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On February 25 2015 09:14 Ryuu314 wrote:
should be RIP kassadin patch imo
Riot didn't just Olaf Kassadin, they gave him the S1 Eve treatment. maybe if Kassadin had his pre-nerf Q/W/E this change might be okay.
But now why the fuck would you play Kassadin when you can play Nid: farm better, poker better, sustain better, have more mobility, have resets on that mobility, AND have your mobility cost no mana. Nid also probably does more melee damage than Kassadin too.
It's also hilarious that Riot's trying to justify the nerf by saying the mana cost reduction is supposed to make up for it. It costs something like 3 times as much mana with new ult to cover the same amount of ground as old ult plus it takes longer lol
It's also really stupid that they always try to "compensate" for buffs with nerfs elsewhere when the champion could just do with a straight up buff. Specifically, Morde. They lower his health costs to help him out, then chop his health regen by more than half...also lowered his W damage too...plus his ult ghost does less damage until you hit level 16. He'd probably be better off if they didn't change anything. Actually, he most definitely would've been better off if Riot did nothing. These "compensation buffs" for losing DFG look more like nerfs than anything.
Olafing is leaving them in a shitty state, and it's not giving him the Eve treatment without removing fundamental parts of the kits. I predict that this will be met with some slight damage un-nerfs next patch, but Riot was just too scared to give him back damage when people do funny things with the range of blinks as it is.
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Aaand I keep rising and rising on reddit. Currently #5.
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On February 25 2015 09:50 Gahlo wrote:
Aaand I keep rising and rising on reddit. Currently #5.
Upvoting cuz I like you, but I'm so happy about chilling nerfs <3
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On February 25 2015 09:37 DNeon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 09:14 Ryuu314 wrote:
should be RIP kassadin patch imo
Riot didn't just Olaf Kassadin, they gave him the S1 Eve treatment. maybe if Kassadin had his pre-nerf Q/W/E this change might be okay.
But now why the fuck would you play Kassadin when you can play Nid: farm better, poker better, sustain better, have more mobility, have resets on that mobility, AND have your mobility cost no mana. Nid also probably does more melee damage than Kassadin too.
It's also hilarious that Riot's trying to justify the nerf by saying the mana cost reduction is supposed to make up for it. It costs something like 3 times as much mana with new ult to cover the same amount of ground as old ult plus it takes longer lol
It's also really stupid that they always try to "compensate" for buffs with nerfs elsewhere when the champion could just do with a straight up buff. Specifically, Morde. They lower his health costs to help him out, then chop his health regen by more than half...also lowered his W damage too...plus his ult ghost does less damage until you hit level 16. He'd probably be better off if they didn't change anything. Actually, he most definitely would've been better off if Riot did nothing. These "compensation buffs" for losing DFG look more like nerfs than anything. Olafing is leaving them in a shitty state, and it's not giving him the Eve treatment without removing fundamental parts of the kits. I predict that this will be met with some slight damage un-nerfs next patch, but Riot was just too scared to give him back damage when people do funny things with the range of blinks as it is.
how is cutting the range of his ult by over a third not essentially removing fundamental parts of the kit? Kassadin is all about his ult. that's the whole point of the champion. 450 range is shorter than the auto attack range for literally every ranged champion in the game except for Thresh. ffs his Q outranges his ult's jump -.-
I also want to point out that the nerfs that made Olaf unplayable was the removal of passive armor pen and some cooldown increases. The Eve treatment was the continuous gutting of every aspect of Eve's kit. She got stat reductions (Kassadin got these), nerfs on every single skill except one (Eve's Ravage was never nerfed; similarly, Kassadin's W is arguably better now than before), and had the single most important aspect of her kit nerfed into the ground (Kassadin just got this).
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Our initial goal was to let you change strategic course in the early game without incurring a setback, but most were just using it to switch to the "best" lategame smite before picking up their enchant.
They wanted strategic diversity and people were using it as such, but because they used it optimally it needs to be removed? Like, did they expect that people would just use it inefficiently just for fun?
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Need to rep the Kat profile before its gone foreva.
Her "nerf" seems pretty situational, not too worried.
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United States47024 Posts
On February 25 2015 08:09 General_Winter wrote:
Yeah, with fast patches, I would like to see some small numbers to push champion diversity. For example,they could just take the 5% of champions with the lowest win % and 5% of champions with the lowest pick rates and add 1 to all their damages 30/40/50/60/70+50%AP ==> 31/41/51/61/71+50%AP.
Buffs like that would never make bad champions great, or even good, but they could make them less bad. I feel like it would be a big win if instead of bad champs winning 42% of the time they won 46% of the time. That's still enough to be bad and discourage play riot doesn't like, but its not enough to inspire the feeling of hopelessness if you happen to like the aesthetic of a bad champ.
TLDR: with frequent patches they should be making large numbers of trivially small changes
The problem is that for the most part, people tend to follow trends and fads. The smaller the changes you make, the longer it takes for them to get noticed, which means the longer it takes for gameplay data to reflect your changes.
In practice, we've seen that if a champ gets over-buffed through a bunch of little changes over several months, it takes far longer for people to realize it than if they get a huge rework that instantly makes them OP. Which means that if you buffed/nerfed this way, you'd see a ton of rubberbanding where stuff would constantly get overbuffed and overnerfed this way because of how long it takes people to realize it.
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I laughed at the Bard thing.
+ Show Spoiler + We’ve looked at the idea of roaming supports before. Alistar was one, for a while, before he roamed so well you guys transitioned him into a death-dealing jungler thanks to his nigh on unstoppable W+Q combo and extreme tower diving capabilities. So we made changes, nerfed his extra monster damage, and put him back in his traditional support pants
Riot treats the player base innovating like parent treats a mischievous youth who is misbehaved. Now now, Rito knows best. Follow the rules or we'll have to start taking away privileges.
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On February 25 2015 09:50 Gahlo wrote:
Aaand I keep rising and rising on reddit. Currently #5.
imo the bigger problem is that Riot is allergic to buffing champions. or at the very least, simply reverting past nerfs.
It's like they think it reflects badly on them if they revert nerfs or something. Reverting nerfs doesn't mean they're admitting they fucked up. Rather, it's more that the game is constantly evolving. What was a good decision several patches or seasons ago may not be a good idea now.
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On February 25 2015 10:01 remedium wrote:
Need to rep the Kat profile before its gone foreva.
Her "nerf" seems pretty situational, not too worried.
it hurts her team fight a lot. if you don't have ignite up then your ability to zhonyas and wait for a reset is basically gone
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On February 25 2015 10:13 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 09:50 Gahlo wrote:
Aaand I keep rising and rising on reddit. Currently #5. imo the bigger problem is that Riot is allergic to buffing champions. or at the very least, simply reverting past nerfs. It's like they think it reflects badly on them if they revert nerfs or something. Reverting nerfs doesn't mean they're admitting they fucked up. Rather, it's more that the game is constantly evolving. What was a good decision several patches or seasons ago may not be a good idea now.
Revert the goddamn Eve Q nerf already.
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On February 25 2015 10:17 Frolossus wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 10:01 remedium wrote:
Need to rep the Kat profile before its gone foreva.
Her "nerf" seems pretty situational, not too worried. it hurts her team fight a lot. if you don't have ignite up then your ability to zhonyas and wait for a reset is basically gone
I like the change, but I think they have to compensate a little somehow. She's losing her effectiveness to get those triple/quadra clean ups, which just snowball from there. I think she could benefit from a little reward somewhere.
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On February 25 2015 10:24 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 10:17 Frolossus wrote:On February 25 2015 10:01 remedium wrote:
Need to rep the Kat profile before its gone foreva.
Her "nerf" seems pretty situational, not too worried. it hurts her team fight a lot. if you don't have ignite up then your ability to zhonyas and wait for a reset is basically gone I like the change, but I think they have to compensate a little somehow. She's losing her effectiveness to get those triple/quadra clean ups, which just snowball from there. I think she could benefit from a little reward somewhere.
laning phase please rito
having killer instinct back or the old Q targeting would be perfect
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How does one lane as Draven effectively?
I know that Draven has a lot of damage in his kit, but I'm never sure when I should be going ahead and throwing axes at my lane opponents. I mean obviously if they hit you, you hit them back, but when are some other times that I can be aggressive? When they go for CS? When their support whiffs a skill shot? When my support lands a skill shot?
Any other Draven tips would be much appreciated as well! I don't play bottom lane much, but I have a desire to learn to at least be a passable ADC.
And yes I understand that there are (much?) easier ADC's to learn. But I'd rather get good with Draven because Draven is fun and he has the best mustache.
Also apologizes moderators if I posted this in the wrong sub-forum. I was thinking about posting this in the simple questions, simple answers thread, but I'm not sure if this question is suitable for that thread.
Thanks in advance!
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Another patch of "Does riot even play their own game"
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i just don't understand how champs like lee sin and nid can skate by with 0 or baby nerfs time after time but with kass they hit him 2 patches in a row and this last one go extremely overboard 250 range? that's a fucking joke
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On February 25 2015 10:48 IamPryda wrote:
i just don't understand how champs like lee sin and nid can skate by with 0 or baby nerfs time after time but with kass they hit him 2 patches in a row and this last one go extremely overboard 250 range? that's a fucking joke
lee sin was gutted from his release version
nidalee on the other hand i'm not sure
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On February 25 2015 10:48 IamPryda wrote:
i just don't understand how champs like lee sin and nid can skate by with 0 or baby nerfs time after time but with kass they hit him 2 patches in a row and this last one go extremely overboard 250 range? that's a fucking joke
lee sin is fucking terrible
nidalee is pretty toxic in terms of gameplay but she's not high winrate/OP
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
R - Riftwalk
RANGE 700 ⇒ 450
so they really let this one through. rip
EVENT PLANNING Appears instantly ⇒ Now has a 0.75 second delay before appearing
LOL
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On February 25 2015 10:05 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2015 08:09 General_Winter wrote:
Yeah, with fast patches, I would like to see some small numbers to push champion diversity. For example,they could just take the 5% of champions with the lowest win % and 5% of champions with the lowest pick rates and add 1 to all their damages 30/40/50/60/70+50%AP ==> 31/41/51/61/71+50%AP.
Buffs like that would never make bad champions great, or even good, but they could make them less bad. I feel like it would be a big win if instead of bad champs winning 42% of the time they won 46% of the time. That's still enough to be bad and discourage play riot doesn't like, but its not enough to inspire the feeling of hopelessness if you happen to like the aesthetic of a bad champ.
TLDR: with frequent patches they should be making large numbers of trivially small changes The problem is that for the most part, people tend to follow trends and fads. The smaller the changes you make, the longer it takes for them to get noticed, which means the longer it takes for gameplay data to reflect your changes. In practice, we've seen that if a champ gets over-buffed through a bunch of little changes over several months, it takes far longer for people to realize it than if they get a huge rework that instantly makes them OP. Which means that if you buffed/nerfed this way, you'd see a ton of rubberbanding where stuff would constantly get overbuffed and overnerfed this way because of how long it takes people to realize it.
All hail the Ziggs buffs got in like three patches in a row last season.
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EPT
