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On February 10 2010 06:09 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2010 05:53 sidesprang wrote:On February 10 2010 05:36 citi.zen wrote:3. As soon as one mafia family falls down to 2 or fewer members, they've essentially lost the game- they cannot win, because either they will be wiped out (the other mafia family wins), or they will reduce the other mafia family to 1-2 members in which case the Town wins. What incentive is there for this mafia family to keep playing, considering they cannot win? Will they have some kind of secondary objective, like a consolation prize? e.g. maybe a secondary objective of theirs would be to not be wiped out, in which case once they fall down to 2 members, they have to push for a Town win rather than let the other mafia family win. This is a very good question. maybe they retire as mafia and join the townies ?  So in the end the victory objective for the mafia changes to... killing the entire town? I don't see it... + Show Spoiler +I guess we could have 2, or even 3 families who are unaware of each other, but they should still aim to kill the town, no?
The leftover mafia become similar to town-aligned vigis. Their presence can and will still confuse the Town into a loss if DT rolechecks them and they've been acting stupid. It then becomes the town's responsibility to... PROTECT the remaining smaller mafia faction to prevent a TOWN loss.
LOL.
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On February 10 2010 06:52 citi.zen wrote:
So I guess the mafia win condition is "make other mafia lose"?
Pretty much...
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In response to your response, Ver...
If the win condition for the Town is to have 2 or less mafia left in each family, and we're left in a 3-1 mafia vs X townies situation (where X is obviously >3), then there is no reasonable way for mafia 2 to accomplish their win condition, only that of the Town's... unless I'm critically misreading something.
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On February 11 2010 17:03 Mystlord wrote:
Woo updated my profile big time with just stuff I found interesting. A bit of rambling.
Now since my profile is so diverse, EVERY clue can point to me ha ha ha! Wait a second...
don't worry; we have the same Lolita quote, so we share at least that >_>
thinking I should make my references to theologians much more clearly though...
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On February 12 2010 08:25 Fulgrim wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2010 07:55 tree.hugger wrote:
I think it'll be nice to have a game where half the people and nearly all the blues aren't inactive... You sound like you speak from experience tree.hugger
yeah must have been real rough having to deal with all those inactives...
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On February 12 2010 11:46 Ace wrote:
I'd like to sign up AGAIN! Having 2 of me is the only way to balance the inevitable rapefest coming along.
one in each mafia family, eh?
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voting thread is up already!?
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time to make a new set of dossiers...
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On February 14 2010 10:50 Mystlord wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2010 10:43 meeple wrote:On February 14 2010 10:37 MasterDana wrote:
Also, did Wine Barrels or Football fields stand-out to anyone? It could've easily said "Barrel" or "100-yards", but it got descriptive. Just something I noticed. I thought about it... but generally its better to profile the killers right now. Last game we made a huge deal about some heavily caffeinated tea at the beginning that ended up being nothing. Often it seems that the host is overly descriptive just to make our lives harder. Ah ha ha I remember that. I think clues would mostly be concentrated in areas that actually describe somehow the killers right? I didn't take notice if that was the case at the end of the last mafia game, but I believe that was how it turned out.
Generally I think is the case, but each host's clue style is a little different as well, especially for the more vague Day 1 clues.
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@Ver, what about Game 15 where BC just posted random rhyming gibberish?
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On February 14 2010 11:20 Caller wrote:
Ver, I'm not entirely sure lynching BC is a very good idea. While I agree with you on the election post, consider the thing about BC is that he's very good at identifying people's roles and the like. We ideally should keep him alive as long as possible. Even if he is scum, you'd consider that he would likely focus on the other mafia, and this gives us two things:
a) dead mafia on the other family
b) a free kill for a vig or lynch on his family.
More importantly, we can trace some of his support if he is indeed scum, which may give us more information. It all depends on what he can do for us.
Of course, if he's town affiliated, he can only benefit us.
I submit that we lynch random people for the first lynch like we usually do. You never know, we may get lucky. Lynching strong players right now could really hurt the town, especially without any information. Of course, it may also cripple mafia as well, but I'm not sure we should take such a risk right now.
I agree with this - out of all the possible mafia candidates to lynch, we should reserve the best ones for later. The town HAS to play both families against the other without playing too much into either one's plans. Even if BC was mafia, then the other mafia would KNOW to keep their sights on him for his supposed prowess at identifying people... but if the TOWN killed him right away, then it'd just be doing their dirty work for them.
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On February 14 2010 12:01 L wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2010 11:45 Ace wrote:
Ok, the KingPin has arrived. Time to stop this nonsense and get this game started.
First of all, I'm going to be brutally honest here. Some of you playing are newbies. That isn't to say you're bad, but more so that you haven't had the experience of playing a true cut throat game of Mafia. The last 2 games were honestly so bland - aka too much talking about clues, that it wasn't really that much high level strategy going on.
Like Ver said, talking too much about clues early is USELESS. Don't try to convince anyone that someone is Mafia based on clues for the first few days. It's nice to mention it, but do not make it a central point of focus. MTF and Camlito are the best 2 clue analyzers along with Plexa that we ever had. That was in Mafia 2 and it took a ton of planning + input from various people to even come to some of those conclusions. Chances are you won't be able to do much with clues this game unless you've got some additional proof. What I mean by this is catch someone on behavior analysis + clues + shoddy voting or motives. Saying "this clue points to Ace" is just stupid.
Knowing this, I'm not surprised LL and Zato -1 are already accusing me. Look people, especially for you new players - I'm one of the biggest targets in any Mafia game. Every time. I'm super valuable. I catch people in lies all the time and I always save townies from the obvious bandwagon deaths. L and Zato may not have blatantly accused me but they just planted a seed of suspicion on me of all people, based on some wild clues. Be very wary of light weight accusations like this.
I'm running for Mayor of course. But in the event I don't win, my vote is possibly going to Ver. The only reason I might not vote for him is because he has elected to kill BC which is just as bad as L/Zato wanting me dead. Our most valuable players should be saved unless it's blatantly obvious they are Mafia. There are 3 teams this game, don't even bother trying to murder all of our good players so soon.
Summarized version: I'm angry that in game where 2 out of 5 people are mafia, that someone called me out on blatant clue connections. I could understand if we had a 20 man game with like, 4 mafia, that a host would understandably shy away from good day 1 clues, but that's really not the case here. Compare this game's Day 1 post with clues to pretty much any of the others; This one is far larger, has more thematic elements and establishes 3-4 clear personae. Actually, I kinda want to repeat that; Lets look at this current game format. The town consists of 31 members. The mafia families combined amount to 20 members. Mafia, given that they attack a group that is 41 members large, and not 51 members large, have a 1/4 chance of hitting a mafia from another house, and a 3/4 chance of hitting a townie. With a total of 7 kp per day, 1 from the town, 3 from each family, we have 1*60%+6*75% effective average townie deaths per day before clues and blue roles. That's 5 deaths a day, giving us a clock of around 6-8 days to kill... 20 mafia? Well, that's not entirely true; we should have 2 mafia killed by that point by fire between the groups, so 18. Say we have 8 days until some form of LyLo situtation, giving us 8 lynches; Even if we succeed every lynch, we're going to have ten mafia still alive. That's impossible. Many of you know its impossible. So what handicaps is town likely to get? Well for one, they have stronger DTs, they probably have substantial kp in vigs and hatters, but they won't amount to the 12 kp hole we have. More to the point; Clues aren't here just for the town; They're for opposing mafia teams as well. If we aren't analysing and picking a few good targets a day, one of the teams will be; ideally we want to be correct about a few of the early ones and have members of the mafia agree so that they shred each other and lower their kp asap. So why exactly are you thinking that day 1 clues wouldn't be a part of the game?
thanks for stealing my thoughts L =(
clues are worth more in this game than in previous games, and so we should pay a little more attention to Day 1 clues than in standard games
(of course, the problem is deciphering the clues)
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On February 14 2010 12:06 Ace wrote:
Ok L, try using that the "40% of people are Mafia argument". It doesn't help. Blindly pointing fingers in the chance you may nab someone is just as bad if it were a game where 20% of the people are Mafia. Stop it. You're wrong.
no, but it forces you to defend yourself and add more to the discussion so we can further analyze your posting
let the accusations begin
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On February 14 2010 12:19 meeple wrote:
so x = mafia 1
y = mafia 2
z = town
z is trying to kill x + y
X is trying to kill y + z
y is trying to kill x + z
Isn't it something more like this?
no, because the victory conditions for X/Y only rely on the other one being completely dead
so Z kill X + Y
X kill Y
Y kill X
as mentioned above
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L, it's 16 mafia, not 18. I agree with your post; I think it's important to think about what kinds of posting/voting dynamics change as a result from a simple two-faction game to a three faction game. The fact alone that having a mafia mayor won't be as terrible as the same situation in a two-faction game should be enough for people to step back and reconsider things.
I'd post with more substance and clarity, but I'm wrecked from prepping for this Chinese New Years' party today.
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On February 14 2010 22:55 Ace wrote:
"let them kill each other off now" - and how do we do that? It's not like we KNOW who they are.
I disagree with so much of you're post. You're first paragraph is blatantly wrong because clues aren't always right. The very fact that you don't even know what automatically constitutes a clue makes you wrong on that too.
We do clue analysis regardless of whether or not it's right, and people step up to defend/criticize... then we analyze their posts in response. The fact that there's such a huge argument between you and L is already very telling.
I suppose it would derail the thread if we picked someone wrong, so my suggestion is thus: can we find any further clues that relate to the electoral candidates?
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I'm starting to agree with BC here... Bill is either bad at posting, or mafia. Or both, because the situation we have right now would happen anyway if he was the latter and did the former. It's simply DUMB for the mafia to put GF as mayor, because it wastes the GF's inherent power.
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Also, why is BM pointing out who could/couldn't be GF right now, when it's a fact that GF is decided before the END of Day 1?
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On February 15 2010 01:13 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2010 01:12 d3_crescentia wrote:
Also, why is BM pointing out who could/couldn't be GF right now, when it's a fact that GF is decided before the END of Day 1? Someone has seen the light
problem: would the mafia be THIS uncoordinated to let BM say shit like this?
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So how do we go about getting bodyguards checked?
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On February 15 2010 12:23 SugiuraMidori wrote:
Has tree.hugger ever made a post, or has it just been his vote for Ace just now?
Don't think so. It'd be with his normal posting pattern, though - he wasn't overactive in the last game.
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On February 15 2010 12:24 SugiuraMidori wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2010 12:22 d3_crescentia wrote:
So how do we go about getting bodyguards checked? Read more... bodyguards check normally, nothing special about them as far as checks.
I'm sorry, maybe I should rephrase - why was the bodyguard check suggested in the first place and/or what kind of benefit do we get from doing it? That's what I'm confused about.
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On February 15 2010 13:03 tree.hugger wrote:
I have a feeling that way to many of these posts, especially the ones from our veterans are tainted by personal feelings. Which is a little disappointing, because only unbiased, in-depth analysis is what is going to win us the game.
And activity of course.
I don't think my last stint as mayor would make me a good choice for the post, but I would suggest that the mayor be someone without the massive ego.
On the contrary, people with massive egos have higher opinions of themselves and are more likely to be driven to WIN out of said egos.
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Only 16 posts for me? Pah. Pathetic.
Question: do town-aligned bodyguards still protect mafia-aligned officials in this game?
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On February 15 2010 13:47 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2010 13:46 Qatol wrote:On February 15 2010 13:44 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
he corrected it so it doesn't count posts before the game started (before the first day post) On February 15 2010 13:45 CynanMachae wrote:
He took out the posts that were made before the game started You mean she! Oooooo
I thought we all knew this already -_-
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I'm abstaining because I'd like to vote for L but haven't had a chance to examine him or the other candidates too closely.
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On February 15 2010 13:57 SugiuraMidori wrote:
I told you why I'm abstaining... they're all hooligans!!
And it gets OLD to see vet players always take mayor pardoner.. what's the freaking point, let some new players learn how to play the game.
Also.. edited the last post to show it in count order, and placed old post in spoiler so it's preserved.
Removed the mods from the counts as well...
We newer players had games before these to learn a bit... some of us did very well; others, not so much =[ Though, I will agree that they're all hooligans.
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On February 15 2010 14:12 QuickStriker wrote:
Hi everyone, I am back.... wow, the last time I remember I posted, I think it was page 24.... how the hell did this game went to page 44 in one day?? My last mafia game stopped and finished at page 44. This is really sad and interesting at the same time....
I seriously honestly don't want to read thru all these 20+ pages I missed.... can someone PLEASE PLEASEEEEEEE make a post of summarization and brief key points from the start of the game to now??? Please????? I really don't want to sit back, and spend an actual 3 hours reading all this when like today, I had places to go and people to do. Thank you. x_x
search through the thread and look at DrH's summary post (except take it with a grain of salt, since he might be some filthy red scum again)
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On February 15 2010 14:18 QuickStriker wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2010 14:16 d3_crescentia wrote:On February 15 2010 14:12 QuickStriker wrote:
Hi everyone, I am back.... wow, the last time I remember I posted, I think it was page 24.... how the hell did this game went to page 44 in one day?? My last mafia game stopped and finished at page 44. This is really sad and interesting at the same time....
I seriously honestly don't want to read thru all these 20+ pages I missed.... can someone PLEASE PLEASEEEEEEE make a post of summarization and brief key points from the start of the game to now??? Please????? I really don't want to sit back, and spend an actual 3 hours reading all this when like today, I had places to go and people to do. Thank you. x_x search through the thread and look at DrH's summary post (except take it with a grain of salt, since he might be some filthy red scum again) Or have his own personal bias-feedback?? Do you know what page # is that?? I mean you're talking me searching thru 45 pages to find one post.... 15 posts per page times 40 pages.... 600 posts...
you could just hit 'All' and Ctrl+F for 'DoctorHelvetica'
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On February 16 2010 01:47 789 wrote:
Redtooth, I'm curious as to why you push L for voting so hard. How can you be sure he is non mafia?
It doesn't matter as much (or at least, not in the same way) as if this were a town v mafia game. Whoever we end up electing will have the same goals - kill more mafia - so the real issue is simply KNOWING whether the mayor is mafia or not and figuring out when the most optimal time to kill him is.
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On February 16 2010 03:34 citi.zen wrote:
It may even be nice to have a mafia elected official, they will have to be very active and generate a long trail f posts to analyze later. In the end I think the game gets interesting once DTs build a circle of trust with grens/blues and we can really get some traction. Provided the DTs don't check mafia 2x nights in a row, or stumble across the GF - which could make life very hard.
More preferable to have a mafia mayor than a pardoner, because the pardoner has that much more power in the late game to cement a mafia lead. We should watch out for this.
I've been trying to wrap my mind around the bodyguard/substitution process for the last day or so, and I think DT checks on bodyguards would help to determine the nature of our officials. I'm still working out the details, though.
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On February 16 2010 06:28 L wrote:
Nikoner, not killing someone day 1 is generally a box of dumb. Even if it makes me look bad, its better to have 100% confirmable information for the town to work with regarding associations and whatnot.
My only fear is that ZERO people have pushed back against my claim against emp, and a number of people have tagged along well after i took pains to make it clear i wasn't dropping the accusation. Either one of the mafia teams is using him as a sacrifice to get, say, ver, to look good by supporting my position, or emp is green/blue and afk like a moron. Given his vote, it would seem that he isn't afk, which leads me to believe that killing him will at least give me some information. I'm actually more worried about how much information regarding clue interpretation for this game I can glean from a red or green flip than anything else.
Like i said; Grow some fucking balls.
L, I'll nibble... only a bit. The clues we have regarding Emp are that his name has links to light, fire and heaven, but it seems to me that "thinking that an angel had saved the town" is more a manner of speech; a being masked by light is not necessarily the same as an angelic being. Consider BloodyCobbler's profile - plenty of blue-ish light in there, and it seems that he was eager to set you up as super-eager to lynch Ace.
I'm curious as to why no one's focusing on the hyena-laughter/psychopathic noises. Madnessman feels pretty red-herring to me, but who else could it be?
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On February 16 2010 06:52 SugiuraMidori wrote:
So why are people voting for Chez all of a sudden? He just acts like a 12yr old kid that has yet to have his balls drop, as L so brilliantly pointed out. He also had 0 votes till now..
I think it's that we know Chez won't win; L doesn't want to support anyone and picks a joke vote, and Bill is an idiot...
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On February 16 2010 07:05 L wrote:
Its not a wasted vote. I'd rather have someone who i'm pretty sure is a DT in office regardless of his posting mannerisms if the alternatives are just as stupid with far less potential for being blue.
But with a little less than two hours left, do you think your vote can actually make a difference?
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On February 16 2010 07:20 L wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 07:18 d3_crescentia wrote:On February 16 2010 07:05 L wrote:
Its not a wasted vote. I'd rather have someone who i'm pretty sure is a DT in office regardless of his posting mannerisms if the alternatives are just as stupid with far less potential for being blue. But with a little less than two hours left, do you think your vote can actually make a difference? Instead of asking me incredibly stupid questions, why don't you think on your own for 3 seconds? Yeah, no shit I think it makes a difference, otherwise I wouldn't have voted.
Well, that certainly puts everything into a whole new perspective for me. I appreciate your honestly.
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On February 16 2010 08:39 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 08:21 Ace wrote:On February 16 2010 08:21 L wrote:On February 16 2010 08:19 redtooth wrote:
god damn it i said don't worry about chezinu L. I'm not worried about him. I'm worried about YOU. and I'm worried about YOU. "Mutual Chainsaw Defense, where two players defend each other by attacking each others' attackers. This is a major scumtell,"
so you read a wiki and suddenly decide you're the king of analysis?
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On February 16 2010 09:33 Bill Murray wrote:
I honestly have been suspicious of d3_crescentia, regardless of people telling me that my analysis of the moon in his signature is a red herring... 5 mentions of the moon or moonlight are too many for me to ignore...
I say this for 2 reasons:
First, assume he is mafia. He would then defend ace/redtooth who are obviously already mutually defending each other until it was pointed out when redtooth decided that his best course of action would be to roleclaim as opposed to defending ace.
second, assume he is an idiot townie: he would be mad at me for my spamming the thread, and for lumping him in with bloodycobbler, ace, mystlord, etc. with my analysis
final analysis: I do not think redtooth is mafia, but I DEFINITELY HAVE BEEN WRONG IN THE PAST LOL U KNOW FROM EXPERIENCE. I feel that d3_crescentia fell into a trap by this, and I'm pretty sure someone else agrees with me too. I feel like d3_crescentia is trying to defend ace, and they they are both mafia from the same family.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
no.
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On February 16 2010 09:45 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 09:43 d3_crescentia wrote:On February 16 2010 09:33 Bill Murray wrote:
I honestly have been suspicious of d3_crescentia, regardless of people telling me that my analysis of the moon in his signature is a red herring... 5 mentions of the moon or moonlight are too many for me to ignore...
I say this for 2 reasons:
First, assume he is mafia. He would then defend ace/redtooth who are obviously already mutually defending each other until it was pointed out when redtooth decided that his best course of action would be to roleclaim as opposed to defending ace.
second, assume he is an idiot townie: he would be mad at me for my spamming the thread, and for lumping him in with bloodycobbler, ace, mystlord, etc. with my analysis
final analysis: I do not think redtooth is mafia, but I DEFINITELY HAVE BEEN WRONG IN THE PAST LOL U KNOW FROM EXPERIENCE. I feel that d3_crescentia fell into a trap by this, and I'm pretty sure someone else agrees with me too. I feel like d3_crescentia is trying to defend ace, and they they are both mafia from the same family.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA no. no on what? it's one or the other, and you aren't as strong of a player as ace so you cant just be like "im ace i have bodyarmor u cant kill me" like ace does because he knows that nothing will stick to him. i really do think you are mafia, though.
because I've done none of the above. have I defended ace or redtooth at all this game? perhaps it would serve you to count the number of posts I've made that haven't been attempting to be exceedingly neutral and attempt to contribute something other than pointless name-calling. well, screw that.
and, scratch that - I have been pissed off at you, and it is because you spam the thread with analysis - but only because it's bad.
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Fulgrim, quality posts take time and effort to construct. I'm not as fast of a typist or as streamlined of a thinker as some of these other people are, so I haven't been able to type out something that's significant and relevant when we're going as fast as 20 pages a day. On top of that, most of our vets are doing the same thing they've been doing for the past several games (i.e. accusing each other), so I find myself unable to participate in such discussions. As for clue analysis, I'm of the opinion that the Day 1 clues weren't any stronger or weaker than previous games... and so having learned my lesson from last game I wasn't going to buy into it as strongly as I did this game.
Zato, in reference to this post:
Imagine that I'm a mafia member from the Gambino family. I know that neither the mayor or the pardoner are from my ranks, and we have no infiltrated bodyguards. Since my family's goal is to kill all members of the Sumiyoshi family, this includes potentially killing the mayor / pardoner, because there's a good chance at least one of them is from the other family. Because they will be immune to hits due to bodyguards, getting the list of bodyguards will be quite valuable and possibly well worth the trade.
I think there's a problem with this line of thinking. The mafia (S) are going to have to spend 4 KP to get themselves rid of the bodyguards before they can get rid of the officials... but that's going to take two nights of potentially wasted KP while the other family is free to strike; or one night if the other mafia decides to substitute their two guys. I *doubt* that the (G) who are in control of the office will want to substitute any guys, because it only makes them more vulnerable if such a list is leaked.
If the (S) decides to substitute and while the Mayor is (G), then it will obviously make the Mayor/Pardoner more vulnerable to attack after the two town BGs have been killed or lynched, though this would be suspicious for the (S)-aligned BGs as well after two of their comrades have died. If such a substitution is made, then likely we won't be seeing any BGs die until later in the game... but then, it's still possible to find a mafia.
I think the BG list should be made public. The DTs can check them, and the mafia can choose to waste their KP on them, if they so choose. Killing 2-4 people just to get to 1 seems awfully inefficient.
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What do you think about publicly releasing the BG list?
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On February 16 2010 12:32 Malongo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 09:50 Ace wrote:
My vote was on redtooth. He claimed Medic. Thats why I took it away. Then I thought about his motive for lying at that point in time and it really didn't matter because Ver wasn't here anyway. So me switching my vote back within a few minutes changed nothing. There's no suspicion there.
Maybe you should bother questioning the people that pushed him from Pardoner -> Mayor. Pardoner is more powerful than Mayor anyway. I disagree here Ace. From mafia pov its direct that knowing all the bgs-> confirmed townies or at least few chances of mafia from the other family + 3 votes is huge. Think about this: this game is more likely to go until 20 players remain unless one family is absolutely demolishing the other. In this case having a mafia having 3 votes and clearing up the targets with the bgs list is lot better than 2 pardons overall. Having a mafia mayor is a huge advantage against the other mafia, having a pardoner *may* save one of your foes but its not like the other mafia cant target him anyways next night. As you see pardoner <<<< mayor for a mafia player. So the point is, what is redtooth going to do about his claim¿ The best way to set this up is : Redtooth self claimed medic declares his target for protection before the night. This way the other family /assuming redtooth is mafia/ has the chance to hit that target and unreveal redtooth. It is win for that family because then they force the town to lynch him if he turns nonmedic, and it is win for that family in case the target survives because they can play knowing that redtooth is not in the other mafia. Thoughts¿
Problem with this is if the declared target is in the same family as those that'll be targeting him - unless they're willing to sacrifice him.
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On February 16 2010 12:41 Malongo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 12:36 d3_crescentia wrote:On February 16 2010 12:32 Malongo wrote:On February 16 2010 09:50 Ace wrote:
My vote was on redtooth. He claimed Medic. Thats why I took it away. Then I thought about his motive for lying at that point in time and it really didn't matter because Ver wasn't here anyway. So me switching my vote back within a few minutes changed nothing. There's no suspicion there.
Maybe you should bother questioning the people that pushed him from Pardoner -> Mayor. Pardoner is more powerful than Mayor anyway. I disagree here Ace. From mafia pov its direct that knowing all the bgs-> confirmed townies or at least few chances of mafia from the other family + 3 votes is huge. Think about this: this game is more likely to go until 20 players remain unless one family is absolutely demolishing the other. In this case having a mafia having 3 votes and clearing up the targets with the bgs list is lot better than 2 pardons overall. Having a mafia mayor is a huge advantage against the other mafia, having a pardoner *may* save one of your foes but its not like the other mafia cant target him anyways next night. As you see pardoner <<<< mayor for a mafia player. So the point is, what is redtooth going to do about his claim¿ The best way to set this up is : Redtooth self claimed medic declares his target for protection before the night. This way the other family /assuming redtooth is mafia/ has the chance to hit that target and unreveal redtooth. It is win for that family because then they force the town to lynch him if he turns nonmedic, and it is win for that family in case the target survives because they can play knowing that redtooth is not in the other mafia. Thoughts¿ Problem with this is if the declared target is in the same family as those that'll be targeting him - unless they're willing to sacrifice him. Ok. Then we force redtooth to protect a target from the town: me. As you see i cant not be in Redtooths family /if im mafia and so is him/ because that would be stupid. I cant be on the others family IM ASKING TO GET HIT and protected. What about that¿ if redtooth claims protection on me and he should be because that way he can prove himself then i will live. /unless there are stacked hits on me wish will be noted in the number of deaths/ If i die redtooth is mafia. THOUGHTS¿¿¿¿
I think this might actually work.
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On second thought, the problem would be if the mafia decided to entirely sidestep this plan. Hmm.
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On February 16 2010 13:06 Mystlord wrote:
I don't think the plan would work since I highly doubt the mafia would waste a hit like that. Remember that the other mafia family has 3 hits and each of them are going to be aimed at a potential mafia. Why would one mafia family waste a hit so early in the game?
Because they have nothing to lose either... it's in the mid-game where they can't waste hits. Do they know who else, amongst the 40 people that have been listed, could be mafia? I sincerely doubt that they have more than 2-3 guesses, and even then it's likely that at least one will turn up green.
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On February 16 2010 13:23 789 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 13:17 Malongo wrote:On February 16 2010 13:12 789 wrote:On February 16 2010 13:03 Malongo wrote:On February 16 2010 12:54 789 wrote:
Malongo, your plan hinges on everyone going along with it and honestly participating. I mean say redtooth goes along with it ... why would a mafia family sacrifice a hit that may be blocked. Or say in the case that redtooth actually is a medic (yeah no, but let's just say) and BOTH mafia families hit you. It makes redtooth look like a lier. In a perfect world it is a good idea ... but it won't work in a practical application. A Supposing a mafia family suspects redtooth is mafia the will asap hit me to clear him. Its 3 votes + a protected role. They only lose a hit and prove redtooth, wich is useless because bg list is more likely infiltrated. Believe me the other family is liking his chops at this idea. B If hits stack¿ lol if hits stack i die and nothing else happens, redtooth isnt cleared and we have more gamble beetween families. Why wont work¿ i still dont see how can be bad for the town. Worst case scenario: mafia doesnt hit me and redtooth loses a protection that cant be directed to a town townie anyways. We have absolutely nothing to lose. I still don't see why the mafia would be licking their chops to cooperate. If they wanted to get rid of him they could act like townies and get him lynched. Why would they take a path that potentially wastes a hit and could potentially help the town greatly by giving them a trusted person to organize behind. Sure they know who a medic is if they want to target him - but I would think at least one of the BGs is still town aligned and he'd be protected. If they want to take him out there are other lower risk ways to do it and they wouldn't want to clear him. Mafia has to kill the other mafia to win. Having a guy that is likely to be part of one of the mafias in the mayor spot is clearly a big disadvantage to start with. Sure RT *may* prove himself. Then what¿ trusted BG list¿ he asks all the blues to pm him¿ he asks everyplayer to pm him his role¿ with 20 mafia in the game¿ Think about that for a minute. You bypassed my main point. Why would one of the mafia families risk a hit or helping the town when they could attempt a lynch play to take down redtooth.
Because the point isn't to lynch redtooth. Redtooth flipping red/blue will give both the town AND the mafia some information - information they wouldn't be able to get by slogging through another 48 hours of day posts attempting to convince people otherwise.
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On February 17 2010 08:43 Bill Murray wrote:
without detectives all we have are behavioral analysis and voting patterns, right?
i don't see why a detective would roleclaim, they would get killed so fast, see: the last game i played
Ugh, because the mafia want to kill other mafia, not the town. As long as the DT can be swayed by one family they will have an edge over the other one. And because the town wants to find and kill all mafia, they 1) use medics to protect DT and 2) carefully watch who else is feeding DT information.
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On February 17 2010 08:51 Faronel wrote:
No... detectives claiming is safe. If they claim, then they can be covered by medics. While if they don't claim, they can get hit, and we will never know what the DT knew.
Althought... personally DT should have some tidbit of vital information before claiming.
Also, this is kind of important, do we know how many DT's we have in total, as this makes it much easier?
No, we don't.
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On February 17 2010 08:52 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2010 08:50 d3_crescentia wrote:On February 17 2010 08:43 Bill Murray wrote:
without detectives all we have are behavioral analysis and voting patterns, right?
i don't see why a detective would roleclaim, they would get killed so fast, see: the last game i played Ugh, because the mafia want to kill other mafia, not the town. As long as the DT can be swayed by one family they will have an edge over the other one. And because the town wants to find and kill all mafia, they 1) use medics to protect DT and 2) carefully watch who else is feeding DT information. THEY? you speak like you're not a townie.
I hope I die just so I can be another proof of how wrong you are. =]
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I KNEW SUGIURA WAS MAFIA!
Also, unsurprised at DrH. Man what happened to all the posting?
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HAHAHA
poor redtooth
poor poor redtooth
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woo gg; time to go look at my day 1 notes and see who I got right =P
I knew SugoiraMidori and L were in cahoots with each other! and I had suspicions on tredmasta, DrH, and Foolishness as well
hope I don't die too early next time~
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EPT
