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On September 21 2013 02:06 TheYango wrote:
Q plants are ranged and so are easier to trade with in lane.
Also, in either case you should be maxing both nukes, not leaving Q for last. Base damage on a support is still good even if you're not scaling it through items.
Could there be some merit in starting E against worse opponents (I'm silver 5 or something)? I often chunk people down really low with my adc at level 2 with an EW because people don't dodge roots for some reason. Or maybe start E if you're going to invade at lvl1?
In any case, I've always maxed E->W->Q because I basically only really use Q to set up plants in brushes and key locations to trade/zone. I've always thought my root was my biggest asset in both teamfights and in lane, and most if not ~all of my damage is from plants. Maxing W second maximizes both the root (more CDR) and plant (more seeds so more opportunity to harass/trade with plants).
Guessing that's the worse way to play it then?
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On September 21 2013 02:08 AsnSensation wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 02:02 onlywonderboy wrote:
No Janna is kinda surprising considering the popularity of diving assassins. Zyra and Sona are simply too good. Very strong in lane, insane dmg early already while janna just sits there doing nothing significant. Also surprised that we haven't seen a Blitzcrank yet.
First say that janna just sits in lane and does nothing
then you are surprised Blitzcrank hasn't been picked yet
Scip is confused
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On September 21 2013 02:11 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 02:08 AsnSensation wrote:On September 21 2013 02:02 onlywonderboy wrote:
No Janna is kinda surprising considering the popularity of diving assassins. Zyra and Sona are simply too good. Very strong in lane, insane dmg early already while janna just sits there doing nothing significant. Also surprised that we haven't seen a Blitzcrank yet. Clearly you haven't seen a Janna properly played, I can guarantee you, you don't just sit there and do nothing.
When you other team takes Zyra.
Zyra has 66% winrate with 18 games Sona has 33% with 15* games. Supports are pigeonholing into those two way too hard. (Zyra probably deserves it though.)
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On September 21 2013 01:57 Seuss wrote:Here are all the champions played so far in their respective positions. A champion name in parenthesis indicates that they should not be counted, as they have appeared somewhere else on the list (e.g. Lissandra): - Top: Kennen, (Lissandra), Malphite, Nasus, Renekton, Rumble, Shen, Shyvana, Singed, Vladimir, Yorick, Zac
- Jungle: Aatrox, Elise, Evelynn, Jarvan, Lee Sin, Nocturne, Vi, Xin Zhao
- Mid: Ahri, Diana, Gragas, Fizz, Jayce, Karthus, Kassadin, Lissandra, Nidalee, Orianna, Ryze, Swain, Twisted Fate, Zed
- ADC: Ashe, Caitlyn, Corki, Ezreal, Kog'maw, Miss Fortune, Tristana, Vayne, Varus
- Support: Fiddlesticks, Leona, Lulu, Nami, Thresh, Sona, Zyra
Feel free to double check. I wouldn't want to miss anything. From this point on I'll be including bans. If there's an obvious joke ban we can discuss it later.
Here are some champs that haven't been played, but I think will show up still in either bans/picks
Alistar, Amumu, Annie, Blitz, Cho'gath, Mundo, Graves, Janna, Jax, Kayle, Lux, Nautilus, Rengar, Sej, Talon, Twitch.
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On September 21 2013 02:14 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 01:57 Seuss wrote:Here are all the champions played so far in their respective positions. A champion name in parenthesis indicates that they should not be counted, as they have appeared somewhere else on the list (e.g. Lissandra): - Top: Kennen, (Lissandra), Malphite, Nasus, Renekton, Rumble, Shen, Shyvana, Singed, Vladimir, Yorick, Zac
- Jungle: Aatrox, Elise, Evelynn, Jarvan, Lee Sin, Nocturne, Vi, Xin Zhao
- Mid: Ahri, Diana, Gragas, Fizz, Jayce, Karthus, Kassadin, Lissandra, Nidalee, Orianna, Ryze, Swain, Twisted Fate, Zed
- ADC: Ashe, Caitlyn, Corki, Ezreal, Kog'maw, Miss Fortune, Tristana, Vayne, Varus
- Support: Fiddlesticks, Leona, Lulu, Nami, Thresh, Sona, Zyra
Feel free to double check. I wouldn't want to miss anything. From this point on I'll be including bans. If there's an obvious joke ban we can discuss it later. A quick thing I notice from this list. ADC is in a pretty good place, most have got played. Quinn and graves only ones missing correct (lucian not available) Then some buff or something needed for non ranged supports. with only leona seeing play.
I seriously hope you don't thinks this. Corki is beyond fucking broken right now.
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On September 21 2013 02:11 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 02:08 AsnSensation wrote:On September 21 2013 02:02 onlywonderboy wrote:
No Janna is kinda surprising considering the popularity of diving assassins. Zyra and Sona are simply too good. Very strong in lane, insane dmg early already while janna just sits there doing nothing significant. Also surprised that we haven't seen a Blitzcrank yet. Clearly you haven't seen a Janna properly played, I can guarantee you, you don't just sit there and do nothing.
Yep totally never seen a good janna 
Tell me what she does better in a 2v1 than Sona or Zyra?
Also any zyra/sona lane beats a janna lane, whereas janna could have been a good counter to yellowstars leona.
On September 21 2013 02:15 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 02:08 AsnSensation wrote:On September 21 2013 02:02 onlywonderboy wrote:
No Janna is kinda surprising considering the popularity of diving assassins. Zyra and Sona are simply too good. Very strong in lane, insane dmg early already while janna just sits there doing nothing significant. Also surprised that we haven't seen a Blitzcrank yet. First say that janna just sits in lane and does nothing then you are surprised Blitzcrank hasn't been picked yet Scip is confused
Because I consider Blitz a real playmaking champ and imagine a lot of the supports to have practice on him compared to janna who probably nobody practiced in the last few weeks.
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Leona seeing a lot of play has a lot to do with nRated(yellowstars former support) being a sick leona, and when he went support, he knew a lot of leona already.
Corki Leona being an absolutely monstrous lane in terms of kill threat helps too because past a certain point in becomes really dangerous to harass the leona.
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On September 21 2013 02:17 AsnSensation wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 02:11 wei2coolman wrote:On September 21 2013 02:08 AsnSensation wrote:On September 21 2013 02:02 onlywonderboy wrote:
No Janna is kinda surprising considering the popularity of diving assassins. Zyra and Sona are simply too good. Very strong in lane, insane dmg early already while janna just sits there doing nothing significant. Also surprised that we haven't seen a Blitzcrank yet. Clearly you haven't seen a Janna properly played, I can guarantee you, you don't just sit there and do nothing. Yep totally never seen a good janna Tell me what she does better in a 2v1 than Sona or Zyra? Also any zyra/sona lane beats a janna lane, whereas janna could have been a good counter to yellowstars leona. Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 02:15 Scip wrote:On September 21 2013 02:08 AsnSensation wrote:On September 21 2013 02:02 onlywonderboy wrote:
No Janna is kinda surprising considering the popularity of diving assassins. Zyra and Sona are simply too good. Very strong in lane, insane dmg early already while janna just sits there doing nothing significant. Also surprised that we haven't seen a Blitzcrank yet. First say that janna just sits in lane and does nothing then you are surprised Blitzcrank hasn't been picked yet Scip is confused Because I consider Blitz a real playmaking champ and imagine a lot of the supports to have practice on him compared to janna who probably nobody practiced in the last few weeks.
Janna is fine in 2v1's, her clear is stronger than sona's in 2v1. Maybe not as good as zyra, but she also does better at fending off ganks than zyra. Her passive isn't to be underestimated as well.
I see her being possibly picked against Leona or Nami lanes.
On September 21 2013 02:20 Amui wrote:
Leona seeing a lot of play has a lot to do with nRated(yellowstars former support) being a sick leona, and when he went support, he knew a lot of leona already.
Corki Leona being an absolutely monstrous lane in terms of kill threat helps too because past a certain point in becomes really dangerous to harass the leona.
Corki with any support at triforce timing is fucking bonkers as fuck. I don't think it's specific to leona + corki combo.
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On September 21 2013 02:14 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 01:57 Seuss wrote:Here are all the champions played so far in their respective positions. A champion name in parenthesis indicates that they should not be counted, as they have appeared somewhere else on the list (e.g. Lissandra): - Top: Kennen, (Lissandra), Malphite, Nasus, Renekton, Rumble, Shen, Shyvana, Singed, Vladimir, Yorick, Zac
- Jungle: Aatrox, Elise, Evelynn, Jarvan, Lee Sin, Nocturne, Vi, Xin Zhao
- Mid: Ahri, Diana, Gragas, Fizz, Jayce, Karthus, Kassadin, Lissandra, Nidalee, Orianna, Ryze, Swain, Twisted Fate, Zed
- ADC: Ashe, Caitlyn, Corki, Ezreal, Kog'maw, Miss Fortune, Tristana, Vayne, Varus
- Support: Fiddlesticks, Leona, Lulu, Nami, Thresh, Sona, Zyra
Feel free to double check. I wouldn't want to miss anything. From this point on I'll be including bans. If there's an obvious joke ban we can discuss it later. A quick thing I notice from this list. ADC is in a pretty good place, most have got played. Quinn and graves only ones missing correct (lucian not available) Then some buff or something needed for non ranged supports. with only leona seeing play.
This exposes the basic problem with this exercise. Listing every champion that was banned/picked once isn't a complete measure of champion diversity. For a better picture we need to also look at how many times each champion was picked and banned.
I haven't compiled that data as it isn't relevant to the Monte vs CSheep throwdown, but I'll probably begin doing so tonight during the breaks between games.
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United States23745 Posts
On September 21 2013 02:14 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 01:57 Seuss wrote:Here are all the champions played so far in their respective positions. A champion name in parenthesis indicates that they should not be counted, as they have appeared somewhere else on the list (e.g. Lissandra): - Top: Kennen, (Lissandra), Malphite, Nasus, Renekton, Rumble, Shen, Shyvana, Singed, Vladimir, Yorick, Zac
- Jungle: Aatrox, Elise, Evelynn, Jarvan, Lee Sin, Nocturne, Vi, Xin Zhao
- Mid: Ahri, Diana, Gragas, Fizz, Jayce, Karthus, Kassadin, Lissandra, Nidalee, Orianna, Ryze, Swain, Twisted Fate, Zed
- ADC: Ashe, Caitlyn, Corki, Ezreal, Kog'maw, Miss Fortune, Tristana, Vayne, Varus
- Support: Fiddlesticks, Leona, Lulu, Nami, Thresh, Sona, Zyra
Feel free to double check. I wouldn't want to miss anything. From this point on I'll be including bans. If there's an obvious joke ban we can discuss it later. A quick thing I notice from this list. ADC is in a pretty good place, most have got played. Quinn and graves only ones missing correct (lucian not available) Then some buff or something needed for non ranged supports. with only leona seeing play.
Sivir
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I'm suprised we haven't seen Graves yet when Dlift seems convinced he's a counter to Corki.
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On September 21 2013 02:27 Slusher wrote:
I'm suprised we haven't seen Graves yet when Dlift seems convinced he's a counter to Corki.
Probably can't use triforce well, that's why. lol.
No real graves players in group stages.
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On September 21 2013 02:25 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 02:14 JimmiC wrote:On September 21 2013 01:57 Seuss wrote:Here are all the champions played so far in their respective positions. A champion name in parenthesis indicates that they should not be counted, as they have appeared somewhere else on the list (e.g. Lissandra): - Top: Kennen, (Lissandra), Malphite, Nasus, Renekton, Rumble, Shen, Shyvana, Singed, Vladimir, Yorick, Zac
- Jungle: Aatrox, Elise, Evelynn, Jarvan, Lee Sin, Nocturne, Vi, Xin Zhao
- Mid: Ahri, Diana, Gragas, Fizz, Jayce, Karthus, Kassadin, Lissandra, Nidalee, Orianna, Ryze, Swain, Twisted Fate, Zed
- ADC: Ashe, Caitlyn, Corki, Ezreal, Kog'maw, Miss Fortune, Tristana, Vayne, Varus
- Support: Fiddlesticks, Leona, Lulu, Nami, Thresh, Sona, Zyra
Feel free to double check. I wouldn't want to miss anything. From this point on I'll be including bans. If there's an obvious joke ban we can discuss it later. A quick thing I notice from this list. ADC is in a pretty good place, most have got played. Quinn and graves only ones missing correct (lucian not available) Then some buff or something needed for non ranged supports. with only leona seeing play. Sivir
owb pls
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On September 21 2013 02:28 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 02:27 Slusher wrote:
I'm suprised we haven't seen Graves yet when Dlift seems convinced he's a counter to Corki. Probably can't use triforce well, that's why. lol. No real graves players in group stages.
Turtle is, and I would guess San is considering Graves was a high priority pick in LPL for a while.
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Spellshield rockets all day. ezpz npnp
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On September 21 2013 01:57 Seuss wrote:Here are all the champions played so far in their respective positions. A champion name in parenthesis indicates that they should not be counted, as they have appeared somewhere else on the list (e.g. Lissandra): - Top: Kennen, (Lissandra), Malphite, Nasus, Renekton, Rumble, Shen, Shyvana, Singed, Vladimir, Yorick, Zac
- Jungle: Aatrox, Elise, Evelynn, Jarvan, Lee Sin, Nocturne, Vi, Xin Zhao
- Mid: Ahri, Diana, Gragas, Fizz, Jayce, Karthus, Kassadin, Lissandra, Nidalee, Orianna, Ryze, Swain, Twisted Fate, Zed
- ADC: Ashe, Caitlyn, Corki, Ezreal, Kog'maw, Miss Fortune, Tristana, Vayne, Varus
- Support: Fiddlesticks, Leona, Lulu, Nami, Thresh, Sona, Zyra
Feel free to double check. I wouldn't want to miss anything. From this point on I'll be including bans. If there's an obvious joke ban we can discuss it later.
Snoy played Nidalee top vs Vulcun.
I suppose for the sake of completeness Darien has played Aatrox top, as well.
I believe we may have seen a top Elise (not sure)?
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Doublelift has also repeatedly picked Ezreal into Vayne, Caitlin or Draven lol..
Definitely would be interested to hear his reasoning though, maybe he thinks the 10 free armor/mr counter corki, but wouldn't that apply to every matchup. Graves is oom after 2-3 buckshots though while Corki missiles all day errrday.
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United States23745 Posts
On September 21 2013 02:29 xes wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 02:25 onlywonderboy wrote:On September 21 2013 02:14 JimmiC wrote:On September 21 2013 01:57 Seuss wrote:Here are all the champions played so far in their respective positions. A champion name in parenthesis indicates that they should not be counted, as they have appeared somewhere else on the list (e.g. Lissandra): - Top: Kennen, (Lissandra), Malphite, Nasus, Renekton, Rumble, Shen, Shyvana, Singed, Vladimir, Yorick, Zac
- Jungle: Aatrox, Elise, Evelynn, Jarvan, Lee Sin, Nocturne, Vi, Xin Zhao
- Mid: Ahri, Diana, Gragas, Fizz, Jayce, Karthus, Kassadin, Lissandra, Nidalee, Orianna, Ryze, Swain, Twisted Fate, Zed
- ADC: Ashe, Caitlyn, Corki, Ezreal, Kog'maw, Miss Fortune, Tristana, Vayne, Varus
- Support: Fiddlesticks, Leona, Lulu, Nami, Thresh, Sona, Zyra
Feel free to double check. I wouldn't want to miss anything. From this point on I'll be including bans. If there's an obvious joke ban we can discuss it later. A quick thing I notice from this list. ADC is in a pretty good place, most have got played. Quinn and graves only ones missing correct (lucian not available) Then some buff or something needed for non ranged supports. with only leona seeing play. Sivir owb pls
He didn't say viable ADCs, he just asked if that was all xD.
Sivir same AA range as Jayce, JUST SAYIN.
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BT burst on Graves is actually higher than Triforce burst mabye?
I am curious why he thinks it's such a good match up, the other night when he brought it up he said it was good for Graves then corrected himself to say it was a counter, so he seems to think it's a great pick for some reason.
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ELO hell is when you don't have any idea what are good things to do and I think I'm in it.
Also I play a lot of graves and it works pretty well consistently in lane with his allin combo being insane as balls with constant good aa's (for the engadgement) the disruption of his smoke cloud and the burst of his close buckshot and ult both also being aoe.
The reason why graves bt burst is mad cray is beacuse his ult and buckshot are both aoe monsters and he can do good aa's with his dash up.
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EPT
