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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
On January 15 2012 10:20 GreYMisT wrote:
With the conclusion of mini mafia II there were 3 forced replacements and 1 modkill. I would suggest standard warnings for Gretorp, Xeris, AnxiousHippo, and Kronhjort, as this is a newbie game and kronjort, although requesting to be a replacement, never ended up responding to my PM telling him he replaced into the game.
Noted, thank you.
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On January 15 2012 10:20 GreYMisT wrote:
With the conclusion of mini mafia II there were 3 forced replacements and 1 modkill. I would suggest standard warnings for Gretorp, Xeris, AnxiousHippo, and Kronhjort, as this is a newbie game and kronjort, although requesting to be a replacement, never ended up responding to my PM telling him he replaced into the game.
Since when did force replacements/modkills only warrant a warning?
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Oh because famous people. My bad.
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On January 16 2012 06:23 redFF wrote:
Oh because famous people. My bad.
Pretty sure its because Newbie game
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I don't see why their fame or their being newbies should matter at all. They were inactive and it hurt the experience for the other players. If anything, I think inactive players have a worse effect upon newbie games because we are less likely to get active, new players out of those games due to inactive players hurting the experience.
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I had only conisidered it as a warning because it was a newbie game, their fame had nothing to do with my decision. While I do agree with you Qatol, I also feel that most new players don't understand the specific time Commitment, and they shouldn't get slammed for that. Of course they also made no effort to replace out as well.
As far as kronhjort's modkill is concerned, I only consider it as a warning because, as far as I know, dispite signing up as a replacement he never responded to my PM that he had been replaced.
I am fine with my decision, though I will defer to flamewheel if he wants harsher punishment.
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One game bans were given out to modkills when Gmarshal hosted his newbie games. I don't see the need for this change.
Get Modkilled/Force Replaced=Ban
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To maintain my integrity, I would request a ban for those mod-killed in Newbie Mafia II.
I said I would in the game, so here I am. It ruined the experience for me. Point of fact, the only mafia we lynched had every single mafia voting for him (including himself) and we narrowly missed a no-lynch. This wasn't Day 4, it was our second lynch.
I put a ton of effort into that game and it was ruined because the only people participating were either mafia or died early. I don't mind losing to a mafia team who play brilliantly. In that game they gained town credit just by posting. You can say we were stupid to use that as a criterion for townie-ness but when so many people don't bother to post, what choice do we have? I am taking anything away from how mafia played but I do believe they gained an advantage simply because their players bothered to show up.
I enjoyed the game but I don't think I will be playing again for a while. It just isn't worth the time and effort. Grey, I appreciate that it is a newbie game, but it is still a game that we play to win.
What is the point of having expectations if you don' t enforce the rules?
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I'm with redFF, Qatol, and Probulous; ban them. If they really want to play they'll sit a game out and try again, if they can't even do that then no loss.
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Come on guys, it's Xeris. We can't ban Xeris.
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USA5860 Posts
Just ban them, a one game ban is no big deal anyway. For the sake of consistency, etc.
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On December 17 2011 13:03 Zona wrote:
I haven't changed my mind. I think the idea that players are entitled to a warning by PM is ridiculous, like Qatol said, if they're playing or otherwise posting in the thread, they should be reading the thread. Some hosts don't even bother warning here.
I also don't like the concept where some rules are arbitrarily deemed less important than others. My rules are clearly stated in the OPs, which I make sure I do not edit once the game begins, so there's no excuse.
Student Mafia:
Starshard and Hassybaby were both involuntarily replaced for inactivity. As newcomers to TL mafia, I would like warnings for them.
xsksc notified me about having an emergency. An earlier precedent for warnings for newcomers. Where was this righteous indignation then?
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On January 16 2012 10:31 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2011 13:03 Zona wrote:
I haven't changed my mind. I think the idea that players are entitled to a warning by PM is ridiculous, like Qatol said, if they're playing or otherwise posting in the thread, they should be reading the thread. Some hosts don't even bother warning here.
I also don't like the concept where some rules are arbitrarily deemed less important than others. My rules are clearly stated in the OPs, which I make sure I do not edit once the game begins, so there's no excuse.
Student Mafia:
Starshard and Hassybaby were both involuntarily replaced for inactivity. As newcomers to TL mafia, I would like warnings for them.
xsksc notified me about having an emergency. An earlier precedent for warnings for newcomers. Where was this righteous indignation then?
Firstly, just because Zona felt it was appropriate does not mean others do.
Secondly I was not in that game so have no comment on the replacements affect.
Thirdly, just because they were let off by the host for that game does not mean that the rules don't apply for other games.
Finally I am faily certain that the players in that game felt warnings were appropriate. I do not feel that way about my game. This is why it is up to the host and Foolishness/FW to make a decision in each case.
You are right in that people should take a consistent stance. The rules state they should be banned.
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On January 16 2012 10:31 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2011 13:03 Zona wrote:
I haven't changed my mind. I think the idea that players are entitled to a warning by PM is ridiculous, like Qatol said, if they're playing or otherwise posting in the thread, they should be reading the thread. Some hosts don't even bother warning here.
I also don't like the concept where some rules are arbitrarily deemed less important than others. My rules are clearly stated in the OPs, which I make sure I do not edit once the game begins, so there's no excuse.
Student Mafia:
Starshard and Hassybaby were both involuntarily replaced for inactivity. As newcomers to TL mafia, I would like warnings for them.
xsksc notified me about having an emergency. An earlier precedent for warnings for newcomers. Where was this righteous indignation then?
I don't think anyone is feeling particularly righteously indignant. You should see the debates we get into when we are. 
That discussion happened right around the holidays and it probably just slipped through the cracks because of that. Regardless, the standard has always been a one game ban for a first inactivity modkill without a reason. I don't see a reason to change that now.
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this is why newbie games make things weird ^^
they segregate the player base and then some different expectations are thrust upon the newer players just because they are new. This should not happen; they should be treated like any other player.
Indeed, if it was a new player in a regular game I'm sure he or she would've been banned.
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Probolous I'm really sorry your game was ruined. It's tough but it can't be helped. We don't ban people for your satisfaction.
I agree with Greymist that warnings are sufficient and dealing out bans here to me feels pointless and harsh. If we can't be faulted for not giving them all the information, then bans might be justified. But in this game I feel they didn't understand what they signed up for. We need to prevent this from occuring again but the realistic way to accomplish that is we must take more time to assure ourselves of the commitment of the players before we start.
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Well I have made my feelings clear on the matter. I don't want the dick that ruins this for others. If a warning is felt sufficient, so be it.
I would like to point out that Grey and Risk did a fantastic job in running the game, despite the needed replacements. This by no means reflects on them.
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No fuck that. They get 1 game bans because that is the standard.
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I don't think Kronhjort deserves anything. From what I understand he signed up as a replacement then when he got replaced into the game never posted and got modkilled (without responding to the replacement PM).
From how I've seen things done is even if you sign up as a replacement the host still PMs you beforehand asking if you are still available to replace in. If the host gets no answer or a no then you aren't replaced in, if you answer yes then you replace in.
Yeah he did sign up as a replacement but something might have happened or something might have come up. Tons of people sign up as replacements cause they don't have time to play the actual game and put their names in in case their situation changes and sometimes it doesn't and they still can't play when called upon.
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
I agree more with consistency. To the ban list they go!
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EPT
