... it doesn't necessarily mean that he isn't the SK. All it means that the medic actually DID protect him, or else he's taking a risk in assuming that there are no medics left in the game so that he won't get called out. However, to me, he's 99% pro-town. Hobbes and JeeJee seem to know something that no one else knows - either both of them are town, or both of them are mafia? Well... that's not necessarily true, but both of them think the other is of the same alignment at least. 1 could be mafia tricking the other into believe he is innocent using the role that they picked. As for my "fading out", I've been reading pretty relatively regularly... well not "regularly" but frequently I think. I post when I have something to contribute, or have an idea. Plus, stuff happens. We all have lives =p. On May 06 2010 19:25 Radfield wrote:
OK, lets look at some potential suspects. Foolishness certainly gets a pass for now, no reason to worry about him as long as he keeps shooting properly. But, I think it likely the mafia would have had someone put down 1 as there number, so....
Korynne: A lot of theorycrafting early on, but posting less and less as time goes on, barely contributing at all as far as our lynch suspect or compvig hit. She has continually mentioned that killing her off for info is a good idea. She voted 6th on the Sidesprang lynch with very little analysis. We would gain a bit of info from her death(if she's red then foolishness and citizen are almost certainly green) but not much
Korynne, I'm pointing the FoS at you. I don't have a great case, but I'd like to hear you on the record with who you find scummy and why, and who you think we should lynch/compvig today.
Also, I think it very unlikely that Qatol is mafia. Serial Killer maybe, but that goes for anyone at his point, no matter how pro-town they've been. Qatol basically got sidesprang killed by revealing that he went for copycat and missed. I can't think of any good reason for sidesprang's or qatol's actions if they were mafia buddies. I'm not sure the mafia would've put someone down as 1. I mean, we basically had two or three people claiming they were going 1, 1 early right? I know L said that. It seems silly for them to waste their time doesn't it? The only reason I see them doing it, is they are assuming that only one person would pick 1,1, so they want to deny that person getting first pick. Okay without Hobbes/JeeJee as mafia and without anyone who picked 1 as mafia, and I'll take out yourself and radfield you are basically saying the mafia are 3 of these 4: Opz, scamp, zona/citizen, and myself. Is that an accurate assessment of the situation to you? On May 07 2010 01:23 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 00:12 [NyC]HoBbes wrote:
JeeJee, I'm pretty sure I know what you're talking about. It would be nice if I could PM you to be sure, but I think we're on the same page here. In that case, I'm pretty sure you're also town-aligned Well, as far as I'm concerned this takes both Hobbes and JeeJee off the short list. They might both be mafia together, but in that case one will lead us to the other. Qatol, I was re-reading those posts I put up this morning, and I was a little bit confused as to why I put Citizen on that non-mafia list as well. The reason is this though, pretty much everyone on my suspicious list has called out citizen as potential mafia. Citizen style this game also just seems so obviously scummy, (right down to the pointless arguing with you, when you are very obviously in my eyes non-mafia) that I'm inclined to think him a townie. If pressed I would take him off the non-mafia list, but I don't think him all that likely to be scummy. As far as Falcynn, my sole reasoning is that he immediately agreed with my origional post about sidesprang, and the way he worded everything strikes me as town. No one else had agreed with me about Sidesprang yet, and yet he was still the first one aboard. I think a mafia would have been slightly less ok with it. The post I'm referring to: Show nested quote +On May 04 2010 22:52 Falcynn wrote: Show nested quote On May 04 2010 21:08 Radfield wrote: + Show Spoiler +2b Falcynn wishy washily claimed VANILLA without actually doing it Alright, I guess I should clearly state, I'm a vanilla townie. I decided not to make mention of it since . Was preparing for/doing this on Friday/Saturday http://www.filmracing.com/Cities/sanfrancisco.htm and missed the role claims because of it. I'll make a blog of it Thursday night/Friday since we're not allowed to upload our video until after the screening (yeah, this is really more to just get attention for my future blog post then to actually explain myself ) Anyways, as for lynching sidesprang, you're logic seems pretty sound, I guess at this point with all the information that's been gathered, it'd be nice to make sure whether or not everyone at the top of the list has been telling the truth about their roles. If we can get a day vig hit then that might help, although I'm not sure if we'd be able to figure out another lynch target and pile the votes on them in time. It'd suck to essentially waste a day vig hit by not getting the lynch to add to it =/ On May 04 2010 22:52 Falcynn wrote: oh right ##vote sidesprang ## Korynne: I completely understand what you're saying about possibly being burnt out etc. However, I think you're a very clever player. You played your first game as a very active townie, you played your second game as a very active mafia, and being very convincing at that. I'm inclined to think that if you got mafia again in this game, you might play it exactly the way you are. Fake being tired of Mafia as an excuse to post less. Unfortunately for all of us, there's little you can do at this point to remove suspicion from yourself. Anyways, I'm genuinely hoping you're mafia, and that you're burnt out routine is an act, because you seem like a good player to have around. Show nested quote +Who do you think is the strongest candidate for mafia on that list? Cases have been made against JeeJee and Scamp so far. Out of the other players, both Darth and Korynne started out strong, but have really faded due to recent inactivity (which is actually a pretty strong scum tell usually). I don't believe Hobbes was super active at any point in the game? What do you think about OpZ? Korynne is a good target, because I think despite her alignment, she told the truth about being Vanilla. So worst case scenario we kill a vanilla townie who isn't that upset about being killed anyways, but gives us a lead to Foolishness maybe. Best case we get a vanilla mafia. JeeJee and Hobbes should get a pass for today, but if a bunch of other targets turn up innocent, we might have to hit them both. At some point the information they are sharing needs to be made public. If we don't hit a mafia with our lynch or comphit hit today, and the SK hits another townie, we'll need as much info as we can get. If we had to lynch one of them, I'd go with JeeJee I stand by what I said earlier about Scamp, but if we decide to lynch him and he is the medic, then he needs to roleclaim. If no one contradicts him, then we call off the lynch. Keep in mind, the medic is basically a confirmed townie, and pretty much a confirmed non-SK. I can't see why the SK would take medic as a role, though perhaps to deny it from the town, perhaps because it gives him/her a convenient cover. ~opz~: I think Opz threw me off his trail by his vehement defense when I called him out. He just seemed outraged that I was wasting time by putting him on any suspect lists. What made me suspect him was how he tried to sidetrack my Sidesprang argument, but looking at it now makes me think it was just a knee-jerk reaction of seeing his name on a suspect list. I also buy his story of trying for CompVig and failing. Likely Vanilla either way. Personally his posting makes me think he's town. I put him as a second string lynch target for now. DarthTheinAn seems suspect. He made a case against ~opz~ early on. Votes for Jspazz over JeeJee for the CV hit. Try's to give Scamp a pass for being TOO mafia. None of these things necessarily make him a mafia. But his posting in general smacks of mafia to me, I recommend everyone look through his posting. Points out lots of obvious stuff, steers the convo away from certain people, lots of theorycrafting early on, not much talk about voting later on. Darth seems mafia, and seems like he might lead us to other mafia. I vote we lynch DarthTheinAn, If he flops red, then I propose we Compvig Scamp, and ask the SK to hit JeeJee ##Vote DarthTheinAn##I haven't really talked about Zona, but I really don't have much to say about him. He seems fairly legit and is likely working hard on the zbot.... I didn't proofread as I've run out of time and steam. If there's anything I said that doesn't make sense please point it out. Alright. Let me explain myself, hopefully in full. I personally don't buy that something like a third of the players in the game are Vanilla because they "forgot" to PM Ace with their picks or they picked something already picked. THREE people picked Comp Vig, Opz being the lowest one down - he claimed he didn't read the thread before picking which is just dumb to me, and is one of the things that made me suspicious. Well, let's first rewind - the first thing that made me notice him was the fact that picked [4][14], which was coincidentally d3's number. But no one else seemed to care and we were steering away from the draft analysis, so I didn't bring it up again and distract the thread. That's because nobody really had anything to gain by claiming that little quirk. opz had to have picked [4][?]. The second number really isn't that important. Back to his role. Foolishness and Korynne (I'm assuming Foolishness is the CV and Korynne also picked it) I sort of understand picking CV because Foolishness... might have wanted CV (? Don't really know why he went for it) and Korynne picked it as per what the town was discussing iirc. But Opz, I don't really understand at all. There's no reason why you would do that, the same as if there's no reason why anyone would have picked copycat, except for mafia. What's more, as I said when I called him out, is that he claimed going for Comp Vig after Korynne had long been talking about it, which makes it really easy for him to lie, similar to the way some of the numbers people claimed could be lies. He also said this early on: + Show Spoiler [Opz's post] +On May 03 2010 14:42 ~OpZ~ wrote:
It also gives the perfect opportunity for meds to just protect a smaller list of people. Inventor could claim, give someone from the top a veteran kit/bulletproof kit/nightlight to keep away the evil mafia away. Medicas can protect the other ones. We don't know who claimed Role Cop/ Alignment cop/meds...
We don't need the role I tried to pick, so me claiming shouldn't matter. Compulsive vig isn't really an epic role unless you are insanely lucky, or the town is insanely coordinated and good. So we should be good.
Alignment should check near top/Role cop should check near top. perhaps RC number 2, and alignment #1/3
Inventor could likely safely claim and coordinate atleast two protections. Seriously, hand out a vetkit/nightlight, and have a med protect him....If mafia hit a vet/bulletproof/protected target, they lose their nightkill...
Inventor shouldn't hide, and meds should protect him if mafia are likely to hit the top of the list.
Why claim later then? He says he's not going to claim, and later claims CompVigDenied-Vanilla. And, like I said, there was no need for him to roleclaim - there was no possible way it could help the town. We already knew that the CompVig was above Korynne. Unless she was lying, but his word was as good as hers. So claiming only helps the mafia really (unless you are lying to trick the mafia), because town can't really confirm that whether or not you're vanilla, but you're giving the mafia less targets to hit first. So a lot of unprovable "I'm Vanilla townie" things = I read possible scum. + Show Spoiler [His reply to me] +On May 05 2010 08:23 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2010 06:54 DarthThienAn wrote:On May 05 2010 06:30 Radfield wrote:Korynne is a girl folks, or at the very least, has roleclaimed girl lol. Korynne, that doesn't tell us anything, why'd you roleclaim? On May 05 2010 06:46 Radfield wrote:
In my eyes, it would be very strange for picks 1-5 to take copy cat. They can already take a good role, the only reason to take copy cat would be to deny Qatol a role.
7 and 8 are dead.
Qatol has cleared up his position in his recent novel, I'm inclined to believe him.
For now this leaves Sidesprang(9) and Opz(6). Opz at 6 is on that bubble of not making much sense to pick CC, but he might have. He also claims he went for CompVig, but of course his claim doesn't mean much for now.
Sidesprang, you happen to be at the perfect spot for taking CopyCat.
On another note. I hadn't realized we can vote on the CV hits at night. But of course this makes perfect sense and is what we should be doing.
Opz is also suspicious to me though. He claims he went for CompVig AFTER Korynne already stated that she went for it and failed - not only is that a useless roleclaim, but it's completely un-confirmable, which makes me think he might be lying. Well, you can confirm with a Role Check but that requires the Role Cop to claim, which obviously is not a good idea. His pointing out that going CC is retarded makes that just a little bit more suspicious, trying to cover his tracks and whatnot. He's also been (in general) against most of what the town has been saying, and without much justification, which is scummy to me. Definitely agree with the CV at night deal. I have a question though (read Qatol's post), who are we lynching? He/Rad I think suggested Day Vig'ing sidesprang and then lynching someone else? And what do we do in the case that no one picked Day Vig? Back to reading that essay -_- And when I die, I hope they read your name as the perpetrator who hath slain me. Just because I refuse to led around like a sheep? You go be sheep. I've also defended killing Qatol, which quite a few people jumped on that to say he should die, just based on role claims alone. Eh? Please appear less scummy to the green towny plz Darth. Thank you. Oh, and seriously, go look me up. I've been mafia once? I was silent the entire game. And every game I'm townie, I always say F the towns sheepness. I didn't bother replying with this because, we were moving on to move important things first of all, and his response didn't say anything except "this is how I play, Darth be less scummy plz." He sorta dodged the things I pointed out against him, but, once again, I didn't point this out because by the time I rechecked the thread, it would have been a waste of all of our times to reply. He's still suspicious to me, but you apparently have other concerns, so... No this is a decent argument other than the numbers thing. You really should have brought this up sooner.
Next. My thoughts about Scamp were this: as someone pointed out (Radfield maybe?), Scamp was a bit sporadic in his finger pointing. My argument was that a normal mafia wouldn't do this, imo. Mafia want to throw attention onto other people/things, not attract attention by calling out several people without justification. That's why I said that Scamp might be more town to me. It was just a personal hunch though. If you guys feel strongly about Scamp, go with it.
Those alive:
2. Foolishness - [1] [1]
3. Korynne - [1] [5]
4. Falcynn [1] [7]
5. [NyC]HoBbes - [4] [1]
6. ~OpZ~ - [4] [14]
10. Qatol - [6] [1]
11. JeeJee - [6] [1]
12. DarthThienAn - [8] [1]
15. Radfield - [10] [1]
16. Scamp - [10] [11]
17. Zona - [12] [1]
18. citi.zen - [12] [3]
I think Rad is innocent. I think Qatol is most likely town as well. Zona/citi.zen I haven't really looked at. Scamp I kinda thought was innocent because of his finger pointing. I'm not sure about the [1]'s, but, looking at who we have left, one of the mafia might be among them. If I was mafia, I personally wouldn't have picked [1] except to deny L first pick, but they very well could've. So what I said earlier was just a possibility - the same way that Qatol's groups, though it's very likely that they work out, are not for certain.
I actually have to go now, so I'll post this now and finish up later >_>. Class ~
Out of your statements, you said earlier you are inclined to believe that hobbes and jeejee are the same alignment. Now you just eliminated myself and radfield. I'm just wondering who that leaves. Foolishness/Korynne/Falcynn, opz, scamp, and zona/citi.zen unless hobbes and jeejee are both mafia. And one of the situations which you say is unlikely to be true pretty much must be true. I've been thinking about the medic thing a bit more. You are obviously a decently smart player (protecting Radfield over Bill Murray), so I think we should leave claiming up to you. However, you need to decide whether you want to claim right now. This is because if we put a mafia up on the chopping block, they can just claim medic to out you anyways. Serial Killer may try to do it to save their skin as well. If you do it, the mafia may just crossclaim in order to make us waste a lynch on you anyways (less likely than the other two, but possible, considering the state the game is in). The only way a player does not claim medic when they are on the chopping block is if they are an innocent non-medic. So I propose this idea: we believe a roleclaim of medic for the next 10 hours. This allows the medic to separate himself or herself from those we are actively talking about on the chopping block if necessary. If no roleclaim is forthcoming, we do not believe any future roleclaims of medic. Do not roleclaim unless you deem it absolutely necessary. We don't want to lose you tonight if we can help it. Anyone disagree with this idea? I'm confused. Won't day be well over in 10 hours? If the medic is to claim they should do it before day ends so we have ample time to move votes around. After missing a lynch on the first day I don't think we can afford to do the same thing. I'm also against the idea of the medic claiming in general because they will just die next night. The other medic is already dead (copycat is dead too, although he was mafia), BM is gone so he can't invent anything for protection. Doesn't seem like there's any way for the medic to survive the night if the mafia figure out who it is. Just because Radfield took a hit doesn't mean there's a medic. He could be SK. In fact, I think it's more likely he's SK than there was a medic protection. If he really did take a hit, it makes more sense for him to just say "I took a hit last night" as opposed to "I took a hit, thanks medic". First, he's revealed to the mafia that there is a medic (assuming he's innocent), and second, given the diverse roles available, if he just says "I took a hit" then that still leaves ambiguity in what his role could be. It's possible he was saved by a medic, he could be a veteran, he could be bulletproof, BM could have invented something (although Ace didn't say anything). Also, what's to say there's a medic protecting him and not a Jack? After writing that last paragraph, this is actually quite fishy. Nobody else claimed to take a hit. Maybe he's the SK and chose NOT to hit someone to get credibility. Agreed - the medic claim plan does not make any sense to me. On the Radfield issue - he would be taking a HUGE risk if he were the SK. There would likely be a medic out there knowing he lied. I don't see it. Maybe not. There could be a Jack protection. Given the lack of roles that were obtained in this game, it's very possible there's no other medic. It still doesn't add up. There's no way he could know there was a medic Okay you are totally right. Sorry, I'm still used to 48 hour days. We just don't have time to deal with a medic claim. I don't think that as a SK he would claim to be protected by a medic unless he was holding the role himself. Otherwise, those sorts of things can wind up coming back to bite you pretty badly, especially considering the emphasis we put on people taking that role during the role selection. Regardless, we need to pick someone and start voting. So who is the most suspicious to you and why? Korynne is most suspicious to me. She was an active part of the community in the beginning, and has since dropped out due to boredom (conveniently right as we killed a mafia too...). That's a pretty standard mafia move, and I think you already mentioned it: being active in the beginning to gain trust then hiding it out. The biggest reason I'm suspicious of her is because of her "fine just kill me if you don't believe me" attitude, and she has mentioned something along these lines in multiple posts, not just once. I see this defense all the time in real life mafia and it's usually the sign of a mafia member "giving up" so to say. The fact that she admitted to being bored and not wanting to contribute doesn't help either. And as far as I can see, Hobbes has contributed as much as Amnesia has this game. Having a "fun fun role" as he called it does not justify him sitting around. So you think the mafia picked 1? Darth was just mentioning that he did not think that was the case because of L/Bill Murray both claiming to have taken [1][1]. Do you disagree? Why?
To clarify, I find it unlikely - but am open to the idea if anyone can explain to me why the mafia would do so EXCEPT to deny someone the unique [1][1]. That or explain why that denying is enough incentive for them to go [1][1]. Like Radfield said, we all have to be careful of accepting things as fact when it's more of a, "likely possibility." Even I'm guilty of that, trying to correct myself now ><
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citi.zen
Thinks Zona is town, and less sure but thinks Qatol is town too.
Thinks Foolishness and Korynne are shifty.
In defence of what citi.zen says about:
He is clearly thinking about the roles a lot, yet makes repeated mistakes in his proposed "pro-town" plans. This could be a new player thing, or someone who is trying to seem active but not paying enough attention to "the other side's view".
If you read my last two games I always try to think about the other side. I think I got carried away with like omg qatol has an awesome plan let's add to it. This game clearly has more "vets" (Qatol seems like one of them) than the other games I've played so purposely slipping up here seems like a bad idea on my part.
Stuff about BM's invention and town circles etc etc
Proposes an alignment and not role detective kit.
Replies to Radfield asking him if he will lynch sidesprang with yes, information is better than no information.
Proposes saving the dayvig kill.
Apparently [continues] "to like Korynne as a red" xD
4 vanilla claimants and one must be lying if JeeJee is telling the truth (sidesprang ended up being the guy lying here)
Still voting for hitting Korynne... xD
Again, no dayvig plz.
Points out johnnyspazz missed him in the voted for sidesprang count.
Buncha stuff about invention stuffs...
Argues with Qatol about invention stuffs...
Likes JeeJee's play.
Basically back and forth with Qatol, accusing Korynne in between. xD
Conclusion: Likes to accuse me a lot, but I can see how I've been playing not so well this game. xD Doesn't seem to give /too/ much information on why I should be lynched, just slightly prefered and FoS on me and Foolishness from the start.
Verdict: Slightly suspicious. I don't like the focus on inventions and quibbling with Qatol, seems like fake activity almost.
Also Darth that is poor reasoning.
I don't know his style. But his defense of sidesprang has just made me suspicious. I think it's definitely worth considering, and I think he might be mafia - that or, based on his animosity toward Korynne, Korynne is mafia. What does everyone think?
Animosity towards another player when you are town does not indicate whether someone is mafia. I agree I've played rather poorly this game in terms of being lazy and not thinking enough about the plan but that doesn't make me mafia if citi.zen is town. Likewise if you lynch me and I'm town, that doesn't automatically make citi.zen mafia. If one of us flips red, you can consider the other more green/be suspicious by reverse psychology since mafia would know whether the other person was green. But two people pointing fingers at each other doesn't really mean much if the first one killed ends up green.
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Okay...sorry...haven't been on in a few days at all. I'm about to reread the thread when I get home. Today was my final day, and I was doing two papers last night.
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Hobbes:
Most notably claims he has a fun, fun role (Which JeeJee somewhat confirmed)
Agrees that inventor and compvig should be monitored by town
Sad about noone voting day 1, votes for johnnyspazz due to different play than previous game
Says that anyone taking copycat and town aligned would be stupid and no help, so agrees with lynching sidesprang
Makes a shifty compvig+weakdoctor plan that didn't work
Is now away catching up on sleep.
Conclusion: Really inactive, basically bandwagony, nothing exciting really. He didn't post much in the other game he was townie either.
Verdict: Not very suspicious. Would like it if Hobbes contributed more though.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On May 07 2010 06:32 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 06:28 Foolishness wrote:On May 07 2010 05:51 Qatol wrote:On May 07 2010 05:34 Foolishness wrote:On May 07 2010 05:23 citi.zen wrote:On May 07 2010 05:13 Foolishness wrote:On May 07 2010 04:55 Qatol wrote:On May 07 2010 03:46 Scamp wrote:
The only problem with Korynne being mafia is that Foolishness would have to be mafia too. Remember that compvig was never actually confirmed, though if Radfield is telling the truth then there is one in the game (or we have a very sly mafia Joat).
Now that BM is confirmed inventor, for Korynne to lie about not getting compvig that means that Foolishness did not pick it. If Foolishness did not pick compvig then he would have no reason to lie to us at this point except if he's mafia. What? Why can't we have a mafia Korynne and an innocent Foolishness? Foolishness could have just been innocent and gone against his assignment. He does do somewhat paranoid things from time to time. Like in the speed game, he told me he was in contact with a nonexistent vigilante because he was suspicious of me. Late game, when we needed that vigi to take a shot, it didn't happen and we lost. On May 07 2010 04:24 DarthThienAn wrote:+ Show Spoiler [Qatol's post] +On May 07 2010 01:09 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 01:01 DarthThienAn wrote:On May 06 2010 22:35 citi.zen wrote:On May 06 2010 19:09 Radfield wrote:
I have been shot at and saved by the medic. Good work medic.
Likely scenario:Foolishness kills Jspazz, Mafia shoot at me, SK kills Bill Murray.
If you think about it, BM was a bigger threat to the SK then anyone else in the game. Considering that the only way the SK can get found is either the tracker or BM's inventions.
Interesting claim that you got hit and were protected. There is only one medic in the game (at most). They could be red I suppose, but if they aren't, this would be a very hard claim to fake since someone would know you are lying. So this moves the needle a bit more towards your innocence in my mind. And it certainly means you are NOT the SK - which is nice to know. As far as BM - yes, I think he was a threat to the SK, in particular if he made some invention along the lines of what we suggested. It would provide a 3rd person with a way to find the SK and also kill them (assuming Ace allowed it to work like that). Speaking of finding people - would a townie ever take the godfather role? That and the role-blocker are much stronger in mafia hands. On May 06 2010 15:50 Bill Murray wrote:
good game guys. i was going to not invent anything as if i was a mafia i'd obviously invent something and give it to the mafia. by way of not inventing anything, i was proving to you all i was innocent.
i hope you all win. Wow, the likelihood of us lynching you for this move was decently high... oh well Yup, Bill changed his style, but isn't a better player unfortunately. In particular, when he is town he continues to be a big time liability. If he made no invention, I was going to vote for him 100%, which would be a wasted day. Given he was going to not make anything, it's actually a good thing the reds chose to kill him instead of someone else. Well... it doesn't necessarily mean that he isn't the SK. All it means that the medic actually DID protect him, or else he's taking a risk in assuming that there are no medics left in the game so that he won't get called out. However, to me, he's 99% pro-town. Hobbes and JeeJee seem to know something that no one else knows - either both of them are town, or both of them are mafia? Well... that's not necessarily true, but both of them think the other is of the same alignment at least. 1 could be mafia tricking the other into believe he is innocent using the role that they picked. As for my "fading out", I've been reading pretty relatively regularly... well not "regularly" but frequently I think. I post when I have something to contribute, or have an idea. Plus, stuff happens. We all have lives =p. On May 06 2010 19:25 Radfield wrote:
OK, lets look at some potential suspects. Foolishness certainly gets a pass for now, no reason to worry about him as long as he keeps shooting properly. But, I think it likely the mafia would have had someone put down 1 as there number, so....
Korynne: A lot of theorycrafting early on, but posting less and less as time goes on, barely contributing at all as far as our lynch suspect or compvig hit. She has continually mentioned that killing her off for info is a good idea. She voted 6th on the Sidesprang lynch with very little analysis. We would gain a bit of info from her death(if she's red then foolishness and citizen are almost certainly green) but not much
Korynne, I'm pointing the FoS at you. I don't have a great case, but I'd like to hear you on the record with who you find scummy and why, and who you think we should lynch/compvig today.
Also, I think it very unlikely that Qatol is mafia. Serial Killer maybe, but that goes for anyone at his point, no matter how pro-town they've been. Qatol basically got sidesprang killed by revealing that he went for copycat and missed. I can't think of any good reason for sidesprang's or qatol's actions if they were mafia buddies. I'm not sure the mafia would've put someone down as 1. I mean, we basically had two or three people claiming they were going 1, 1 early right? I know L said that. It seems silly for them to waste their time doesn't it? The only reason I see them doing it, is they are assuming that only one person would pick 1,1, so they want to deny that person getting first pick. Okay without Hobbes/JeeJee as mafia and without anyone who picked 1 as mafia, and I'll take out yourself and radfield you are basically saying the mafia are 3 of these 4: Opz, scamp, zona/citizen, and myself. Is that an accurate assessment of the situation to you? On May 07 2010 01:23 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 00:12 [NyC]HoBbes wrote:
JeeJee, I'm pretty sure I know what you're talking about. It would be nice if I could PM you to be sure, but I think we're on the same page here. In that case, I'm pretty sure you're also town-aligned Well, as far as I'm concerned this takes both Hobbes and JeeJee off the short list. They might both be mafia together, but in that case one will lead us to the other. Qatol, I was re-reading those posts I put up this morning, and I was a little bit confused as to why I put Citizen on that non-mafia list as well. The reason is this though, pretty much everyone on my suspicious list has called out citizen as potential mafia. Citizen style this game also just seems so obviously scummy, (right down to the pointless arguing with you, when you are very obviously in my eyes non-mafia) that I'm inclined to think him a townie. If pressed I would take him off the non-mafia list, but I don't think him all that likely to be scummy. As far as Falcynn, my sole reasoning is that he immediately agreed with my origional post about sidesprang, and the way he worded everything strikes me as town. No one else had agreed with me about Sidesprang yet, and yet he was still the first one aboard. I think a mafia would have been slightly less ok with it. The post I'm referring to: Show nested quote +On May 04 2010 22:52 Falcynn wrote: Show nested quote On May 04 2010 21:08 Radfield wrote: + Show Spoiler +2b Falcynn wishy washily claimed VANILLA without actually doing it Alright, I guess I should clearly state, I'm a vanilla townie. I decided not to make mention of it since . Was preparing for/doing this on Friday/Saturday http://www.filmracing.com/Cities/sanfrancisco.htm and missed the role claims because of it. I'll make a blog of it Thursday night/Friday since we're not allowed to upload our video until after the screening (yeah, this is really more to just get attention for my future blog post then to actually explain myself ) Anyways, as for lynching sidesprang, you're logic seems pretty sound, I guess at this point with all the information that's been gathered, it'd be nice to make sure whether or not everyone at the top of the list has been telling the truth about their roles. If we can get a day vig hit then that might help, although I'm not sure if we'd be able to figure out another lynch target and pile the votes on them in time. It'd suck to essentially waste a day vig hit by not getting the lynch to add to it =/ On May 04 2010 22:52 Falcynn wrote: oh right ##vote sidesprang ## Korynne: I completely understand what you're saying about possibly being burnt out etc. However, I think you're a very clever player. You played your first game as a very active townie, you played your second game as a very active mafia, and being very convincing at that. I'm inclined to think that if you got mafia again in this game, you might play it exactly the way you are. Fake being tired of Mafia as an excuse to post less. Unfortunately for all of us, there's little you can do at this point to remove suspicion from yourself. Anyways, I'm genuinely hoping you're mafia, and that you're burnt out routine is an act, because you seem like a good player to have around. Show nested quote +Who do you think is the strongest candidate for mafia on that list? Cases have been made against JeeJee and Scamp so far. Out of the other players, both Darth and Korynne started out strong, but have really faded due to recent inactivity (which is actually a pretty strong scum tell usually). I don't believe Hobbes was super active at any point in the game? What do you think about OpZ? Korynne is a good target, because I think despite her alignment, she told the truth about being Vanilla. So worst case scenario we kill a vanilla townie who isn't that upset about being killed anyways, but gives us a lead to Foolishness maybe. Best case we get a vanilla mafia. JeeJee and Hobbes should get a pass for today, but if a bunch of other targets turn up innocent, we might have to hit them both. At some point the information they are sharing needs to be made public. If we don't hit a mafia with our lynch or comphit hit today, and the SK hits another townie, we'll need as much info as we can get. If we had to lynch one of them, I'd go with JeeJee I stand by what I said earlier about Scamp, but if we decide to lynch him and he is the medic, then he needs to roleclaim. If no one contradicts him, then we call off the lynch. Keep in mind, the medic is basically a confirmed townie, and pretty much a confirmed non-SK. I can't see why the SK would take medic as a role, though perhaps to deny it from the town, perhaps because it gives him/her a convenient cover. ~opz~: I think Opz threw me off his trail by his vehement defense when I called him out. He just seemed outraged that I was wasting time by putting him on any suspect lists. What made me suspect him was how he tried to sidetrack my Sidesprang argument, but looking at it now makes me think it was just a knee-jerk reaction of seeing his name on a suspect list. I also buy his story of trying for CompVig and failing. Likely Vanilla either way. Personally his posting makes me think he's town. I put him as a second string lynch target for now. DarthTheinAn seems suspect. He made a case against ~opz~ early on. Votes for Jspazz over JeeJee for the CV hit. Try's to give Scamp a pass for being TOO mafia. None of these things necessarily make him a mafia. But his posting in general smacks of mafia to me, I recommend everyone look through his posting. Points out lots of obvious stuff, steers the convo away from certain people, lots of theorycrafting early on, not much talk about voting later on. Darth seems mafia, and seems like he might lead us to other mafia. I vote we lynch DarthTheinAn, If he flops red, then I propose we Compvig Scamp, and ask the SK to hit JeeJee ##Vote DarthTheinAn##I haven't really talked about Zona, but I really don't have much to say about him. He seems fairly legit and is likely working hard on the zbot.... I didn't proofread as I've run out of time and steam. If there's anything I said that doesn't make sense please point it out. Alright. Let me explain myself, hopefully in full. I personally don't buy that something like a third of the players in the game are Vanilla because they "forgot" to PM Ace with their picks or they picked something already picked. THREE people picked Comp Vig, Opz being the lowest one down - he claimed he didn't read the thread before picking which is just dumb to me, and is one of the things that made me suspicious. Well, let's first rewind - the first thing that made me notice him was the fact that picked [4][14], which was coincidentally d3's number. But no one else seemed to care and we were steering away from the draft analysis, so I didn't bring it up again and distract the thread. That's because nobody really had anything to gain by claiming that little quirk. opz had to have picked [4][?]. The second number really isn't that important. Back to his role. Foolishness and Korynne (I'm assuming Foolishness is the CV and Korynne also picked it) I sort of understand picking CV because Foolishness... might have wanted CV (? Don't really know why he went for it) and Korynne picked it as per what the town was discussing iirc. But Opz, I don't really understand at all. There's no reason why you would do that, the same as if there's no reason why anyone would have picked copycat, except for mafia. What's more, as I said when I called him out, is that he claimed going for Comp Vig after Korynne had long been talking about it, which makes it really easy for him to lie, similar to the way some of the numbers people claimed could be lies. He also said this early on: + Show Spoiler [Opz's post] +On May 03 2010 14:42 ~OpZ~ wrote:
It also gives the perfect opportunity for meds to just protect a smaller list of people. Inventor could claim, give someone from the top a veteran kit/bulletproof kit/nightlight to keep away the evil mafia away. Medicas can protect the other ones. We don't know who claimed Role Cop/ Alignment cop/meds...
We don't need the role I tried to pick, so me claiming shouldn't matter. Compulsive vig isn't really an epic role unless you are insanely lucky, or the town is insanely coordinated and good. So we should be good.
Alignment should check near top/Role cop should check near top. perhaps RC number 2, and alignment #1/3
Inventor could likely safely claim and coordinate atleast two protections. Seriously, hand out a vetkit/nightlight, and have a med protect him....If mafia hit a vet/bulletproof/protected target, they lose their nightkill...
Inventor shouldn't hide, and meds should protect him if mafia are likely to hit the top of the list.
Why claim later then? He says he's not going to claim, and later claims CompVigDenied-Vanilla. And, like I said, there was no need for him to roleclaim - there was no possible way it could help the town. We already knew that the CompVig was above Korynne. Unless she was lying, but his word was as good as hers. So claiming only helps the mafia really (unless you are lying to trick the mafia), because town can't really confirm that whether or not you're vanilla, but you're giving the mafia less targets to hit first. So a lot of unprovable "I'm Vanilla townie" things = I read possible scum. + Show Spoiler [His reply to me] +On May 05 2010 08:23 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2010 06:54 DarthThienAn wrote:On May 05 2010 06:30 Radfield wrote:Korynne is a girl folks, or at the very least, has roleclaimed girl lol. Korynne, that doesn't tell us anything, why'd you roleclaim? On May 05 2010 06:46 Radfield wrote:
In my eyes, it would be very strange for picks 1-5 to take copy cat. They can already take a good role, the only reason to take copy cat would be to deny Qatol a role.
7 and 8 are dead.
Qatol has cleared up his position in his recent novel, I'm inclined to believe him.
For now this leaves Sidesprang(9) and Opz(6). Opz at 6 is on that bubble of not making much sense to pick CC, but he might have. He also claims he went for CompVig, but of course his claim doesn't mean much for now.
Sidesprang, you happen to be at the perfect spot for taking CopyCat.
On another note. I hadn't realized we can vote on the CV hits at night. But of course this makes perfect sense and is what we should be doing.
Opz is also suspicious to me though. He claims he went for CompVig AFTER Korynne already stated that she went for it and failed - not only is that a useless roleclaim, but it's completely un-confirmable, which makes me think he might be lying. Well, you can confirm with a Role Check but that requires the Role Cop to claim, which obviously is not a good idea. His pointing out that going CC is retarded makes that just a little bit more suspicious, trying to cover his tracks and whatnot. He's also been (in general) against most of what the town has been saying, and without much justification, which is scummy to me. Definitely agree with the CV at night deal. I have a question though (read Qatol's post), who are we lynching? He/Rad I think suggested Day Vig'ing sidesprang and then lynching someone else? And what do we do in the case that no one picked Day Vig? Back to reading that essay -_- And when I die, I hope they read your name as the perpetrator who hath slain me. Just because I refuse to led around like a sheep? You go be sheep. I've also defended killing Qatol, which quite a few people jumped on that to say he should die, just based on role claims alone. Eh? Please appear less scummy to the green towny plz Darth. Thank you. Oh, and seriously, go look me up. I've been mafia once? I was silent the entire game. And every game I'm townie, I always say F the towns sheepness. I didn't bother replying with this because, we were moving on to move important things first of all, and his response didn't say anything except "this is how I play, Darth be less scummy plz." He sorta dodged the things I pointed out against him, but, once again, I didn't point this out because by the time I rechecked the thread, it would have been a waste of all of our times to reply. He's still suspicious to me, but you apparently have other concerns, so... No this is a decent argument other than the numbers thing. You really should have brought this up sooner.
Next. My thoughts about Scamp were this: as someone pointed out (Radfield maybe?), Scamp was a bit sporadic in his finger pointing. My argument was that a normal mafia wouldn't do this, imo. Mafia want to throw attention onto other people/things, not attract attention by calling out several people without justification. That's why I said that Scamp might be more town to me. It was just a personal hunch though. If you guys feel strongly about Scamp, go with it.
Those alive:
2. Foolishness - [1] [1]
3. Korynne - [1] [5]
4. Falcynn [1] [7]
5. [NyC]HoBbes - [4] [1]
6. ~OpZ~ - [4] [14]
10. Qatol - [6] [1]
11. JeeJee - [6] [1]
12. DarthThienAn - [8] [1]
15. Radfield - [10] [1]
16. Scamp - [10] [11]
17. Zona - [12] [1]
18. citi.zen - [12] [3]
I think Rad is innocent. I think Qatol is most likely town as well. Zona/citi.zen I haven't really looked at. Scamp I kinda thought was innocent because of his finger pointing. I'm not sure about the [1]'s, but, looking at who we have left, one of the mafia might be among them. If I was mafia, I personally wouldn't have picked [1] except to deny L first pick, but they very well could've. So what I said earlier was just a possibility - the same way that Qatol's groups, though it's very likely that they work out, are not for certain.
I actually have to go now, so I'll post this now and finish up later >_>. Class ~
Out of your statements, you said earlier you are inclined to believe that hobbes and jeejee are the same alignment. Now you just eliminated myself and radfield. I'm just wondering who that leaves. Foolishness/Korynne/Falcynn, opz, scamp, and zona/citi.zen unless hobbes and jeejee are both mafia. And one of the situations which you say is unlikely to be true pretty much must be true. I've been thinking about the medic thing a bit more. You are obviously a decently smart player (protecting Radfield over Bill Murray), so I think we should leave claiming up to you. However, you need to decide whether you want to claim right now. This is because if we put a mafia up on the chopping block, they can just claim medic to out you anyways. Serial Killer may try to do it to save their skin as well. If you do it, the mafia may just crossclaim in order to make us waste a lynch on you anyways (less likely than the other two, but possible, considering the state the game is in). The only way a player does not claim medic when they are on the chopping block is if they are an innocent non-medic. So I propose this idea: we believe a roleclaim of medic for the next 10 hours. This allows the medic to separate himself or herself from those we are actively talking about on the chopping block if necessary. If no roleclaim is forthcoming, we do not believe any future roleclaims of medic. Do not roleclaim unless you deem it absolutely necessary. We don't want to lose you tonight if we can help it. Anyone disagree with this idea? I'm confused. Won't day be well over in 10 hours? If the medic is to claim they should do it before day ends so we have ample time to move votes around. After missing a lynch on the first day I don't think we can afford to do the same thing. I'm also against the idea of the medic claiming in general because they will just die next night. The other medic is already dead (copycat is dead too, although he was mafia), BM is gone so he can't invent anything for protection. Doesn't seem like there's any way for the medic to survive the night if the mafia figure out who it is. Just because Radfield took a hit doesn't mean there's a medic. He could be SK. In fact, I think it's more likely he's SK than there was a medic protection. If he really did take a hit, it makes more sense for him to just say "I took a hit last night" as opposed to "I took a hit, thanks medic". First, he's revealed to the mafia that there is a medic (assuming he's innocent), and second, given the diverse roles available, if he just says "I took a hit" then that still leaves ambiguity in what his role could be. It's possible he was saved by a medic, he could be a veteran, he could be bulletproof, BM could have invented something (although Ace didn't say anything). Also, what's to say there's a medic protecting him and not a Jack? After writing that last paragraph, this is actually quite fishy. Nobody else claimed to take a hit. Maybe he's the SK and chose NOT to hit someone to get credibility. Agreed - the medic claim plan does not make any sense to me. On the Radfield issue - he would be taking a HUGE risk if he were the SK. There would likely be a medic out there knowing he lied. I don't see it. Maybe not. There could be a Jack protection. Given the lack of roles that were obtained in this game, it's very possible there's no other medic. It still doesn't add up. There's no way he could know there was a medic Okay you are totally right. Sorry, I'm still used to 48 hour days. We just don't have time to deal with a medic claim. I don't think that as a SK he would claim to be protected by a medic unless he was holding the role himself. Otherwise, those sorts of things can wind up coming back to bite you pretty badly, especially considering the emphasis we put on people taking that role during the role selection. Regardless, we need to pick someone and start voting. So who is the most suspicious to you and why? Korynne is most suspicious to me. She was an active part of the community in the beginning, and has since dropped out due to boredom (conveniently right as we killed a mafia too...). That's a pretty standard mafia move, and I think you already mentioned it: being active in the beginning to gain trust then hiding it out. The biggest reason I'm suspicious of her is because of her "fine just kill me if you don't believe me" attitude, and she has mentioned something along these lines in multiple posts, not just once. I see this defense all the time in real life mafia and it's usually the sign of a mafia member "giving up" so to say. The fact that she admitted to being bored and not wanting to contribute doesn't help either. And as far as I can see, Hobbes has contributed as much as Amnesia has this game. Having a "fun fun role" as he called it does not justify him sitting around. So you think the mafia picked 1? Darth was just mentioning that he did not think that was the case because of L/Bill Murray both claiming to have taken [1][1]. Do you disagree? Why?
I don't think you can make a fair judgment as to "oh mafia picked this number" or "mafia probably wouldn't pick this number". Someone mentioned early on about picking 1,1 because of WIFOM argument or something, whatever that means (I'm sure it's important because everyone uses this acronym). Just because they said they were taking it doesn't mean they will, this is a game about lying.
I pretty much just incriminated myself there considering I picked 1,1. I think everyone but Hobbes has posted enough where we don't really need to make judgments based on numbers. I like your theory that mafia wouldn't pick the same numbers, and I'm sure that's the case, but we shouldn't be using it as a final decision on who we lynch (I'm not accusing you of doing this, just pointing it out).
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On May 07 2010 07:08 Korynne wrote:
Hobbes:
Most notably claims he has a fun, fun role (Which JeeJee somewhat confirmed)
Agrees that inventor and compvig should be monitored by town
Sad about noone voting day 1, votes for johnnyspazz due to different play than previous game
Says that anyone taking copycat and town aligned would be stupid and no help, so agrees with lynching sidesprang
Makes a shifty compvig+weakdoctor plan that didn't work
Is now away catching up on sleep.
Conclusion: Really inactive, basically bandwagony, nothing exciting really. He didn't post much in the other game he was townie either.
Verdict: Not very suspicious. Would like it if Hobbes contributed more though.
Not going to lie, your analyses' seemed a bit half-assed. I assume that this is your way of responding to my post about you without actually addressing the key issues?
##Vote: Korynne
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I havent been just sitting around. I have not had the time whatsoever to be more active on the thread than I have been. I'm not purposely not posting, I haven't been home in front of a computer with time to think about the game very often at all. Won't be around later tonight to vote, so, as I believe her to be the most suspicious currently,
##Vote Korynne
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On May 07 2010 03:46 Scamp wrote:
The only problem with Korynne being mafia is that Foolishness would have to be mafia too. Remember that compvig was never actually confirmed, though if Radfield is telling the truth then there is one in the game (or we have a very sly mafia Joat).
Now that BM is confirmed inventor, for Korynne to lie about not getting compvig that means that Foolishness did not pick it. If Foolishness did not pick compvig then he would have no reason to lie to us at this point except if he's mafia.
I don't follow this at all. And I do not believe I have lied about my role at all, although if you think I have please quote me so I can clarify what I meant.
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Radfield:
Oh shit you're new, I thought you were totally vet and killed you the first night in BM's game. xD
Says Korynne could take JoaT since that seems like an important role.
Discusses trade-off between mafia stealing roles and making themselves easier to detect
Suggests bulletproof vests for inventions
Important to keep tabs on compvig and inventor
Questions Korynne's thing about role checking her (yeah yeah, I'm dumb leave me alone Dx)
Reminds people to ##compvig
Proposes to uber protect BM/Foolishness and check them
Invention talk about bulletproof vests...
Talking with Bill... same old like, everyone disagreeing with BM running off on his own type thing xD
Sidesprang as suspect after night.
Doesn't think Qatol is mafia at this point.
Thinks we should use dayvig on sidesprang.
Wants JeeJee to out his role to see if Hobbes or JeeJee is lying.
Lynch JeeJee if sidesprang flops green.
Bunch of other stuff about what happens if sidesprang flops green...
Doesn't think Korynne is mafia, based on stuff with Foolishness
OpZ apparently was not reading well and Radfield was like wtf man you read?
Points out that sidesprang would be awfully anti-town if he took copycat and was not mafia
Used the word deserves, peeps are like omg Radfield blah blah, Radfield is like my bad deserves is the wrong way to put it
Insistent on sidesprang, dont know what to go on after that
Points out Hobbes' broken plan.
Question about Amnesia getting modkilled.
Points out that Foolishness should claim CV/notCV (thank you, at least someone sees it xD)
Points out JeeJee should decide whether to out the role he tried to get
FoS on Scamp, not johnnyspazz but still voting compvig spazz
Asks BM to prove he's pro town
The whole I've been shot and protected by medic issue
Again I don't see why if I turn out red citizen is cleared...why do people keep saying that.
Tells SK that SK needs to play on town side atm.
Conclusion: Pretty chill, points out quite a few things, etc etc.
Verdict: Unlikely mafia. Started the sidesprang thing, seems pretty pro-town.
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On May 07 2010 07:43 [NyC]HoBbes wrote:
I havent been just sitting around. I have not had the time whatsoever to be more active on the thread than I have been. I'm not purposely not posting, I haven't been home in front of a computer with time to think about the game very often at all. Won't be around later tonight to vote, so, as I believe her to be the most suspicious currently,
##Vote Korynne
Uhh wut. I didn't accuse you of lurking or whatever. I just said would like you to be more active, but not saying that makes you scummy...
I said you went to sleep, I didn't even say like a (or so he says) at the end...
If you were mafia (even if you were legitimately busy) this seems like a good way to just be like, well here's my vote for her, since I won't be around you can't gain additional information on me etc.
>_>
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By the way, Bill Murray you'll be banned from future games for posting game relevant information after death. You should have known to keep your mouth shut.
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On May 07 2010 07:57 Ace wrote:
By the way, Bill Murray you'll be banned from future games for posting game relevant information after death. You should have known to keep your mouth shut.
Right, I was wondering about that one actually. I assume you're talking about him telling us he decided not to make an invention?
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Yay, other people find korynne fishy too.
##vote korynne##korynne##
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On May 07 2010 07:41 Foolishness wrote:
Not going to lie, your analyses' seemed a bit half-assed. I assume that this is your way of responding to my post about you without actually addressing the key issues?
##Vote: Korynne
There wasn't much information on Hobbes... you go do one on Hobbes and tell me what insightful information you find. >_>
Oh right, let's quote the smaller of the analyses I do...
I was not responding to your post, I was responding to Radfield being like you inactive and who you think is mafia. And me being like k imma post analysis later.
Korynne is most suspicious to me. She was an active part of the community in the beginning, and has since dropped out due to boredom (conveniently right as we killed a mafia too...). That's a pretty standard mafia move, and I think you already mentioned it: being active in the beginning to gain trust then hiding it out.
The biggest reason I'm suspicious of her is because of her "fine just kill me if you don't believe me" attitude, and she has mentioned something along these lines in multiple posts, not just once. I see this defense all the time in real life mafia and it's usually the sign of a mafia member "giving up" so to say. The fact that she admitted to being bored and not wanting to contribute doesn't help either.
And as far as I can see, Hobbes has contributed as much as Amnesia has this game. Having a "fun fun role" as he called it does not justify him sitting around.
I'm assuming this is the post you want me to reply to (if not redirect me to the post you want me to reply to).
"pretty standard mafia move"s are pretty terrible moves for mafia to make since that would make them seem mafia no? My last game I was active the whole way through. First game I kinda dropped off at the end as well cuz it was like blargh...we don't really have anything to go on. I felt the same here, it was like omg planz cool cool and then like, oh shit, plans didn't work out so well... and not really sure where to proceed.
It's not so much a fine just kill me attitude as like a, well you can kill me if you need to, to prove that BM/Foolishness is mafia when it comes to that. Because I feel like we don't have a whole lot of checks to throw around so if there was a situation where if I was telling the truth then we are pretty sure about who of them is mafia, then killing me (vanilla townie) then them (power role mafia) seems like a good idea since it's like, 1 for 1, and I'm vanilla and killing me first would be like making sure me as a mafia doesn't lead you to killing a town aligned power role.
Also I'm not so much bored as burnt out, and realizing I don't really enjoy larger mafia games. Also, there's few enough of us that catching someone being active in the beginning then being inactive would be pretty sure to happen, so again, would be bad move on my part if I was mafia.
If I was mafia, I'd say I would've "deproved" from my last game. xD
Anyway if I do get lynched I apologize to town for them wasting a lynch, and maintain that I tried to get the role of CompVig and failed so Foolishness must be CompVig.
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EPT
