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Keep the discussion ON TOPIC. This thread is for discussing the terror attacks in Paris. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On November 16 2015 07:34 Oshuy wrote: France had 2 fighters in the air before, they had 10 bombers today. Small change of scale. Yeah, but we decided to send the charles de gaulle (our biggest aircraft carrier) to Syria a little bit before the terrorist attack, so even the change of scale is not a direct response of the attacks. | ||
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Derez
Netherlands6068 Posts
On November 16 2015 07:23 Faefae wrote: The west (so france as well) as been bombing ISIS for months now. Yet countries have been unwilling to step it up beyond token contributions. A couple of bombings a day, some token special ops advisors. Somehow we are at war without the force to back it up. No surprise there is no progress. | ||
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VHbb
692 Posts
I'm trying to collect information and trying to study what happened in Paris, but I'm struggling to find a good source of information. I'm not talking about the details of the shooting, or the many news about what exactly happened on Friday evening. I'm trying to locate a good source of information about everything that lead up to this point, from the action of France in Syria, to the possible causes of these terrorist acts, etc. I'm *very* uneducated on the subject, and in general on modern politics, so I ask for your help. I know that I cannot have a unique and universally good source of information, and I know I'll have to use my critic thinking to filter what I'll read, but I ask your advice to start from some point. In these days we hear many things, read many opinions on the newspaper and on the internet: I'm extremely skeptical and often find myself thinking that I cannot trust what I hear around (especially in the days following such a shocking event) but I want to understand more and I want to have a deeper view of what's happening and has happened. Many thanks in advance to whom will help me! | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On November 16 2015 07:38 VHbb wrote: Dear TL friends, I have a question / request for you. I'm trying to collect information and trying to study what happened in Paris, but I'm struggling to find a good source of information. I'm not talking about the details of the shooting, or the many news about what exactly happened on Friday evening. I'm trying to locate a good source of information about everything that lead up to this point, from the action of France in Syria, to the possible causes of these terrorist acts, etc. I'm *very* uneducated on the subject, and in general on modern politics, so I ask for your help. I know that I cannot have a unique and universally good source of information, and I know I'll have to use my critic thinking to filter what I'll read, but I ask your advice to start from some point. In these days we hear many things, read many opinions on the newspaper and on the internet: I'm extremely skeptical and often find myself thinking that I cannot trust what I hear around (especially in the days following such a shocking event) but I want to understand more and I want to have a deeper view of what's happening and has happened. Many thanks in advance to whom will help me! Do you read / understand french ? | ||
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Oshuy
Netherlands529 Posts
On November 16 2015 07:36 WhiteDog wrote: Yeah, but we decided to send the charles de gaulle (our biggest aircraft carrier) to Syria a little bit before the terrorist attack, so even the change of scale is not a direct response of the attacks. The aircraft carrier was planned to leave this week and get there next month so yes things were planned. Wouldn't have been operational for today. Change of scale was planned, date was moved. | ||
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VHbb
692 Posts
Hi WhiteDog, yes, I actually live in Paris  | ||
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Faefae
2203 Posts
On November 16 2015 07:47 Oshuy wrote: The aircraft carrier was planned to leave this week and get there next month so yes things were planned. Wouldn't have been operational for today. Change of scale was planned, date was moved. You are probably right. | ||
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ImFromPortugal
Portugal1368 Posts
If europe is serious about ending isis they have to be ready to pay the price.. or do you guys really think that this bombing will put a dent into isis capabilities? The guys have been getting bombed for so long they know how to minimize the damages. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
If you want to invade, what is your aftermath plan? Different aftermath plans have different costs and legal issues. Do you need estimates? | ||
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ImFromPortugal
Portugal1368 Posts
On November 16 2015 08:46 zlefin wrote: Bombing will kill some people, it won't seriously hurt them. If you want to invade, what is your aftermath plan? Different aftermath plans have different costs and legal issues. Do you need estimates? My solution is to provide aircover for the forces already on the ground. Kurds and Arabs fighting isis. | ||
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RuiBarbO
United States1340 Posts
On November 16 2015 07:38 VHbb wrote: Dear TL friends, I have a question / request for you. I'm trying to collect information and trying to study what happened in Paris, but I'm struggling to find a good source of information. I'm not talking about the details of the shooting, or the many news about what exactly happened on Friday evening. I'm trying to locate a good source of information about everything that lead up to this point, from the action of France in Syria, to the possible causes of these terrorist acts, etc. I'm *very* uneducated on the subject, and in general on modern politics, so I ask for your help. I know that I cannot have a unique and universally good source of information, and I know I'll have to use my critic thinking to filter what I'll read, but I ask your advice to start from some point. In these days we hear many things, read many opinions on the newspaper and on the internet: I'm extremely skeptical and often find myself thinking that I cannot trust what I hear around (especially in the days following such a shocking event) but I want to understand more and I want to have a deeper view of what's happening and has happened. Many thanks in advance to whom will help me! It's great to see people wanting to learn more about why these things happen! Here are my two cents, which are kind of long so sorry in advance: I think that looking at a bunch of different news sources is good for understanding what happened during the event itself. To understand the underlying reasons for why it happened---well, that is a HUGE question, and even among people who study this stuff for a living, there isn't necessarily a consensus. Different scholars have written about the Arab Spring, Syria, Islam and the West, and certainly about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. I'd look them up. Academic articles (in peer-reviewed journals or books) generally (ideally) receive heavy scrutiny to get published and you can feel fairly confident that the authors have given careful consideration to what they're saying, but unfortunately these can be hard to access if you aren't a member of a university. That said, Google Scholar is a good starting place. Non-academic articles can be good, but they can also be really misleading. The kind of scrutiny that goes into publishing them is different and when it comes to interpreting events, many writers/journalists will give you a very superficial explanation which, while usually easier to understand, is probably also not as accurate (and in some cases, totally unfounded). Unfortunately, it isn't easy to tell which are good and which aren't. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On November 16 2015 08:54 ImFromPortugal wrote: My solution is to provide aircover for the forces already on the ground. Kurds and Arabs fighting isis. that won't really defeat ISIS; but it is reasonably affordable. costs will run several billion total. it's also already been done for quite awhile. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
Great ! So there's a bunch of article in www.mediapart.com that give a pretty good picture of what happened, why paris, why now, etc. (especially the article "Pourquoi la France est-elle ciblée ?"). I also suggest listening to Gilles Kepel and Marc Trévidic interviewed on France 2 or France Culture, both have important things to say, especially Kepel who has knows a lot about Syria and ISIS (can find those interview on youtube or dailymotion). | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
You know what, screw all of that. The last couple of weeks I started seeing the refugee discussions bring the worst of people and the Paris attacks were an absolute climax of that. Since then, I have seen more idiotic bigoted narrowminded delusional paranoia than during the whole third of a century I have been on this world. There really is no more room for any subtlety and reservation. Now I am going into online (mostly FB) discussion with a clearly pro-refugee stance and just keep trying to dispel all the absurd hoaxes, misunderstanding, conspiracies and outright lies and people keep repeating over and over again. I still can't believe how all of this happened - people who I thought to be pretty reasonable are suddenly filled by unbelievable levels of fear and hate and are completely blindfolded to the absurdity of their rush statements. The losses of human lives are the most terrible thing imaginable. But the loss of humanity that crawls around is also pretty scary. In the heads of the crowds, the terrorists are winning. And I have no idea how they can be fought. | ||
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oBlade
United States6356 Posts
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PoP
France15446 Posts
On November 16 2015 08:40 ImFromPortugal wrote: so the french are making a symbolic bombing against isis ? ..they are more than ready to handle some more bombs, we need a coordinated plan with boots on the ground to end them, but is anybody willing to do so? i mean, the Kurds and their Arab allies are doing a good job so far, but many europeans are hurt and want to get some action as well. If europe is serious about ending isis they have to be ready to pay the price.. or do you guys really think that this bombing will put a dent into isis capabilities? The guys have been getting bombed for so long they know how to minimize the damages. You're right of course. We need a coordinated action with as many nations as possible, including local ones we didn't necessarily want to ally with (or at least work with) before, including Al Assad's army itself. However evil of a dictator the west openly considers him, he's got the same enemy as us, and most importantly knows the field, ISIS and how their soldiers behave. The bombing itself is at least sending a message in the meantime though. If it gets more frequent, systematic and determined it could end up damaging them way more than they've been up till now. | ||
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CptMarvel
France236 Posts
On November 16 2015 02:39 VelJa wrote: I just want to say this here I'm sad, but I'm not dead. For the second time in 2015, we face terror. I'm afraid, I'm not weak, I will live more & more my life because my ancester works for this : Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité. Ought to calm down with quoting the french revolution, aka the most wrongly praised and grossly misunderstood of all time. | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On November 16 2015 18:17 CptMarvel wrote: Ought to calm down with quoting the french revolution, aka the most wrongly praised and grossly misunderstood of all time. Hey, sacking jails and palaces while slicing of heads, iz all for liberty and democracy bro.. | ||
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Atoissen
Norway1737 Posts
Ouch  | ||
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CptMarvel
France236 Posts
On November 16 2015 18:19 Rebs wrote: Hey, sacking jails and palaces while slicing of heads, iz all for liberty and democracy bro.. Haha. Hiding behind democracy and liberty indeed, while really serving the everygrowing interests of the freshly born middle-class. A very symptomatic event that was a starting-block for (even darker) times to come. Same as singing La Marseillaise and putting a french flag filter over your facebook photo : not the best of choices in response to such events. However, because everyone's so desperate for a way to cope with grief, I'll let it go. | ||
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