EPTMicro-MAFIA (The First)
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Ace
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Ace
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It's much costlier to make mistakes but also hella damaging killing just 1 scum. | ||
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If people are going to be laxed this game I think we should vote off lurkers. More discussion helps the Town and if people don't talk then we'll lose. | ||
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Ace
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##vote Versatile## for not bringing any other women into the game with her | ||
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Ace
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##vote Vivi57## He's inactive and he's is by far the worst player in this game. We all know this so lets stop kidding our selves. FoS on nemy. Both posts he has made have had literally nothing. He is the only one besides Vivi57 so far that has had people vote for him seriously and he pretty much scoffed it off. Defend yourself for real or get voted off. Citizen her leaving my name off the list wasn't THAT fishy, so I don't see why you voted for her. Looked like weak reasoning to me. | ||
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Ace
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"he's doing a ton of crap and moving votes around" - doing stuff is null and moving votes around is usually scummy. It's so early and not enough people have wagons on them so there isn't too much sketchiness about switching votes. However indecisiveness is usually meaning you can't make up your mind about something or just dont want to stand your ground, the latter of which is usually scummy. The read on fishball is cool, but knowing that guy he voted for nemy for the lulz. | ||
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Ace
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But on to a finer point: Vivi is just bad. In fact I don't even have to tell you, and you don't even have to read past games to know - look at his response in this very thread. Instead of even trying to look innocent he kinda shrugs it off and casually tosses a vote onto fishball. Bad players don't help you win and no one else except nemy looks remotely suspicious. Also, Vivi is a lurker. So if you want to say we should start lynching lurkers to force them to post then we might as well lynch the scummiest of all the lurkers. Between Vivi57, yourself and Abenson reading this thread from the beginning who looks the scummiest? My answer would be set on Vivi57 just like my vote. As for citizen and Versatile I thought that was just hilarity. People insult each other all the time in Mafia games and that didn't seem over the top to me. Also being emotional isn't exactly a bad thing ^_^ | ||
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Ace
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Ace
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On March 25 2010 05:52 nemY wrote: To be honest, i still don't quite understand the WIFOM scenario, but yeah i googled most of it. Can someone care to elaborate on WIFOM? Regardless, it seems like people are trying to act all hip and cool by using mafia-related terminology, when in fact all they're really saying is NOTHING CONTENT RELATED. It's ok though, I get it. Day One lynches have little, if anything to really be based on. That said I change my vote to ##Abenson## because he's first on the list of people and because he's posted absolutely NOTHING but sarcasm this entire game. WIFOM is very simple but it's usually explained in retarded ways. Simplest way to look at it: 1.) I can do X to you. 2.) You know I can do X, so you will do Y. 3.) I know that you can do Y, so I'll do Z. 4.) You know that I know you can do Y, and that I can do Z, so you'll do A. 5.) I know .....so I'll go back to doing X. It's just a way to say "hey if I were you, I'd do this!" and from then on people discuss from there at which point it's no longer rational to do X,Y,Z or A (because in a game of Mafia none of the 4 choices usually exist, it's usually like 2 and MAYBE 3 at best). | ||
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Also where is everyone else? Let's not allow discussion to stall so people can lollurk their way through the game. | ||
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Sigh, Vivi getting medic was pretty much an auto loss from the start. | ||
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Ace
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This thread has only 7 pages and he's managed to accuse at least 3 people?! How is that good town play? Even with the last minute roleclaim he looked shoddy. When you are being band wagoned the last thing you'd want to do is accuse multiple people - they'll tend NOT to take their votes off of you in that case. Then again, your vote is on him too. Why didn't you switch?  You could have voted for Johnnyspazz and tied it up, hoping someone else switched their vote too. What was your reason for not switching, because we all know I wasn't going to move my vote anyway. | ||
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Ace
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On March 26 2010 11:52 citi.zen wrote: Also, I am asking you specifically Ace since you are most likely to know lynching someone who claimed blue made little sense. You played a LOT of games and thought about these sort of situations many times. ??? You must not know me ^_^ I'm one of the few people who'd lynch a DT or medic claiming Day 1 in a second. | ||
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If a medic claims why should you let them live? Look at what you're suggesting: Player A claims medic on day 1. The town lets him live, saying that if the Mafia kill him he's proved he is a medic. The Mafia knowing this, has a really good option not to kill the medic because the town will lynch him the next day. If the medic lives that night, the town can't go back and say "well maybe the Mafia decided not to hit him". Why would we? We'd be back in Day 1 a player short and in the same position. Then there's the classic argument of why would Mafia claim Medic when they are about to die - why not? The optimal play is staying alive.If scum feels a medic claim will confound the town, let him live another day and be able to weasel away with it then he's winning. Just because players are bad doesn't mean the play the town made was bad itself. He flipped medic but everything before his claim was terrible play. Any good player would have called for his head. | ||
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Ace
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The Mafia knowing this, has a really good option not to kill the medic because the town will lynch him the next day. If the medic lives that night, the town can't go back and say "well maybe the Mafia decided not to hit him". Why would we? We'd be back in Day 1 a player short and in the same position. Next day there still isn't any good reason for the town to lynch him, unless the mafia happened to kill a medic during the night making it plainly obvious he was lying. Otherwise the same logic applies: let the mafia waste the KP and/or wait for a DT check or a competing medic claim/death to clarify things/provide more information. There IS a good reason for the town to lynch him. Look, if the Mafia never hit a medic but always get their kills through the real medic is essentially useless. What is the town going to do? Blame the medic? They can't because they aren't even sure the medic is legit. Do you think the REAL medic is going to roleclaim?! Seriously? Which is going to definitely result in a dead medic that night - the same thing you want to avoid. Mafia don't waste KP killing medics - thats exactly what they want. Medics aren't there to take bullets that is just absurd thinking. Then in a small game as this, you want the DT to RC the medic which just helps what I'm trying to tell you - the DT must not believe the medic claim. Else why would he "waste a rolecheck" right? :D If a red role-claims they are taking a major risk: the "real" blue is out there looking to nail them. This is a better position for town than what we have now. If the "real" medic somehow dies the town automatically knows the initial role-claim was false and bam, we have a red. The bottom line is that there is no reason for the town to risk killing a blue. Even if the mafia lets them live to spread confusion, or even if the claim was false and he was red, the town has more information. Again, I feel like you know all this and we're just going through the motions here. You don't ever let unconfirmed power roles run around. You don't let players live "because they might be blue". Unless they have very convincing arguments then they shouldn't be left alive. There IS no better position for the town. If you have an outted medic and the Mafia know they can get kills off with the medic still living THE TOWN LOSES. Point blank. Because the longer the medic lives in the open with the claim the more sketchy the medic looks. Everyone who has played with me knows I will kill Day 1 claimers. Ask any decent player thats played with people that aren't afraid to false claim and you'll see them rage about how dumb the town was for letting the guy live "because he might be legit". Scum's entire strategy revolves around staying alive. I guess if I live tonight, role claim DT tomorrow and say I got an innocent result on Fishball I deserve to live right? Because I might be a blue and no one counter-claimed me. | ||
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I'm sure you aren't surprised about this right? | ||
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On March 27 2010 11:42 citi.zen wrote: Right... Vivi got medic and Versatile DT. Solid. @ Ace - I am not surprised at all. I argued with two people: Versatile and yourself. She died. I look suspicious. You are alive. As stated multiple times, I also disagree with your statement that lynching Vivi was the right call, even after you saw he claimed medic. It's all in the thread, town-aligned players would read those exchanges. I'll say this: take my posts out and you have nothing going on in this thread. Make up your own mids what, if anything, that means about my alignment. If we screw up the day 2 lynch it's 3 v 2 on day 3, so all 3 town players would need to agree to vote for the same red player. Maybe it's time to start contributing. ##Vote Ace## You already know just like everyone else that Vivi claiming Medic wasn't going to change my vote. I've already explain that. So saying "even when you saw Vivi claim medic" isn't helpful at all. On the other hand YOU could have saved him. You didn't change your vote and now want to make it look like I'm at fault. I've stood by my decision wholeheartedly while you are not even acknowledging you yourself are a cause of his death. Likewise if you take my posts out of this thread game activity drops also. How does that make you more innocent than anyone else? @Fishball: Yea I know Verse better than anyone. Doesn't mean it's my fault she's dead. The more I read citizen's posts the more scummy he comes across. He points out that he argued with Versatile, she died, and he looks suspect. As if the notion of admitting he might be scummy clears him in my eyes. | ||
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Ace
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Someone already brought that point up about the other game ^_^ | ||
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I got 2 quick votes and one from RoL who's barely posted and everyone else is pretty much inactive. | ||
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Either way how does letting me die from 2 quick votes help the town? I still don't understand how me OR citizen are guaranteed to be mafia. There isn't a DT check or a counter claim here, and we've got lots of players lurking. I think citizen is the scummiest person here so far but when I flip green you've still got to look at the people not placing votes. Look at how fast I caught those 2 votes and we've got 4 non-voters. This is ridiculous lurking. ##unvote citizen## | ||
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And yes I think the most active posters might be green. Still think citizen is scum though. But looking at the 2 quick votes I'm not ruling out RoL. | ||
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Explain how this makes sense? So ok. Myself and citizen are the most active players. You guys lynch me and I flip green, then citizen being the only active poster is killed and flips green. So what do we do next? | ||
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Ace
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On March 28 2010 05:00 citi.zen wrote: It's not an issue. If the town screws up this lynching the game is over. I've discussed why before. Why I continue to think Ace is the best candidate: wrong on the vivi argument; keeps ignoring posts, preferring vagueness and calling me "scummy" instead of discussing anything of substance. That said, Ace is known to be impatient with bad players (vivi?). Also, if he is green and accused by me it's only natural he would feel I'm red. So in the end I feel there is a 50% chance Ace is red. This sucks, given it's now or never. Still, picking someone else would be even more of a crapshoot. The hugely lucky Mafia + inactive town means there is nothing more I can do. and this is the bullshit I'm talking about. TOWN PAY ATTENTION! 1.) I am not wrong on the vivi argument. You asked my opinion and I stated it. How is it that all of a sudden it's purely wrong even though you voted for Vivi? Whether you were at work or not isn't even a relevant excuse. We can't prove that. The point is YOU had a vote on the dead medic so you are responsible just as much as I am. 2.) Keep ignoring posts? I respond to your accusations every time and in fact have proven you wrong. Remember how you claimed being your posting level is keeping the game active, but when I said the same thing you just blew it off? 3.) Not discussing anything of substance? Hello? I'm the one trying to keep the game going. You've asked me about Vivi, RoL has tried to have some sort of lopsided discussion with me and I've posted about everything from lynching lurkers to lynching unproved claimers. Your statement here is a lie. 4.) You say there's a 50% chance I'm mafia and it's now or never. So you aren't even sure I'm mafia and yet you think it's better to lynch me because picking someone else would be a crapshoot. Well isn't lynching me a crapshoot if you aren't even sure?! ##vote citizen I'm convinced citizen is scum. Even more so by the fast vote out of no where by RebirthofLegend. Then after 40 hours of being afk nemy (o hai!) shows up with a bs vote on me. That's 3 votes on me and no votes on anyone else since the day post and no one else finds this suspect? You're kidding right? | ||
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On March 28 2010 15:16 citi.zen wrote: How does this suggestion not bother anyone else? Going into the night with a no lynch makes it 4 v 2 on day 3. No DT = no sure lynch. Also, the two mafia votes count more and more as there are fewer townies. ehh? You've admitted that you aren't even sure who you think is Mafia right? The "I'm 50% sure Ace is Mafia" line. The fact that you aren't sure and STILL want to lynch someone is exactly why I called you on it. If we lynch a townie, we lose 2. There is no medic so a townie gets killed tonight. What i'm saying is if you aren't even sure then it makes sense to vote for a no lynch and try again tomorrow. Killing people just for the sake of killing them is exactly why I'm keeping my vote on you. I've responded to your claims about Vivi and yet you say I'm not posting content. You blame me for Vivi's death and yet you also have a vote on him, even using an excuse to make yourself look like you are less responsible. Point of the matter is you've been tunnel visioning me all game making it LOOK like you're scumhunting when you've even admitted that you weren't sure I'm scum. Then when I brought up the point that I got hit with 2 votes very fast, then a third from nemy you just brushed it off with inane logic saying because there are 2 Mafia in the game those votes aren't scummy. Right... People lets be real here. The only reason I'm under suspicion is because I'm Ace. No one wants to admit it but because I'm a good player and didn't die Night 1 is the only reason I'm being voted on. You have no case on me. The best thing anyone has is that I voted for Vivi57 and thats it. It only seemed bad because he flipped Medic and there is no way I could have known that. Look back at the beginning of the game - I always had my serious votes on him. It's been nothing but a smear campaign to undermine me when you all know I think Vivi is useless. | ||
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johnnyspazz and haster need to post more because obviously lurking in a small game is really bad for the town. Fishball if you aren't convinced anyone is Mafia I think we should go with a no lynch. Getting 2 innocents killed is disastrous. I'd rather us not randomly kill a townie and have no clue about what's going. One death is much better than the guaranteed two if we mislynch here. | ||
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So wait let me get this straight. I'm discrediting citizen even though I've pointed out that his reasons that I'm Mafia are that I'm wrong in debate and that I voted for the same guy he voted for? And lynching an innocent townie today is much better than no lynching? Are you serious? Of course, me trying to stay alive is scummy because getting killed is clearly the thing a Townie would do. Are you reading? So Citizen currently has 4 votes on him, I have 3. Citizen is definitely in line for lynching first, but I'm the one that's scum when I'm arguing that we should be considering the No Lynch so we could go into tomorrow 4 v 2 instead of 3 v 2. Right. I'm the one making bad arguments and bad logic here. I'm advocating saving people while you just want somebody to die screaming do something when you aren't exactly the most active person here. | ||
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Ace
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You just note how you obtained the first two votes with people posting opinions. No proving wrong being done. There isn't a point to prove here. This is telling Townies to look at how fast I got quick voted. Haven't proved anything except arguing the logic of lynching one you you. Seems like you are just trying to make sure you live and are doing everything you can to paint yourself in a positive light, I mean who cares if we don't lynch Citizen, as long as we don't lynch you, right? Mafia thinking. No shit I'd try to make sure I live. If we put 4 votes on you would you just lay down and be like oh well gg. No, you'd try to live. Especially if you know the case against you is laughable. Of course you conveniently want anyone to die right? Nothing has been said here, except you rather a no lynch, then a lynch you. Which would put us in the exact same situation just allowing the mafia to put themselves in a gaming winning position on that day by merely manipulating the lynch because of the inactive town. No lynch today is dumb, we need someone fucking gone. More to you just wanting anyone to die. I'd rather a No Lynch than a Mislynch. When you mislynch today it's one less townie tomorrow. You keep IGNORING this point. You aren't even trying to debate it. It's "we need someone dead" and you aren't even contemplating that a dead townie leaves 3 v 2 tomorrow. Kill anybody and as long as someone dies it's ok? Right. I suppose its important that he tried to vote someone else (lawl) Who cares? But what points have you even disproved at this point? Everyone was on board with lynching Vivi until he claimed. To look up the exact post, he claimed with 3 hours left. Giving no real time for discussion. I can't blame you for that, Vivi was stupid to wait that long when it seemed obvious he was dead. I've disproved all your points while you keep posting lies. Everyone was not on board for lynching Vivi. here, look at the votes: ace citi.zen johnnyspazz haster27 Of those people I was the most strongly for it and you know it. I already explained I don't take Day 1 Doc claims as proof of innocence and I've said that countless times in other games. My argument was that knowing this you can't hold me accountable for Vivi flipping medic. I can't know that information as scum. Citizen was saying I was wrong about the Vivi situation so therefore I must be scum. He asked me about it, I replied and then there's a hate wagon. I am 90% sure, does that make it better? Stop attacking nonpoints. You are posting nothing, and are our best candidate today, so just die with honor. Right. Because 90% sure is much better than 50% sure. See you aren't even reading. This IS a critical point. It shows you two aren't even sure who is Mafia and would rather kill anyone. That is clearly a bad idea and that's why I keep calling citizen on it and now you. It's like when I flip town you'll say "well I wasn't so sure anyway" and absolve responsibility. Sorry, you and your scum partner are dying. Hell you aren't even reading the rules because a double lynch doesn't exist. You won't even acknowledge the fact that you and citizen quick voted on shoddy points and have spent all your energy and tried to paint me scum as soon as you got the chance. But the entire town must be stupid because citizen has 4 votes on him right? | ||
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Ace
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If I was Mafia I'd just be content letting him die, or any townie for that matter. If I was scum why would I go into a situation 4 v 2 when surely citizen would get lynched, flip townie and I could go into the next Day 3 v 2? Please explain this. 4 Townies vs 2 Scum is WAY better than 3 Townies vs 2 Scum. What extra information do you see coming out of lynching an innocent today that puts us at a better position? The Mafia are killing someone tonight regardless. I don't know why you keep ignoring this. I'm discrediting citizen? He's posting blatantly wrong information and tried to use the Vivi discussion against me. Am I supposed to just be like you know what, you're right. I'm guilty for getting Vivi killed when he himself has a vote on the guy? Lol ok Rol, you sure are making sense here. Right now it's either myself or citizen. Jspazz nor haster are in any position to get lynched so your argument is irrelevant. However just for sake of showing you why it makes no sense if either of us get lynched and flip town what new information are you going to glean with it? You're going to go into the next day with 3 townies instead of 4. How in the hell is that a good situation? You'll be in LYLO immediately. Then you make the mistake of saying well if one of them flips green, the other is definitely red so let's kill him! Seriously, I'm starting to think you just want anyone dead. ##unvote citizen## ##vote RoL## I may have thought citizen was scummy before, and I still do. However, I think you're recent behavior is actually far worse. I think citizen was wrong on his posts about me but I never got the feeling he wanted anyone dead. You just don't care who the fuck dies. Town, we've got until 10PM ET. Read Rebirth's posts please. Hell, we can all even discuss the current No Lynch vs Lynch option. I'm not liking RoL's kill anyone attitude. | ||
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On March 29 2010 00:58 citi.zen wrote: I am not even sure where to start. There are only 2 reds, but far more people not making sense - meaning that pointing out inconsistencies will not help me get the mafia. Can't congratulate the mafia, this is primarily the town's own doing. So screw it, there is no more I can do here. Go ahead and lynch me. You've still got till 10 PM ET. I've also unvoted you as I think RoL is actually far more disgusting. | ||
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Ace
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Townie lynch = 3 Townies vs 2 Mafia next day. No Lynch = 4 Townies vs 2 Mafia next day. Instead of having to convince 1 player on a mislynch scum now have to convince 2. How is this not important? We aren't killing people for the sake of killing them. Where was I not clear on why killing one of you gives us more information? If one of us gets lynched and we flip town, what's your other course of action? I said you can't just assume the other person is automatically Mafia. Hell we could both be Townies. Just because we are arguing doesn't mean one of us has to be scum. Your other statement: Lynching today almost guarantees a good lynch tomorrow. Is part of the reason I asked this. If we lynch today and flip town then how is that a guaranteed Mafia lynch tomorrow? | ||
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Ace
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Go into tomorrow 4 vs 2 or 3 vs 2. Don't just say "I'm gonna die" and give up. Play to win this shit. | ||
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you're kidding right? ##unvote rol ## vote citizen | ||
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##vote citizen## | ||
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RoL is a confirmed townie but he was also wrong. Citizen was a confirmed townie also, was he right then too? Of course, you voted for him to die too. In fact you 1 line quoted part of my post and said "I'm convinced!" and never came back until after the hammer fell. ##vote johnnyspazz## | ||
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No lurking to victory over here. | ||
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2.) where is your vote? That said I understand where you come from with the Fishball argument. Trust me, it makes tons of sense. However Fishball may look, you and jspazz look far more suspect. Yes Fishball's logic was crap but you have lurked forever and you don't have a valid excuse. You could read this thread in 10 minutes and make a decent post so what gives? Next Jspazz lurked too. Even worse when he did post well...yea. Clear bandwagoning. I'm sure you yourself would agree you two look the most suspect. | ||
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Nemy hasn't even lurked if you consider that of the people alive, I think he's posted the second most? Him and Fishball pretty much. I singled out jspazz because he lurked AND his votes were always wagon votes. Hell, he wasn't even trying to cover this up. | ||
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##vote johnnyspazz## | ||
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##vote haster27## Last minute voting is no thx. I like how lurkers show up at the very end on a LYLO. | ||
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On April 01 2010 11:01 Fishball wrote: I was observing the pattern and keep track of the thread this entire hour when I was busy typing up a post in your game. Haster broke the balance and that just blew all my plans to ashes. If you are green Ace, no one can save you now after Haster's vote chance. If you are red, then good riddance... yea I kinda expected somebody to try funny stuff at the end | ||
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