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On October 12 2012 15:09 nennx wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 14:54 epicanthic wrote:
Is it legal in the US to shoot trespassers on sight? Self-defense is one thing, but this is something else entirely. Depends on the state but more are allowing it. I know in Arizona, if you're in someone's house you're pretty much free game for murder regardless of why you're there.
Wow, that's so stupid! I mean being able to just kill someone because they are standing somewhere you don't like? What kind of a horrible legal system do they have?
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Jesus, this is not about why he owns a gun, but why the fuck does he just fucking shoot on sight? An ex-cop should have known better than that
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On October 12 2012 15:09 nennx wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 14:54 epicanthic wrote:
Is it legal in the US to shoot trespassers on sight? Self-defense is one thing, but this is something else entirely. Depends on the state but more are allowing it. I know in Arizona, if you're in someone's house you're pretty much free game for murder regardless of why you're there.
That sounds completely and utterly insane. Are you sure it's the case?
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On October 12 2012 15:10 DigiGnar wrote:
There was something in Houston today. (thursday) A cop shot dead a guy that "was charging" at him yet the guy was like six feet away with no weapons. A lot of people are pissed, albeit what got the cops called on him in the first place. (usual fight with father, molested his step-son or something)
Also, if you create more laws, it's just more time in jail. Laws do not prevent, just discourages.
Nope. Europe has "proved" it. Prohibition works when it comes to guns, because guns aren't easy to make like alcohol or weed.
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On October 12 2012 15:11 jdseemoreglass wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 15:09 nennx wrote:On October 12 2012 14:54 epicanthic wrote:
Is it legal in the US to shoot trespassers on sight? Self-defense is one thing, but this is something else entirely. Depends on the state but more are allowing it. I know in Arizona, if you're in someone's house you're pretty much free game for murder regardless of why you're there. Wow, that's so stupid! I mean being able to just kill someone because they are standing somewhere you don't like? What kind of a horrible legal system do they have? Am I right?
Yeah its fucked up and a lot of people don't realize the way the law is written it has pretty terrible consequences.
That sounds completely and utterly insane. Are you sure it's the case?
Pretty much the law says you can use deadly force to make someone leave your property
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On October 12 2012 15:13 nennx wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 15:11 jdseemoreglass wrote:On October 12 2012 15:09 nennx wrote:On October 12 2012 14:54 epicanthic wrote:
Is it legal in the US to shoot trespassers on sight? Self-defense is one thing, but this is something else entirely. Depends on the state but more are allowing it. I know in Arizona, if you're in someone's house you're pretty much free game for murder regardless of why you're there. Wow, that's so stupid! I mean being able to just kill someone because they are standing somewhere you don't like? What kind of a horrible legal system do they have? Am I right? Yeah its fucked up and a lot of people don't realize the way the law is written it has pretty terrible consequences. Pretty much the law says you can use deadly force to make someone leave your property
God, how do so many people support these types of laws? They are so obviously backwards. Must be because of the American education system or something. Maybe if they weren't spending so much on wars.
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I've said this forever... it's every American gun owners fantasy to defend their homestead with their firearm. Literally, its a fantasy. They look forward to it. I know numerous people like this. It justifies their machismo little fetish. But... cases where a home is successfully defended from an invader with a firearm are almost impossible to find.
For most people it's just a hobby that is an accident waiting to happen. So sad. You have to feel for everyone in these people's lives. Tragic.
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panic country strikes again.
media, politics and nra in the united states make people anxious of fucking everything.
fear sells.
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On October 12 2012 14:54 epicanthic wrote:
Is it legal in the US to shoot trespassers on sight? Self-defense is one thing, but this is something else entirely.
in certain states, mostly southern ones, yes
On October 12 2012 15:16 CursOr wrote:
I've said this forever... it's every American gun owners fantasy to defend their homestead with their firearm. Literally, its a fantasy. They look forward to it. I know numerous people like this. It justifies their machismo little fetish. But... cases where a home is successfully defended from an invader with a firearm are almost impossible to find.
For most people it's just a hobby that is an accident waiting to happen. So sad. You have to feel for everyone in these people's lives. Tragic.
my brother lives in texas, in a part where you can legally shoot your gun in your front yard if the bullet does not leave your property, and these are not large houses (average of what you find in a suburban neighborhood). he longs for the day someone robs his house because he does want to shoot somebody.
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On October 12 2012 15:16 CursOr wrote:
I've said this forever... it's every American gun owners fantasy to defend their homestead with their firearm. Literally, its a fantasy. They look forward to it. I know numerous people like this. It justifies their machismo little fetish. But... cases where a home is successfully defended from an invader with a firearm are almost impossible to find.
For most people it's just a hobby that is an accident waiting to happen. So sad. You have to feel for everyone in these people's lives. Tragic.
Im a gun owner and thats not my fantasy. . .
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Jesus people... He's not some gun toting psychopath.
This guy was a HOMICIDE detective for 40 years. Do you have any idea what that can do to a guy? If you think examining a homicide doesn't leave scar tissue in the brain, You're crazy. This guy might have had PTSD, he might have had a flash back of some fucked up shit he saw in his 40 years of homicide, and when his son came in the back door, His instincts took over and he cracked.
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damn that's really tragic 
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When will people learn and make laws against guns? We don't need them. If no one had guns, why would you need a gun to protect yourself? Wish the people of the United States would learn. The Euro countries that have banned them are ahead of the curve. We are so backwards in so many ways..
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On October 12 2012 15:22 Inori wrote:
I wonder if there's a comparison somewhere between causalities from shootings, accidents, etc and successful self-defense (in a situation where's it's actually needed)
Oh I know! There is. Probably several. And they all say you are more likely to die from your own gun than defending yourself so it makes no sense to own a gun for defense. There's really NO reason and it should be outlawed.
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On October 12 2012 15:11 brachester wrote:
Jesus, this is not about why he owns a gun, but why the fuck does he just fucking shoot on sight? An ex-cop should have known better than that
This. Exactly this. Should have identified first who's he shooting at.
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This man was a retired cop. A homicide detective to boot. He was (used to be at least) very qualified to use a gun. Hardly someone I'd consider a "regular person" owning a gun. In the US, if you bought the gun legally, you are allowed to have it. As far as the legality of shooting intruders on site, I'm pretty sure there isn't a law that says it's specifically ok, but arguing that you were justified in court is where the right vs wrong come into it legally, rather than it being a right or wrong thing pre-trial. AFIAK it's a case-by-case thing for self-defense cases and whether or not you were in the right. I don't really have an opinion on gun control either way, but for anyone who immediately thinks "we should take away all the guns and no one should have one" when they hear this sort of thing should realize that someone who thinks differently than you probably has 2 stories of having a gun paying off for every example you know of like the stories in the OP where it is clearly a big factor in a tragedy. Read an NRA magazine if you don't believe me. Every issue there's stories of guys with concealed carry permits stopping a robbery or rape or what-have-you. Just saying, there are definitely two sides to this argument, and its been argued plenty here and everywhere else.
Whether or not this man was in the right is a matter for court, and whether or not it is right for any random person to own/carry a gun is way to convoluted a debate to have again and again IMO. I hope this thread doesn't turn into that circular debate again ala DKR opening night thread. My heart goes out to the father though. Assuming that the investigation doesn't turn up some sort of motive for foul play, it seems like a terrible case of wrong place/wrong time. And to have shot your own son... It makes me feel sick to think about that loss. Hopefully having been a homicide detective for so long in Chicago would help cope with the aftermath/grief, I don't know how anybody would do it. :/
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It's not the guns in this case that cause the problem. They exaggerate it, but they're not the cause. Canada has tons of firearm owners, and their gun-murder rate is ridiculously lower than ours to a point where you can't even compare the two.
The fact is that both of these people were scared to death - one of a person walking into his house and another only in a neighbor's yard - so badly that they shot them in the head before knowing who they were shooting or what their intentions were.
The cause of the problem was fear. They were scared for their life because there was a person they didn't know within 100 yards of them. That's the problem we need to fix. Americans are scared shit-less by the tiniest things for no reason at all, and we need to figure out why (probably at least partly the media's over-focus on crime - it makes you forget the chances of being involved in such are actually very low) and start to work on ways to remove some of that fear from the American public.
And yet, sadly, >In before 20 more pages of gun debate and nobody focusing on the real issue.
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On October 12 2012 15:25 KillAudio wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 15:11 brachester wrote:
Jesus, this is not about why he owns a gun, but why the fuck does he just fucking shoot on sight? An ex-cop should have known better than that This. Exactly this. Should have identified first who's he shooting at.
Yeah but if he didn't own a gun it wouldn't have occurred so guns claim another unnecessary life.
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On October 12 2012 15:24 MurDeRsc2 wrote:
When will people learn and make laws against guns? We don't need them. If no one had guns, why would you need a gun to protect yourself? Wish the people of the United States would learn. The Euro countries that have banned them are ahead of the curve. We are so backwards in so many ways..
I don't know Japanese law but it seems Japan has their shit together with gun law.
I'm highly against gun ownership, but the US is too far gone to do anything about guns. There are too many in circulation which are both registered and unregistered. That is why when I'm older I'm going to move to a different country.
On October 12 2012 15:25 KillAudio wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 15:11 brachester wrote:
Jesus, this is not about why he owns a gun, but why the fuck does he just fucking shoot on sight? An ex-cop should have known better than that This. Exactly this. Should have identified first who's he shooting at.
lol just imagine if every time someone breaks into a house, the homeowner said "hello sir, do you have identification?"
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EPT
