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On February 13 2015 21:46 739 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2015 21:29 nafta wrote:
Err is veigar Q gonna be like lux?It says that the skillshot stops at 2nd target hit lol.If the stun isn't too easy to handle he should be pretty good. Wondering how is this going to work? If it means it's gonna work like Lux's Q, does it mean that if I lasthit 2 minions with Q, I'm gonna get +2 AP ?
I think so. That's why the CD is going up by 1 sec. Max rank, it's 25% less casts per minute, but if you can hit 2 minions every other time, it's still a buff as far as farming goes.
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Yaaaay everything can be a skillshot and then Kallista can rule the rift
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Baa?21248 Posts
Riot once again proving that no one actually knows how Veigar works.
Veigar is absolutely not, despite what Q might lead you to believe, a late-game oriented burst mage. He's a mid-game oriented mage that starts to have serious kill threat that ramps up until level 16, after which he drops off significantly as people start getting BV/QSS/tank items. At that point, the extra ~100-200 AP you get is completely nullified by the fact that YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO DO ANYTHING without Event Horizon. Except now, with these changes, the time period where Veigar does nothing starts at approximately level 1 and lasts until your Nexus explodes 
Awful, awful changes. This is why I never wanted Riot to actually touch Veigar cause I knew they'd ruin him.
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Pantheon reworked into skillshot Q to make his oppressive laning healthier where?
Because that's pretty in line with their expressed goals, means and pet peeves so far, and it would also be in line with how they demonstrate that they rarely fully grasp what is brought by something.
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Yeah as an occasional support Veigar player, I won't ever be using him again after his E is changed to a delay time. .75 seconds is long despite sounding so short, and unless they reduce the fall delay on his W he likely won't hit that either. Riot sorta messed that one up, oh well there's plenty of other Namis in the ocean.
Oh yeah and the Mord rework is a straight nerf, no sugar-coating that one. We now have a consensus worst champion in the league now, yay!
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I feel like while the Q and R changes make sense to me, and while the E change frankly also makes sense, the E change is going to hurt.
As is if Veigar "traps you" in his stun like they're talking about, you can usually dodge the W or flash out or get away from the damage somehow. The way Veigar combos you is by either hiding in a bush, or doing the instant stun with E.
Unless you're a squishy champion with zero mobility, how is Veigar gonna get you now?
Saying that the Morde changes are a nerf when they didn't post any numbers is really hyperbolic btw. No game bashing without proof!
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Reducing damage when he brings no CC to the table is a nerf. All he has is damage.
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Okay so, lets say they reduce his damage by 10%
And increase the strength of his shield by 5000%
Is that a nerf?
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Yes, because they reduced his damage.
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OK so I must say that I quite like skillshots and mobility and I wonder if Riot will take the decisive step to make it so that there are even more skillshots so that you can zone people from dodging in certain areas rather than "just use target spells to deal with blinks".
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On February 14 2015 00:46 Zdrastochye wrote:
Yes, because they reduced his damage.
So you are telling me that a Mordekaiser that does 100 damage and has a 100 HP self shield is better than a Mordekaiser that does 90 damage, has a 5000 HP shield, and can also give that 5000 HP shield to an ally.
Please stop trolling GD.
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Then you also shouldn't do stupid examples, Ketara.
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Yes, because Morde is already very weak. He has no mobility, very short range, and his damage doesn't scale well past midgame (in terms of sustained damage).
If he snowballs he's very hard to deal with because he tanks through a lot and his damage is relevant, but if he doesn't then he's very easy to kite, won't hurt that much, and he doesn't deal much damage to tanky people if he has to fight the frontline to get to the rest.
It's kinda how Brand is subpar compared to almost every mage because although his burst is decent if he hits his stuff (skillshot/bounces mechanic-reliant means he does better in skirmishes than full-blown teamfights or dealing with minion waves in the way too), he doesn't bring much more to the table, and relying on combos makes his sustained damage weaker (sure he has higher ratio than Ziggs for QEWR on 2 people for example, but Ziggs or Syndra can spam spells on a sub-4s cooldown, with better reliability and similar or higher range).
On the other hand if you buff Brand's burst further to move him toward "burst AoE teamfight mage" compared to "sustained AoE damage" ones, it'll have to be broken to make up for the weaknesses. So you can't really do these numbers changes on him (you can, but they can't be as impactful as you'd need to bring him back).
I'm also concerned about what they mean by "depending if you get a mage or marksman ghost it's not the same": is it litteral? Was it to illustrate how different champs build different stats and as such grant different benefits?
If it's litteral then it'll also be another example of enforcing things, and another kick to the principle of "elegant design" they already slashed several times recently.
Ketara, you're overreacting again.
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On February 14 2015 00:52 Fildun wrote:
Then you also shouldn't do stupid examples, Ketara.
I do a stupid example to point out that you can't say whether or not it's going to be a buff or a nerf until they post numbers, because the numbers could be tuned either way to such a degree that it would change whether or not it's a buff or a nerf.
If Morde can get bigger shields to such a degree that those shields are really ridiculously strong, and give those shields to his ADC, for all we know he might end up a dominant Support pick. And that's just the point, you don't know, so don't bash it.
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On February 14 2015 00:51 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2015 00:46 Zdrastochye wrote:
Yes, because they reduced his damage. So you are telling me that a Mordekaiser that does 100 damage and has a 100 HP self shield is better than a Mordekaiser that does 90 damage, has a 5000 HP shield, and can also give that 5000 HP shield to an ally. Please stop trolling GD.
Show me examples of buffs that come close to those valuations and I'll never post in GD or on LL again. Or you could stop kneejerk backseat modding and we could discuss this like adults. The Mord changes will end up being a nerf as presently stated, and that's all I'm conveying right now.
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Bearded Elder29905 Posts
On February 14 2015 00:55 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2015 00:52 Fildun wrote:
Then you also shouldn't do stupid examples, Ketara. I do a stupid example to point out that you can't say whether or not it's going to be a buff or a nerf until they post numbers, because the numbers could be tuned either way to such a degree that it would change whether or not it's a buff or a nerf. If Morde can get bigger shields to such a degree that those shields are really ridiculously strong, and give those shields to his ADC, for all we know he might end up a dominant Support pick. And that's just the point, you don't know, so don't bash it.
I doubt that. Giving shield only mechanics won't make him a dominant support pick. With no CC on his kit, nerfing his dmg potential and even buffing his shield, he will stay as a trash tier soloqueue champ.
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He gets a bigger passive HP shield when building HP (see Naut), and receives the benefits of his W ability resistances shield if he casts it on an ally.
He can already grant said shield to his allies. It may receive better scaling since Riot said they were looking at buffing his sustained damage but reduce his burst, which generally entails shifting damage from nuke abilities to periodic damage ones (like his W), remove damage from burst combo components while reducing their cooldown to make up for it over time, or generally transfer damage, like make his whole ult a DoT rather than half-burst, half-DoT.
There's no need to jump on people when you confused two abilities in their wording.
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On February 14 2015 01:07 Alaric wrote:
He gets a bigger passive HP shield when building HP (see Naut), and receives the benefits of his W ability resistances shield if he casts it on an ally.
He can already grant said shield to his allies. It may receive better scaling since Riot said they were looking at buffing his sustained damage but reduce his burst, which generally entails shifting damage from nuke abilities to periodic damage ones (like his W), remove damage from burst combo components while reducing their cooldown to make up for it over time, or generally transfer damage, like make his whole ult a DoT rather than half-burst, half-DoT.
There's no need to jump on people when you confused two abilities in their wording.
The problem is that by taking damage off of his burst, and adding it to his over time, means you can still nullify him by kiting him. If they take damage from Q/E and add it to his W, it makes getting out of his melee range even more of a nerf. I could see them buffing his base movespeed to compensate, but versing high mobility champions will continue to be his downfall.
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Yup, that's what I said: he's weak for other reasons atm, and what they want to change about him doesn't seem to address his issues. I simply pointed out to Ketara that he got confused over the shields they were talking about.
Also you don't play support Galio despite his W being huge in terms of EHP.
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I don't think you guys are getting my gripe.
Saying that a champion is going to be "the worst champion in league of legends" based on a Riot post that includes no hard changes or actual data is something that people should be getting warned for.
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EPT
