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[Patch 5.20] League of Legends General Discussion - Page 18

Forum Index > LoL General
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killerdog
Profile Joined February 2010
Denmark6522 Posts
October 26 2015 15:29 GMT
#341
On October 26 2015 23:58 Ansibled wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2015 23:44 killerdog wrote:
I remember someone saying the koreans all played windowed, and had a notepad doc with timings on the screen beside the game.

Only benefit i can think of of going windowed unless your monitor is like 28''+

Not everyone does, Faker plays full screen I'm pretty sure.

Oh, not saying they all do. Just that i heard a few were doing it on some talk show age ago
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
October 26 2015 15:56 GMT
#342
The point of playing in windowed is that you see more in your field of vision - but it is also more demanding on your mouse accuracy.

I think the only LoL I can think of who plays in windowed mode is piglet. It is unclear if it actually helps your gameplay.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Ansibled
Profile Joined November 2014
United Kingdom9872 Posts
October 26 2015 16:00 GMT
#343
On October 27 2015 00:56 Sufficiency wrote:
The point of playing in windowed is that you see more in your field of vision - but it is also more demanding on your mouse accuracy.

I think the only LoL I can think of who plays in windowed mode is piglet. It is unclear if it actually helps your gameplay.

It's not really more demanding on mouse accuracy I think, you can always adjust mouse speed to be the same for both windows right?
'StarCraft is just a fairy tale told to scare children actually.'
TL+ Member
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
October 26 2015 16:17 GMT
#344
On October 27 2015 01:00 Ansibled wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2015 00:56 Sufficiency wrote:
The point of playing in windowed is that you see more in your field of vision - but it is also more demanding on your mouse accuracy.

I think the only LoL I can think of who plays in windowed mode is piglet. It is unclear if it actually helps your gameplay.

It's not really more demanding on mouse accuracy I think, you can always adjust mouse speed to be the same for both windows right?


I think you are probably right.

Regardless, I don't think it is worthwhile.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
killerdog
Profile Joined February 2010
Denmark6522 Posts
October 26 2015 22:48 GMT
#345
On October 27 2015 01:00 Ansibled wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2015 00:56 Sufficiency wrote:
The point of playing in windowed is that you see more in your field of vision - but it is also more demanding on your mouse accuracy.

I think the only LoL I can think of who plays in windowed mode is piglet. It is unclear if it actually helps your gameplay.

It's not really more demanding on mouse accuracy I think, you can always adjust mouse speed to be the same for both windows right?


You go from having maybe an inch range of spots where your thresh hook would hit to half an inch, you definitely have to be more precise.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
October 27 2015 01:46 GMT
#346
--- Nuked ---
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
October 27 2015 02:12 GMT
#347
On October 27 2015 10:46 JimmiC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2015 15:09 killerdog wrote:
On October 26 2015 13:34 Sufficiency wrote:
On October 26 2015 12:13 cLutZ wrote:
iCanada I'd still like to see his litany of sources, if they exist.

Also, Ketara/Suff I disagree. They aren't really making great decisions because IMO Riot has a great deal of groupthink. Its not just in the tribunal stuff (where I would say they need to be much more targeted, and give better notice to what they are targeting), it happens with champion releases/reworks, the LCS format, and how they generally get very defensive on Ask.fm, twitter, reddit, etc. It appears to me that often they have never heard these criticisms until after the patch/announcement goes live. They are a big company (personnel wise) but it appears that each department needs an outside voice that is actually listened to. I have a friend who is a Sr. Dev at NCSoft and he would be perfect for shaking up Riot in a positive way, but he tells me their hiring process actually perpetuates this situation.


Maybe. But honestly all teams have this problem more or less and it's not the most crucial problem Riot has right now.

Going back to the PR training part, let's look at this askfm post by Lyte for a moment:

http://ask.fm/RiotLyte/answer/132562353346

Someone asked Lyte what happened to the 4v5 compensation system Lyte promised from ~1 year ago.

Lyte basically said the following:

1. 4v5 compensation is no longer being developed.
2. Here are some totally unrelated stuff that we did develop to distract you!
3. 4v5 happens rarely, so we decided to do "some other more important stuff" instead.

The third point is interesting because I have done an analysis on this too and I basically agree with his statement. So as far as the statement itself is concerned I believe he is speaking the truth - 4v5, objectively, is not the biggest issue with the game right now. The problem is that you should NEVER say to the customers (the players) matter-of-fact-ly that the customers' concerns are "not important". It's mind-bogglingly bad PR.

I think in this instance, Lyte spoke extremely poorly. I don't think the problem here is with groupthink; the problem here is his lack of "business mindset" and - sorry this sounds harsh - empathy. I really think he should stop using his askfm.

You may argue that I am basically saying the same thing on my analysis, but I do not work for Riot and I am (generally speaking) a nobody, so it's not comparable. Interestingly, every time my analysis gets mentioned (either by me or posted by someone else) there are a lot of very emotionally charged responses - because 4v5 sucks and it is a problem. This is something which I didn't grasp really well when I originally wrote the analysis myself. I, too, lacked empathy approaching this issue and could have phrased certain things better.

if someone afk's at the 10 or 12 minute mark, I'd count that as a 4v5 too, and I've had that happen in definitely >2-3% of my games in the last month or two.

People getting mad because someone said something, or did something, or whatever then just abandoning an even/winning game.


I've started saying "kiddie must have skipped his nap and now he's taking his ball and going home" when people quit mid game I've fpund quite offer if I ignore or mute anything they say after I say that they are often shamed back into playing. Unless some other child is inet fighting with them over what ever nothing that happens and caused the rage over a perceived mistake in a video game.

How very toxic of you.

Also, Suff, I think your thought that Lyte should get a media ban from Riot is more right every post he makes.

Comparing LOL to a workplace? You do know the most analogous workplaces (sports locker rooms) would make your system explode, right Lyte?
Freeeeeeedom
crimethinking
Profile Joined February 2015
Vietnam765 Posts
October 27 2015 02:35 GMT
#348
This Lyte guy must have an EQ of negative. The more he speaks, the more delusional I feel he is.
ktrolster | OMG | worldelite
krndandaman
Profile Joined August 2009
Mozambique16569 Posts
October 27 2015 02:42 GMT
#349
--- Nuked ---
AlterKot
Profile Blog Joined January 2014
Poland7525 Posts
October 27 2015 02:54 GMT
#350
Unless you're the big guy who could beat the one you called a faggot. Sadly LoL doesn't benefit people who were born big and gives everyone this useless mute button instead
Americans don't like to use unblockables, it is considered not honest. You press a button at the wrong time and hit the other person, you are random, not a top player. You DP Sim's far fierce, it is random and not honest.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-27 03:00:52
October 27 2015 03:00 GMT
#351
Regardless of "how bad" it was, Lyte really needs to lay off his askfm. It has spawned several controversies so far because he either "misspoke" or straight up said some very PR unfriendly things.

On a basic level, I get it: Riot wants to have deeper, more accessible communication to the players. But IMO this approach is failing because you can't really expect people like Lyte (and to a lesser extent, Ghostcrawler) to speak on behalf of the entire company and do a good job at it.

Lyte has his brilliance, now get him to work on things he should be working on instead of wasting his time on social media.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
GrandInquisitor *
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
New York City13113 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-27 03:37:28
October 27 2015 03:24 GMT
#352
Definitely having one of those "wtf is everyone else smoking" moments. Lyte is right on with that post 100%, and I feel like you could only disagree with him if you're mad that you're banned or something. I mean for fuck's sake, even Reddit is uniformly supporting Lyte for once, and the thread was even posted during EUW toxicity hour.

I also think it's funny that clutz tries to compare it to a sports locker room, because that pretty much shows that he's never actually been in a sports locker room for one second as a member of a real sports team. It was a huge NFL controversy when Ryan Tannehill said "Enjoy your practice squad paychecks". Imagine if he had said the same shit that you'd need to say to get reported in League, then walked off the field mid-game and refused to play. Oh wait, Percy Harvin did that, and got kicked off the team right after. See also Rich Incognito:

According to Schefter, the final straw for the Dolphins was a highly graphic voicemail Incognito left in April 2013, in which Incognito called Martin a "half-nigger piece of shit," threatened to slap Martin's mother across the face and even uttered a death threat against Martin. Until then, the Dolphins had publicly maintained the charges against Incognito were pure speculation. Schefter said that as late as the afternoon of November 3, the Dolphins didn't even know the voicemail existed. Within hours of hearing the tape, Schefter said, the Dolphins had suspended Incognito. The next day, a Dolphins source told The Miami Herald that Incognito will never play another down for the Dolphins again, and that the team intends to cut ties with him at the earliest opportunity.


There really is no real-world environment where people get to be such assholes to each other like they are in video games, and get away with it. Not a single one. It's just always been accepted that gaming communities were shitholes (think Xbox Live). But Riot is the first ever gaming company to my knowledge to ever actually do something about this in a systematic way, and the first mover is always going to meet resistance.

The best part about all of this is that Lyte is actively hurting Riot's bottom line. Defending, supporting, and funding Lyte amounts to banning many of your biggest customers. They stand up for Lyte, probably the single-most-hated Riot employee, even when getting rid of him would make tons of players happy and earn Riot (in the short term) a lot more money. That shows just how important Riot believes developing their community is.
What fun is it being cool if you can’t wear a sombrero?
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
October 27 2015 03:40 GMT
#353
On October 27 2015 11:12 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2015 10:46 JimmiC wrote:
On October 26 2015 15:09 killerdog wrote:
On October 26 2015 13:34 Sufficiency wrote:
On October 26 2015 12:13 cLutZ wrote:
iCanada I'd still like to see his litany of sources, if they exist.

Also, Ketara/Suff I disagree. They aren't really making great decisions because IMO Riot has a great deal of groupthink. Its not just in the tribunal stuff (where I would say they need to be much more targeted, and give better notice to what they are targeting), it happens with champion releases/reworks, the LCS format, and how they generally get very defensive on Ask.fm, twitter, reddit, etc. It appears to me that often they have never heard these criticisms until after the patch/announcement goes live. They are a big company (personnel wise) but it appears that each department needs an outside voice that is actually listened to. I have a friend who is a Sr. Dev at NCSoft and he would be perfect for shaking up Riot in a positive way, but he tells me their hiring process actually perpetuates this situation.


Maybe. But honestly all teams have this problem more or less and it's not the most crucial problem Riot has right now.

Going back to the PR training part, let's look at this askfm post by Lyte for a moment:

http://ask.fm/RiotLyte/answer/132562353346

Someone asked Lyte what happened to the 4v5 compensation system Lyte promised from ~1 year ago.

Lyte basically said the following:

1. 4v5 compensation is no longer being developed.
2. Here are some totally unrelated stuff that we did develop to distract you!
3. 4v5 happens rarely, so we decided to do "some other more important stuff" instead.

The third point is interesting because I have done an analysis on this too and I basically agree with his statement. So as far as the statement itself is concerned I believe he is speaking the truth - 4v5, objectively, is not the biggest issue with the game right now. The problem is that you should NEVER say to the customers (the players) matter-of-fact-ly that the customers' concerns are "not important". It's mind-bogglingly bad PR.

I think in this instance, Lyte spoke extremely poorly. I don't think the problem here is with groupthink; the problem here is his lack of "business mindset" and - sorry this sounds harsh - empathy. I really think he should stop using his askfm.

You may argue that I am basically saying the same thing on my analysis, but I do not work for Riot and I am (generally speaking) a nobody, so it's not comparable. Interestingly, every time my analysis gets mentioned (either by me or posted by someone else) there are a lot of very emotionally charged responses - because 4v5 sucks and it is a problem. This is something which I didn't grasp really well when I originally wrote the analysis myself. I, too, lacked empathy approaching this issue and could have phrased certain things better.

if someone afk's at the 10 or 12 minute mark, I'd count that as a 4v5 too, and I've had that happen in definitely >2-3% of my games in the last month or two.

People getting mad because someone said something, or did something, or whatever then just abandoning an even/winning game.


I've started saying "kiddie must have skipped his nap and now he's taking his ball and going home" when people quit mid game I've fpund quite offer if I ignore or mute anything they say after I say that they are often shamed back into playing. Unless some other child is inet fighting with them over what ever nothing that happens and caused the rage over a perceived mistake in a video game.

How very toxic of you.

Also, Suff, I think your thought that Lyte should get a media ban from Riot is more right every post he makes.

Comparing LOL to a workplace? You do know the most analogous workplaces (sports locker rooms) would make your system explode, right Lyte?


I actually thought his post was completely reasonable.

The only part of it that might be a little insensitive is comparing playing a game to work. When we talk about pro players being toxic its a legitimate example. When we talk about casual players being toxic, better examples could have been used.


But the message is there and is totally accurate. All they are trying to do is get people to behave online the way they are expected to in real life. That is understandable, admirable, and applaudable.


The "sports locker rooms" analogy is an old one and reeks of bullshit. Even if it were true (debatable), its not the standard you want to be held to. Nobody thinks that the professional sports industry isn't toxic in this regard, and in recent years there have been huge public protests and boycotts to stop the exact kind of behavior you're describing.

It's like saying "well that guy gets away with calling people faggots I should too" when he actually didn't get away with it and nobody thinks its okay for either of you to be doing.

If by some misguided reasoning you do think it's okay, its time for your wakeup call. Nobody else does and eventually you will be forced to change your behavior.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
October 27 2015 04:19 GMT
#354
@GI I disagree with your assertion in degree only. Yelling at teammates when they underperform is part of being a teammate. And those two examples you made are actually closer to the feeder/afker than the flamer (Usually a Brady/Ray Lewis or other team leader does that, and in your face). These are reasons why i think they need to tell us what the line is (also so we can criticize that line honestly) and. Imo its too low. Also when did /r/lol consensus become a good thing? I read the tip comments and they were all just bloodthirsty kids, honestly I'd rather be in a game with flamers.

@Kr Its not like pickup, because trolls get thrown out, and shitty players. In fact, this is why the entire concept of online toxicity/ relating it to talk life situations is a total farce: People complain that the language is due to the anonymity, but it should be less painful for that same reason, and its fundamentally caused because you can't confront someone in any other way than words, and if they ignore reasonable words sometimes people get salty.

@Ket I don't flame, I don't need to reevaluate, but IMO, I think the language-crusaders have very much more mental problems than flamers, in aggregate. It is a totalitarian mindset that I just don't like spreading, even if Riot is totally within thier rights to enforce it in thier own sphere.
Freeeeeeedom
AlterKot
Profile Blog Joined January 2014
Poland7525 Posts
October 27 2015 04:25 GMT
#355
Can I get a banbet with Ketara going that I won't be forced to change my behaviour in next 5 years?
Americans don't like to use unblockables, it is considered not honest. You press a button at the wrong time and hit the other person, you are random, not a top player. You DP Sim's far fierce, it is random and not honest.
krndandaman
Profile Joined August 2009
Mozambique16569 Posts
October 27 2015 04:26 GMT
#356
--- Nuked ---
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
October 27 2015 04:26 GMT
#357
--- Nuked ---
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
October 27 2015 04:30 GMT
#358
On October 27 2015 13:25 AlterKot wrote:
Can I get a banbet with Ketara going that I won't be forced to change my behaviour in next 5 years?


No.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
October 27 2015 04:35 GMT
#359
On October 27 2015 13:19 cLutZ wrote:
@GI I disagree with your assertion in degree only. Yelling at teammates when they underperform is part of being a teammate. And those two examples you made are actually closer to the feeder/afker than the flamer (Usually a Brady/Ray Lewis or other team leader does that, and in your face). These are reasons why i think they need to tell us what the line is (also so we can criticize that line honestly) and. Imo its too low. Also when did /r/lol consensus become a good thing? I read the tip comments and they were all just bloodthirsty kids, honestly I'd rather be in a game with flamers.

@Kr Its not like pickup, because trolls get thrown out, and shitty players. In fact, this is why the entire concept of online toxicity/ relating it to talk life situations is a total farce: People complain that the language is due to the anonymity, but it should be less painful for that same reason, and its fundamentally caused because you can't confront someone in any other way than words, and if they ignore reasonable words sometimes people get salty.

@Ket I don't flame, I don't need to reevaluate, but IMO, I think the language-crusaders have very much more mental problems than flamers, in aggregate. It is a totalitarian mindset that I just don't like spreading, even if Riot is totally within thier rights to enforce it in thier own sphere.


If its totalitarian then real life is totalitarian. Because real life works this way.

I think the idea that people who don't want toxicity in their games are therefore have more mental problems than people who want to be toxic is ridiculous. Neither standpoint shows any indication that people have such problems.


Are you trying to say that I'm mentally disabled because I don't want to be called a faggot? That's ridiculous.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
October 27 2015 05:17 GMT
#360
On October 27 2015 13:35 Ketara wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2015 13:19 cLutZ wrote:
@GI I disagree with your assertion in degree only. Yelling at teammates when they underperform is part of being a teammate. And those two examples you made are actually closer to the feeder/afker than the flamer (Usually a Brady/Ray Lewis or other team leader does that, and in your face). These are reasons why i think they need to tell us what the line is (also so we can criticize that line honestly) and. Imo its too low. Also when did /r/lol consensus become a good thing? I read the tip comments and they were all just bloodthirsty kids, honestly I'd rather be in a game with flamers.

@Kr Its not like pickup, because trolls get thrown out, and shitty players. In fact, this is why the entire concept of online toxicity/ relating it to talk life situations is a total farce: People complain that the language is due to the anonymity, but it should be less painful for that same reason, and its fundamentally caused because you can't confront someone in any other way than words, and if they ignore reasonable words sometimes people get salty.

@Ket I don't flame, I don't need to reevaluate, but IMO, I think the language-crusaders have very much more mental problems than flamers, in aggregate. It is a totalitarian mindset that I just don't like spreading, even if Riot is totally within thier rights to enforce it in thier own sphere.


If its totalitarian then real life is totalitarian. Because real life works this way.

I think the idea that people who don't want toxicity in their games are therefore have more mental problems than people who want to be toxic is ridiculous. Neither standpoint shows any indication that people have such problems.


Are you trying to say that I'm mentally disabled because I don't want to be called a faggot? That's ridiculous.

Not that you don't want to be called a fag, that you feel it affects you negatively enough to think there should be a non-equivalent response. What really the cause of internet toxicity, is the same reason that people always compare it to playing sports: it requires a competitive mindset. In sports through, you channel the frustration that comes with losing (inherent to the state of mind) into physical channels as well and it gives most players a release. I don't play, for instance, unless I have worked out or gone for a walk because typing cusses is most certainly not a release for me, but I do see how it could be for someone, so I have more sympathy for that emotion, because its inherent to the game, and I don't want a teammate (even virtual) who isn't upset by losing.
Freeeeeeedom
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