Welcome to this patch's General Discussion thread for the League of Legends subforum. This thread is for discussion around League of Legends. Free feel to talk about anything LoL related here that does not already have its own thread.
On August 24 2016 06:15 nafta wrote: This new yorick looks absolutely godly from the preview. Looks like they capturated the archetype pretty well.
The VU team has really been hitting some homers lately. Taric looks good. The Poppy update was good. Sion's update was awesome. I am sure there are more I am forgetting.
On August 24 2016 06:15 nafta wrote: This new yorick looks absolutely godly from the preview. Looks like they capturated the archetype pretty well.
The VU team has really been hitting some homers lately. Taric looks good. The Poppy update was good. Sion's update was awesome. I am sure there are more I am forgetting.
In my eyes Taric is a failure thematically/visually (well I'm all but sold on the new Targon lore, especially Pantheon, or "how the only part we kept about the character is he's not supposed to be a relatable identity and he fights well", 'cept the first point was unintentional at first but a success imo, while now they embrace now and make it shallow as fuck), and I don't like this new Yorick either.
But then again they wanted to make him "cool" visually, so gotta give it that big physique and all the poses and stuff. On one hand I can understand the need to make sellable/marketable stuff, of course, and liking non-perfect stuff can come across as a quirk pretty often I've noticed, but on the other hand it's pretty generic/shallow "cool" "dark" stuff.
goes to gank top lvl 3. 2/3 waves of creeps about to hit darius tower which teemo shoving into him. Darius about 1/2 hp and teemo 70%. Stands in bush, clear no ward. Pops ghost (he blue side) and charges in as about 2 blue creeps left. Teemo blinds him. Trick2G aa him anyway, tanking all the minions. Darius level 2 is walking up . Udyr runs away into bush, teemo wards it and he dies. Darius now at 1/5 hp mainly from minions. The now double buffed teemo dives him under tower and kills him. Trick2g then flames the top laner in chat..
Been seeing alot more Jungle KogMaw recently. Was skeptical at first but its actually super broken once he hits his Devourer/Wits End/Hurricane item combo. They usually end up doing the most damage in the game if he has decent positioning.
On August 24 2016 09:46 MuddyJam wrote: so i just turned on trick2g stream
goes to gank top lvl 3. 2/3 waves of creeps about to hit darius tower which teemo shoving into him. Darius about 1/2 hp and teemo 70%. Stands in bush, clear no ward. Pops ghost (he blue side) and charges in as about 2 blue creeps left. Teemo blinds him. Trick2G aa him anyway, tanking all the minions. Darius level 2 is walking up . Udyr runs away into bush, teemo wards it and he dies. Darius now at 1/5 hp mainly from minions. The now double buffed teemo dives him under tower and kills him. Trick2g then flames the top laner in chat..
was Trick2G always prone to being this bad?
Kind of he seems to be able to make great and awful plays great his doing and awful never his fault. But that's kind of the common league attitude and I think works well his audience who tend to be young and like his " I talk like a gangster but play vids 12 hours a day" I have not watched him a ton but when I have I've either left thinking gems way better than I thought or man is he bad. Rarely in betwee n.
Regis response compared to Marc Merill's is on another level completely.
A good response no doubt. But the real issue isn't even paying PR people, its writing coherent thoughts at all. You could have taken the substance of Tryndamere's post and run it through 3 PR people and it still would be a disaster, like "The Decision" vs. Durant's "My Next Chapter". Those are always going to lose to the "I'm coming home" Lebron essay because one has a message that teems with contempt, dishonesty, and cowardice, while the other is genuine, pained, and heartfelt.
While Riot does have, on occasion, bad messaging, their real problem is they are consistently having to defend bad positions.
Regis response compared to Marc Merill's is on another level completely.
Well a lot of it is just that Regi is right and Marc is wrong. Its easy to support a position that has fundamental agreeable points.
I mean, Regi's comments about patches is basically what i wrote 2 years ago. Maybe i should have done some prognosticating so i could look like a genius
On August 24 2016 09:46 MuddyJam wrote: so i just turned on trick2g stream
goes to gank top lvl 3. 2/3 waves of creeps about to hit darius tower which teemo shoving into him. Darius about 1/2 hp and teemo 70%. Stands in bush, clear no ward. Pops ghost (he blue side) and charges in as about 2 blue creeps left. Teemo blinds him. Trick2G aa him anyway, tanking all the minions. Darius level 2 is walking up . Udyr runs away into bush, teemo wards it and he dies. Darius now at 1/5 hp mainly from minions. The now double buffed teemo dives him under tower and kills him. Trick2g then flames the top laner in chat..
On August 24 2016 10:00 MooMooMugi wrote: Been seeing alot more Jungle KogMaw recently. Was skeptical at first but its actually super broken once he hits his Devourer/Wits End/Hurricane item combo. They usually end up doing the most damage in the game if he has decent positioning.
Regis response compared to Marc Merill's is on another level completely.
Well a lot of it is just that Regi is right and Marc is wrong. Its easy to support a position that has fundamental agreeable points.
I mean, Regi's comments about patches is basically what i wrote 2 years ago. Maybe i should have done some prognosticating so i could look like a genius
A lot of it is prevailing opinions at LL for years.
But Riot has had PR people sluff off all these points since season 1. We had all accepted this was riots position, and tryndamere keyboard warriored his way into pissing of the whole community by picking a fight with the biggest champion of the people there is right now.
Most people would have forgotten the Regi Scarra interview by now if they just didn't make such a scandal of it. Everyone would be talking about G2 being fiscally tied to Fnatics owner... the same thing they forced Monte to sell over.
Also... I hope Yorick can jungle.
AWWW YISSS!
Can even send minions bot early for that sweet sweet fast push and tower golds. Beast. I also think a W + slow bot from the jungle is manageable lategame with an Aegis, but something like that from top would be awful. I hope he is viable from the jungles. I excited for LoL again. <_<
Man, those Vi buffs are not enough. The passive change means she doesn't get wrecked as much during her first clear, her Q being a flat knockback stun duration means it's stronger for level 3-8, weaker at level 9+. Honestly, the biggest buff is the E getting 2 charges when you skill it up at level 2. Means your first clear will be faster by letting you go Golem > Raptors > Red > Wolves > Blue > Gromp, take scuttle crab and then gank mid/top.
If they want her to be relevant again, let her passive shield scale with levels, starting at 8% of max HP at level 1 and going to 26% max HP at level 18. This means for late game team fights she will have an approx. 3.5k - 4k EHP pool when ulting the enemy carry for a couple seconds, before losing the shield and going to ~2.8k - 3k HP (so a 700-1k shield), depending upon how you build her. I do wonder however with the changes if it's better to go BC > Cinderhulk > full tank, TF > Cinderhulk > full tank, or Warrior > BC > full tank.
The Vi change on Q knockback might seem weird, but it's actually the result of Riot reaching out to otp Vi player Super Metroid. He's a west coast player, and he has been complaining that since the server move his old BnB combo of Q>auto>E>Ult went from being garunteed to having to get lucky. He's been saying for a long time that this buff along with Gragas and Reksai being not so OP is all she needed, this patch seems to address those issues.
On August 24 2016 21:11 Alaric wrote: The knock-up duration wasn't per level, but depending on the charge time before dashing iirc.
The confusion here is that Q never listed the duration of the knockback, it was actually unknown. There is conflicting information between the patchnotes and Vi's designer. When Gypsylord messaged Metroid to ask him about Vi buffs, Metroid asked him how the knockback worked and he was told it was .5 seconds period (no variation like listed in the notes).
Here is where I get a little unsure of what was actually changed, Metroid said if he could have 1 buff it would be to extend the knockback so he could execute his old BnB combo, that had a 100% execution rate when west coast ping was the best ping. Gypsylord responded that he felt this buff was too much, and that it probably wouldn't happen, he instead said he would ask the dev team to up the refresh time(client to server check) on Vi's knockup, thinking perhaps this would increase consistency on being able to do the combo or not.
So he's Gypsylord was either wrong on the duration of the old knockup, or he changed his mind on just flat buffing the knockup, but I am sure it is intended as a buff at all levels as I would expect their QA team to try executing the combo at faked ping, but it's riot so who knows lol.
UPDATE: apparently the knockup was .5 static, however the standard server check rate allowed for a variation of .5-.75, in other words it was a completely random variable, the ability has been buffed to .7 as well as having a flag to refresh the status with the server at a higher rate, to make it as consistently .7 as possible barring players with super bad ping etc. With this buff in place the Vi Q>auto>e>ult combo should be guaranteed before the player is able to flash/react.
On August 24 2016 23:08 AdsMoFro wrote: Rek'sai noooo. Won't be the end of Rek'sai in competitive (people will shift towards E max), but grag got destroyed.
Riot doesn't like junglers. Since start of season they've just nerfed all the good ones.
On August 24 2016 23:08 AdsMoFro wrote: Rek'sai noooo. Won't be the end of Rek'sai in competitive (people will shift towards E max), but grag got destroyed.
Riot doesn't like junglers. Since start of season they've just nerfed all the good ones.
No jungle buffs ever.
Kindred has buffs on PBE. They're playing a dangerous game, though, because with even a little bit of numbers buffs Kindred can easily become way too dominant.
On August 24 2016 23:08 AdsMoFro wrote: Rek'sai noooo. Won't be the end of Rek'sai in competitive (people will shift towards E max), but grag got destroyed.
Riot doesn't like junglers. Since start of season they've just nerfed all the good ones.
No jungle buffs ever.
Kindred has buffs on PBE. They're playing a dangerous game, though, because with even a little bit of numbers buffs Kindred can easily become way too dominant.
wtf, why? she good enough to be picked in lck finals already
On August 24 2016 23:08 AdsMoFro wrote: Rek'sai noooo. Won't be the end of Rek'sai in competitive (people will shift towards E max), but grag got destroyed.
Riot doesn't like junglers. Since start of season they've just nerfed all the good ones.
No jungle buffs ever.
Kindred has buffs on PBE. They're playing a dangerous game, though, because with even a little bit of numbers buffs Kindred can easily become way too dominant.
wtf, why? she good enough to be picked in lck finals already
Because all the meta junglers were banned/picked and Kindred is a confort champion for Score, who spent most of his career playing AD.
On August 25 2016 02:16 cLutZ wrote: That reminds me of how bad Kalista is now. Any idea what they are going to do with her? She went from broken good to broken bad.
On August 24 2016 23:08 AdsMoFro wrote: Rek'sai noooo. Won't be the end of Rek'sai in competitive (people will shift towards E max), but grag got destroyed.
Riot doesn't like junglers. Since start of season they've just nerfed all the good ones.
No jungle buffs ever.
Kindred has buffs on PBE. They're playing a dangerous game, though, because with even a little bit of numbers buffs Kindred can easily become way too dominant.
wtf, why? she good enough to be picked in lck finals already
Because all the meta junglers were banned/picked and Kindred is a confort champion for Score, who spent most of his career playing AD.
I'm not saying Kindred is (are?) a top tier jungler but it would be better if she didn't get any buffs while the 4 junglers banned in that game (Reksai, Gragas, Nidalee and Elise) got nerfed.
On August 24 2016 23:27 Slusher wrote: The Vi change on Q knockback might seem weird, but it's actually the result of Riot reaching out to otp Vi player Super Metroid. He's a west coast player, and he has been complaining that since the server move his old BnB combo of Q>auto>E>Ult went from being garunteed to having to get lucky. He's been saying for a long time that this buff along with Gragas and Reksai being not so OP is all she needed, this patch seems to address those issues.
On August 24 2016 21:11 Alaric wrote: The knock-up duration wasn't per level, but depending on the charge time before dashing iirc.
The confusion here is that Q never listed the duration of the knockback, it was actually unknown. There is conflicting information between the patchnotes and Vi's designer. When Gypsylord messaged Metroid to ask him about Vi buffs, Metroid asked him how the knockback worked and he was told it was .5 seconds period (no variation like listed in the notes).
Here is where I get a little unsure of what was actually changed, Metroid said if he could have 1 buff it would be to extend the knockback so he could execute his old BnB combo, that had a 100% execution rate when west coast ping was the best ping. Gypsylord responded that he felt this buff was too much, and that it probably wouldn't happen, he instead said he would ask the dev team to up the refresh time(client to server check) on Vi's knockup, thinking perhaps this would increase consistency on being able to do the combo or not.
So he's Gypsylord was either wrong on the duration of the old knockup, or he changed his mind on just flat buffing the knockup, but I am sure it is intended as a buff at all levels as I would expect their QA team to try executing the combo at faked ping, but it's riot so who knows lol.
UPDATE: apparently the knockup was .5 static, however the standard server check rate allowed for a variation of .5-.75, in other words it was a completely random variable, the ability has been buffed to .7 as well as having a flag to refresh the status with the server at a higher rate, to make it as consistently .7 as possible barring players with super bad ping etc. With this buff in place the Vi Q>auto>e>ult combo should be guaranteed before the player is able to flash/react.
Mind you, that combo is basically the only one she has that let's her do burst damage (as her W passive will proc on the E AA reset, letting the ult do even more damage), and if some dumb player lets you straight up walk into them with a fully charged Q, or even Flash-Q > Auto > E AA reset > ult and not flash themselves or use their CC on you, they deserve to get blown up.
Edit:
As for the discussion about top tier junglers right now, Rek'Sai and Gragas were the best due to being able to sustain through the jungle with their kit (Rek'Sai burrow regen, Gragas passive) along with having decent clear speeds (her Qs and W, all of his abilities doing an AoE damage). Rek'Sai will still be picked because the tremorsense passive is too strong for competitive, and Gragas might be picked for team comps that need someone to disengage/single out targets with his ult for a peel or protect the ADC comp, which we've seen some teams do in LCS, LPL, and LCK. Elise and Nidalee will probably still be picked for early game ganks (Elise w/ her cocoon, Nidalee's burst damage if she lands a spear), and I don't know if you can nerf them any more without just making them unplayable, seeing as they've had a lot of nerfs in the past to get them here.
Kindred will always be hovering near the top of possible "new meta" junglers because if her numbers ever get too good, she can wave clear super fast and just turn into another carry that is hard to disrupt and provides artificial tankiness in the form of her ult. And the issue with Hecarim is he needs level 6 and a lot more gold than most junglers to get rolling due to TF being so strong on him. But with the new "standard" of few lane swaps and laning phases lasting to the 10-15 minute mark, it might be enough time for him to farm up most of a TF and still be relevant for the first couple team fights.
Vi, Pantheon, Graves, Diana (especially with her E buff), Lee (because of the Insec kick), and J4 are probably hovering in the same area as Kindred. But basically all these champs have some weakness (Vi can't get out when she goes in, Panth ult falls off late game, Graves needs ADC-tier gold to be strong late, Diana needs 8 items to be truly deadly, Lee and J4 fall off hard late game) that prevent them from being meta right now.
Personally, the most likely "non-meta" junglers that I see becoming meta are Vi, Diana, and J4, all because they carry the Ori ball really, really well, and her ult buff is pretty huge, especially when you consider she tends to build Athenes/Morellos first item. Having her ult be up for basically every team fight starting at one 20% CDR item by level 6 is insane. For arguement's sake, imagine a team comp of Rumble top, one of these 3 junglers, and Ori mid. The wombo combo is insane.
yea dog I know how Vi works, I was just posting in responce to the theory that this wasn't a straight buff, or that it wasn't relevant to what she needs that you put on page 1. it's a good buff, it is different than old Gragas FLash E in a multitude of ways (e being instant cast being the biggest). Hitting a full charge Q virtually requires flash in almost all situations vs. not Bronze players, and if you don't have q charged this combo isn't 1 shotting anyway.
On champion gg the JGs with the best win rates are all odd picks like skarner or Kogmaw or Ap picks like Sol or fiddle. (I actually like sol a lot if your team helps you ward for the first few levels).
Think any of these guys have what it takes for the big time?
On August 25 2016 06:36 General_Winter wrote: On champion gg the JGs with the best win rates are all odd picks like skarner or Kogmaw or Ap picks like Sol or fiddle. (I actually like sol a lot if your team helps you ward for the first few levels).
Think any of these guys have what it takes for the big time?
No. They require too many resources / enemy mistakes to flourish in pro.
I don't think the jungle tier list for competitive was changed at all by this patch except moving Gragas to the bottom of top tier, and moving everyone below him 1 slot up.
Vi's buff is good, but like you said she is too one dimensional to ever be good without overtuned damage numbers that let her build tank items.
Jarvan farms too slow, a lot of people will say well he has great level 2 ganks that are a lot easier to land in solo and you can snowball off of that, I think that is only kind of true this season. There's just so much gold to be had if you play one of the multitude of junglers that can one combo camps at full health, it gives you so much more oppertunity to keep your team in the game if you can just out gold everyone in it while controlling the river because you have so much free time. Sometimes you might get that level 2 gank for your mid lane Ori and it ends up shes not that great so she loses anyway, but it's too late, you already made the choice not to invest in yourself before the game started by picking a slow farmer.
You can win in solo with almost anything if you are good enough or improving enough to outplay your current rank, but being able to flash farm jungle camps will let you hit your power spikes and earn objectives for your team on a more consistant basis than hoping your top laner follows up on your flash e>q or even just is able to control his lane with the bonus gold he gets if the gank works.
I have a Swain question. On Champion.gg the most common skill order is q > w > e. E only gives dmg now with the flat 205 dmg increase. Maxing W gives a lnger root duration and seems better to me. Any thoughts?
Personally, the most likely "non-meta" junglers that I see becoming meta are Vi, Diana, and J4, all because they carry the Ori ball really, really well, and her ult buff is pretty huge, especially when you consider she tends to build Athenes/Morellos first item. Having her ult be up for basically every team fight starting at one 20% CDR item by level 6 is insane. For arguement's sake, imagine a team comp of Rumble top, one of these 3 junglers, and Ori mid. The wombo combo is insane.
wut, Orianna is not coming back to competitive any time soon so the point it null. In competitive team don't tf very much, and at lvl 6 orianna with no AP is not doing much damage outside of ult. At at high level of play teams won't bunch up very much for those shockwaves. Why would you ever pick orianna over say viktor? lol is more complex than my mashing together wombo combos.
On August 26 2016 06:58 JonnyLaw wrote: I have a Swain question. On Champion.gg the most common skill order is q > w > e. E only gives dmg now with the flat 205 dmg increase. Maxing W gives a lnger root duration and seems better to me. Any thoughts?
I been playing tons of swain and I can confirm q>w>e these days. I also like to start q because I like to get level 2 first and teh bird does good at poke plus killing the minions. I do get e second but I max q then w then E.
No, I think Worlds will be on 6.17 or 6.18 (but without Kled and Yorick). Probably the biggest changes will be the Rek'Sai E/R cooldown nerf and the Gragas R travel time nerf, which will shake up the jungle a bit.
When I hit something in fog of war with a skillshot that normally makes a sound whenever it hits something, it no longer makes a sound. Is that a new change they introduced this patch?
On August 26 2016 06:58 JonnyLaw wrote: I have a Swain question. On Champion.gg the most common skill order is q > w > e. E only gives dmg now with the flat 205 dmg increase. Maxing W gives a lnger root duration and seems better to me. Any thoughts?
I been playing tons of swain and I can confirm q>w>e these days. I also like to start q because I like to get level 2 first and teh bird does good at poke plus killing the minions. I do get e second but I max q then w then E.
I like starting E vs melee champs. The dot and empowered autos still let me hit 2 first in most lanes.
On August 30 2016 01:18 Scip wrote: When I hit something in fog of war with a skillshot that normally makes a sound whenever it hits something, it no longer makes a sound. Is that a new change they introduced this patch?
On August 30 2016 15:40 MooMooMugi wrote: Kog is so broken right now. Might be seeing some protect the kog comps again during worlds
I dunno. After seeing RNG destroy a kog comp with a simple run fast+singed I'm not so sure. I'm pretty excited to see what junglers are going to be the most prevalent after Reksai and Gragas nerfs, I guess Elise will be P/B.
That and Kled, he can make for some rediculously entertaining plays.
kog is saddest rework riot did so far, they changed perfectly fine champion which was viable both as AD and AP into braindead a-move champ abused by scripters
is refusing to open mid reportable? had a game with 2 people ragequit at 10 minutes one had run it up mid and was 0/7. Game ended up drawn out because the sup morg would just wave clear and enemy farmed her and the adc for kda.
not asking as QQ thing, just weird as in this situation I not sure what rules are on games that are clearly lost and people refuse to ff.
playing with a 'gg this game is fucked lets open mid' mentality should be bannable imo. why play the game if you tilt that easily? one of the things i liked more about dota; theres no surrender button. you could be playing 4v5 but due to no surrender you play till the end anyway, and some teams will still find a way to win.
On August 31 2016 11:02 MuddyJam wrote: is refusing to open mid reportable? had a game with 2 people ragequit at 10 minutes one had run it up mid and was 0/7. Game ended up drawn out because the sup morg would just wave clear and enemy farmed her and the adc for kda.
not asking as QQ thing, just weird as in this situation I not sure what rules are on games that are clearly lost and people refuse to ff.
Obviously not reportable. It is sad when people like wasting time but can't really do much about it (not that reporting does anything anyway). There aren't really any "rules" to opening mid.
I cant quite understand something regarding the rune system. Why they vary so much in price? If one subset of runes (e.g. MR glyphs) are equal in value as another subset from the same kind (e.g. CDR glyphs) then why the price gap? and vice-verse if the expensive ones bring more value, then where goes Riot's policy of IP/RP buys not influencing game balance?
Who knows anymore. The rune system is so antiquated that it needs a massive overhaul. Problem is that needs an off season to fix but Riot loves reinventing the jungle and/or masteries every year.
Now, if we're talking "value", that's entirely different. Things like MR glyphs are a very general thing. You can stick them in almost any rune page on any champion and they'd be okay. Riot can afford them being a low value IP sink because everybody wants them. When it comes to CDR glyphs, in either form, not many champions want them. You'll probably get some mages(I think? Been a while since I've looked at mid runes), AD Casters like Riven, and possibly junglers so it doesn't make much sense for Riot to make them available cheap. By having their IP costs high they can capitalize on the few times they'll be purchased. Though some runes are just straight garbage and cost too much so idk.
On August 31 2016 15:01 evilfatsh1t wrote: playing with a 'gg this game is fucked lets open mid' mentality should be bannable imo. why play the game if you tilt that easily? one of the things I liked more about dota; theres no surrender button. you could be playing 4v5 but due to no surrender you play till the end anyway, and some teams will still find a way to win.
IF the game has TWO afk (of which YOU ARE NEITHER and they have actively ragequit not dc'd) at 13 minutes and you are down 6k gold and you refuse to believe the game is lost and "you just need to not tilt" and you can win 3v5 your an straight up idiot i'm sorry. You shouldn't tilt in situations relating to bad or toxic team or you personally falling behind but applying it to the a situation here is stupid. Your basically saying if you have a 4v5 at minions spawn and games offers a remake it should be bannable to click yes. You say if your a player down you just stop tilting.
You can have the mindset of "i will never surrender" but then claiming it should be bannable of all things if people have better things to do than play out a 3v5 makes me think you have no idea of the game.
Plz end this discussion here I don't want this to turn into a QQ thread
On August 31 2016 15:01 evilfatsh1t wrote: playing with a 'gg this game is fucked lets open mid' mentality should be bannable imo. why play the game if you tilt that easily? one of the things I liked more about dota; theres no surrender button. you could be playing 4v5 but due to no surrender you play till the end anyway, and some teams will still find a way to win.
IF the game has TWO afk (of which YOU ARE NEITHER and they have actively ragequit not dc'd) at 13 minutes and you are down 6k gold and you refuse to believe the game is lost and "you just need to not tilt" and you can win 3v5 your an straight up idiot i'm sorry. You shouldn't tilt in situations relating to bad or toxic team or you personally falling behind but applying it to the a situation here is stupid. Your basically saying if you have a 4v5 at minions spawn and games offers a remake it should be bannable to click yes. You say if your a player down you just stop tilting.
You can have the mindset of "i will never surrender" but then claiming it should be bannable of all things if people have better things to do than play out a 3v5 makes me think you have no idea of the game.
Plz end this discussion here I don't want this to turn into a QQ thread
I can already tell you how this is going to go. You're going to argue against the strawman of "no one should ever give up under any circumstances whatever". You come up with unbelievably extreme scenarios where there is literally negative chance of winning. "What if you are 3v5 at 13 minutes and down 6k gold? What if you lost every single structure, they are all full build, and you just accidentally sold all your items and don't know how to undo? What if Riot OIafs your champion on live and also everyone on the other team is release Xin Zhao?"
Then the other side is going to argue against the strawman of "I hate people who surrender as soon as anything bad happens." They come up with stupid scenarios like "this one time someone started an ff vote because we gave up first blood. This one time someone ragequit after missing a cs." As if because 1% of the time, they came back to win, that justifies wasting time in the other 99% of games.
The only real way this discussion moves forward is if you take all the games you think should have been surrendered, but weren't, against all of the games you think should not have been given up on, but were - do you have more games in the first category or the second? I think for me it's about 30/70 towards the latter. Especially in ranked, I rarely feel like my team refuses to give up, but I do often feel like my mid (and it's always my mid) goes apeshit for pretty stupid reasons.
On August 31 2016 23:22 GrandInquisitor wrote: You come up with unbelievably extreme scenarios where there is literally negative chance of winning. "What if you are 3v5 at 13 minutes and down 6k gold?
The discussion was, in these EXTREME situations isn't it best to just concede and aren't you wasting your teammates time by playing it out?
What are some good tip/guide for learning Yasuo? I always feed on him. Would I just have to learn him on a second ID with way lower MMR?
@Alaric No take it as you didn't read what I had written and instead posted generic stuff about never giving up. So with people not discussing what I said and instead talking at each other rather than to the discussion is pointless.
Totally depends on your goal for playing each game of league. What if you goal is to practice mechanically with said champion and now you can do it with the pressure off of winning and try to make plays? What if you don't have time to start another game so you want to get as much fun out of that game as you can?
You are being narcissistic (which is not uncommon, in fact far more common than thinking that others may not want exactly what you want, or whats best for you especially online) to think that because you think the best course of action is to open mid, that it is the best. Being mad at others for basically doing what they signed up for when they entered the queue, playing the game till they win or lose is you being a ass. And you are totally QQing just in a passive aggressive manner. Basically your first post was how can I get people to feel sorry for poor me for not only losing a game when maybe I could have won but then it taking longer then I wanted it too. WAHHHH, first world problems are real.
Your mistake is thinking that there are unacceptable gameplay decisions in response to frustration and anger. Lets stipulate that the game is decided to no fault of persons 1-3 because of afk feeders 4, 5. If person 1 wants to /dance his anger away, 2 wants to all in his lane opponent over and over, and 3 wants to piss off the enemy team by infinite wave clearing as Anivia those are all reasonable ways to deal with the frustration. That should be fairly non-controversial.
On top of that, IMO I'd say if one goes on a 40 page racist, sexist, homophobic tirade thats got to be severely discounted. Probably not even counted on the record.
On August 31 2016 23:59 MuddyJam wrote: What are some good tip/guide for learning Yasuo? I always feed on him. Would I just have to learn him on a second ID with way lower MMR?
The same as all champions pretty much, spam games. He has quite a few dashes through camps in the jungle you should learn too, I'd imagine there's videos about them on YouTube.
Watching some Voyboy Yasuo games (think there's plenty on his YouTube channel) could be helpful too, he's usually pretty good at explaining why/what he's doing and is a pretty good Yasuo player too.
On September 01 2016 01:00 cLutZ wrote: Your mistake is thinking that there are unacceptable gameplay decisions in response to frustration and anger. Lets stipulate that the game is decided to no fault of persons 1-3 because of afk feeders 4, 5. If person 1 wants to /dance his anger away, 2 wants to all in his lane opponent over and over, and 3 wants to piss off the enemy team by infinite wave clearing as Anivia those are all reasonable ways to deal with the frustration. That should be fairly non-controversial.
On top of that, IMO I'd say if one goes on a 40 page racist, sexist, homophobic tirade thats got to be severely discounted. Probably not even counted on the record.
There certainly are unacceptable gameplay decisions in response to frustration and anger. If I miss my first cs and respond by intentionally feeding for the rest of the game, it should be non-controversial that that's an unreasonable response.
This is exactly the point I was trying to get at. We can throw strawman examples at each other all day and it doesn't do anything. On the whole, though, I find my teammates on average give up too early instead of giving up too late.
On August 31 2016 20:25 Gahlo wrote: Who knows anymore. The rune system is so antiquated that it needs a massive overhaul. Problem is that needs an off season to fix but Riot loves reinventing the jungle and/or masteries every year.
Now, if we're talking "value", that's entirely different. Things like MR glyphs are a very general thing. You can stick them in almost any rune page on any champion and they'd be okay. Riot can afford them being a low value IP sink because everybody wants them. When it comes to CDR glyphs, in either form, not many champions want them. You'll probably get some mages(I think? Been a while since I've looked at mid runes), AD Casters like Riven, and possibly junglers so it doesn't make much sense for Riot to make them available cheap. By having their IP costs high they can capitalize on the few times they'll be purchased. Though some runes are just straight garbage and cost too much so idk.
they've already stated that runes are getting an overhaul after the new client launches
On August 31 2016 23:59 MuddyJam wrote: What are some good tip/guide for learning Yasuo? I always feed on him. Would I just have to learn him on a second ID with way lower MMR?
This tip applies to all champions but especially to Yasuo: stop trying to make great plays whenever you can. Yasuo has huge outplay potential which often baits Yasuo players into taking fights they shouldn't. My winrates on Janna and Tristana increased greaty after I stopped trying to insec enemy champions in every teamfight.
On August 31 2016 23:59 MuddyJam wrote: What are some good tip/guide for learning Yasuo? I always feed on him. Would I just have to learn him on a second ID with way lower MMR?
This tip applies to all champions but especially to Yasuo: stop trying to make great plays whenever you can. Yasuo has huge outplay potential which often baits Yasuo players into taking fights they shouldn't. My winrates on Janna and Tristana increased greaty after I stopped trying to insec enemy champions in every teamfight.
I disagree with this. Yasuo is a champion that relies heavily on his outplay potential, not trying to make them means you're not going to learn them. It'd be like trying to learn Riven and not trying combos or Lee Sin without wards.
yeah yasuo needs to outplay people with fancy dashes and knockups and shit. otherwise hes a melee adc who just gets wrecked as he tries to auto people (why are you even playing him)
I meant you should learn his basics first before doing shit like ulting your lane opponent under tower just because your max range tornado hit him. I don't think Yasuo is like Riven who has to get fed early to be useful. You can leave the lane with no kills and still carry the game. Most Yasuos I met don't understand that.
But yeah I agree with cLutZ, every time you pick that champion an innocent kitten dies
@all how long does it take to level an account now that xp for each level has been lowered?
Way too long still, I'm trying to level an account to play only Vayne but it's like a chore.
I didn't know that autofill also applied to Normal Draft . At least instead of waiting 30 minutes for a stomp where I can't practice the champion I want, I can wait 5 minutes for a role I didn't pick.
Who knows anymore. The rune system is so antiquated that it needs a massive overhaul. Problem is that needs an off season to fix but Riot loves reinventing the jungle and/or masteries every year.
That is so true. I hope they leave masteries alone this season, after the recent nerfs they seem to be in a good spot, runes need to become more accessible, it's already a drag acquiring all the champions, and the total amount of IP you have to spend just keeps going up.
While players will eventually try all kinds of skill orders, we try and make sure that for a player trying a champion for the first time, maxing Q is a decent choice.
Is there any champion in the game where maxing Q first is really bad? Off the top of my head I can only think of Fiddlesticks and Anivia.
Another interesting question along the same lines is this:
What champion suffers the most if you are forced to max EWQ?
While players will eventually try all kinds of skill orders, we try and make sure that for a player trying a champion for the first time, maxing Q is a decent choice.
Is there any champion in the game where maxing Q first is really bad? Off the top of my head I can only think of Fiddlesticks and Anivia.
Another interesting question along the same lines is this:
What champion suffers the most if you are forced to max EWQ?
theres a bunch but the worst i can think of
for Q -fizz -rammus -shaco -talon -shyvana -kogmaw
for EWQ
again a lot of champions are pretty bad with EWQ but the ones that drop off the hardest from the bad skill order from what I can think of are
(alot of marksman/ranged characters had bad EWQ orders but eh at least they are ranged)
On September 02 2016 07:47 kongoline wrote: plenty of champions actually jax,fizz,irelia, lux, garen amumu, shyv etc
Q max on Jax is not unusual - certainly in a matchup like Jax v Ekko you want to maxing Q for the reduced leap cooldown. Won't disagree with the others, though it's not really the end of the world if you max Q on most of them.
I think the other category of "worst Q maxers" are the tanky junglers with a Q dash like Amumu and Sejuani. But even Vi is good with a Q max.
On September 02 2016 07:47 kongoline wrote: plenty of champions actually jax,fizz,irelia, lux, garen amumu, shyv etc
Q max on Jax is not unusual - certainly in a matchup like Jax v Ekko you want to maxing Q for the reduced leap cooldown. Won't disagree with the others, though it's not really the end of the world if you max Q on most of them.
I think the other category of "worst Q maxers" are the tanky junglers with a Q dash like Amumu and Sejuani. But even Vi is good with a Q max.
Once upon a time Q max was the way to go on both Sej and Amumu as well
I think overwhelmingly E tends to be utility skills; there are a few champs where you max E and they tend to be mages (Lux, Malz, Viktor) and then everyone else gets E last, but even among champs that max E or W, maxing Q isn't actually terrible. For champs that don't max Q, it's rarely because Q is pure utility. Malz and Fiddle and maybe Twitch? But they can all be fine with a Q 2nd max, whereas out of the champs that max E last, a lot of them have some flexibility on Q or W first, and then it is definitely E last (e.g. Sivir)
#1 champ that gets most boned by EWQ is probably Nocturne since E and W do nothing.
Sej, yes. Amumu, never. Not even the beta. This was before there were any jungle items and people were trying to jungle with champions besides Nunu and WW. Amumu E first for dmg reduction.
Maybe for ARAM. But Q max is real bad for every other game mode. It's 1 second of CD and 25-40 damage. E is more AD and 40 shield. W is 55 damage and more slow and more passive move speed. Q CD is long enough you're unlikely to get >1 in a fight without heavy CDR anyway (min value is 10, same as E). I would say that E max is probably better for ARAM now too
Back in the day when you could play Janna as AP you would max Q only until you could clear a wave and then W. You can't ever really clear a wave with it now though. And it was much better then in terms of per-level strength.
At some point you'd put 2 points into E for Amumu's first clear, then max Q. Maybe it wasn't the optimal build, but when you built some AP on him (that was post spirit stone introduction though) and maxed Q you'd just gank people and explode them.
On September 03 2016 06:05 NeoIllusions wrote: Sej, yes. Amumu, never. Not even the beta. This was before there were any jungle items and people were trying to jungle with champions besides Nunu and WW. Amumu E first for dmg reduction.
tears if you started blue E if you did dan dinh route
On September 03 2016 08:29 Goumindong wrote: Maybe for ARAM. But Q max is real bad for every other game mode. It's 1 second of CD and 25-40 damage. E is more AD and 40 shield. W is 55 damage and more slow and more passive move speed. Q CD is long enough you're unlikely to get >1 in a fight without heavy CDR anyway (min value is 10, same as E). I would say that E max is probably better for ARAM now too
Back in the day when you could play Janna as AP you would max Q only until you could clear a wave and then W. You can't ever really clear a wave with it now though. And it was much better then in terms of per-level strength.
Qmax was the build on him for a few seasons. You got 2 in E, 1 in W for clear, then Q max.
Riot didn't like it because Mummy would nearly 2shot botlane.
On September 03 2016 08:29 Goumindong wrote: Maybe for ARAM. But Q max is real bad for every other game mode. It's 1 second of CD and 25-40 damage. E is more AD and 40 shield. W is 55 damage and more slow and more passive move speed. Q CD is long enough you're unlikely to get >1 in a fight without heavy CDR anyway (min value is 10, same as E). I would say that E max is probably better for ARAM now too
Back in the day when you could play Janna as AP you would max Q only until you could clear a wave and then W. You can't ever really clear a wave with it now though. And it was much better then in terms of per-level strength.
Qmax was the build on him for a few seasons. You got 2 in E, 1 in W for clear, then Q max.
Riot didn't like it because Mummy would nearly 2shot botlane.
LOL.
Yeah I remember some ratio/base damage nerfs specifically directed at stopping amumu from just flash RQ to pick up double kills bot basically solo.
Bandage toss had a 1.0 but you still maxed it second even on full ap builds like the Azingy build.
Q max just farms way to slow, you could get like whatever number of kills you want to name but having to choose between auto attacking or spending all of your mana to clear one camp, vs. E max, spamming e and being tankier for free, it's actually not even a question if you tried it even once.