TL Mafia XVIII
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
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Bill Murray
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i also added a profile for this, assuming my bad manner from the last game doesn't inhibit my ability to play in this one, and try to make a good name for myself among the mafia playing TL.net community. | ||
Bill Murray
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![]() i want to play in this so bad | ||
Bill Murray
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genovese_crime_family definitely Genovese. double edit: they're allied to the gambino's, but i'm sure u can think of a creative story in relation to the seperation | ||
Bill Murray
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when we get 50 people? ![]() i'd actually say that the day and a half it will take to get +6 plus a few hours of plot and role-giving ... i'd say february 13th at 9pm | ||
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Bill Murray
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I am promising guaranteed liberty, equality, and power. If I am elected, I will go with the majority, because I trust people will make the right decision overall and at least two groups of ten will be working for a separate goal. That leaves the remaining 31 to try and work to eliminate these groups in the correct numbers... this is deceptively hard. You can indirectly cause one Mafia to win if you offset their numbers inappropriately. The Pardoner could win the game for the town be pardoning a mafia member that is from a group that has less mafia than the other group. I doubt many of you will vote for me, but to be honest this is a mistake. Please vote for me if you want to save the town. | ||
Bill Murray
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my "quote" below when i post is at the end of "Helter Skelter", a song by the Beatles. The poem in my profile is from Robert Frost. The picture is of the band Primus. Remember to vote for me for mayor, folks. We need to be careful and eliminate the mafia PROPERLY | ||
Bill Murray
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Bill Murray
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My plan is to follow the majority. I will make no decisions unless it is through the active town (I hope most of the town is active). | ||
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Bill Murray
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the only problem here is there seem to be multiple groups L Chezinu redtooth laaan zato-1 bloodycobbler ver L Mystlord fulgrim in my opinion are mafia, possibly not all in the same mafia, but that's my guess i also think that bloodycobbler is the other mafia godfather | ||
Bill Murray
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i meant to put VER as he had a highly suspicious PM to me roleclaiming already | ||
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On February 14 2010 20:14 Ver wrote: 1) Bill Murray is looking very innocent to me, based on his reaction. It's the same type of scenario that those who played in Incognito's game saw with t_co, who ended up townie. . ver, sorry i ever doubted you | ||
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Bill Murray
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i said BC was the other godfather imo, but i have no clues as to who is in that group, which is also why i said that im not sure if those 10 are all together, just that they seem to be rather sketchy to me. if you all want to lynch me that's fine, but i'll flip town. | ||
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Bill Murray
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i really just hope im not the miller, tbh. | ||
Bill Murray
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if anyone has any questions for me feel free to PM me. i'm not going to PM this game, but i'll make an exception for that for any PM i get in between when i go to bed and when i wake up. | ||
Bill Murray
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Bill Murray
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if you think i am mafia, you are a fucking idiot. | ||
Bill Murray
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if i was mafia, i would have people i KNEW i could talk to, so i would ask them how to post/who to vote for/when to wipe my own ass. i would also not have posted on here AT ALL unless they told me that it's ok. i would have been lurking in the shadows. as it is, i've cast myself in an unfavorable light. do you think that the mafia would really do this? no, they wouldn't. this is why that if you think i'm actually mafia or a good lynch target you aren't a strong player. i'm NOT saying i'm a strong player, but the fact that i realize this and someone voting for me doesn't would make them an even weaker player than i am. It would be much more advisable to me to lynch someone who is lurking in the shadows.... perhaps someone who hasn't posted in the thread a whole lot but is active in other topics. | ||
Bill Murray
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Bill Murray
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Bill Murray
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i would have listed 20 people but i feel like 9 or 10 are lurking | ||
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Bill Murray
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On February 15 2010 07:07 meeple wrote: I'm not convinced that BM is red... if you saw how he played the last game he was in, he's probably just really bad at playing. I'm still sort of leaning towards Ace, both because of the seeming clue connection and because his defense was ridiculously over the top. this is why i voted for meeple before i switched it to ver both are very good candidates in terms of intelligence players like chezinu, redtooth dont see the bigger picture... players like L and Ace are a bit too egocentric to really do well objectively for the town. i'm done defending myself. you know why? because if you lynch me that is guaranteed to leave every blue role still alive. i would rather you all lynch an innocent, idiot townie/miller than to lynch someone like ace who is say... a mad hatter | ||
Bill Murray
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Bill Murray
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go ahead and waste your lynch on me, and when i flip green or black, i will feel comforted by the fact that all the blues will still have a chance to use their powers. | ||
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On February 15 2010 08:38 DoctorHelvetica wrote: That wasn't even an attack on you. You are being really defensive and honestly you're acting like a child. you're the one personally attacking me here, is that not childish? you are concerning yourself with minute details from my posts... is that not pedantic? you, sir, are being childish and pedantic. | ||
Bill Murray
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i guess you all don't watch that show ![]() DH, you want me to list why i posted the people i posted? | ||
Bill Murray
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Chezinu - voting history, erratic behavior, seems to know more than a normal townie should redtooth - blindly supports L, take it back, supports him again, backlashes for my lynching laaan - voting for L, being too lazy to do anything to help the town, zato-1 - wanting to get rid of ace for no apparent reason bloodycobbler - as per previous analysis regarding posting behavior ver - was probably a mistake, but because he ROLECLAIMEDto me in PM L - wanting to get rid of ace for no apparent reason Mystlord - seems to be acting the same way from last game i'd like to eliminate fulgrim from this list. also, what's citi.zen been doing? he's been a lot less inactive than last game. i wouldn't be too worried about this if he didn't have so many votes. | ||
Bill Murray
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i know a normal town should not be trying to take up the focus of the game, so please just forget about me and worry about finding out who is mafia. from now on i am not going to post at all, i am going to be analyzing clues, and i will only post when i feel that the clues add up to point directly towards someone. | ||
Bill Murray
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On February 15 2010 10:11 meeple wrote: I listen to Tom Waits... if that dude doesn't put you in a sombre mood that's good for thinking, then nothing will. i know i promised not to post until i had analysis, which i will be coming out with in my next post, but i have to say that i'm going to go look up the piano has been drinking right now | ||
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On February 15 2010 08:58 Bill Murray wrote: also, what's citi.zen been doing? he's been a lot less inactive than last game. i wouldn't be too worried about this if he didn't have so many votes. I have been reading through past mafia games, and based upon past game behavior in relation to this game my list has been changed. i am going to be cross referencing past posts of games to this game, but this will take me awhile. i am going to start now, and i figured i would let you all know what i am doing | ||
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Bill Murray
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He was nice as can be in the last thread at first, not really pointing too many fingers, and was trying to win the hearts of the townies when he was mafia. It's like the saying that you "catch flies with honey". This time, he is being nearly as bad mannered and abrasive as I am, and that is completely different from his behavior when he was mafia. I am not a great player myself, as this is my second game, but i really really really don't think he is red this time. | ||
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Bill Murray
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he is right that the town has more options on protecting blue roles and survival in relation to the mafia's hits, because they will be wanting to abuse our detectives to ween information (possibly), and mainly because they will be trying to win by killing each other (rival factions) while this does give us an advantage in regards to mafia not publicly roleclaiming DT, the DT being more generally trusted, and an easier setup for medic protection... we are still left with the task of ferreting out who is in what mafia which could be hard but hopefully we will be able to analyze who is defending who and voting patterns from day1/2 | ||
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On February 15 2010 11:43 meeple wrote: You don't think some greens can fall into that trap too? .. how do you KNOW he's green? seems mafia to me. you have information you care to share? | ||
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On February 15 2010 11:51 meeple wrote: I said some greens... I was actually talking about me. Since I suspected Ace in the beginning too... and I don't think I was alone in that. ok, sorry for jumping the gun. | ||
Bill Murray
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On February 15 2010 11:55 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I don't see how "L and Ace always argue" is a defensive point. So because they argue all the time we shouldn't pay any attention? Is there something I'm missing here? it's like when someone sees two dogs fighting, and they spazz out, but the dogs are really playing with each other. that's what you did. i did it too, at first, but i realized they were playing eventually (i had to read that section again) | ||
Bill Murray
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Bill Murray
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Bill Murray
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WHY ZATO? | ||
Bill Murray
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On February 15 2010 12:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote: see how he's saying their arguments are relevant and shouldn't be ignored billmurray? i see that, but you see how he's still poking at him in relation to the "trap" half-heartedly? | ||
Bill Murray
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By saying that Ace is red if BM is red, when BM is obviously green, Redtooth is creating an arbitrary defence for Ace, as well as wasting a lynch on killing a townie that will not give us any useful information - i agree with using a fact and lying to make the lie more believable, but how did you come to the conclusion that i was green?I was considering voting for citizen - why? he is behaving completely differently this game compared with the last game... he is scheming and lurking in the shadows. | ||
Bill Murray
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Ace, would you agree to dying if DoctorH flips green? | ||
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On February 15 2010 13:03 tree.hugger wrote: I have a feeling that way to many of these posts, especially the ones from our veterans are tainted by personal feelings. Which is a little disappointing, because only unbiased, in-depth analysis is what is going to win us the game. And activity of course. I don't think my last stint as mayor would make me a good choice for the post, but I would suggest that the mayor be someone without the massive ego. He doesn't even WANT to be mayor. I nominate tree.hugger for mayor, because the best person with the power is someone who doesn't want to use it. | ||
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Bill Murray
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it's like voting for ralph nader + Show Spoiler + because of his wing tipped sideburns. | ||
Bill Murray
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On February 15 2010 14:10 johnnyspazz wrote: i can safely say i barely learned anything from my last game lol | ||
Bill Murray
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Bill Murray
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Bill Murray
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i promise you guys that i will try to network for the town. if you are a town member looking for someone to trust, i promise you that you can trust me. if you pm me that you're town i have noone else to tell... because being a poor green you have noone to trust. i know this. i would originally think that being elected would protect me personally, but in fact it would actually put a huge target on my green head. i don't mind this. i am willing to be a martyr for you all for us to actually win this game. we have to be very careful with who our medics protect, and when, and if you look back on past games sometimes medics will protect the same person when it is not needed or not advisable. it would also be nice if we could coordinate who to bomb and when... we need to get a good foundation !!!!! Really, guys! I love you all, I love Team Liquid, and I love this mafia game. Let's, as a town, share the love and eliminate these red threats. Come, chezinu, come ver, come ace, come out from hiding citi.zen let's win. whoever is green... really. i don't want this to be another win for these mafias... if we lose, let it be by eliminating TOO MANY OF THEM rather than NOT ENOUGH. | ||
Bill Murray
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Clue analysis will only work to a point. Sun Tzu says that that knowing the enemy is half the battle. You will only win half of the battles when you don't see everything. We need to know who is the town, who is in mafia A, and who is in mafia B. IF YOU VOTE FOR ME, YOU WILL BE VOTING FOR LIBERTY, EQUALITY, AND POWER OF THE TOWN! | ||
Bill Murray
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Sugiura, any way to make that count only count posts greater than 4 lines? Honestly I'm considering just spamming a bunch of one line posts to get my count up there before someone comes in and says I'm mafia cause I've only posted 4 times. LOL | ||
Bill Murray
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Bill Murray
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I'M GREEN. If I was mafia, I wouldn't say anything about it at all. Anyways, as I don't lie, please vote for me for Mayor/Pardoner. I promise I will try to use these positions to the best of my ability. I will attempt to create a Town Win. Hook it up, please, folks. | ||
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REDTOOTH IS MAFIA he hates to see that. | ||
Bill Murray
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ok that was retarded was it, redtooth? | ||
Bill Murray
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If Ace is red he's as good as dead, it's just his play-style. | ||
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Bill Murray
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![]() I'm also providing a town aligned mayoral candidate, that's more than I can say you're doing with 100% conviction. | ||
Bill Murray
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On February 15 2010 15:31 Zato-1 wrote: Game theory. When you have dynamic decision-making, in which the outcome of my decisions depends upon the decisions you take, the correct way to approach the problem is to determine your optimal course of action first, and once I know what you're going to do and therefore the payoff of each of my own choices, only then do I start looking at what is the optimal course of action for myself. Sorry for the completely off-topic post, but I actually love game theory. Prisoner's dilemma and all that shiz- the very same reasoning that brought me to the conclusion, many pages ago, that mafia will mostly be lurking, so we should focus less on the really active players and more on those who are making shitty, short and content-free posts, and also on those who aren't posting at all. the first thing you've said that would convince me to trust you. i'm not going to trust anyone, as mayor, though. i'm going to trust everyone if i trust everyone, i'm trusting 30 townies and 20 mafia. ![]() | ||
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On February 15 2010 14:33 Bill Murray wrote: that being said, please vote for me. i promise you guys that i will try to network for the town. if you are a town member looking for someone to trust, i promise you that you can trust me. if you pm me that you're town i have noone else to tell... because being a poor green you have noone to trust. i know this. i would originally think that being elected would protect me personally, but in fact it would actually put a huge target on my green head. i don't mind this. i am willing to be a martyr for you all for us to actually win this game. we have to be very careful with who our medics protect, and when, and if you look back on past games sometimes medics will protect the same person when it is not needed or not advisable. it would also be nice if we could coordinate who to bomb and when... we need to get a good foundation !!!!! Really, guys! I love you all, I love Team Liquid, and I love this mafia game. Let's, as a town, share the love and eliminate these red threats. Come, chezinu, come ver, come ace, come out from hiding citi.zen let's win. whoever is green... really. i don't want this to be another win for these mafias... if we lose, let it be by eliminating TOO MANY OF THEM rather than NOT ENOUGH. and then citi.zen comes out of hiding less than 10 minutes later. ![]() | ||
Bill Murray
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I WOULD RUN FOR MAYOR AND TRY TO UNITE THE TOWN! I hate losing. LETS WIN. | ||
Bill Murray
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Bloodyc0bbler the blue light reference? 789 the horseman? Ace silhouetted by the moon? Any 3 could possible fit, but that's only something to keep in mind. What we need to discuss now is who is going to win the mayoral election. Who can you be sure of is town aligned? I am laying down my reputation of HONESTY to say that I am GREEN How can you be sure of this? BECAUSE I DO NOT LIE. Vote for Liberty, Equality, and Power. Vote Bill Murray. | ||
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this vote is split in too many ways. the town needs to consolidate itself under me. | ||
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Has anyone else noticed that ? | ||
Bill Murray
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Bill Murray is the safest option to be in office as he is the most likely to be on the townside. I am the only person that I am 100% sure is town. I will be going to bed shortly, had a fun night with this. In relation to the clues, I'd like to continue to press that d3_crescentia (although possibly a red herring like DoctorH said), Bloodyc0bbler, 789, Ace are the only people who have solidly fit the clues from my perspective. I would advise people not to vote based upon player habits, but on who you feel is most likely going to be town-aligned. we need at least one town-aligned player in office. | ||
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On February 15 2010 06:53 redtooth wrote: + Show Spoiler + enough of this. time to get the ball rolling. please prepare for content because... I AM ANNOUNCING MY CANDIDACY FOR MAYOR ![]() PLATFORM I am running for mayor. Some of you may know that I never run for any position regardless of my role, the reasons being similar to the ones Ver listed. However, I am willing to invest enough energy and effort to lead the town to victory. I have participated in enough mafia games and have developed an adequate understanding of the game. My play so far has demonstrated that I am capable of the high level thinking required for mayor of the town. Also, I am a Decision Science major at Carnegie Mellon. I play mafia for a living. THE OTHER CANDIDATES All of the other veterans running thus far (Ace, BC, L) have too much suspicion surrounding them to be good mayor candidates. Some of the other candidates are either jokes (Chezinu, MasterDana, l10f), or unproven so far in the game (meeple, DrH, citizen). Electing Ver after how the early portion of the elections played out earlier is very very dangerous. I stated earlier that we should not vote for Ver but refrained from explicitly laying out the reasons why. Now that he has outright declared his candidacy, I guess it's time to share my thought process. Quoting an earlier PM I sent to someone: 2/14 16:21 Ver has, knowingly or unknowingly, taken advantage of the opportunity and halfheartedly declared his candidacy. This is the exact position we wanted to avoid. Before I was planning on running for Mayor, I requested that he withdraw his candidacy but I think just explaining the reasons in public should be enough to show that electing him as mayor is unwise.logically it would make sense not to give Ver the "option" to step in and win the election. each mafia family will likely send out one mayor candidate and that makes elections hard enough. that's why we scrutinize the list of mayor candidates so thoroughly. if we give Ver the "option" of becoming mayor, he isn't scrutinized as much and when pressed on the idea that mafia families would push a member to candidacy he could say that he was "forced" into the position. or if a member of the same mafia family would be runner up in the votes then he could just step aside and use that fact later as defense. now were he to have outright declared candidacy in the first place i wouldn't have minded voting for him. actually i probably would have voted for him. but that thought process would have been much different. he seems like such an attractive candidate now because he's smart and wasn't involved in any of the mess. PRE-EMPTIVE DEFENSE Some may be suspicious of me due to my somewhat passionate defense of Ace. As stated before, I have a high degree of respect for Ace and did not want to kill him off due to what I perceived as clue analysis on red herrings. I also don't believe any of the veterans should be killed to "gain interesting insight into how Incognito's clues are going to work" (quoted from [NyC]HoBbes). My late entry into mayoral race shouldn't be regarded with too much suspicion either. Nobody expected the mayor candidates to be caught up in so much shit. I wasn't voted for prior to my announcement so my argument against Ver's candidacy doesn't apply to me. LYNCH CANDIDATE If elected mayor, I plan on lynching Bill Murray. There are obvious reasons (noted by Chezinu in a previous post) why we should be suspicious of him but there is much more to gain from lynching BM. So far he has presented himself as either a bad mafia or an idiot townie. Of course there is a chance that he flips green when mayor lynched and we waste a lynch but we get rid of a player that has a history of being detrimental to the town and isn't too valuable an asset to the town if he is indeed green. However, in the case that he flips red, we are provided with a wealth of information via the list that he posted. So far Bill has yet to post a legitimate defense, choosing instead to make a string of five or so posts that amounts to a desperate strike back at those that accused him. This makes him highly suspicious in my book. I am planning on checking over his behavior in the last game he played but FUTURE PLANS To kill the mafia of course. We have to use our lynches to maximum efficiency and somehow get the DTs to broadcast their information without revealing their identity. Later on in the game, clue analysis should be more abundant than ever before because all players (mafia and town-aligned) benefit from the analysis. If Bill Murray flips red then the focus should immediately shift to the list he posted. The most notable oddity in the list was the absence of Ace despite the mountain of suspicion surrounding him. Please also remember that I was on the list. If anything, it would make sense that either both of us are on the list (a mafia defending a fellow mafia), neither of us are on the list (a townie defending a fellow townie), or Ace is on but I'm not (a mistaken townie risking his neck to defend a mafia). It doesn't make sense that I am on the list but Ace is not (a mafia defending a random townie). Please note that my attempt to lynch Bill Murray isn't out of anger towards him due to my name being on the list. So as of now I would place Ace in the same 'group' as Bill Murray. Though I fought hard to defend Ace thus far, he is far from exonerated and L's clue analysis is as solid as you can possibly get with only Day 1 clues. That means, depending on what color Bill flips, Ace becomes highly suspicious once more. Having said all that I feel that we should keep all the veterans alive as long as possible. They are capable of identifying mafia and (whether its through clue analysis or behavior analysis) call out individuals to lynch. Why is this beneficial for the town? Well as I stated earlier, town can't win if mafia takes out town first but at the same time a mafia family can't win unless they kill off the other mafia family. To identify and call out a mafia member in public would mean either the town or the opposing mafia family can kill that person off. Also, anyone who's been mafia before would know that killing off a veteran mafia member doesn't really get rid of their influence (due to reasons I don't want to state publicly). tl;dr You shouldn't vote for other mayor candidates due to various reasons. Vote for me. I am reasonable, logical, and have basic plans with more in the making. Most importantly, I am innocent. Thank you for your time. if you and I are the only candidates, why were you pushing for my lynch? | ||
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On February 15 2010 19:42 redtooth wrote: how is it logical to vote for anyone other than me and BM? seriously. not exactly the only candidates, but the only ones worth voting for? to me, i am, because i will flip green or black. | ||
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onto ver, he has been trying to manipulate me from the start of the game: "As I said my primary goal with voting is to make sure citizen does not get elected (extremely shady platform, votes from nowhere etc). I believe redtooth has a better likelihood of beating citizen than you do " I'd like to see some evidence as to why you're worried about citi.zen, Ver. | ||
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by "spamming the thread" with my campaign for office, and responding to people, I was simply trying to provide that to the town. Someone who is going to try to give a way for greens and blues to come together to actually try and discuss a common goal and how to achieve it. | ||
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On February 16 2010 06:30 DoctorHelvetica wrote: It does seem strange to me that there was a big backlash at a strong clue connection to Ace but everyone accepted Empyrean rather quietly. However, do consider the fact that there isn't really any herrings in the description of the radiant killer that point to anyone else. Empyrean simply fits. While Ace fits strongly, it was pointed out that 789 actually fits the clue profile very well also, so there is a bit more room for doubt. How about the backlash against redtooth and then the fifteen votes he's gotten in a row? | ||
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We can't just blindly post lists of confirmed mafia Wouldn't they be possibly doing this through their voting habits which could lead to us not being able to prevent a stronger mafia from lynching someone if we've lost some medics/don't know who to protect. what i mean is that their voting for mayor may end up clumping them together if they're dumb. | ||
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On February 16 2010 06:32 DoctorHelvetica wrote: What does that mean? How does spamming the thread provide a way for everyone to work together in peace? You aren't playing this game. All of your posts were empty accusations and finger pointing with no justification until I pestered it out of you. Saying "this person is mafia" is perfectly fine if you can support that with reason and argument. "I know I am green" doesn't make anyone trust you. when i was "spamming the thread" the way you're talking, by idiotically pointing my finger, noone was complaining. I was referring to last night around 5am EST. | ||
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On February 16 2010 06:37 Nikoner wrote: Fair enough, but I'm wary of the possibility that lynching a mafia will lower one family's KP. If that situation persists for a decent amount of time, it could be bad for the town. I'd also like to point out that if Empyrean flips green, you really don't have that much regarding associations to work with. Neither you do if he flips red, to be honest, seeing as he hasn't posted much, unless I've missed something. I'm not really wanting to talk a whole lot about game theory, as I feel that it sort of takes away from the town, but to nearly eliminate one mafia would not be detrimental if we had our medics still alive and could protect their remaining members (assuming we have 3 medics as someone said...) | ||
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there are ways to win. | ||
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I am very happy to see L and Redtooth not getting along, but they both seem to be getting along with Ver. Ver even said to me that he was voting for redtooth because he trusts him the most, but that if he had a second vote he would vote for me.... I just don't know. It seems like a load of shit to me. The town needn't trust anyone so blindly | ||
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I don't expect you all to run and vote for me, although that would provide me comfort that we have a green in office, but it would be nice if we could actually try to get someone from the town in office... | ||
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This is called the bodyguard or mutual chainsaw defense isnt it? when you attack someone who is attacking the person you are allied to.. regardless of what it's called, I read that it's a mafia tell. If I am elected, I am going to lynch ACE | ||
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On February 16 2010 08:32 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: sometimes i wonder if you're reading the same thread as everyone else no, but I have pms that you don't. | ||
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"Mutual Chainsaw Defense, where two players defend each other by attacking each others' attackers. This is a major scumtell," | ||
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On February 16 2010 08:32 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: sometimes i wonder if you're reading the same thread as everyone else you were threatened of being modkilled just 40 minutes ago, while i have been one of the most active posters in this thread in terms of activity. (although I will admit not all of my activity has been 100% beneficial to the town and I apologize for that) | ||
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On February 16 2010 08:45 redtooth wrote: actually don't know if this is a terrible play or not. hope it doesn't make you guys trust me any less than you already do... buuuuut: i'm medic. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() and Ace could you stop associating yourself with me? it keeps making me look guilty. you guys want someone who is roleclaiming day 1 into office? | ||
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yo lay off the namecalling dude | ||
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On February 16 2010 09:03 Empyrean wrote: No problem. I'll turn up town and then I suppose people'll analyze behavior from there. EDIT: Watch out for Bill Murray too, though :O you're not allowed to edit, brosef addai | ||
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On February 16 2010 09:18 789 wrote: Actually .. go read it again that was t_co's logic. My logic was that there was no way possible t_co and doctorH were both mafia. Remind me how that turned out again. oh, sorry. I was fairly certain meeple wasn't mafia, which is why i voted for him in that game. Maybe you should have voted for meeple with me. | ||
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I say this for 2 reasons: First, assume he is mafia. He would then defend ace/redtooth who are obviously already mutually defending each other until it was pointed out when redtooth decided that his best course of action would be to roleclaim as opposed to defending ace. second, assume he is an idiot townie: he would be mad at me for my spamming the thread, and for lumping him in with bloodycobbler, ace, mystlord, etc. with my analysis final analysis: I do not think redtooth is mafia, but I DEFINITELY HAVE BEEN WRONG IN THE PAST LOL U KNOW FROM EXPERIENCE. I feel that d3_crescentia fell into a trap by this, and I'm pretty sure someone else agrees with me too. I feel like d3_crescentia is trying to defend ace, and they they are both mafia from the same family. | ||
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I didn't want redtooth as pardoner. | ||
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On February 16 2010 09:42 Ace wrote: I haven't eaten in 3 days. foolishness would say: NOBODY CARES! lol I'm eating fajitas texanas right now, though. shrimp, beef, chicken, onions, green peppers NP | ||
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no on what? it's one or the other, and you aren't as strong of a player as ace so you cant just be like "im ace i have bodyarmor u cant kill me" like ace does because he knows that nothing will stick to him. i really do think you are mafia, though. | ||
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when i voted for him, I thought he was TIED WITH L I voted for REDTOOTH because I wanted him to not be pardoner i voted with like 30 seconds left lol | ||
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in this game setup I do not feel like roleclaiming as medic is as bad as it would be in nearly any other setup, as all 3 factions will potentially have a need for you at one point I didn't realize I vote swapped even more than chezinu, but if he was doing it for the same reasons I was, he is probably innocent. Being green, you really don't know who to side with (at least I don't), and when people make good points and act in a certain way they will draw your votes. There was a time when I felt like there weren't any good candidates anymore, and I actually abstained. I voted for redtooth so he couldn't be pardoner. I was the last person to vote, and I was making certain that he wouldn't be able to pardon ace if ace was red and got lynched... although he will probably die in 3 hours? but then again they might mistake me for red if they aren't the brightest crayons in the box. maybe i'll be dead. we'll see. to all of you blindly following advise on who to protect: don't. It would be better to not protect anyone than to be protecting a mafia member and tipping the scale in the favor of the other family. | ||
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i'd say find a good argument , but there isn't one if you really think about it. both mafias can't afford to lose them right now | ||
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On February 17 2010 06:32 Scamp wrote: This whole "tipping the scale" thing really isn't a problem at all. I wish you guys would stop fear-mongering. We take out as many mafia as we can to start the game. When did I ever say I don't want to kill mafia? Don't put words into my mouth. I am saying that mafia won't hit medics because they can't afford to lose them, and they can't afford to waste hits. they can't afford to lose them because of late game scenarios and they will try to use any opportunity to steal away the towns protection and protect their own members from getting hits put on them from the other mafia. the mafia can't afford to waste their hits on people that they don't know aren't mafia, or people that they don't at least suspect. the mafia's goal is obviously to eliminate the other mafia while not getting reduced to a critical number theirselves. that being said, with 10 mafia members on either side, i am all for killing anyone who is red right now. we're 0/1, though, so let's try to do some better analysis next time. | ||
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On February 17 2010 06:39 LucasWoJ wrote: No, RC'ing medic at any stage of the game is bad. There is no difference between someone who's known to be a medic at the beginning of the game or one at the end. Both can be used in whatever way each mafia family sees best for them at any stage of the game (whether that be at the beginning or at the end). The town has the advantage of being able to stall until we've killed eight from both sides. Why not keep that advantage? You're argument doesn't really make sense, BM. you're saying that the mafia will be able to use them if they come into the spotlight? that's the time they WON'T get benefits from them. I would contend that YOUR argument makes no sense. If medics will not be killed for roleclaiming, they can roleclaim. Mafia A could need the medics later on to survive. Mafia B could need the medics later on to survive. The town could need the medics later on to survive. Mafia A can not lynch the medics to lower its KP and in case it needs to survive later. Mafia B can not lynch the medics to lower its KP and in case it needs to survive later. The town can not lynch the medics because they need to keep both mafias alive. The medics will not be killed. It is OK to roleclaim to be a medic. | ||
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On February 17 2010 06:45 citi.zen wrote: Not related to anything, but perhaps funny enough to share here: my first ever post to Bill was on the TL Chess Game 2 against lightman last year, when he (surprisingly!) wasn't making much sense: NOBODY CARES! lol i do, funny post, but the fact that i'm bad at chess has nothing to do with this | ||
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err, not true. The following is an extremely simplified situation during which a "legit medic" would be hit. Mafia 1 - 1 person left. Known to be mafia Mafia 2 - 2 people left i mean you said one out of 3 out of 51 (medics in this game [probably]) and 2 out of 10 out of 51 mafia a and 1 out of 10 out of 51 mafia b that doesn't seem very likely to me | ||
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i can see them wanting to kill them if they drop below a certain point, like 3 goons vs 4. | ||
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On February 17 2010 08:29 Ace wrote: Don't have much time, but Townies listen to Scamp and LucaWoj. Under NO circumstances should anyone reveal they are a medic. Those are our trump cards because whichever side is "winning" the shooutout can't be allowed to run wild. Bill Murray you're actually one of my top 3 suspects now. No purely because of the spam, but because you've been wrong multiple times. Not even Amber[light] or Vivi57 have missed this many times in a single game. Feels as though you're trying to pull off the clueless role. Redtooth Chezinu isn't a confirmed DT. Don't get why you are protecting him unless you feel he's the only credible pro-town player at the moment? Also I forgot if it was you that made the "DTs can safely claim" post, and since I'm about to leave I can't check. But if anyone checks this information out and see that you made the argument, or supported it you're getting lynched tomorrow. That would show a huge contradiction in what you said and then your decision to protect Chezinu. Of course I hope that's not the case ^_^ I'll be playing for real from now on. Let's hope I don't die tonight ^_^ If I'm one of your top 3 suspects, all those "veteran" things being said are thrown out the window. You think I'm red, Ver thinks i'm blue, and in fact I am green. lol I have a PM of him saying he thinks I'm blue, and you just put me on your top 3 suspects? LOL really? I'm flattered, but no. I should be in the bottom 3 suspects, because I really am clueless as to who is mafia right now, and have noone to trust personally. | ||
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Let's hope I don't die tonight P.S. I hope you do die tonight, because you are most likely red, and if you are not, you are really making bad analysis if you think that I am a suspect so you are hurting the town. | ||
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i don't see why a detective would roleclaim, they would get killed so fast, see: the last game i played | ||
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On February 17 2010 08:50 d3_crescentia wrote: Ugh, because the mafia want to kill other mafia, not the town. As long as the DT can be swayed by one family they will have an edge over the other one. And because the town wants to find and kill all mafia, they 1) use medics to protect DT and 2) carefully watch who else is feeding DT information. THEY? you speak like you're not a townie. | ||
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in the day 1 clue analysis it mentions the moon 4 times and moonlight once, so a total of FIVE TIMES! how is that not clue analysis on him? and in terms of behavioral analysis, he has defended redtooth and ace BOTH. | ||
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Hi there, from your posts it's pretty clear to me that you are a blue role. Most likely a DT or medic. You should probably quit hinting at it so much. You don't need to necessarily trust me yet and tell me what you really are. My innocence will become apparent with time and once it is clear I'll be waiting for you to contact me. But I do want your trust and sooner than later; thus I'll be the one to offer the first gesture. I'm a Mad Hatter. This is from a PM Ver sent me. In case I die, I wanted to pass this on. He might not be lying, but this and his supporting of redtooth made me believe he might be red. | ||
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On February 17 2010 08:59 meeple wrote: That kinda goes on the assumption that Ace and redtooth are red... not really, i'm assuming ONE of them is red. | ||
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he's probably lying anyways. but.. if he's not... won't he be able to plant 2 bombs now anyways and get to his maximum effectiveness? sorry to throw you out there, ver, if you ARE blue... but i don't think they're going to want to mess with a mad hatter anyways. | ||
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My instinct was that he was mafia and fishing for information. I'm not so sure, and i'm the one who got the PM, so that should tell you how confusing it was to get that so early. | ||
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you all might want to check that game out btw | ||
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was ver lying? | ||
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or theyre working together vs the town, that could be terrible | ||
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On February 17 2010 09:44 meeple wrote: Did I miss where redtooth promised to save Chez? you must not be reading the thread, and don't blame it on my spam. he said it in multiple posts... like 5 if you count his "don't worry about chez" posts from last night. 2 or 3 if you don't count those, and i'm talking about 2 or 3 where he literally said "i'm going to protect chezinu" i'm interested in who the detectives rolechecked, and if any of them turned up green, maybe we can use that person to filter information. | ||
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On February 17 2010 09:58 SugiuraMidori wrote: I need to run to dinner and all.. and I'll return with some analysis, but this.. right here.. screams mafia.. the mafia side you're on was following you and made the mistakes because you were gungho about them being on the other mafia team? Just an idea, I'm not all about thinking you're an idiot, just a misguided spammer ;P Also.. just reading over clues... one looks like it points to me... so either I'm still being a bad clue analyzer (not like I was ever good at it) or.. ;_; Aren't clues supposed to be more discrete and point to a single person, not multiple all the time? Though, I admit, we all did get fooled by the Ace match didn't we.. and look where it got us.. I'll be sticking to behavioral analysis, though I was completely wrong about Zato-1. Maybe actually reading peoples posts (after that first few dozen pages of drivel) is a good idea! On the other hand!!! Ver pointed out both Ace and BC as being Mafia didn't he? He could also be a mafia member, perhaps not on the same team as BM, and maybe there was a double hit on BC because of it? I mean.. he was hit from above AND below. Just my immediate thoughts. And if you're so sick of my lists, Nikoner, I can stop posting them.. even though It was a major help last game I played when I was DT no I'm not one again).... and I had actually nailed most of the Mafia early on, just misguidedly changed them due to what the town was saying. this is the second or third time you've tried to paint me red, and you know why i wasn't killed last night? because i am an idiot townie. quit trying to paint me red, man, it's misguided and a waste of time. i am the most uninformed player in this thread......... im going to go for a bit, but when i come back, i'll attempt to analyze the clues in relation to profiles. | ||
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Shadows move where light should be. Out of darkness, out of mind, and fitting the description of the horseman iaaan - "Black is the absence of light" ohN - "No matter how dark the night, morning always comes, and our journey begins anew." would fit the clues to ace's murder imo.then at the video at the bottom of his page, it looks like he's setting fire to something. gasoline and a match in the clue.... idk. Mystlord - "light of my life, fire of my" has already been covered... but his profile references both light and fire, with his having that person on the rooftop looking down, could possibly be like the killer from the first day.. and then the reference to fire.... even if it IS about a girl... it can still point to him. seems like a stretch to me. this has been my analysis of only ace's murder. | ||
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----------------------------------------- Original Message: i asked "whats our plan of action now, chez?" after the day one murder to which he replied: "I sided with a mafia team" - 2/17 15:49 even if he's joking, this isn't funny. "I am using my abilities how they want me to use them. That why I will live longer!" 2/17/10 15:54 he then goes onto say that he knows who multiple mafia members are through blackmail. With a town lynch coming up, wouldn't it be nice for us to get someone who we know is red for a change? We have lost nothing but a blue and a ton of greens, and if you all keep voting to lynch me we will be losing yet another green. Maybe via threat of lynching, like if we change our votes to Chezinu, we can pressure him into posting what he knows based upon his "rolechecks", whether or not he's lying about being a detective at all can then be analyzed. the timestamp from the Ver post: 2/14 11:13 only for you, faronel. | ||
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On February 18 2010 04:51 LucasWoJ wrote:+ Show Spoiler + Cut it out opz and fishball. If anything, respond to citizen's post We need to continue talking so here is a summary of each player's posts up to page 82 for those who don't want to or cannot spend their time reading everything. This is kinda long, but it's still better than spending a day catching up: Ver + Show Spoiler + - argues that overly discussing clues helps the mafia - talking is good. using clues to start talking is not much good in the first two days. - mayoral candidates need to have a plan [E.N. I don't believe any had one] - accuses BC based on past behavior (mayoral post) -- seems like a legitimate accusation - Bill Murray seems innocent to him - praises L for not doing a half-assed job with clues. - does not want to be mayor because of how much time it would take. - mafia are sitting back and scheming according to Ver - those making real contributions up to that point (he fails to give out names) are innocent. - brings up meeple claiming that he's suspicious. Meeple is largely ignored. - extremely certain that at least Ace or L is mafia (02/15/10 @ 09:14) - one of his posts was a trap. He says the following people seem to have fallen for it: Empyrean, Nikoner, dozko, 789, Midori, and Bloodyc0bbler. All these people changed their behavior after the post, and it's very likely that they read it. - provides his own game plan (mayoral candidates had not done this yet) -- once again, very sound. clearly typed up before hand - comes up with a list of people who have been useless this game - publicly misinterprets BC's actions as "calculated" - brings up meeple again (ignored largely) - comes up with a medic list - comes up with a detective check list - took a hit during the night (he was on the medic list, too) - goes back and summarizes (not analyzes) the dead people's points - creates an "important posts" post Extremely quick analysis Ver has been giving out a lot of hints this game and seems to have taken over the role of teacher for those who have not played the game as much as him. Although his intentions seem clear, he has not yet been right in his accusations, and it's possible that his accusations were meant to waste another mafia family's hits for the night. If Ver does not continue taking hits at night, something's up. His helpfulness throughout the entire game so far, indicates to me, at least, that he isn't working with another group (meaning he's only working with the town). Also, no mafia died at night. I should hope that at least one would have had Ver been on their team. (Nevertheless, Ver could be hoping to use PM information to find the other mafia family. He can actually play as part of the town finding other mafia members.) DoctorHelvetica + Show Spoiler + - agrees that clues speculation helps the mafia. He just states that as his opinion - but we should make clue themes - runs for mayor on the platform that he will almost blindly follow the town (unless it cures him of his blindness through its blatant stupidity) - agrees with ver's big posts about how to play the game in the beginning - suspicious of L using clues (says this is bad by pointing to big names who oppose this method) - points out that Bill Murray's posts have "so many fucking things wrong" with them, and responds to each of them. convinced BM is mafia - makes an argument compilation up to page 24 @ 07:40 - flip flops from BM to empyream to Ace. - spams the thread senselessly by replying to BM's troll attempts - clue links mystlord (February 16 2010 07:24) - suspicious of zona (clue links) (February 16 2010 09:40) Very Quick Analysis DoctorHelvetica is very active for the majority of the game claiming that he's on the internet all day, and when he's not in this thread, he's watching the TSL or some hornet (?) game. He often makes an effort to contribute, but he falls into the clue analysis he claims cannot possibly be helpful (so hypocrite), and he spams the thread. He's indecisive about who he thinks is red: he went from L to Ace/redtooth to BM to mystlord/zona. This is probably because he's impulsive in his posting, and besides the 4-5 very good posts he's made, he treats this thread more like an instant messenger program. MasterDana + Show Spoiler + -runs for mayor because he's a nice guy - accuses 789 of being mafia (clue based) (February 15 2010 16:23) His connections seem very shaky at best (especially because he makes more than just one). - asks numerous self-explanatory questions like "Is this as big a deal as it seems? In previous games, has a Mafia Mayor done a huge amount of damage?" - defends his ignorance by saying he's really ignorant - exaggerates the "aggression" towards him Very Quick Analysis He's been exceedingly suspicious the entire game. He makes a half-assed attempt at clue analysis which just doesn't hold up. He stays silent the entire game asking rather silly questions. If this were not his first game (or so he claims), I would proclaim rather confidently that he's scummy. Johnnyspaz + Show Spoiler + - blames inactivity for the first night on family (after the game begins) - contributes nothing by laughing at how bill murray already got caught in his posting (inaccurate representation, I believe, of what was going on) - ready to change votes - says it's difficult to read long posts - white particles in his book mean dandelions or snow. Analysis Largely useless the entire game. He's one of those people lurking the thread coming out every now and then to say "I agree with X." He seems to be trying to contribute with clue analysis, but he's not doing a very good or convincing job at it at all. citi.zen + Show Spoiler + - runs for office - disagrees with Ace and Ver. Analyzing clues, on balance, helps the town. - makes some clue connections for the following people: BC, Ace, empyrean, amber, fishball, zato, mystlord, cynanmachae - long behavioral post on stuff he's noticed - spams the thread himself with something he thought was amusing (after complaining that it's easy to bury good posts with spam) - suggests that Lucaswoj and ver are working together in the same mafia - shyly suggests that zona is not posting as actively as he should be - a second clue analysis post in which he finds connections from the night before, and links vivi57, xelin, quickstriker, nikkoner, meeple, ohn, mystlord, Phrujbaz. [Note: he uses the same connection johnnyspaz used earlier) Analysis Citi.zen does a lot to help the town. His clue analysis was admittedly weak on some people, and seemingly legitimate on others. He's not afraid to call out Ace, Ver, etc. vivi57 + Show Spoiler + - started late; reads through thread slowly so cannot respond to much. - clue very important - believes Ace and BC to be in the same family with empyrean in there as well (coincidentally, another mafia family thought so as well). - wasted a mafia family's hits in posting that - medics should protect the mafia ver and mafia BC - useless spam Analysis He hasn't posted much, and what he has hurt the town. He's also spamming, so only further anti-town. LucasWoJ + Show Spoiler + Wouldn't be fair to do this myself Xelin + Show Spoiler + He's posted so few times you might as well read what he's said: On February 14 2010 18:24 XeliN wrote: Oh no Bill what hast thou done!! Trying to come up with a plausible explanation for how "other" slipped in there but im drawing blank. Firstly the activity in this game is amazing, expected to wake up with a good few pages to read, did not expect 20+... Not entirely sure on who to vote for atm, going to have to go over the thread without skim reading, but I'm glad Bloody emphasised just how bad 10f's plan was (If elected he said he would lynch someone who was Mafia from a previous game) and can't believe more people didnt bring this up, but as I said have only skimmed so far. On February 17 2010 10:37 XeliN wrote: Ok, I have been exceptionally busy with uni work over the last 2 days and has such havent trusted myself to use the internet (If i do i get no work done simple as that) Apologies for being inactive, I can and will be active from this point on. Have spent the last hour and a half going through the thread and firstly Ace turning green suprised me, simply reading the whole thread in one big chunk and i felt he was contributing little and not defending himself against accusations well (and he is meant to be a veteran player). Bill Murray, there seems to be some kind of idea especially at an earlier stage in the thread that he is clearly "innocent". From reading his posts I get quite the opposite feeling, he has been influential and accusatory, even changing votes last minute although was one of the few people who also changed last minute to give an explanation namely: "I didn't want Red to be pardoner". I would be inclined to consider him Mafia far more than a townie, but this is mostly on impression from going through the thread in one big chunk. Anyway now I'm going to dedicate some time to something I did none of in the last mafia game and try to analyse some clues! On February 17 2010 10:54 XeliN wrote: One thing that immediately strikes me about the Day 2 post is the Fairy Tale connection that seems inherent within it. Remeniscient of the "3 little piggies" or "3 bears" and seems like an underlying structure of the whole post. Analysis He adds nothing important to the discussion, and makes a false promise. He has NOT been active since yesterday, when he claimed he would be. His clue analysis is an observation. He doesn't expand on it at all, so I can't garnish any information from that. Right now, his posts have little content and value. I want to see that activity he promised several hours ago. Amber[Light] + Show Spoiler + - disagreed initially with Ver, but over the course of writing a rebuttal, he agreed with him. - points out that random people are voting BM and says that town should stop with the Ace BS. - makes a very useful post summarizing several key players Analysis He intentionally skews people's opinions (or makes them into extremes, at least) in order to generate some discussion. He certainly accomplishes this. fishball + Show Spoiler + - claims green townie - would lynch abenson first - very few posts at all, yet claims to be reading Analysis Typical fishball. Not enough information to really conclude anything. Very bad for town, and ought to start contributing soon. quickstriker + Show Spoiler + - says he will be back a little later at the start of the game and comes back 8 hours later impressed by the length of the thread - wants a summary of pages 24-40 - comes in the next day, lol, and shouts before asking for a summary of pages 40-81. Rather, he EXPECTS a summary. This guy is extremely amusing. Search all of his posts. It's the most useless crap I've ever seen. He's so lazy that he demands a summary of everything. Very anti-town and ought to start contributing to the town soon. 789 + Show Spoiler + - misses the first day of gameplay (Gregorian calendar; not mafia time), and gives an excuse for missing part of the next - defends himself by saying clues lean more toward Ace and empyrean. Very soft-spoken. - most of his posts are self-evident "fluff posts" - clues are useless because they point to me and that shouldn't be - acknowledges both days that the clues fit him - accuses Zona [IMPORTANT] Analysis He talks often, and although he contributes something, his posts often seem empty. He goes out on a limb in day 2 accusing zona of being the last remaining person left who could fit the clue empyrean and Ace both fit. He is right about his limited activity. He could be green or mafia hoping to eliminate the other mafia family. dozko + Show Spoiler + - disagrees with Ace about clues - believes L to be green for several reasons: (1) clue analysis at beginning = pro town; (2) voting pattern indicates L is innocent - calls out xelin for not posting much Analysis Doesn't post often, but when he does, his posts are well-thought out. He should post more often to be more useful to the town. nikoner + Show Spoiler + - joins up after 28 pages - clues are always right, even if your interpretation of them is wrong. (lololol) - lynching a mafia hastily could potentially have a disastrous effect on the game. It's probably best to let them kill off each other for now, while gently making suggestions based on logic and science as to who they should... dispose of. - mafia running for office - randomly accuses Phrujbaz of being mafia. NO justification given, so of course, no one cares. - distraught that redtooth is pushing for office so hard - advises L not to lynch anyone if that option exists.He's "wary of the possibility that lynching a mafia will lower one family's KP" Analysis His logic makes no sense, and he doesn't contribute anything to the town. It seems he's playing the game for personal pride. Better start contributing something soon. tree-hugger + Show Spoiler + Read his posts! On February 15 2010 13:03 tree.hugger wrote: I have a feeling that way to many of these posts, especially the ones from our veterans are tainted by personal feelings. Which is a little disappointing, because only unbiased, in-depth analysis is what is going to win us the game. And activity of course. I don't think my last stint as mayor would make me a good choice for the post, but I would suggest that the mayor be someone without the massive ego. Analysis Immediately worthy of being lynched. His lack of contribution to the game is absurd. Shockeyy + Show Spoiler + - announces that he read everything but besides just that, he says nothing - spams - agrees that decafchicken is lurking and is GF Analysis Another one with five one-line posts in the thread. His behavior in his posts is very weird. No one's accused him yet. Someone ought to. Do any clues link up to him? Something is very off with him. He's definitely worth another look. meeple + Show Spoiler + - runs for mayor without a real platform - stay impartial - profile the killers in the day posts right away - BC's out-of-character is not enough to lynch him. (defends BC) - defends BM; not convinced he's red. - hunt for mafia; don't rely on mafia crosshits - responds to trolls - claims mid-term season is cutting down on his time in mafia, but he has nearly 100 posts in this thread, and he's just about always in here. He might as well stop responding to trolls and post something more useful. - empyrean is more red than Ace, but Ace, if red, gives us more information - tells us what a mafia would and would not do [this sets off an alarm] Analysis Everything he does strikes me as safe and calculated, so to speak. He's unwilling to take any risks. He lies about inactivity. He's playing like mafia. It's all there. chezinu + Show Spoiler + troll; I'm not going to waste my time scamp + Show Spoiler + - claims to be green. - argues that medics RC'ing at any point is a bad move Analysis Green Zona + Show Spoiler + - town has less impact on the game than mafia. - game is imbalanced against the town - town should point out mafia for the other family to kill at night (but concedes that this can be bad because it might result in a superior mafia family) - defends accusations by saying that being passive this game is the best way to play it from the town's point of view Comments Start playing. Passivity doesn't really help the town much either. Being active always helps, even in this format. L + Show Spoiler + - claims clues blatantly point towards Ace - clues are going to be easy in this game because of the set-up - constantly reminds people not to make empty posts because it will discourage others from reading the thread. - implores that those who do not agree with how he interpretted the clues to post. BC heeds this post. L responds logically to BC's post. - claims empyrean was apathetic [Note: I think he meant indifferent, and not apathetic.] - accuses four people of being in mafia clue-wise "nemy, madnessman, mystlord, phrubaz" - going to post in twelve hours explaining how he reached that conclusion Analysis Seems town-sided, but one cannot overlook how royally he screwed up on the clues first day. He was still willing to listen to and respond to others' interpretation of them though. laaan + Show Spoiler + - potential clue fits: 789, ace, malongo, amber[light], mystlord - spams the thread with "chezinu makes me giggle"s key post: On February 15 2010 12:36 Iaaan wrote: My posts have been a bit lacking of content so far, I'll try to be a bit more insightful. For the town to win, we do not need to kill mafia; the Mafia‘s own KP will be the greatest weapon against the Mafia. What we, the town, needs to do is prepare for the later parts of the game, when our influence on the game really matters. In order to get ready for when our own KP matters, we need information. People have talked about putting together information, by profiling the clues, making circles of people who are connected to each other, and just watching what people post. The other way I can think of getting information is through lynches; if one person being red incriminates another person, it is more useful for the town to lynch them, again with the idea of controlling the balance between the mafia families in the later game. Other than having information, how can we increase our chance of winning? By killing the experienced Mafia. It makes sense to me that the veteran players are taking charge of their Mafia families. Therefore, while killing random Mafia members at this point may not ultimately benefit the town (you may disagree, but it would really just give an early advantage to one of the Mafia families), killing their leader will help the town. So who, with what I’ve said so far, who is the best person to lynch? Ace. Ace. is organizing one of the Mafia families, and Redtooth is his accomplice. The way I have linked them is through Redtooths post for candidacy. + Show Spoiler + On February 15 2010 06:53 redtooth wrote: enough of this. time to get the ball rolling. please prepare for content because... I AM ANNOUNCING MY CANDIDACY FOR MAYOR ![]() PLATFORM I am running for mayor. Some of you may know that I never run for any position regardless of my role, the reasons being similar to the ones Ver listed. However, I am willing to invest enough energy and effort to lead the town to victory. I have participated in enough mafia games and have developed an adequate understanding of the game. My play so far has demonstrated that I am capable of the high level thinking required for mayor of the town. Also, I am a Decision Science major at Carnegie Mellon. I play mafia for a living. THE OTHER CANDIDATES All of the other veterans running thus far (Ace, BC, L) have too much suspicion surrounding them to be good mayor candidates. Some of the other candidates are either jokes (Chezinu, MasterDana, l10f), or unproven so far in the game (meeple, DrH, citizen). Electing Ver after how the early portion of the elections played out earlier is very very dangerous. I stated earlier that we should not vote for Ver but refrained from explicitly laying out the reasons why. Now that he has outright declared his candidacy, I guess it's time to share my thought process. Quoting an earlier PM I sent to someone: Ver has, knowingly or unknowingly, taken advantage of the opportunity and halfheartedly declared his candidacy. This is the exact position we wanted to avoid. Before I was planning on running for Mayor, I requested that he withdraw his candidacy but I think just explaining the reasons in public should be enough to show that electing him as mayor is unwise. PRE-EMPTIVE DEFENSE Some may be suspicious of me due to my somewhat passionate defense of Ace. As stated before, I have a high degree of respect for Ace and did not want to kill him off due to what I perceived as clue analysis on red herrings. I also don't believe any of the veterans should be killed to "gain interesting insight into how Incognito's clues are going to work" (quoted from [NyC]HoBbes). My late entry into mayoral race shouldn't be regarded with too much suspicion either. Nobody expected the mayor candidates to be caught up in so much shit. I wasn't voted for prior to my announcement so my argument against Ver's candidacy doesn't apply to me. LYNCH CANDIDATE If elected mayor, I plan on lynching Bill Murray. There are obvious reasons (noted by Chezinu in a previous post) why we should be suspicious of him but there is much more to gain from lynching BM. So far he has presented himself as either a bad mafia or an idiot townie. Of course there is a chance that he flips green when mayor lynched and we waste a lynch but we get rid of a player that has a history of being detrimental to the town and isn't too valuable an asset to the town if he is indeed green. However, in the case that he flips red, we are provided with a wealth of information via the list that he posted. So far Bill has yet to post a legitimate defense, choosing instead to make a string of five or so posts that amounts to a desperate strike back at those that accused him. This makes him highly suspicious in my book. I am planning on checking over his behavior in the last game he played but FUTURE PLANS To kill the mafia of course. We have to use our lynches to maximum efficiency and somehow get the DTs to broadcast their information without revealing their identity. Later on in the game, clue analysis should be more abundant than ever before because all players (mafia and town-aligned) benefit from the analysis. If Bill Murray flips red then the focus should immediately shift to the list he posted. The most notable oddity in the list was the absence of Ace despite the mountain of suspicion surrounding him. Please also remember that I was on the list. If anything, it would make sense that either both of us are on the list (a mafia defending a fellow mafia), neither of us are on the list (a townie defending a fellow townie), or Ace is on but I'm not (a mistaken townie risking his neck to defend a mafia). It doesn't make sense that I am on the list but Ace is not (a mafia defending a random townie). Please note that my attempt to lynch Bill Murray isn't out of anger towards him due to my name being on the list. So as of now I would place Ace in the same 'group' as Bill Murray. Though I fought hard to defend Ace thus far, he is far from exonerated and L's clue analysis is as solid as you can possibly get with only Day 1 clues. That means, depending on what color Bill flips, Ace becomes highly suspicious once more. Having said all that I feel that we should keep all the veterans alive as long as possible. They are capable of identifying mafia and (whether its through clue analysis or behavior analysis) call out individuals to lynch. Why is this beneficial for the town? Well as I stated earlier, town can't win if mafia takes out town first but at the same time a mafia family can't win unless they kill off the other mafia family. To identify and call out a mafia member in public would mean either the town or the opposing mafia family can kill that person off. Also, anyone who's been mafia before would know that killing off a veteran mafia member doesn't really get rid of their influence (due to reasons I don't want to state publicly). tl;dr You shouldn't vote for other mayor candidates due to various reasons. Vote for me. I am reasonable, logical, and have basic plans with more in the making. Most importantly, I am innocent. Thank you for your time. The things that make me consider him Mafia are his pre emptive defence, lynch candidate, and his future plans. First off, the preemtive defence. Quite simply, this is him justifying his support for Ace. First Redtooth supports Ace, claiming that the Day 1 clues are always useless. Later he wavers slightly in his support, contradicting himself and admitting that the clues may be useful, but now it looks like he has gone back to supporting Ace. This could be a little ambiguous, but I think that complete/blind trust is suspicious, and maybe Redtooth thinks that aswell. This is also significant, because Redtooths main defence against accusations against him, and people linking him to Ace is that Redtooth claims to mistrust Ace, while refusing to provide a reason. As for lynching Bill Murray in order to determine Ace’s roll, this is just silly. I think most of us can see that Bill Murray was being dumb, but not mafia. By saying that Ace is red if BM is red, when BM is obviously green, Redtooth is creating an arbitrary defence for Ace, as well as wasting a lynch on killing a townie that will not give us any useful information. Redtooth also states that we should keep veterans alive; I can’t say this makes him mafia, it sounds reasonable, but I’ve stated my reasons already why keeping veterans alive is not a good strategy. As for other supporting facts, Ace’s posts arguing with L have not actually refuted any of his points, only deflected them by agreeing with Redtooth that Day 1 clues are useless, when I think it is pretty clear that the clues COULD point to Ace. Other people supporting Ace include Decafchicken, who hasn’t said anything, but just voted for Ace (assuming one of the Mafia families candidates are Redtooth and Ace, Ace is the one with more votes, thus the logical one to vote for), and Abenson hasn’t really added anything, only supported Ace IIRC. These peoples connections aren’t solid, and I’m sure there are other people with similar connections, but I haven’t bothered to find them yet. I haven’t covered anything, but many things have already said if you have read through the thread, but I do want to quote this one post: I agree with many things L has said, the most relevant one being that Ace’s arguments/”trap” are bad, and I support him for saying he may lynch Ace if elected. I was considering voting for citizen, but L is more active, and again I agree with a lot of what he has to say. I can think of a few more reasons that L is the best candidate, but this post is getting pretty long, and my focus is on Ace If anything is unclear/missing, I am happy to talk about that in a later post; I know I haven’t included everything. My last thought, following the theme of getting information for later in the game from out lynch, if Ace is red, it could rule out the other people being accused for the blinding/brightness clues if he flips green, and if he flips red, it gives us a circle of potential Mafia. We win either way. I await your counter arguments; I hope you consider this accusation worthy of a response. Everything else is pretty much useless Analysis I'm not sure what to think of him. He doesn't seem to be pro-town at all times and is just reiterating everything that's already been said, but then he comes out with that. It's possible he's green, and it's possible he's red. I'm tired. I'll continue this in a later post. I'll do you. LucasWoJ: extremely helpful to the town, gathers information, tries to look at things objectively and would rather focus on voting based upon a mixture of behavioral analysis and the clues. seems very level-headed. if he's red-aligned, he is one of the better players not being mentioned as being a good player. my analysis is that he's too helpful to the town to not be town-aligned, and is probably green. | ||
Bill Murray
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![]() he just completely raped a terran | ||
Bill Murray
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There can be 2 assumptions: He is town aligned, and is a Veteran or Mad Hatter like he has claimed, and wants to bring people together that can protect the town. I have seen nothing of this so far. He is mafia, and is fishing for Blue Roles so he can eliminate them when or if he needs to... this seemed more likely to me when getting his pm. When Chezinu pmed me, it was more of a joke. I don't really take him seriously, I just wanted to scare him out of hiding and see how he would react. The way he reacted was pretty good, so I don't think he's red right now until something else changes. | ||
Bill Murray
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Bill Murray
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perspective is so relative. It's not like XeliN or Nemy or Mystlord were the only people have have had speculation thrown onto them. Nearly everyone in this thread has. Who can you trust, honestly? Mafia have 9 friends they can trust, 10 enemies to kill, and had 31 people breathing down their necks... I personally have noone to trust. With Ver and Redtooth claiming to be town aligned, they have effectively thrown the heat off of themselves. Perhaps I should take a lesson from their book and claim to be a Mad Hatter, a Medic, or a Veteran. I'm not going to do this, though, because I am not a liar. I am green, and I can say that for the very reason that I won't say I'm blue. It's the same reason that if I was red I wouldn't be saying any of this at all, and would be more like "show me your evidence against me". that being said, unless I am the miller, there is no possible way anyone will be able to come forward and bring evidence up against me of being anything but green. | ||
Bill Murray
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Bill Murray
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Lets see here, I'm not claiming anything by this, but lets let me paint people color just for fun: Ver claimed blue Bill Murray I know I'm green. Mystlord DoctorHelvetica he was a lot nicer as a red LOL zona nemy Faronel XeliN Nikoner i think that would be proportionate mathematically. i'm not claiming ANYTHING by this post, just trying to get you all to think about how proportionate i feel the green to blue to red ratio will be. i do not think that zona or nikoner is red, for instance. | ||
Bill Murray
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tree.hugger - abstained zona - not seeing a vote ohN - abstained Abenson - not seeing a vote CynanMachae - abstained tredmasta - abstained l10f - abstained sidesprang - abstained decafchicken - abstained will zona / abenson get modkilled? | ||
Bill Murray
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Bill Murray
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Bill Murray
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that makes me suspect zona.. he had no reason to post that unless zona is in the mafia with him | ||
Bill Murray
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Bill Murray
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Bill Murray
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eager to see some clues ![]() | ||
Bill Murray
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also if you all are complaining about activity, now that i'm gone, that's not good.... ![]() had fun playing this, sorry if I was a bit too chatty. hope the town wins!! i had a feeling i was going to die, and almost posted two lists of 9, one would have been almost entirely from a list ver put out rofl. oh well, hopefully i'll do better next time. edit: nice to be able to edit now, back to sc2 streams! | ||
Bill Murray
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Bill Murray
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