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The Chess Thread - Page 101

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Grettin
Profile Joined April 2010
42393 Posts
November 28 2018 16:09 GMT
#2001
On November 29 2018 01:08 LennX wrote:
Magnus just won right?


Yup.
"If I had force-fields in Brood War, I'd never lose." -Bisu
uthgard
Profile Joined January 2015
2098 Posts
November 28 2018 16:09 GMT
#2002
aaaand this is why Magnus wanted the tiebreak
Warfie
Profile Joined February 2009
Norway2846 Posts
November 28 2018 16:15 GMT
#2003
I'm pretty impressed with caruana's play until he missed the check on e7 tbh, maybe he can make this exciting after all tho I kinda doubt it
sharkie
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Austria18629 Posts
November 28 2018 16:15 GMT
#2004
On November 29 2018 01:09 uthgard wrote:
aaaand this is why Magnus wanted the tiebreak


nothings decided yet
Jockmcplop
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom9838 Posts
November 28 2018 16:16 GMT
#2005
Strange game. Fabiano made the big blunders but Magnus still looked like he was struggling to make it count at times.
RIP Meatloaf <3
uthgard
Profile Joined January 2015
2098 Posts
November 28 2018 16:23 GMT
#2006
fast opening moves
mahrgell
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Germany3943 Posts
November 28 2018 16:32 GMT
#2007
On November 28 2018 20:31 Sr18 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2018 19:47 Bacillus wrote:
I don't follow chess that much outside these World Championship matches, so this may be totally silly, but...

Would it be possible to play some experimental chess tournaments with football (soccer) kind of scoring system where you get 3 points for winning, 1 for draw and 0 for losing? This would reward players for seeking sharp positions and mastery of aggressive play.

Such system obviously doesn't help directly in 1 on 1 matches, especially with these long time controls, but if for example canditates was played favouring aggresive players, maybe some of that practise and study could shape the matches in the actual World Championship too. It's more of an attempt to shape the overall style of play towards more crowd pleasing mindset rather than addressing the current issue right here and right now.

Just to be clear, I do appreaciate the overwhelming finesse and complexity of chess and don't want to force in any kind of crowd pleaser just for the sake of it. However, right now even the top players seem to be rather disappointed by the outcomes and it's definitely a very tough and demanding competition to follow even for a dedicated casualish viewer.


Such a scoring system has been used in the recent past. If I remember correctly it didn't change much. I wonder how tournaments would run if the point difference between a win and a draw were much larger (5 to 1 or even 10 to 1). Might still not change much, as a draw is also about preventing your opponent from getting a win.

1vs1 matches are easier to fix: make draws not count. Play a best of 5 or 7 where only decisive results count. The match might take longer, but the match strategy will at least change from "don't lose" to "must win".


There is also quite a bit resistance to the 3-1-0 system, because in tourney systems like double round robin or similar, where you meet twice, this system encourages win trading.
fishjie
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1519 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-28 16:46:01
November 28 2018 16:45 GMT
#2008
On November 28 2018 17:52 Longshank wrote:
I think that's the most common critique I've read/heard. That players are just playing computer lines for 20-25 moves


yeah that's what i mean by chess solved for the first 15 moves or so. that's actually insane if they're following computer lines for up to 20 moves - didn't even realize it was that bad. its lame and at that point its a competition of who has better memory.

for ordinary humans, yes obviously its irrelevant, since we'd never be able to memorize all that crap, so the games are still exciting and dynamic and filled with blunders. and even if you could memorize all the best moves, if opponent deviates you'd still need to know how to take advantage of inaccuracy. but super GMs can do all of that. so at the top tier god GM level its stale and solved. there needs to be a nerf to computer prep - chess960 is the best way to shakeup the meta

regarding end game tablebases, you might not know off the bat the best move to make, but just memorizing the fact that your position is winning will give you more confidence and then a super GM can then use their super calculation abilities to figure out the win from there
Mafe
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany5966 Posts
November 28 2018 17:05 GMT
#2009
Well, that's kinda anticlimactic.
Warfie
Profile Joined February 2009
Norway2846 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-28 17:07:10
November 28 2018 17:06 GMT
#2010
this is so over, no way caruana wins the last two
uthgard
Profile Joined January 2015
2098 Posts
November 28 2018 17:08 GMT
#2011
that was a bit surprising, guess that game 1 really affected him
fishjie
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1519 Posts
November 28 2018 17:09 GMT
#2012
oh wow magnus up 2-0. this is exciting and dynamic chess! still disappointed carlsen didn't make caruana play out 9 moves in 9 minutes in game 12, but magnus showing that in real chess, not boring computer prep memorization, he is still best
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10877 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-28 17:22:39
November 28 2018 17:20 GMT
#2013
On November 29 2018 01:45 fishjie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2018 17:52 Longshank wrote:
I think that's the most common critique I've read/heard. That players are just playing computer lines for 20-25 moves


yeah that's what i mean by chess solved for the first 15 moves or so. that's actually insane if they're following computer lines for up to 20 moves - didn't even realize it was that bad. its lame and at that point its a competition of who has better memory.

for ordinary humans, yes obviously its irrelevant, since we'd never be able to memorize all that crap, so the games are still exciting and dynamic and filled with blunders. and even if you could memorize all the best moves, if opponent deviates you'd still need to know how to take advantage of inaccuracy. but super GMs can do all of that. so at the top tier god GM level its stale and solved. there needs to be a nerf to computer prep - chess960 is the best way to shakeup the meta

regarding end game tablebases, you might not know off the bat the best move to make, but just memorizing the fact that your position is winning will give you more confidence and then a super GM can then use their super calculation abilities to figure out the win from there


You could easily argue that chess was and is allways about that?
It just has gotten much more obvious recently.

I barely ever play myself and i'm trash but i like the follow the wm. If people would just shut up about the CPU moves, stuff would still be just as exciting as before.
sharkie
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Austria18629 Posts
November 28 2018 17:39 GMT
#2014
wow fabi disappointing big in rapid
Warfie
Profile Joined February 2009
Norway2846 Posts
November 28 2018 17:53 GMT
#2015
On November 29 2018 02:39 sharkie wrote:
wow fabi disappointing big in rapid

did you expect better though?
sharkie
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Austria18629 Posts
November 28 2018 18:02 GMT
#2016
On November 29 2018 02:53 Warfie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2018 02:39 sharkie wrote:
wow fabi disappointing big in rapid

did you expect better though?


well considering how Fabi played timidly the whole classical part of the championship yes I expected better
This way I just wonder what Fabi and his team's game plan is.

As many of us have noted Carlsen is far from his best form and still comfortably won the whole thing.
Grettin
Profile Joined April 2010
42393 Posts
November 28 2018 18:22 GMT
#2017
ggs
"If I had force-fields in Brood War, I'd never lose." -Bisu
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5299 Posts
November 28 2018 18:23 GMT
#2018
GeeGeez!, maybe next time.
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
uthgard
Profile Joined January 2015
2098 Posts
November 28 2018 18:25 GMT
#2019
gg, was expecting more from Fabi but oh well Magnus still the best around
Warfie
Profile Joined February 2009
Norway2846 Posts
November 28 2018 18:27 GMT
#2020
On November 29 2018 03:02 sharkie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2018 02:53 Warfie wrote:
On November 29 2018 02:39 sharkie wrote:
wow fabi disappointing big in rapid

did you expect better though?


well considering how Fabi played timidly the whole classical part of the championship yes I expected better
This way I just wonder what Fabi and his team's game plan is.

As many of us have noted Carlsen is far from his best form and still comfortably won the whole thing.

almost feels like he drastically lowered his appetite for risk in the WC, at least going into rapid never seemed like a good idea - carlsen underperforming in normal evidently doesn't transfer to rapid
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