EPTWhy are gamers such unpleasant people? - Page 5
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ItchReliever
2489 Posts
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ItchReliever
2489 Posts
On April 12 2009 11:10 InToTheWannaB wrote: Well your right about the lack of empathy part. I just disagree with the idea that "its not human nature to be a dickhead" as you say. The strong living off the weak is not only human nature, it is nature. I think your underestimating just how scary a world with no law or way to inforce laws would be. You feel empathy for strangers because the safety of modern life lets you. If that safety ever vanished you just watch how quickly you'd stop caring about the feelings of others. Yourself and your family will be all that matters. Do you think vikings ever felt ashamed about sacking a city, or killing people? I guess you can call them assholes if you want, but the world they lived in is very different then what we live in. Acts like that was just a part of everyday life. Kill or be killed, thats nature. what are you trying to say, because we can indoctrinate people to believe in ridiculous things like killing other people, killing other people is not so bad? i think people only become assholes if they lived a bad life. like they were picked on, or they watched some guys drive off in a mercedes when his family was hungry, etc. if a kid was grown in a loving home and not spoiled and loved by his friends and family, there is about 0% chance he turns out to be an asshole. | ||
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ItchReliever
2489 Posts
On April 11 2009 04:25 Pieguy314 wrote: Although that image was quite funny please don't try to generalize people by their age. Many TL'ers (including myself) are 14 and you don't see us acting like retards on messageboards/games/youtube wow we have kids crying about being discriminated now haha | ||
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Salv
Canada3083 Posts
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Sonu
Canada577 Posts
On April 09 2009 06:39 SonuvBob wrote: ![[image loading]](http://i39.tinypic.com/inzs4j.png) well that thing isnt true. I remember when I was 14 I was the one stopping 26 year old weed smokers from insulting ppl. Not all 14 year old gamers are bad mannered.. but 90% of them are  | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
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InToTheWannaB
United States4770 Posts
On April 12 2009 11:27 ItchReliever wrote: What im saying is its not human nature to feel empathy for strangers. In modern times we have been indoctrinated with the morality to feel sorry for others people. The laws of men allow this, but if that law ever vanished. Well then just like on the internet people would revert to there most basic selves. You can call them bad people, asshole, dicks, whatever. I just call it human nature.what are you trying to say, because we can indoctrinate people to believe in ridiculous things like killing other people, killing other people is not so bad? i think people only become assholes if they lived a bad life. like they were picked on, or they watched some guys drive off in a mercedes when his family was hungry, etc. if a kid was grown in a loving home and not spoiled and loved by his friends and family, there is about 0% chance he turns out to be an asshole. | ||
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omfghi2u2
United States831 Posts
On April 09 2009 06:43 latent wrote: I wonder what it's like with Korean online games. Hmm...I should ask someone. They just speak korean instead of english? | ||
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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
On April 12 2009 11:18 ItchReliever wrote: insecurity is the single most dominant reason why anybody any where can be an ass. if you are confident then you don't feel threatened and don't get defensive. instead you're relaxed and happy. Why do people believe in crap like this? This is still a myth created by psychologists a long time ago and is far from a fact and is not even widely accepted among psychologists today. Studies have shown that bullies have average or above average self esteem in general and no proofs have been laid out on where these so called "insecurities" would come from. I think the problem is that psychologists refuse to acknowledge heritage as a real factor and instead tries to define people using only their experiences, unless of course they are mentally ill but you usually can't define bullies as mentally ill in any way so they had to do it in another way. So they then created this notion that bullies were just those who are extra insecure and thus needs to push down others to feel better about themselves. But using the same logic you could say that the greediest people are also the poorest... (Just using this example to show how bad of an argument it really is, since people usually get greedier the richer they are since the greed have accumulated said riches) | ||
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Phrujbaz
Netherlands512 Posts
On April 12 2009 11:52 InToTheWannaB wrote: What im saying is its not human nature to feel empathy for strangers. In modern times we have been indoctrinated with the morality to feel sorry for others people. The laws of men allow this, but if that law ever vanished. Well then just like on the internet people would revert to there most basic selves. You can call them bad people, asshole, dicks, whatever. I just call it human nature. Of course people turn into predators if their basic needs are not met. Food, water, shelter, safety, etc, all these are basic needs, and before these are met you cannot have humanity. However, for a person who has all his basic needs met for himself and his family I don't think it's human nature for him to be an ass. I think most people are decent under those circumstances. Unfortunately, not everyone. Some people are true jackasses, and can only be made to act decent under constant control and supervision (instead of meeting their needs). Trying to meet the needs of evil people to turn them into decent people is a noble but foolish quest. According to your description of what you would do if you could get away with it, it seems you are of the 'true jackass' variety instead of the 'survival jackass' variety. | ||
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Phrujbaz
Netherlands512 Posts
On April 12 2009 12:50 Klockan3 wrote: Studies have shown that bullies have average or above average self esteem in general and no proofs have been laid out on where these so called "insecurities" would come from. Lack of empathy, insecurity, and as someone mentioned before narcissism can also lead someone to being a bully. Narcissism, however, also has insecurity at its root. Eventually, of course, all of this stops having any cause at all, and bad behaviours are just knee-jerk reactions and habits etched into the brain after a long time of behaving in that way. | ||
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Leath
Canada1724 Posts
jokes  | ||
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EAGER-beaver
Canada2799 Posts
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InToTheWannaB
United States4770 Posts
On April 14 2009 02:20 Phrujbaz wrote: Of course people turn into predators if their basic needs are not met. Food, water, shelter, safety, etc, all these are basic needs, and before these are met you cannot have humanity. However, for a person who has all his basic needs met for himself and his family I don't think it's human nature for him to be an ass. I think most people are decent under those circumstances. Unfortunately, not everyone. Some people are true jackasses, and can only be made to act decent under constant control and supervision (instead of meeting their needs). Trying to meet the needs of evil people to turn them into decent people is a noble but foolish quest. According to your description of what you would do if you could get away with it, it seems you are of the 'true jackass' variety instead of the 'survival jackass' variety. OK lets bring the topic back to the internet for a moment. We see on the internet that people despite having all there basic needs met. Act, as you would say in a "evil" way. The same can be said for kids. Using these two examples I think it pretty clear that you opinion of human natrue is misguided. Humans clearly do at their heart have a need and desire to pick on the weak. You say these people are a minority("The true jackass"). I have to argue they are the majority. People today act "nice" to each other because if they do not. Then they will not have a job or be in jail. These repercussion keep civilization in-line. When these repercussion are not in place(internet, 3rd world nation ect..) We see humans time and again at their worst.. People for whatever reason deep down want to act cruelly to each others. History even shows us this. Feudal lords were often very barbaric to there serfs. They did this despite having all their basic needs met and way more security then any common man. Yet they still subjugated there fellow man because they simply could. My favorite character from Full Metal Jacket is Animal Mother because he says what he really thinks. When the platoon is stand around their dead friend and saying kind words about them. Animal Mother says "Better you then me". Thats basicly what EVERY human deep down thinks. People in reality dont give a shit about anyone but themself or their family. So relating all this back to the topic. I again, as I originally stated say its human nature to act unplesant to each other. Now since birth we have been told that kind of self love is wrong. Now if you want to take you morality and label this human behavior as wrong or evil thats fine. Then however your geting into a debate about morality and geting rather off topic. The topic is why are gamers unplesant to each other. The answer is not really a lack of empathy, or insecurity. It just human nature to be cruel to each other rather then being nice to one another . Unless being nice will advance us somehow. | ||
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rei
United States3594 Posts
On April 14 2009 09:28 InToTheWannaB wrote: People today act "nice" to each other because if they do not. Then they will not have a job or be in jail. These repercussion keep civilization in-line. When these repercussion are not in place(internet, 3rd world nation ect..) We see humans time and again at their worst.. People for whatever reason deep down want to act cruelly to each others. History even shows us this. Feudal lords were often very barbaric to there serfs. They did this despite having all their basic needs met and way more security then any common man. Yet they still subjugated there fellow man because they simply could. . Human beings live together because we all benefit from society to some degree. Think about the ancient society of stone ages, human beings hunt together, they are able to bring down bigger preys which they can not if they are soloing the prey. It is the mutual benefits of living together as a society that propel people to get along with each other. Not the repercussions. These repercussions are merely rules made by human beings to ensure the mutual benefits of a functioning society. On April 14 2009 09:28 InToTheWannaB wrote: It just human nature to be cruel to each other rather then being nice to one another . Unless being nice will advance us somehow. your example of "Feudal lords being barbaric because they simply could" to support your argument that "it is just human nature to be cruel to each other rather than being nice to one another" is a Converse Fallacy of Accident (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacies) You can not argues from a special case of "Feudal lords" to a general rule of "it is human nature to be Cruel". there are many examples of people being "nice" to each other that in no way benefit themselves. (Bob Doles jumping in the bunker to block the machine gun with his body, how does that benefit him? yet why is he being so nice to his comrades and protect them?) | ||
TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
1. Humans remember slight and the conflict more than flattery and cooperation. 2. Humans are socially conscious and love the feeling of having status in society. A large portion of achieving status in a society is outdoing the competition - putting others down, lifting one self up, etc. There is half destructive and half creative tendencies in achieving status, and people will use either to achieve as much status as possible. The problem is that if individuals are too destructive, they will destroy the society - so there are social limits on the kinds of destructive behavior any society will tolerate in its members. Societies that require more cooperation or societies that are more tightly knit tolerate less destructive - jackass behavior. Societies based on individual achievement or societies that are only loosely connected tolerate more destructive - jackass behavior. Most gaming communities don't value cooperation, so there is just no need for people to treat each other well. But there is a psychological element to it. The bad experiences stand out and make a deeper impression. | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On April 14 2009 02:21 Phrujbaz wrote: Lack of empathy, insecurity, and as someone mentioned before narcissism can also lead someone to being a bully. Narcissism, however, also has insecurity at its root. do psychologists claim that there is anything not rooted in insecurity? seems to make far more sense for a person who thinks he is awesome to actually.. think that he is awesome. | ||
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InToTheWannaB
United States4770 Posts
On April 14 2009 12:24 rei wrote: Human beings live together because we all benefit from society to some degree. Think about the ancient society of stone ages, human beings hunt together, they are able to bring down bigger preys which they can not if they are soloing the prey. It is the mutual benefits of living together as a society that propel people to get along with each other. Not the repercussions. These repercussions are merely rules made by human beings to ensure the mutual benefits of a functioning society. your example of "Feudal lords being barbaric because they simply could" to support your argument that "it is just human nature to be cruel to each other rather than being nice to one another" is a Converse Fallacy of Accident (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacies) You can not argues from a special case of "Feudal lords" to a general rule of "it is human nature to be Cruel". there are many examples of people being "nice" to each other that in no way benefit themselves. (Bob Doles jumping in the bunker to block the machine gun with his body, how does that benefit him? yet why is he being so nice to his comrades and protect them?) Well yes i suppose your correct you can't take that one example to prove it is human nature to be cruel. However what I'm fairly sure we can all agree on is that selfless acts are the rarity. Thats why they are celebrated but acts of humans doing fuck up shit to each other threw our history for no other reason then they just seem to want too. Well those are not so rare. I never claimed ever human, all the time will be cruel to each other for no reason. I am of the opinion that the majority will. I'm sure at some point in his life even Bob Dole did something cruel to another person simply because he wanted too. | ||
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rei
United States3594 Posts
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
On April 14 2009 13:39 rei wrote: For me, I always like to ask the question why. So if someone is Cruel I ask why, if i don't get a straight answer then I will search for it instead of rolling over and say "no explanation is required, it is human nature, to be cruel" If you do not seek for the answer, instead make up a rule (in your case "human nature is cruel") to accommodate for few observations in many, in terms of logical thinking ability, you are no better than the people who invented bible or people who still believe in creationism today. God made it happen. Because if you can't explain something, god must have done it. | ||
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