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On September 05 2003 00:34 intotherei wrote: Show nested quote +On September 04 2003 00:07 BlackJack wrote: On September 03 2003 21:19 intotherei wrote:
btw just for the record blackjack/obsoletelogic, do you guys honestly believe that the towers fell down in the manner that they did SIMPLY because the 2 planes crashed into them?
not looking for an argument, just asking if you believe they fell down that way only because of the planes crashing into them?
a yes or no will do (with a quote so i know its in reference to this post pls ^^) The 2 airplane crashes caused the towers to collapse indirectly. Indirectly simply because the towers didn't collapse just from the sheer force and explosion. The heat the planes gave off melted the steel and the building couldn't support itself. hmm dont pass it off as a fact, state IMO beforehand.. so lemme get this straight, you believe that the heat melted the steel at the bottom ?? of the base of the towers, causing them to collapse, or what? elaborate pls.
omg. no. How would the heat travel downwards 80 stories? They melted the steel up at the top about 20 stories from the top and once the steel is melted.. You have 20 stories of steel and concrete above you which isn't going to be held up by liquid steel. So the top 20 stories crashed downward onto the 80th or so story which couldn't take the impact so that crashed down onto the 79th. 79th fell on the 78th. 78th fell on the 77th etc. Causing it to come straight down. If the building had fell down at the time of impact, perhaps it would have fell down tilted.
(It's not quite like cutting a tree down)
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Canada5062 Posts
On September 05 2003 00:05 doctorerotica wrote:
people like you are the reason this country is falling apart. and one more thing, if i ever saw you in real life, I would beat the shit out of you regardless where we were at.
You fuckin' neanderthal. And I'd shoot you in the fucking head and empty the chamber while I'm at it. But, not before breaking your fucking arm in three places and stuffing your fingers down your throat until you gag.
This isn't a zoo you 85-pound gorilla. Smarten up.
1st, last and only warning to you.
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On September 05 2003 02:31 BlackJack wrote: Show nested quote +On September 05 2003 00:34 intotherei wrote: On September 04 2003 00:07 BlackJack wrote: On September 03 2003 21:19 intotherei wrote:
btw just for the record blackjack/obsoletelogic, do you guys honestly believe that the towers fell down in the manner that they did SIMPLY because the 2 planes crashed into them?
not looking for an argument, just asking if you believe they fell down that way only because of the planes crashing into them?
a yes or no will do (with a quote so i know its in reference to this post pls ^^) The 2 airplane crashes caused the towers to collapse indirectly. Indirectly simply because the towers didn't collapse just from the sheer force and explosion. The heat the planes gave off melted the steel and the building couldn't support itself. hmm dont pass it off as a fact, state IMO beforehand.. so lemme get this straight, you believe that the heat melted the steel at the bottom ?? of the base of the towers, causing them to collapse, or what? elaborate pls. omg. no. How would the heat travel downwards 80 stories? They melted the steel up at the top about 20 stories from the top and once the steel is melted.. You have 20 stories of steel and concrete above you which isn't going to be held up by liquid steel. So the top 20 stories crashed downward onto the 80th or so story which couldn't take the impact so that crashed down onto the 79th. 79th fell on the 78th. 78th fell on the 77th etc. Causing it to come straight down. If the building had fell down at the time of impact, perhaps it would have fell down tilted. (It's not quite like cutting a tree down)
hmm i see what you mean, it makes sense, except that i think that 60 or so floors of un heated steel would have been able to support that kind of weight (the other floors crashing down)
plus in the video when you watch it falling, to me doesnt seem that the top floors came crashing down one on another to bring the building straight down.
i dono though 
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Bush did not MURDER 4000 Americans. Al-Qeida did. This is pathetic. The leader of the free world murdering his citizens. You should be dropkicked for saying that past a joke. You may think differently of America but I am a proud American, and I trust my President.
To think that 50 million people voted just so Bush could commit mass murder is just sickening.
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On September 05 2003 02:53 Iron[NM] wrote:
Bush did not MURDER 4000 Americans. Al-Qeida did. This is pathetic. The leader of the free world murdering his citizens. You should be dropkicked for saying that past a joke. You may think differently of America but I am a proud American, and I trust my President.
To think that 50 million people voted just so Bush could commit mass murder is just sickening.
You are an idiot and you are completely clueless.
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On September 05 2003 02:53 Iron[NM] wrote:
The leader of the free world...
i love it when bush or anyother american president is called the leader of the free world, how pretentious some americans can be 
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Russian Federation772 Posts
On September 05 2003 00:05 doctorerotica wrote:
Tech, you are probably one of the most idiotic and biased people I have ever heard. Not one time in your rambling incoherence that is based solely on personal beliefs and skewed information did you mention Mr. Clinton, who I'm sure you really worship. 'Slick Willy', as he can be fittingly called, WAS GIVEN BIN LADEN IN 1995 BY IRAQ AND HE DID NOT TAKE HIM. BUSH WAS NOT GIVEN BIN LADEN. You are a blatant liar looking to start a fight or a ''bush-bash''. It's too bad that idiot who wrote that article wont identify himself so he can be subpoena'd for libel and dealt with accordingly. You also fail to mention Mr. Clinton's most horrific moment of his presidency, and it has something to do with a Chinese scientist. Do you know of the name Wen Ho Lee? He was a californian nuclear scientist WHO STOLE 150 FLOPPY DISKS OF NUCLEAR INFORMATION AND DESIGN AND SOLD THEM TO CHINA. HE WAS ARRESTED AND SENTENCED FOR THIS ACT, BUT GUESS WHO PARDONED HIM? MR. CLINTON. PARDONED..PARDONED....PARDONED....PARDONED..this may sound a little harsh, but when we do get attacked by china, we can indirectly shift that blame over to MR. Clinton and his rampant, ignorant pardoning. I just hope idiot propogandists such as yourself who are in essence worse than tree hugging anti american hippies that lived in the vietnam era are taken along with the blast that is sure to claim many innocents. people like you are the reason this country is falling apart. and one more thing, if i ever saw you in real life, I would beat the shit out of you regardless where we were at.
good post, really. a little more vulgar than psylo tends to be but at least you sound like you know what you're talking about
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Canada5062 Posts
On September 05 2003 04:20 iGgs wrote: Show nested quote +On September 05 2003 00:05 doctorerotica wrote:
Tech, you are probably one of the most idiotic and biased people I have ever heard. Not one time in your rambling incoherence that is based solely on personal beliefs and skewed information did you mention Mr. Clinton, who I'm sure you really worship. 'Slick Willy', as he can be fittingly called, WAS GIVEN BIN LADEN IN 1995 BY IRAQ AND HE DID NOT TAKE HIM. BUSH WAS NOT GIVEN BIN LADEN. You are a blatant liar looking to start a fight or a ''bush-bash''. It's too bad that idiot who wrote that article wont identify himself so he can be subpoena'd for libel and dealt with accordingly. You also fail to mention Mr. Clinton's most horrific moment of his presidency, and it has something to do with a Chinese scientist. Do you know of the name Wen Ho Lee? He was a californian nuclear scientist WHO STOLE 150 FLOPPY DISKS OF NUCLEAR INFORMATION AND DESIGN AND SOLD THEM TO CHINA. HE WAS ARRESTED AND SENTENCED FOR THIS ACT, BUT GUESS WHO PARDONED HIM? MR. CLINTON. PARDONED..PARDONED....PARDONED....PARDONED..this may sound a little harsh, but when we do get attacked by china, we can indirectly shift that blame over to MR. Clinton and his rampant, ignorant pardoning. I just hope idiot propogandists such as yourself who are in essence worse than tree hugging anti american hippies that lived in the vietnam era are taken along with the blast that is sure to claim many innocents. people like you are the reason this country is falling apart. and one more thing, if i ever saw you in real life, I would beat the shit out of you regardless where we were at. good post, really. a little more vulgar than psylo tends to be but at least you sound like you know what you're talking about
I hope you're not being serious.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
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On September 05 2003 00:05 doctorerotica wrote:
Tech, you are probably one of the most idiotic and biased people I have ever heard. Not one time in your rambling incoherence that is based solely on personal beliefs and skewed information did you mention Mr. Clinton, who I'm sure you really worship. 'Slick Willy', as he can be fittingly called, WAS GIVEN BIN LADEN IN 1995 BY IRAQ AND HE DID NOT TAKE HIM. BUSH WAS NOT GIVEN BIN LADEN. You are a blatant liar looking to start a fight or a ''bush-bash''. It's too bad that idiot who wrote that article wont identify himself so he can be subpoena'd for libel and dealt with accordingly. You also fail to mention Mr. Clinton's most horrific moment of his presidency, and it has something to do with a Chinese scientist. Do you know of the name Wen Ho Lee? He was a californian nuclear scientist WHO STOLE 150 FLOPPY DISKS OF NUCLEAR INFORMATION AND DESIGN AND SOLD THEM TO CHINA. HE WAS ARRESTED AND SENTENCED FOR THIS ACT, BUT GUESS WHO PARDONED HIM? MR. CLINTON. PARDONED..PARDONED....PARDONED....PARDONED..this may sound a little harsh, but when we do get attacked by china, we can indirectly shift that blame over to MR. Clinton and his rampant, ignorant pardoning. I just hope idiot propogandists such as yourself who are in essence worse than tree hugging anti american hippies that lived in the vietnam era are taken along with the blast that is sure to claim many innocents. people like you are the reason this country is falling apart. and one more thing, if i ever saw you in real life, I would beat the shit out of you regardless where we were at.
in fact, i have mentioned clinton on many occasions. on all of those occasions, i have disagreed with his actions, and have put him in the same boat as bush, only differance being clinton was smart enough to recognize(bush sr was also smart enough to recognize), that attacking iraq would result in a variety of international dilemnas.
the issue of the chinese scientist is an interesting one to bring up, becuase it involves a similiar problem that we had with 9-11. the scientist was placed in charge of a nuclear program, when the FBI had him under investigation:
FBI investigating scientist: BBC
this relates to 9-11, becuase several of the 19 hijackers were under surveilance at one point:
Atta under surveilance
i think this shows something abuot our intelligene community, something that may very well be partitially to blame for 9-11, in which goes back to my point, that the US could have prevented it. the intelligence community lets known spies, terrorists, etc, travel about our country at will. this is in hopes of finding out more information from them, but obviously, they arnt analyzing the information correctly in the first place, or we would not be having this debate.
as the issue of the hippie protest of vietnam... u obviously dont know a thing abuot the war... read abuot the gulf of tonkin. cambodia. henry kissinger. then tell me that the war should not have been protested. those "tree huggin" hippies, saved thousands upon thousands of lives with there protests. as to me... i am probably one of the most patriotic people u will ever come across, i just happen to know what my country stands for, and i will not sit around and let some neo-conservative ass holes turn my republic into an empire.
as to you kicking my ass.. god grow up kid. if u saw me u would prob shit your paints anyway.
Ok, first of all, let me say something, and this goes for a lot of people - Just because the Constitution says so does not make it right (I am not defending imperialism, I'm just making a point). People tell me my beliefs in God and following the laws of my religion is stupid, when they themselves hold the Constitution on the very same pedastal. But this would digress into a relativism/aboslutism argument again, and although I am certainly ready to be in one, lets stay on track.
You seem to be greatly misinterpreting the PNAC's Statement of Principles - by "global" or "world leadership", they mean by example; not as some sort of dictorial force driving the rest of the world. Let's face it: an injustice is an injustice whether it is committed in the United States, Taiwan, Russia, France, or anywhere!
im not sure what your first point is. but let me say that weather or not the constitution is right is irrelevant. that is our law, and the government should abide by it, especially considering how much of the constitution is dedicated to limiting the power of the government. i doubt that u would support not abiding by it, considering your posts in other threads about how situational ethics is the down fall of the country. if u support abiding by it, i dont understand your point.
i have not attempted to mis represent the PNAC. i do not think that they are trying to take over the world, or are some sort of savage beasts. but they are extreme neo conservatives with an agenda, that i think is clearly against the original ideas of the constitution, and is ultimetly not good for our country. the question is, how far will the members of the PNAC go to achieve there agenda? that is really at the heart of the debate. i think that given historical facts about our government, and others, that it is not unrealistic, or even extreme, to consider members in the government hurting, and decieving its own people. i think by the time i finish my explanation(have been stalling due to consitant nights of 3 hours of sleep-work late/daughter just started school at 7:45 ) it will atleast seam reasonable to accept my explanation as a possability. once this is the case, it is only reasonable to further question what happened, and what the governments motives are, which is exactly what i have been trying to do for the past 2 years. and your right an injustice is an injustice, and if that occurs right here in the US, it needs to be dealt with, rather than ignored by the media and the entire populace.
Was it just me, or didn't you point out our raise in military spending? Our capabilities are significantly advanced in the last 5 years. Scott Ritter himself, one of the people you are using as a source, stated that "within months" Iraq could reestablish biological and chemical weapons production facilities, back in 1998. Maybe the world isn't significantly different, but the Iraq situation is; I don't have the resources to hand (yet), but I will find the archived news articles of the US finding potential, although cleaned, facilities which may have been used to produce CW/BW
are capabilites have advanced, that is undeniable. but i was refering to the relationship we have to the middle east, and the level of terrorism that is in the world. bush attempts to create the impression that after 9-11, there is a "its a hole new world out there", as if terrorism did not exists before. becuase of this "new" threat in the world, we have to embark on his "crusade"(god he is an idiot) to expand our military power and engage in pre-emptive strikes(bush dotrine). he is selling his idealogical vision of what our country should do in order to secure our super power status(national security as he calls it) by creating false impressions in the media, when in fact, like is said, its the same world..
your iraq/al queda link is intersting, and i will look into it more. but just off hand, i would like to point out that the article admits to a disagreement within the cia, in which this article only discusses one aspect. secondly, and probably most importantly, the source of information about the supposed 100 visits, came from the Iraq National Congess. this is a very conversial group, in which i will collect links aboubt, and discuss tomorrow, but by no means are they reliable. this weekend i will look into this more.
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They melted the steel up at the top about 20 stories from the top and once the steel is melted.. You have 20 stories of steel and concrete above you which isn't going to be held up by liquid steel. So the top 20 stories crashed downward onto the 80th or so story which couldn't take the impact so that crashed down onto the 79th. 79th fell on the 78th. 78th fell on the 77th etc. Causing it to come straight down. If the building had fell down at the time of impact, perhaps it would have fell down tilted.
this was what i initiailly thuoght aswell, until i watched video, of the collapse. the top of the one of the towers, started to fall to the side. it was substantially tilted, and was headed on a path, in which the top as a hole, was going to fall to the side of the building. the top of the building, then instantly emploded, and it reversed directions, falling straight down. this looked extremely unnatural, and i do not beleive that this could have happened, without some other force involved, beyond the momentum of the building. also, as u have explained, it collapsed floor by floor, straight down. but if u watch the video, and still shots in the links i provided, u can see floors in which the falling "skipped". u can see the windows gettin blown out and building above it falling floor by floor, but there is a point, where the u see windows being blown out, 2 or 3 floors that are intacked, then more floors being blown out, further supporting the idea that the buildings did not fall naturally. also, if u see a picture, or watch a video of the top, fall down upon the bottom, watch a second or 2 into the fall. if u drew a diagram of where the bottom of the top portion of the building would be, it would be well below the point in which the line of collapse is. once again leading that something else was involved.
there are also many eyewitness reports that say they heard a large explosion just before the collapse, these reports include fireman. which would support the siesmic graph. fireman transcipts also have dialogue of when the firemen initilliy entered the ground floors of the building, when they, on first site, discribed the scene by saying it looked like a bomb went off. this was 80 floors below the plane impact, and these were proffessional accounts. i suggest u look into the idea further.
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Canada5062 Posts
On September 05 2003 06:23 [pG]Rekrul wrote:
He is.
He's that dumb.
Wow. That's pretty dumb.
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unfortunetly many links have expired in the past year, so hard to find specific videos. here is a pic illustrating what i was talking about. unfortunetly u can not see the very unnatural emplode:
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Russian Federation772 Posts
On September 05 2003 06:05 mensrea wrote: Show nested quote +On September 05 2003 04:20 iGgs wrote: On September 05 2003 00:05 doctorerotica wrote:
Tech, you are probably one of the most idiotic and biased people I have ever heard. Not one time in your rambling incoherence that is based solely on personal beliefs and skewed information did you mention Mr. Clinton, who I'm sure you really worship. 'Slick Willy', as he can be fittingly called, WAS GIVEN BIN LADEN IN 1995 BY IRAQ AND HE DID NOT TAKE HIM. BUSH WAS NOT GIVEN BIN LADEN. You are a blatant liar looking to start a fight or a ''bush-bash''. It's too bad that idiot who wrote that article wont identify himself so he can be subpoena'd for libel and dealt with accordingly. You also fail to mention Mr. Clinton's most horrific moment of his presidency, and it has something to do with a Chinese scientist. Do you know of the name Wen Ho Lee? He was a californian nuclear scientist WHO STOLE 150 FLOPPY DISKS OF NUCLEAR INFORMATION AND DESIGN AND SOLD THEM TO CHINA. HE WAS ARRESTED AND SENTENCED FOR THIS ACT, BUT GUESS WHO PARDONED HIM? MR. CLINTON. PARDONED..PARDONED....PARDONED....PARDONED..this may sound a little harsh, but when we do get attacked by china, we can indirectly shift that blame over to MR. Clinton and his rampant, ignorant pardoning. I just hope idiot propogandists such as yourself who are in essence worse than tree hugging anti american hippies that lived in the vietnam era are taken along with the blast that is sure to claim many innocents. people like you are the reason this country is falling apart. and one more thing, if i ever saw you in real life, I would beat the shit out of you regardless where we were at. good post, really. a little more vulgar than psylo tends to be but at least you sound like you know what you're talking about I hope you're not being serious.
mensrea, this guy actually tried to make a valid point with factual evidence, as opposed to psylo who you can tell by just the way he posts he's not that smart. even though this guy came off a little vulgar and didnt post in the manner which most of the things on here are urged to be presented, i dont think he is dumb. how can you deny "people like you are the reason this country is falling apart." i think you were looking at the offensive nature of that sentence rather than its actual content which cannot be disputed by anyone in their right senses If you dont support the decisions this government makes, run for president or get elected to congress and do a better job. At least get off your ass and attempt at making a difference SOMEHOW rather than accumulating 19 pages of forum posts, the least psylo could do is write a summary which has been inquired several times by several users. He's obviously lazy and basing his arguements off of opinionated opinions and unsubstatial evidence and dubious sources. While that might sound a little capricious and unsensible, you cannot deny that the US government playing a role in 9/11 does as well
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Canada5062 Posts
On September 05 2003 03:09 BlackJack wrote: Show nested quote +On September 05 2003 02:53 Iron[NM] wrote:
Bush did not MURDER 4000 Americans. Al-Qeida did. This is pathetic. The leader of the free world murdering his citizens. You should be dropkicked for saying that past a joke. You may think differently of America but I am a proud American, and I trust my President.
To think that 50 million people voted just so Bush could commit mass murder is just sickening. You are an idiot and you are completely clueless.
I'd have to agree with Blackjack's assessment.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
Psylo I have not read any of your posts in this thread (well no one's except mensrea's really!) and I must commend you on your effort in this discussion.
If only I cared as much as you did :O
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Russian Federation772 Posts
On September 05 2003 07:20 TeCh)PsylO wrote: unfortunetly many links have expired in the past year, so hard to find specific videos. here is a pic illustrating what i was talking about. unfortunetly u can not see the very unnatural emplode:
bro the fucking building is falling down. Psylo are you an engineer? ARE YOU AN ENGINEER? you said the way the building fell looked questionable, what do you base that off of? Your extensive history of observing 100 story buildings fall? it looks questionable? wtf i simply dont understand how you're basing this off of an opinion since you're obviously not an expert, what may have looked suspicious to you may look normal to me taking into account that we both know practically nothing about the dynamics of buildings collapsing
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At least get off your ass and attempt at making a difference SOMEHOW rather than accumulating 19 pages of forum posts, the least psylo could do is write a summary which has been inquired several times by several users. He's obviously lazy and basing his arguements off of opinionated opinions and unsubstatial and dubious sources.
i am attempting to make a differance by exposing people to a situation, that is not in the mainstream media, therefor most likely will not know about it. if i can convince one person of what i am saying, i will most likly have done more for my country than u ever will. and i dont need to run for president, i vote.. how can u consider me lazy when i have takin the time to address every disagreement? are u not the one that is arguing with me, but will refuse to read the hole thread? how many links do u think i have provided? i have spent the past 2 years researching this issue, i would not regard that as lazy. i have not writtin a summary, becuase i am not done discussing the information that i will summarize, mainly, i still want to discuss the relationship between the bush administrations financial interests, the saudi family, the osama family, and isreal. i have not yet gotten to this, becuase i have been spending time addressing peoples arguments against me. if u continued on with my debate, ignoring peoples arguments, u would then criticize me for avoiding the issues. and as i have already pointed out, I BEGAN THE THREAD WITH A SUMMARY. jesus kid..
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bro the fucking building is falling down. Psylo are you an engineer? ARE YOU AN ENGINEER? you said the way the building fell looked questionable, what do you base that off of? Your extensive history of observing 100 story buildings fall? it looks questionable? wtf i simply dont understand how you're basing this off of an opinion since you're obviously not an expert, what may have looked suspicious to you may look normal to me taking into account that we both know practically nothing about the dynamics of buildings collapsing
drop a ball, and watch it fall. roll it off the table, and watch it fall. not an expert? i have spent my entire life observing the effects of gravity, i dont need to be and engineer to predict the path of an object falling, if i have already seen the path begin. read newtons laws plz... ever heard of an apple falling from a tree? your a moron...
Psylo I have not read any of your posts in this thread (well no one's except mensrea's really!) and I must commend you on your effort in this discussion.
If only I cared as much as you did :O
thank you  its easy not to care when u dont see the effects in your daily life.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.serendipity.li/wot/topple.jpg)
