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Charoisaur
Germany16091 Posts
On August 22 2015 21:33 Thouhastmail wrote: these opinions are quite interesting, cause most Koreans LOVE this slower pace, saying that it is more like BW. Source? I can't imagine koreans like that macro gets even easier. | ||
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Quineotio
Australia128 Posts
On August 22 2015 21:31 JacobShock wrote: I agree Beasty. I think we are leaning too hard in the direction of making the game easier. Maybe change up the macro mechanics, but removing them completely is just too extreme imho. As a zerg I find the game too dumbed down, I have almost no reason to go back to my bases, unless to occasionally throw down a tech structure or check saturation. I feel like Zerg has become the easiest race mechanically now and a part of me feels sad about it. I loved the feeling of trying to improve my injects and the pride when I had above average injects in a few games. My layman suggestion would be to increase the time between injects, but increase the amount of larva injected? I have no idea how that would break the game though, as I am not going to pretend to be a pseudo game designer like half the people here. (granted a lot of people here have really good suggestions for the game) The thing about increasing the time between injects is that it doesn't really fix the fundamental problem, which is that it's a repetitive, mechanical task with no strategic implications. I agree that the current implementation is not ideal. I like the queen. It has so many interesting and useful roles, both in offense and defense. I like the idea of having to choose between extra production and fighting, but with inject, you don't really have to choose, because you only need to be next to your hatchery for a second to inject. How about making inject a channeled spell that increases the rate hatcheries produce larvae and increases the maximum number of larvae at a hatchery. It could cost 25 to cast, but stop the queen from gaining energy while channeling. Doing it this way forces the zerg player to make a choice between using their queens to increase production, or spread creep, or to fight. It also makes inject less of a mechanical struggle, because instead of clicking every time the larvae pop, you only have to worry about inject when your base is being attacked and have to pull your queens. Doing it this way also gives the opponent another way to counter zerg production - force them to keep their queens in a defensive position. No doubt this change would make harass better against zerg in the early game and force zerg to build more combat units, but the easier inject might make up for this. | ||
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Aocowns
Norway6070 Posts
On August 22 2015 21:33 Thouhastmail wrote: these opinions are quite interesting, cause most Koreans LOVE this slower pace, saying that it is more like BW. gonna have to sauce this. as far as i know they all hated the super fast micro everything pace, so they probably just meant they were happy the game felt slower in that regard, not that a high diamond and a high master zerg are almost indistuingishable in macro | ||
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Ryndika
1489 Posts
But isn't their whole objective to make game less interesting and easier and simpler because they believe it will net more sales? Is there any other explanation? There changes are not design wise good nor do they promote "spirit" of starcraft. (separating good from better and mechanics) Now good=better and less mechancis. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
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rockslave
Brazil318 Posts
On August 22 2015 22:17 Charoisaur wrote: Source? I can't imagine koreans like that macro gets even easier. Well, there was that topic of Canata complaining that the game is too hard, and apparently most korean pros agree. | ||
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BonitiilloO
Dominican Republic627 Posts
Broodwar was a very slow game, and people wants that feeling back again. | ||
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Aocowns
Norway6070 Posts
On August 22 2015 23:33 SC2BF3Love wrote: guys remember this is just a test, it can be reverted back, but i would like them to keep it as it is, macromechanics are bad for the game, they just need to tweak timings here and there on some units and structures and everything will be fine, Broodwar was a very slow game, and people wants that feeling back again. broodwar was a slow game with a ton of things that needed managing and taxing mechanics, sc2 is just a fraction of that. zerg isnt even a fraction. BW was super competitive because there was a baseline skill required to execute strategies, and that isnt present in sc2, so with this direction sc2 will never be like BW because just about everyone at the pro level will have the skill to execute high level strategies | ||
BluemoonSC
SoCal8933 Posts
 . I'm fine with chrono bc it lessens gimmicky timings.I thought I'd be ok with auto inject but I gotta be honest..having 2 larva instead of 4 is more punishing than missing your inject by 10s or so bc terran double dropped you or you were heavily microing your army vs storm. I can't figure out my eco timings, I can't figure out my macro hatch timings. Are any other zergs having serious issues in the non mirror matchups? | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
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Dingodile
4139 Posts
On August 22 2015 22:17 Charoisaur wrote: Source? I can't imagine koreans like that macro gets even easier. That is not what this mean. slower pace increase the quality of this game drastically. A game that is too fast or too slow paced is bad, you have to find the correct speed. I have complained that the speed in sc2 is way too fast for 5 years. we need more 100/100 or 130/130 supply fights. We all know how boring 200/200 fights are. | ||
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Thouhastmail
Korea (North)876 Posts
On August 22 2015 22:17 Charoisaur wrote: Source? I can't imagine koreans like that macro gets even easier. http://gall.dcinside.com/board/view/?id=starcraft_new&no=3651405 (most of Korean communities communicate with each other by writing lots of one-line threads, so do not care about the number of replies) let me give you some translations FYI: Since when have all those foreigners act like 400 APM ? It`s ridiculous cause they cannot do much thing even with that 'slow' pace, huh. replies: cannot agree more. they do not know anything. srsly. so be it, those pushovers required 'more actives' even when those redundant macros were alive. I do not believe those blokes actually play the game. Novice wants faster pace? nonsense. And, Koreans do not count those repeating-things as Macro; we think that the macro in RTS is the strategic choice called build-optimisation, a concept covers a wide field, like building positions | ||
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8933 Posts
On August 23 2015 00:59 Thouhastmail wrote: http://gall.dcinside.com/board/view/?id=starcraft_new&no=3651405 (most of Korean communities communicate with each other by writing lots of one-line threads, so do not care about the number of replies) let me give you some translations FYI: Since when have all those foreigners act like 400 APM ? It`s ridiculous cause they cannot do much thing even with that 'slow' pace, huh. replies: cannot agree more. they do not know anything. srsly. so be it, those pushovers required 'more actives' even when those redundant macros were alive. I do not believe those blokes actually play the game. Novice wants faster pace? nonsense. sign me up with the korean community unless DK doesn't do anything about muh larva | ||
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Roblin
Sweden948 Posts
On August 22 2015 23:50 BluemoonSC wrote: I'm enjoying the pace of the game right now but this larva situation is killing me. I'm fine with the removal of mules bc on gold bases and fresh expos after being contained, suddenly 20 marines . I'm fine with chrono bc it lessens gimmicky timings.I thought I'd be ok with auto inject but I gotta be honest..having 2 larva instead of 4 is more punishing than missing your inject by 10s or so bc terran double dropped you or you were heavily microing your army vs storm. I can't figure out my eco timings, I can't figure out my macro hatch timings. Are any other zergs having serious issues in the non mirror matchups? i wouldnt call them serious but i havent figured out the timings for extra hatches yet either. overall im really liking the changes, game is much more enjoyable now. excuse my spelling and wording, im typing on phone. | ||
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SC2Angora
53 Posts
We really need the mules to comeback with chronoboost and skilled inject, this game is no sc2 anymore. | ||
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TheWinks
United States572 Posts
On August 23 2015 00:59 Thouhastmail wrote: And, Koreans do not count those repeating-things as Macro; we think that the macro in RTS is the strategic choice called build-optimisation, a concept covers a wide field, like building positions Building units and supply generators isn't macro? | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
OH SICK redbull battleground santamonica in 6 days  | ||
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Thouhastmail
Korea (North)876 Posts
On August 23 2015 01:31 TheWinks wrote: Building units and supply generators isn't macro? well, I believe you`re smart bloke, but let me tell you the point for confirmation; the macro-things which are recently automated are collateral ones; what you mentioned is not. | ||
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TheWinks
United States572 Posts
On August 23 2015 01:44 Thouhastmail wrote: well, I believe you`re smart bloke, but let me tell you the point for confirmation; the macro-things which are recently automated are collateral ones; what you mentioned is not. Nope, not adequate. Please expound. | ||
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jinjin5000
United States1559 Posts
On August 23 2015 00:59 Thouhastmail wrote: http://gall.dcinside.com/board/view/?id=starcraft_new&no=3651405 (most of Korean communities communicate with each other by writing lots of one-line threads, so do not care about the number of replies) let me give you some translations FYI: Since when have all those foreigners act like 400 APM ? It`s ridiculous cause they cannot do much thing even with that 'slow' pace, huh. replies: cannot agree more. they do not know anything. srsly. so be it, those pushovers required 'more actives' even when those redundant macros were alive. I do not believe those blokes actually play the game. Novice wants faster pace? nonsense. And, Koreans do not count those repeating-things as Macro; we think that the macro in RTS is the strategic choice called build-optimisation, a concept covers a wide field, like building positions One thread out of many. Its mixed bag judt like our own community. All you are doing is cherry picking one that had five replies. Stop pulling it out of your ass | ||
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