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Hey, I watch the TSL aswell as many other people on tl.net, I was amazingly entertained. Me and a buddy of mine watch the TSL playoffs live with joy (though I missd the grand finals cuz I had to go to work, gggrrrr). I now got a quiestion to the fellow peopel of tl.net.
I have always loved starcraft and will always love it. But I have another game that I also play that I want to bring fourth the e-sport side of it. It's warsow Im talking about (more detaild description of the game are in the spoiler below) and I think that game got's more potentioal that others dont see. Therefor I want to make a starleague or a big tourney with brodcasting just like TSL, so.
How did you manage to run TSL? What tools did you use? Where there alot of people administrating it? Was it hard getting sponsorship? Did you run the TSL from your personal computors? etc etc etc
If some/or many info's are confidential then I wont ask for it, but I ask for some hint's and/or guides to drive this kinds of stuff. Im quite new to administrating a tourney, so this will be a big project for me if I pull it off.
Well, thanks in advance.
//PetShopp
Warsow description (and thoughts):
+ Show Spoiler +From the main website: + Show Spoiler +The concept of Warsow
Warsow is a free standalone first person shooter game for Windows and Linux. It is based on the Qfusion 3D engine (a modification of the Quake 2 GPL engine), and aimed on the competitive scene, or the e-sports community.
Warsow is developped under the motto "by gamers for gamers" by a team coming from all kinds of gaming backgrounds. To attain the "by gamers for gamers" spirit, the community are our betatesters, both through internal testing sessions (with community members) and in the feedback on the public releases. We make decisions in close cooperation with the community. However, we do have our own general development direction, and therefor will carefully judge all suggestions and critique made by the community. This way we try to reach a balance between the general consensus on gameplay aspects in the community, and what we feel is best for Warsow's gameplay and concept in the development process.
The base gameplay is focussed around the art of movement, meaning moving, speed and tricks play a big part in the gameplay. Besides this, mapcontrol, aim, teamplay and fragging skills play their role too. For the movement we've basicly looked at four games: Quakeworld (legendary for it's speed), Quake3 CPMA, Jet Set Radio and Speedball.
Another twist in gameplay is Warsow's weapon system. Warsow has two firing modes for each weapon; by picking up a weapon, you will be equipped with the standard (weak) ammo for the weapon, but when you pick up an ammo pack, you will equip your weapon with special (strong) ammo. Weapons may have different damage or slightly different behaviour depending on what ammo you use: for instance: the weak electrobolt (Warsow�s rail) is a high speed projectile, whereas the electrobolt with strong ammo is instant hit. This way, not only control of health and armor plays a role, but getting strong ammo is a valid way to create a comeback.
Visually, we try to cater to the fast gameplay Warsow provides. To keep the focus on competitive gaming, visibility is an important aspect in Warsow. Using a celshaded, cartoon-like style on the maps, textures, and models we try to combine good visibility, suitable for competitive gameplay, with having a unique, attractive and personal style. We try to keep the graphic effects minimalistic, clear and visible.
We try to use Warsow as a platform to make e-sports, or competitive FPS gaming, available to a broad audience. With Warsow�s low system requirements, relatively small filesize and easy installation procedure, we try to make Warsow as accessible as possible for anyone to try out. In future versions we will focuss on this aspect more, and try to provide more support for players new to the FPS scene, by for example providing movement tutorials in the form of demos, and tutorial maps. The game is like the Quake 3 cpma mod, but with the ability to dash and make walljumps. Wich brins a much faster type of duel gameplay than some of the simulare ones (q3, ut, pk etc etc). The game was ment in the beggining to bring out an excellent e-sport game, but it has not seen the light. Many tries to bring it up by having alots of cups, in my opinion I think that holds the game together is by the comunity that want to make the game better and better. Warsow deservs a better light than it has now.
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TSL got a sponsor because TL is an amazingly popular and large community, that made it worth it for them to sponsor. If a sponsor believes your show will get views, they'll sponsor you (which seems unlikely for a game no one has heard of with no extreme level of competition like StarCraft has.
You also need money. Lots of money to broadcast it, lots of people willing to work for free to make artwork, videos, hype, etc...
I would say you've got no idea how hard it is to make something like this work, but all the power to you if you even have the ability to make it happen... Really, you're much better off doing something small scale, for you and your friends, recording with camtasia or something and putting them on youtube. TL is a powerhouse with financial backing of poker ballers and even then it wasn't easy to pull off.
Still, good luck and have fun.
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Osaka27179 Posts
Poker ballers had nothing to do with the TSL -_-;
The important thing is to initially plan everything from beginning to end before you start putting the plan into action. Figure out how you will get the players, how you will broadcast, what your budget is. Read up on the technology that will fit your goals, and make realistic expectations about how much time you can devote to it.
I agree with the above post that you may just want to start small via Camtasia and youtube, much like how we started with TLAttack before the TSL. Really though, planning everything out first is completely necessary, you dont want to be making it up as you go along otherwise you will probably fail.
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This game sounds really interesting/cool though. Mani seems right, if you could build up a following by doing more manageable/cheaper things (youtube broadcasts, etc.) then it might be more realistic to get sponsorship. You could definately use active e-sports sites to raise awareness. I bet if you work hard enough you could really make something out of this, but i doubt it will be easy until the game gets a following. I mean, there were tons of people involved in TSL.. im rambling /end
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Poker ballers had nothing to do with the TSL -_-;
Sorry :O I made the assumption because the prize pool was huge even before Razor got on board. I won't ask where the money was originally coming from, just saying that this was my presumption (and I think I read several times about Liquid.Nazgul trying to win back his own money, who I'm certain is a poker baller).
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This will sound negative, but it's just my opinion...
I think in most people's opinions FPS are not very exciting to watch, even if they have an overhead obs mode that you could broadcast. People die too fast then respawn, and it just repeats the same thing over and over again. A FP view gives you no idea where everyone else is, and an overhead view will fail to capture the skill involved in a fast/angled/distanced shot. Knowing when to switch between the two views, who to show in a FP view, when to display stats, etc would take even more skill than it does for a broadcasting starcraft observer. Our obs for TSL had practice with TLAttack, and still missed some key drops/battles/tech buildings in a few games.
Even if you think it can be successful as an esport, putting this together will take a lot of people a lot of time and practice. You'd probably need at least a half a dozen dedicated people putting in at least a couple hours a day for several months to a year to build up to it. You say you have no experience, so first you'd have to practice just setting up non-broadcasted tournaments, including setting rules, signing people up, and running things smoothly. Then you'd have to work up to a non-publicly broadcast tournament or events, so you can figure out all the technical difficulties involved in broadcasting, and figure out what service you'll broadcast with, how much bandwidth you'll need, whether you'll host replays or a delayed stream (so people can't cheat), etc.
I think the biggest problem with your game would be getting viewers and getting a sponsor. Do you have a massive following and several websites devoted to your game or FPS games in general where you could advertise and gauge interest? TSL was modeled after the Korean starleagues in how it was run and broadcast. It was set up by the premier fansite for PROFESSIONALLY BROADCAST starcraft, something your game doesn't have. Not only did we get enough advertising here and through our thousands of members, but our discussions of streamed Korean games gave sponsors an idea of the interest and the following of broadcast starcraft among English speaking fans. They got direct numbers for a ballpark idea of how many people would watch from our broadcasts of TLAttack.
If you really want to do it, and have 5-10 very dedicated people (preferably college students or adults) willing to go through all the steps to learn how to do it, and eventually do it, I guess you could do a broadcast in 6 months to a year. I think there is no chance of you getting a sponsorship for more than a couple hundred dollars, and I don't think you'll get a wide viewership, and it'll take a lot of time and money to pull off, but by all means try if you are dedicated enough.
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Sweden33723 Posts
Warsaw is an extremely fun game from my limited experience so best of luck pulling this off, sorry I can't really help much =]
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Osaka27179 Posts
About what LonelyMargarita said,
When watching RTS the action really speaks for itself, as people can see armies being made and fighting, with a clear winner (usually) in a battle. Even those who dont know the game can follow along easily and the commentator just facilitates the experience. That is why SC is so popular at live events even with WoW fans.
With games like WoW arena and more classic FPS games, the commentator is so much more important. They have to keep the viewer interested because there is no gradual buildup to see like RTS. It is 100% from beginning to end, and the commentator has to be more energetic to keep the viewer on task. Just my two cents anyway.
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On July 07 2008 08:41 Manifesto7 wrote:
They have to keep the viewer interested because there is no gradual buildup to see like RTS. It is 100% from beginning to end, and the commentator has to be more energetic to keep the viewer on task. Just my two cents anyway.
i agree with you for the most part, except for this. Of course it doesnt build up the same way as an RTS but that doesnt mean its the same all the way through. I have watched a few fatal1ty VODs on youtube and i think the excitement does sort of build up throughout the game, especially if one player has dominant map control (control of good weapons) or if one is ahead in the score. The game moves back and forth a lot, so it pretty interesting, much the same way a game of basketball is interesting. It doesn't necessarily build up, but it's still exciting. That said, i agree, commentators play a huge role in keeping the audiance engaged. And playing the game "for" something also helps (i.e. in a tournament)
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The game was ment in the beggining to bring out an excellent e-sport game, but it has not seen the light.
This is because, as far as FPS games go, Warsow is terrible. Due to the weapon system (strong/weak ammo) and the speed/maneuverability, the game is more about hunting down items than it is actually participating in fighting the other player. It's a chore to play, and boring to watch.
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On July 07 2008 10:55 Vedic wrote:Show nested quote +The game was ment in the beggining to bring out an excellent e-sport game, but it has not seen the light. This is because, as far as FPS games go, Warsow is terrible. Due to the weapon system (strong/weak ammo) and the speed/maneuverability, the game is more about hunting down items than it is actually participating in fighting the other player. It's a chore to play, and boring to watch.
All FPS games I have seen, Halo/cs/quake, etc is about hunting down/securing good items/weapons. Be it the over shield, money for guns, or the quake equivalent. Every other round in CS is done with deagles by one team for example.
I've never played warsow though so it might be worse.
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I've never played warsow though so it might be worse.
Far worse.
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Warsow is awesome. next to hldm it's the fps with the most fun imo and it's fun to watch, too.
Although wsw scene is skilled, it is really small and i think it will be hard to find sponsors :/
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1v1 FPS games aren't fun to spectate. At the pro level, when two players meet, one of them dies within split seconds every time. There's not much anticipation or question about the turnout of the match. The two players will see each other for a few split seconds, one gets blown up, and it's repeated until the score limit is reached.
I love playing Q3 CPMA, don't get me wrong. But I greatly dislike watching people play it. I'll watch my own replays to see what I did wrong, but there's not much to watch for besides that.
Team based FPS games like TF2 are more fun to watch, but there's not really a good way to view the entire team and understand what's going on all at once. If you could cast for team games and be able to communicate what the entire team is doing, you'd probably get a big audience.
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McDonalds Tetris Starleague. Make it happen gogogogo.
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Melbourne5338 Posts
Making a starleague is easy. Hire Hot_Bid.
edit:
Jumping into a huge tournament is definitely not ideal. If you need popularity for the game, then you should work on the press for the game, improve the coverage in the tournaments that are already running and try and keep a strong community.
TSL would've fallen apart without news posts constantly reminding people and a very informative and friendly broadcast delivery with the overlay and commentators.
For a tournament, often the organizers are too busy running the tournament and coverage is second priority. Give the people a reason to care.
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Since you are Swedish, maybe you could check out www.starcrafting.se and the "Sveriges bästa" (Sweden's best) tournament. MeYer hosted a tournament over there where he set up qualifications and then commented replays/live games and put them on YouTube.
LINK
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The TSL had a 10,000 dollar sponsership because it was pretty much garrenteed that thousands of people were going to tune in and look at the razor logo. To get a sponsership you must show the sponser that large numbers of people will view their logo.
You are going to have to start off small and work your way up. Now if your game has a good competative scene already in place, you should ask the best people if you can spectate the games, record, commentate and then chuck it up on youtube. Else your going to have to invite good players to play. If your videos are good, people will watch and you'll build up a reputation.
Next, you want to run some tournaments to get your experience up. Its hard to get players if there is no prize, so you can try to get a very small sponsership using your youtube views to help you. Run it proffessionally and smoothly, and you'll build up more credability. The next one will be a little bigger, and so fourth until your running larger tournaments.
It is going to require a LOT of work. And your biggest problems will be getting viewers to watch, getting players to play with you commentating. The reason why your expected to fail, is that it is a very large undertaking. TL has been around for years, and has a Massive reputation already which is why TL could hold such a large tournament.
But I wish you good luck.
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EPT
