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On August 29 2023 04:55 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2023 04:40 StasisField wrote:On August 29 2023 03:21 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 29 2023 02:31 KwarK wrote:On August 29 2023 02:25 GreenHorizons wrote:First poll since the mugshot is out and Trump is up 2 points (5 if you include Cornel West) on Biden. projects.fivethirtyeight.comFor context, the same polling firm had Biden up 8 points at this point of the race in 2019. + Show Spoiler +That's a 10 point swing in favor of Trump amid the "worst" news for him to date. I know Democrats insist this/Biden is the best they can do, but it's increasingly looking like that won't be good enough. That’s America’s fault. And the whole planet's problem. Oh so you'll be voting for Biden then? Since you recognize the Fascist GOP winning is the whole world's problem, I'm sure you'll do the bare minimum and vote to prevent it on Election Day and not be another leftist with worse political instincts than the literal Nazis who took over the GOP by voting to keep the GOP in power while also electing more of their own candidates to the party over time. Ehhh, folks like me and GH have an easy pass in this regard because our entire cities could choose not to vote and Biden would still win (Washington and Oregon). Protest votes to signal dissatisfaction with corporate dems when you live in a safe-blue state is the correct thing to do IMO.
If enough people protest vote/don't vote in a safe state, they are no longer safe. Vote protesting of any kind is really stupid when christo-fascism is at our doorstep.
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On August 29 2023 05:06 StasisField wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2023 04:55 Mohdoo wrote:On August 29 2023 04:40 StasisField wrote:On August 29 2023 03:21 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 29 2023 02:31 KwarK wrote:On August 29 2023 02:25 GreenHorizons wrote:First poll since the mugshot is out and Trump is up 2 points (5 if you include Cornel West) on Biden. projects.fivethirtyeight.comFor context, the same polling firm had Biden up 8 points at this point of the race in 2019. + Show Spoiler +That's a 10 point swing in favor of Trump amid the "worst" news for him to date. I know Democrats insist this/Biden is the best they can do, but it's increasingly looking like that won't be good enough. That’s America’s fault. And the whole planet's problem. Oh so you'll be voting for Biden then? Since you recognize the Fascist GOP winning is the whole world's problem, I'm sure you'll do the bare minimum and vote to prevent it on Election Day and not be another leftist with worse political instincts than the literal Nazis who took over the GOP by voting to keep the GOP in power while also electing more of their own candidates to the party over time. Ehhh, folks like me and GH have an easy pass in this regard because our entire cities could choose not to vote and Biden would still win (Washington and Oregon). Protest votes to signal dissatisfaction with corporate dems when you live in a safe-blue state is the correct thing to do IMO. If enough people protest vote/don't vote in a safe state, they are no longer safe. Vote protesting of any kind is really stupid when christo-fascism is at our doorstep.
People in Poland thought it's a good idea to vote in protest and now we've had eight years of national populists building a Russia-like authoritarian state.
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On August 29 2023 05:06 StasisField wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2023 04:55 Mohdoo wrote:On August 29 2023 04:40 StasisField wrote:On August 29 2023 03:21 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 29 2023 02:31 KwarK wrote:On August 29 2023 02:25 GreenHorizons wrote:First poll since the mugshot is out and Trump is up 2 points (5 if you include Cornel West) on Biden. projects.fivethirtyeight.comFor context, the same polling firm had Biden up 8 points at this point of the race in 2019. + Show Spoiler +That's a 10 point swing in favor of Trump amid the "worst" news for him to date. I know Democrats insist this/Biden is the best they can do, but it's increasingly looking like that won't be good enough. That’s America’s fault. And the whole planet's problem. Oh so you'll be voting for Biden then? Since you recognize the Fascist GOP winning is the whole world's problem, I'm sure you'll do the bare minimum and vote to prevent it on Election Day and not be another leftist with worse political instincts than the literal Nazis who took over the GOP by voting to keep the GOP in power while also electing more of their own candidates to the party over time. Ehhh, folks like me and GH have an easy pass in this regard because our entire cities could choose not to vote and Biden would still win (Washington and Oregon). Protest votes to signal dissatisfaction with corporate dems when you live in a safe-blue state is the correct thing to do IMO. If enough people protest vote/don't vote in a safe state, they are no longer safe. Vote protesting of any kind is really stupid when christo-fascism is at our doorstep.
From my perspective the US is essentially christo-fascism's (though I'd use "racial capitalism's") "house", and dad's just coming home to the doorstep from work abroad.
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If leftists really want to make a difference in this country, and I'm pretty sure we do, then the best course of action is to infiltrate the democratic party with our own candidates, shift the party left, and enact our policies on a city, county, state, and national level. The Tea Party did this to great effect and now the MAGA faction is doing the same. The left needs to have better political instincts than our enemies if we want to win and right now we're not even on par with these people. You don't pout in a corner and write in somebody else or skip voting all together when the other party that's condoning bigotry and oppression has also openly signaled they're fine with coups and voters suppression. I don't want fascism to lose by 1 vote. I want fascism to lose by as many votes as possible. I vote for progressives and leftists in the primary and I vote against fascism in the general.
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On August 29 2023 05:30 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2023 05:06 StasisField wrote:On August 29 2023 04:55 Mohdoo wrote:On August 29 2023 04:40 StasisField wrote:On August 29 2023 03:21 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 29 2023 02:31 KwarK wrote:On August 29 2023 02:25 GreenHorizons wrote:First poll since the mugshot is out and Trump is up 2 points (5 if you include Cornel West) on Biden. projects.fivethirtyeight.comFor context, the same polling firm had Biden up 8 points at this point of the race in 2019. + Show Spoiler +That's a 10 point swing in favor of Trump amid the "worst" news for him to date. I know Democrats insist this/Biden is the best they can do, but it's increasingly looking like that won't be good enough. That’s America’s fault. And the whole planet's problem. Oh so you'll be voting for Biden then? Since you recognize the Fascist GOP winning is the whole world's problem, I'm sure you'll do the bare minimum and vote to prevent it on Election Day and not be another leftist with worse political instincts than the literal Nazis who took over the GOP by voting to keep the GOP in power while also electing more of their own candidates to the party over time. Ehhh, folks like me and GH have an easy pass in this regard because our entire cities could choose not to vote and Biden would still win (Washington and Oregon). Protest votes to signal dissatisfaction with corporate dems when you live in a safe-blue state is the correct thing to do IMO. If enough people protest vote/don't vote in a safe state, they are no longer safe. Vote protesting of any kind is really stupid when christo-fascism is at our doorstep. From my perspective the US is essentially christo-fascism's (though I'd use "racial capitalism's") "house", and dad's just coming home to the doorstep from work abroad.
So because things are already bad you don't want to keep things from getting worse? Wow, very progressive of you. Truly, the revolution we've all been waiting for: doing nothing because things already suck.
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On August 29 2023 05:38 StasisField wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2023 05:30 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 29 2023 05:06 StasisField wrote:On August 29 2023 04:55 Mohdoo wrote:On August 29 2023 04:40 StasisField wrote:On August 29 2023 03:21 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 29 2023 02:31 KwarK wrote:On August 29 2023 02:25 GreenHorizons wrote:First poll since the mugshot is out and Trump is up 2 points (5 if you include Cornel West) on Biden. projects.fivethirtyeight.comFor context, the same polling firm had Biden up 8 points at this point of the race in 2019. + Show Spoiler +That's a 10 point swing in favor of Trump amid the "worst" news for him to date. I know Democrats insist this/Biden is the best they can do, but it's increasingly looking like that won't be good enough. That’s America’s fault. And the whole planet's problem. Oh so you'll be voting for Biden then? Since you recognize the Fascist GOP winning is the whole world's problem, I'm sure you'll do the bare minimum and vote to prevent it on Election Day and not be another leftist with worse political instincts than the literal Nazis who took over the GOP by voting to keep the GOP in power while also electing more of their own candidates to the party over time. Ehhh, folks like me and GH have an easy pass in this regard because our entire cities could choose not to vote and Biden would still win (Washington and Oregon). Protest votes to signal dissatisfaction with corporate dems when you live in a safe-blue state is the correct thing to do IMO. If enough people protest vote/don't vote in a safe state, they are no longer safe. Vote protesting of any kind is really stupid when christo-fascism is at our doorstep. From my perspective the US is essentially christo-fascism's (though I'd use "racial capitalism's") "house", and dad's just coming home to the doorstep from work abroad. So because things are already bad you don't want to keep things from getting worse? Wow, very progressive of you. Truly, the revolution we've all been waiting for: doing nothing because things already suck. On the contrary, I consider perpetually voting for whoever the Democrat party allows to be demonstrably ineffective and in effect "doing nothing". The incontrovertible example I typically refer to being 0 progress in 60+ years on racial wealth inequality and the unparalleled support of Democrats by Black people despite that. Never mind looking past Biden's personal responsibility for contributing to decades of destroying our families/communities with mass incarceration the whole time.
That Democrats feel entitled to my or any other Black person's vote despite that is disgusting to me. That they so brazenly try to shame anyone that disagrees with them that they are, is indescribably disappointing. That they rationalize it by pointing to the system they built is just asinine.
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On August 29 2023 05:37 StasisField wrote:
If leftists really want to make a difference in this country, and I'm pretty sure we do, then the best course of action is to infiltrate the democratic party with our own candidates, shift the party left, and enact our policies on a city, county, state, and national level. The Tea Party did this to great effect and now the MAGA faction is doing the same. The left needs to have better political instincts than our enemies if we want to win and right now we're not even on par with these people. You don't pout in a corner and write in somebody else or skip voting all together when the other party that's condoning bigotry and oppression has also openly signaled they're fine with coups and voters suppression. I don't want fascism to lose by 1 vote. I want fascism to lose by as many votes as possible. I vote for progressives and leftists in the primary and I vote against fascism in the general.
Yeah, in general my perspective is that folks ought to unleash all hell during the primary, then get in line behind whoever wins the primary.
When there is no primary, and I live in a state incapable of electing Trump, I do think there is a benefit to some folks protest voting.
But don't get me wrong, this is all predicated on the idea that nothing bad will come of it. I only endorse this when there's a 0% chance of trump winning a given state. I would never support this kinda thing in Virginia or Wisconsin or something.
Swing states = wage war during the primary, then get in line right after. Otherwise you're just whining about your candidate losing.
Safe states = wage war during the primary, then protest vote right after. BUT ONLY IF IT IS SUPER DUPER SAFE.
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On August 29 2023 06:12 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2023 05:38 StasisField wrote:On August 29 2023 05:30 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 29 2023 05:06 StasisField wrote:On August 29 2023 04:55 Mohdoo wrote:On August 29 2023 04:40 StasisField wrote:On August 29 2023 03:21 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 29 2023 02:31 KwarK wrote:On August 29 2023 02:25 GreenHorizons wrote:First poll since the mugshot is out and Trump is up 2 points (5 if you include Cornel West) on Biden. projects.fivethirtyeight.comFor context, the same polling firm had Biden up 8 points at this point of the race in 2019. + Show Spoiler +That's a 10 point swing in favor of Trump amid the "worst" news for him to date. I know Democrats insist this/Biden is the best they can do, but it's increasingly looking like that won't be good enough. That’s America’s fault. And the whole planet's problem. Oh so you'll be voting for Biden then? Since you recognize the Fascist GOP winning is the whole world's problem, I'm sure you'll do the bare minimum and vote to prevent it on Election Day and not be another leftist with worse political instincts than the literal Nazis who took over the GOP by voting to keep the GOP in power while also electing more of their own candidates to the party over time. Ehhh, folks like me and GH have an easy pass in this regard because our entire cities could choose not to vote and Biden would still win (Washington and Oregon). Protest votes to signal dissatisfaction with corporate dems when you live in a safe-blue state is the correct thing to do IMO. If enough people protest vote/don't vote in a safe state, they are no longer safe. Vote protesting of any kind is really stupid when christo-fascism is at our doorstep. From my perspective the US is essentially christo-fascism's (though I'd use "racial capitalism's") "house", and dad's just coming home to the doorstep from work abroad. So because things are already bad you don't want to keep things from getting worse? Wow, very progressive of you. Truly, the revolution we've all been waiting for: doing nothing because things already suck. On the contrary, I consider perpetually voting for whoever the Democrat party allows to be demonstrably ineffective and in effect "doing nothing". The incontrovertible example I typically refer to being 0 progress in 60+ years on racial wealth inequality and the unparalleled support of Democrats by Black people despite that. Never mind looking past Biden's personal responsibility for contributing to decades of destroying our families/communities with mass incarceration the whole time. That Democrats feel entitled to my or any other Black person's vote despite that is disgusting to me. That they so brazenly try to shame anyone that disagrees with them that they are, is indescribably disappointing. That they rationalize it by pointing to the system they built is just asinine.
I was mostly onboard with this perspective until I saw how things went 2016-2020. The general idea of letting the pieces fall where they will and letting the natural correcting mechanisms do their thing does not work due to the extreme amount of cultural distortion.
The fact of the matter is: The poor can be pushed to their absolute breaking point and they will continue to vote for capitalism and bigotry due to cultural manipulation. Even if people were wide-spread starving, they would not push against capitalism. They are too *ACTUALLY* brainwashed. Like their minds simply won't go there. They won't ever see the elite capitalists as the problem. Its not even one of the possibilities in their heads.
Just to be entirely clear on what I am saying: Rather than beheading capitalists, if Cletus and his family were starving, he would behead socialists and minorities. He would not ever join any form of revolution against capitalism.
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United States44203 Posts
On August 29 2023 06:12 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2023 05:38 StasisField wrote:On August 29 2023 05:30 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 29 2023 05:06 StasisField wrote:On August 29 2023 04:55 Mohdoo wrote:On August 29 2023 04:40 StasisField wrote:On August 29 2023 03:21 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 29 2023 02:31 KwarK wrote:On August 29 2023 02:25 GreenHorizons wrote:First poll since the mugshot is out and Trump is up 2 points (5 if you include Cornel West) on Biden. projects.fivethirtyeight.comFor context, the same polling firm had Biden up 8 points at this point of the race in 2019. + Show Spoiler +That's a 10 point swing in favor of Trump amid the "worst" news for him to date. I know Democrats insist this/Biden is the best they can do, but it's increasingly looking like that won't be good enough. That’s America’s fault. And the whole planet's problem. Oh so you'll be voting for Biden then? Since you recognize the Fascist GOP winning is the whole world's problem, I'm sure you'll do the bare minimum and vote to prevent it on Election Day and not be another leftist with worse political instincts than the literal Nazis who took over the GOP by voting to keep the GOP in power while also electing more of their own candidates to the party over time. Ehhh, folks like me and GH have an easy pass in this regard because our entire cities could choose not to vote and Biden would still win (Washington and Oregon). Protest votes to signal dissatisfaction with corporate dems when you live in a safe-blue state is the correct thing to do IMO. If enough people protest vote/don't vote in a safe state, they are no longer safe. Vote protesting of any kind is really stupid when christo-fascism is at our doorstep. From my perspective the US is essentially christo-fascism's (though I'd use "racial capitalism's") "house", and dad's just coming home to the doorstep from work abroad. So because things are already bad you don't want to keep things from getting worse? Wow, very progressive of you. Truly, the revolution we've all been waiting for: doing nothing because things already suck. On the contrary, I consider perpetually voting for whoever the Democrat party allows to be demonstrably ineffective and in effect "doing nothing". The incontrovertible example I typically refer to being 0 progress in 60+ years on racial wealth inequality and the unparalleled support of Democrats by Black people despite that. Never mind looking past Biden's personal responsibility for contributing to decades of destroying our families/communities with mass incarceration the whole time. That Democrats feel entitled to my or any other Black person's vote despite that is disgusting to me. That they so brazenly try to shame anyone that disagrees with them that they are, is indescribably disappointing. That they rationalize it by pointing to the system they built is just asinine.
People who don’t vote against Trump should be shamed. It’s the bare minimum. The absolute lowest voting bar to clear.
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On August 29 2023 04:36 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Yeah the election stuff is clearly worse than the documents imo. Well I guess I don't fully know the extent of the documents but the election stuff is a clear as daylight attempt at stealing the presidency, it's just so incompetently executed that it ends up being kinda hilariosly ridiculous and that seems to make people kinda gloss over it
As we all know wrong=/=illegal and I am uncomfortable with using statutes in new ways to get at someone already deemed bad. And esp because many of these prosecutors get elected promising to go after Trump. Bragg did. I think Willis did too. I was here during russiagate, I have watched people who ought to take their jobs very seriously beclown themselves and give up their integrity for plaudits from their own side.
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On August 29 2023 07:45 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2023 04:36 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Yeah the election stuff is clearly worse than the documents imo. Well I guess I don't fully know the extent of the documents but the election stuff is a clear as daylight attempt at stealing the presidency, it's just so incompetently executed that it ends up being kinda hilariosly ridiculous and that seems to make people kinda gloss over it As we all know wrong=/=illegal and I am uncomfortable with using statutes in new ways to get at someone already deemed bad. And esp because many of these prosecutors get elected promising to go after Trump. Bragg did. I think Willis did too. I was here during russiagate, I have watched people who ought to take their jobs very seriously beclown themselves and give up their integrity for plaudits from their own side.
Are you saying you think Trump's handling of Georgia was not morally wrong? Or not illegal? It is not clear what distinction you are making here.
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On August 29 2023 06:47 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2023 06:12 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 29 2023 05:38 StasisField wrote:On August 29 2023 05:30 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 29 2023 05:06 StasisField wrote:On August 29 2023 04:55 Mohdoo wrote:On August 29 2023 04:40 StasisField wrote:On August 29 2023 03:21 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 29 2023 02:31 KwarK wrote:On August 29 2023 02:25 GreenHorizons wrote:First poll since the mugshot is out and Trump is up 2 points (5 if you include Cornel West) on Biden. projects.fivethirtyeight.comFor context, the same polling firm had Biden up 8 points at this point of the race in 2019. + Show Spoiler +That's a 10 point swing in favor of Trump amid the "worst" news for him to date. I know Democrats insist this/Biden is the best they can do, but it's increasingly looking like that won't be good enough. That’s America’s fault. And the whole planet's problem. Oh so you'll be voting for Biden then? Since you recognize the Fascist GOP winning is the whole world's problem, I'm sure you'll do the bare minimum and vote to prevent it on Election Day and not be another leftist with worse political instincts than the literal Nazis who took over the GOP by voting to keep the GOP in power while also electing more of their own candidates to the party over time. Ehhh, folks like me and GH have an easy pass in this regard because our entire cities could choose not to vote and Biden would still win (Washington and Oregon). Protest votes to signal dissatisfaction with corporate dems when you live in a safe-blue state is the correct thing to do IMO. If enough people protest vote/don't vote in a safe state, they are no longer safe. Vote protesting of any kind is really stupid when christo-fascism is at our doorstep. From my perspective the US is essentially christo-fascism's (though I'd use "racial capitalism's") "house", and dad's just coming home to the doorstep from work abroad. So because things are already bad you don't want to keep things from getting worse? Wow, very progressive of you. Truly, the revolution we've all been waiting for: doing nothing because things already suck. On the contrary, I consider perpetually voting for whoever the Democrat party allows to be demonstrably ineffective and in effect "doing nothing". The incontrovertible example I typically refer to being 0 progress in 60+ years on racial wealth inequality and the unparalleled support of Democrats by Black people despite that. Never mind looking past Biden's personal responsibility for contributing to decades of destroying our families/communities with mass incarceration the whole time. That Democrats feel entitled to my or any other Black person's vote despite that is disgusting to me. That they so brazenly try to shame anyone that disagrees with them that they are, is indescribably disappointing. That they rationalize it by pointing to the system they built is just asinine. People who don’t vote against Trump should be shamed. It’s the bare minimum. The absolute lowest voting bar to clear.
From my perspective the bare minimum is revolutionary socialism. It's not the "Cletuses" of the world I expect to reach that conclusion, it's the people who ostensibly claim to sincerely want things to improve we need to both recognize the futility of their electoralism and the urgent necessity to move beyond it.
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On August 29 2023 07:48 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2023 07:45 Introvert wrote:On August 29 2023 04:36 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Yeah the election stuff is clearly worse than the documents imo. Well I guess I don't fully know the extent of the documents but the election stuff is a clear as daylight attempt at stealing the presidency, it's just so incompetently executed that it ends up being kinda hilariosly ridiculous and that seems to make people kinda gloss over it As we all know wrong=/=illegal and I am uncomfortable with using statutes in new ways to get at someone already deemed bad. And esp because many of these prosecutors get elected promising to go after Trump. Bragg did. I think Willis did too. I was here during russiagate, I have watched people who ought to take their jobs very seriously beclown themselves and give up their integrity for plaudits from their own side. Are you saying you think Trump's handling of Georgia was not morally wrong? Or not illegal? It is not clear what distinction you are making here.
the latter, from what I'm reading, what my feeling of common sense tells me, Trump didn't violate any law. I haven't read too much about it, but what I have read is from people who are not impressed with Fani Willis' work product. If it were decided that we needed to criminalize such conduct, and could do so within the bounds of the first amendment, then it should be discussed, that way it can be applied evenly.
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Northern Ireland27228 Posts
On August 29 2023 06:21 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2023 06:12 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 29 2023 05:38 StasisField wrote:On August 29 2023 05:30 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 29 2023 05:06 StasisField wrote:On August 29 2023 04:55 Mohdoo wrote:On August 29 2023 04:40 StasisField wrote:On August 29 2023 03:21 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 29 2023 02:31 KwarK wrote:On August 29 2023 02:25 GreenHorizons wrote:First poll since the mugshot is out and Trump is up 2 points (5 if you include Cornel West) on Biden. projects.fivethirtyeight.comFor context, the same polling firm had Biden up 8 points at this point of the race in 2019. + Show Spoiler +That's a 10 point swing in favor of Trump amid the "worst" news for him to date. I know Democrats insist this/Biden is the best they can do, but it's increasingly looking like that won't be good enough. That’s America’s fault. And the whole planet's problem. Oh so you'll be voting for Biden then? Since you recognize the Fascist GOP winning is the whole world's problem, I'm sure you'll do the bare minimum and vote to prevent it on Election Day and not be another leftist with worse political instincts than the literal Nazis who took over the GOP by voting to keep the GOP in power while also electing more of their own candidates to the party over time. Ehhh, folks like me and GH have an easy pass in this regard because our entire cities could choose not to vote and Biden would still win (Washington and Oregon). Protest votes to signal dissatisfaction with corporate dems when you live in a safe-blue state is the correct thing to do IMO. If enough people protest vote/don't vote in a safe state, they are no longer safe. Vote protesting of any kind is really stupid when christo-fascism is at our doorstep. From my perspective the US is essentially christo-fascism's (though I'd use "racial capitalism's") "house", and dad's just coming home to the doorstep from work abroad. So because things are already bad you don't want to keep things from getting worse? Wow, very progressive of you. Truly, the revolution we've all been waiting for: doing nothing because things already suck. On the contrary, I consider perpetually voting for whoever the Democrat party allows to be demonstrably ineffective and in effect "doing nothing". The incontrovertible example I typically refer to being 0 progress in 60+ years on racial wealth inequality and the unparalleled support of Democrats by Black people despite that. Never mind looking past Biden's personal responsibility for contributing to decades of destroying our families/communities with mass incarceration the whole time. That Democrats feel entitled to my or any other Black person's vote despite that is disgusting to me. That they so brazenly try to shame anyone that disagrees with them that they are, is indescribably disappointing. That they rationalize it by pointing to the system they built is just asinine. I was mostly onboard with this perspective until I saw how things went 2016-2020. The general idea of letting the pieces fall where they will and letting the natural correcting mechanisms do their thing does not work due to the extreme amount of cultural distortion. The fact of the matter is: The poor can be pushed to their absolute breaking point and they will continue to vote for capitalism and bigotry due to cultural manipulation. Even if people were wide-spread starving, they would not push against capitalism. They are too *ACTUALLY* brainwashed. Like their minds simply won't go there. They won't ever see the elite capitalists as the problem. Its not even one of the possibilities in their heads. Just to be entirely clear on what I am saying: Rather than beheading capitalists, if Cletus and his family were starving, he would behead socialists and minorities. He would not ever join any form of revolution against capitalism.
Depressingly my current kind of sentiment, and I’m unsure how punching through would ever look like. Capitalism has only got better at doing capitalism over time, and its status not as a socio-economic system but as life’s default becomes more and more ingrained as we go.
I mean a significant amount of folks don’t even like redistributive capitalism so swinging them over to socialism, good luck with that.
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On August 29 2023 06:58 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2023 06:47 KwarK wrote:On August 29 2023 06:12 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 29 2023 05:38 StasisField wrote:On August 29 2023 05:30 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 29 2023 05:06 StasisField wrote:On August 29 2023 04:55 Mohdoo wrote:On August 29 2023 04:40 StasisField wrote:On August 29 2023 03:21 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 29 2023 02:31 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
That’s America’s fault. And the whole planet's problem. Oh so you'll be voting for Biden then? Since you recognize the Fascist GOP winning is the whole world's problem, I'm sure you'll do the bare minimum and vote to prevent it on Election Day and not be another leftist with worse political instincts than the literal Nazis who took over the GOP by voting to keep the GOP in power while also electing more of their own candidates to the party over time. Ehhh, folks like me and GH have an easy pass in this regard because our entire cities could choose not to vote and Biden would still win (Washington and Oregon). Protest votes to signal dissatisfaction with corporate dems when you live in a safe-blue state is the correct thing to do IMO. If enough people protest vote/don't vote in a safe state, they are no longer safe. Vote protesting of any kind is really stupid when christo-fascism is at our doorstep. From my perspective the US is essentially christo-fascism's (though I'd use "racial capitalism's") "house", and dad's just coming home to the doorstep from work abroad. So because things are already bad you don't want to keep things from getting worse? Wow, very progressive of you. Truly, the revolution we've all been waiting for: doing nothing because things already suck. On the contrary, I consider perpetually voting for whoever the Democrat party allows to be demonstrably ineffective and in effect "doing nothing". The incontrovertible example I typically refer to being 0 progress in 60+ years on racial wealth inequality and the unparalleled support of Democrats by Black people despite that. Never mind looking past Biden's personal responsibility for contributing to decades of destroying our families/communities with mass incarceration the whole time. That Democrats feel entitled to my or any other Black person's vote despite that is disgusting to me. That they so brazenly try to shame anyone that disagrees with them that they are, is indescribably disappointing. That they rationalize it by pointing to the system they built is just asinine. People who don’t vote against Trump should be shamed. It’s the bare minimum. The absolute lowest voting bar to clear. But the real evil is the Dems because they can not even make people like GH vote for them over Trump. And he's proof.
in Kwarks own words, that’s the lowest bar to clear. is it GHs fault that it’s so fucking hard to clear?
democrats are the other side of a coin forcing the majority of people to eat shit and like it and you both want to pretend like it’s the greater
good?
you (and most posters in this thread, this isn’t personal) want the republicans on this forum to continuously caveat their positions that they renounce the basest stupidity of their party, this seems like a good time to ask the same of you.
is clearing the lowest bar the hill you die on or do you think there’s room to grow? what is the democratic party offering black people that you think gives reason enough to vote for? (and no need to call out one minority here really, just topical to the thread)
or will you do what you expect of the republican voters in the thread and couch your posts in ‘i know my candidate is rancid garbage but it smells less?’ with their every post defending one defensible point? if so seems like a good time to start. when does it get tiring to admit democrats are also rancid garbage but still worthy of the vote?
but you know, two party system, so, what can you do? hold your nose and pray they’ll stop wanting to line their pockets with your hard work. *punches the ticket for biden*
(here’s my caveat that my vote is for the lesser evil, i did my part! after all, he hasn’t committed any crimes this week (against americans))
maybe we all add this to our signature just to remove all doubt.
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On August 29 2023 07:52 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2023 06:47 KwarK wrote:On August 29 2023 06:12 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 29 2023 05:38 StasisField wrote:On August 29 2023 05:30 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 29 2023 05:06 StasisField wrote:On August 29 2023 04:55 Mohdoo wrote:On August 29 2023 04:40 StasisField wrote:On August 29 2023 03:21 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 29 2023 02:31 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
That’s America’s fault. And the whole planet's problem. Oh so you'll be voting for Biden then? Since you recognize the Fascist GOP winning is the whole world's problem, I'm sure you'll do the bare minimum and vote to prevent it on Election Day and not be another leftist with worse political instincts than the literal Nazis who took over the GOP by voting to keep the GOP in power while also electing more of their own candidates to the party over time. Ehhh, folks like me and GH have an easy pass in this regard because our entire cities could choose not to vote and Biden would still win (Washington and Oregon). Protest votes to signal dissatisfaction with corporate dems when you live in a safe-blue state is the correct thing to do IMO. If enough people protest vote/don't vote in a safe state, they are no longer safe. Vote protesting of any kind is really stupid when christo-fascism is at our doorstep. From my perspective the US is essentially christo-fascism's (though I'd use "racial capitalism's") "house", and dad's just coming home to the doorstep from work abroad. So because things are already bad you don't want to keep things from getting worse? Wow, very progressive of you. Truly, the revolution we've all been waiting for: doing nothing because things already suck. On the contrary, I consider perpetually voting for whoever the Democrat party allows to be demonstrably ineffective and in effect "doing nothing". The incontrovertible example I typically refer to being 0 progress in 60+ years on racial wealth inequality and the unparalleled support of Democrats by Black people despite that. Never mind looking past Biden's personal responsibility for contributing to decades of destroying our families/communities with mass incarceration the whole time. That Democrats feel entitled to my or any other Black person's vote despite that is disgusting to me. That they so brazenly try to shame anyone that disagrees with them that they are, is indescribably disappointing. That they rationalize it by pointing to the system they built is just asinine. People who don’t vote against Trump should be shamed. It’s the bare minimum. The absolute lowest voting bar to clear. From my perspective the bare minimum is revolutionary socialism. It's not the "Cletuses" of the world I expect to reach that conclusion, it's the people who ostensibly claim to sincerely want things to improve we need to both recognize the futility of their electoralism and the urgent necessity to move beyond it.
Yes, I do think the non-Cletuses of the country will eventually get to that point, but Cletus and his wife/cousin will make the process take much, much longer.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/uEnh7v6.jpg)
