President Obama Re-Elected - Page 339

On August 26 2012 00:32 SayGen wrote:
I refuse to vote for Obama cause he lied, like the 2 presidnets before him.

Clinton: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman"
Bush: "Iraq has WOMD"
Obama: "I will not raise taxes"

I can't vote for Romney cause he sort of lied to about what exactly he knew about Bain Capitol.
He did alot of dodging.

And Obama just screwed me with a 250-500$ tax increase every year-- the largest tax increase ever.
Obamacare- The first time in American history the goverment can force you to buy a product.
Scary times.

Shame one of them will win.
America, the country i've served 5+ years of military duty is on a massive decline.

Wish we had Hermain Cain.

On August 27 2012 06:43 Souma wrote:


The federal government is allowed to implement taxes, which is what they're doing (even if the Obama Administration keeps denying it). Police power would be arresting or fining them for not having health insurance, which require citations and remain on your record. It's different, although you can argue that taxing them and fining them are basically the same thing, though handled entirely differently.

On August 27 2012 07:10 radiatoren wrote:

Defining taxing and fining as the same thing does raise some questions about morality/behaviour though!
Remeber that there are only 2 and not 3 things in life that are unavoidable: Death and taxes!

On August 27 2012 06:23 BlueBird. wrote:


Am I an idiot/moron etc for not being able too afford health insurance before and now. My dads job didnt offer it, my mom couldnt afford it, then she left her job(was getting it from her before) too move closer too family after my step dad died and my step dad was disabled for 4 years absolutely unable to work eith severe brain damage, we only got disability back pay, and forward for the last month of his life cleared by the judge(as soon as a judge talked to him we got it, but it wasnt until then) government 1 month before he died, disability is a mess. How were we supposed too afford health insurance for me a healthy 18 year old, when we have tons of doctor bills and 1 income for the household.( I don't live at home now but yeah)

It falls within their powers according to the supreme court...

Also, Your ignoring the fact that moving is a big deal/process especially over a long distance like across the country, but how about just using the same argument at the national level. You can move out of the country if you don't like what your country is doing technically, so that argument doesn't work.

On August 27 2012 07:10 radiatoren wrote:

Defining taxing and fining as the same thing does raise some questions about morality/behaviour though!
Remeber that there are only 2 and not 3 things in life that are unavoidable: Death and taxes!

On August 27 2012 07:14 DoubleReed wrote:


Notice that neither of those things apply to corporations...

On August 27 2012 06:12 xDaunt wrote:

The police power is the general power to regulate individual behavior. The states are only limited by the Bill of Rights in exercising this power. I can't really make it any simpler than that. It is an elementary rule of Constitutional law.

On August 27 2012 07:14 JDub wrote:

With regards to your inability to buy health insurance, no that does not make you a moron. I believe xDaunt was most likely referring to young, single Americans who have more than enough money to buy health insurance but don't want to because they're healthy when he used the word "moron" -- now, this is me giving him the benefit of the doubt for his use of "run around without health insurance", and I'm really putting my own spin.

I would ask you though -- if your family's income is low enough, than perhaps:

a) you are eligible for Medicaid (and if you live in a state that doesn't have a conservative governor opting out of Medicaid expansion, this is more likely)
b) if health insurance would cost >8% of your income, you will not be taxed under Obamacare, so you don't have anything to complain about here
c) your family could purchase health insurance if you factor in the government subsidies for low-income families included in Obamacare

Now, I don't understand your situation and these are just 3 possible scenarios, but I believe Obamacare is designed to help everyone get the insurance they need.

As for the broccoli argument -- no, the government will never tax you if you don't buy broccoli. As it is, if you are uninsured but go to the ER in a hospital, you are entitled under EMTALA to get full treatment. If you don't have broccoli insurance and you go to the store, you don't get as much broccoli as you need. The two issues are totally different.

On August 27 2012 07:25 Risen wrote:
The Bill of Rights are the first ten amendments...... why would only those ten apply to states and the rest not? The states are bound by all relevant portions of our constitution.

On August 27 2012 07:25 xDaunt wrote:
All of you are missing the critical difference between what the states can make you do and what the Feds can make you do. Unless behavior falls within the enumerated powers of Congress (which are limited), the Feds cannot unconditionally force you to do or not do something. In contrast, the states do have this power.

Now, a number of you are talking about the Feds using the tax power to force individual action. This is not the same because the individual has a choice to pay the tax instead of doing what the Feds want. Moreover, the Feds cannot make the tax do high as to effectively not give thr individual a choice. If you reread the Obamacare Supreme Court decision, you'll see that this point is expressly made.

By a vote of 5–4, The Court upheld the individual mandate component of the ACA as a valid exercise of Congress' power to "lay and collect taxes" (Art. I, §8, cl. 1).[30] Roberts, writing for the Court, explained:[31]

      The Affordable Care Act's requirement that certain individuals pay a financial penalty for not obtaining health insurance may reasonably be characterized as a tax. Because the Constitution permits such a tax, it is not our role to forbid it, or to pass upon its wisdom or fairness.

On August 27 2012 07:28 xDaunt wrote:
Christ, don't they teach kids anything about the Constituion anymore? There are some critical gaps in knowledge here. This is all very basic stuff.

On August 27 2012 07:54 Souma wrote:


Do you REALLY want to quote the Supreme Court decision on Obamacare? If so, let's see:





I apologize for five Supreme Court justices failing Constitutional Law.

Congress’s ability to use its taxing power to influence conduct is not without limits. A few of our cases policed these limits aggressively, invalidating punitive exactions obviously designed to regulate behavior otherwise regarded at the time as beyond federal authority. See, e.g., United States v. Butler, 297 U. S. 1 (1936); Drexel Furniture, 259 U. S. 20. More often and more recently we have declined to closely examine the regulatory motive or effect of revenue-raising measures. See Kahriger, 345 U. S., at 27–31 (collecting cases). We have nonetheless maintained that “ ‘there comes a time in the extension of the penalizing features of the so-called tax when it loses its character as such and becomes a mere penalty with the characteristics of regulation and punishment.’” Kurth Ranch, 511 U. S., at 779 (quoting Drexel Furniture, supra, at 38).

We have already explained that the shared responsibility payment’s practical characteristics pass muster as a tax under our narrowest interpretations of the taxing power. Supra, at 35–36. Because the tax at hand is within even those strict limits, we need not here decide the precise point at which an exaction becomes so punitive that the taxing power does not authorize it. It remains true, however, that the “ ‘power to tax is not the power to destroy while this Court sits.’ ” Oklahoma Tax Comm’n v. Texas Co., 336 U. S. 342, 364 (1949) (quoting Panhandle Oil Co. v. Mississippi ex rel. Knox, 277 U. S. 218, 223 (1928) (Holmes, J., dissenting)).

On August 27 2012 07:09 darthfoley wrote:


Herman Cain? lol

On August 27 2012 03:12 Gahlo wrote:

I don't know about you, but I'm forced to buy car insurance. The only way that Obamacare forces you to pay more is if you don't have health insurance and are buying it now, or are making a conscious choice not to. Only the second is a tax, and I honestly fail to empathize on it.


I think, with politicians especially, we need to remember what a lie is. A lie is when you say something that is untrue, and you know it or when you say something and have absolutely no intention of backing it up.

On August 27 2012 08:34 SayGen wrote:


1) No one MAKES you buy a car.
2) If you breathe you have to have Health Insurance.
3) Health Insurance in America start rising THE DAY AFTER HE PASSED OBAMACARE when he said it would lower it for everyone.

I do not vote for liars.

I'm just sick of being lied to by politicans. Obama lied, period.

On August 27 2012 08:29 SayGen wrote:


So much for this thread being closly moderated, when people can troll your posts and not add anything to the conversation. *Golf clap*

Hermain Cain would of been a great leader.
1) He isn't a real politican.
2) He had great ideas. 999, lower taxes for EVERYONE, less government red tape, Working with the EPA to get them to help business find alternative solutions to help him them into complicance and protect our water and air.
3) He has expereince being a 'Leader'.
4) Unlike Obama,Romney,Clinton,Bush He never said a falsehood. (refering to his political works, obv everyone has lied at some point)

On August 27 2012 08:34 SayGen wrote:


1) No one MAKES you buy a car.
2) If you breathe you have to have Health Insurance.
3) Health Insurance in America start rising THE DAY AFTER HE PASSED OBAMACARE when he said it would lower it for everyone.

I do not vote for liars.

I'm just sick of being lied to by politicans. Obama lied, period.

On August 27 2012 08:42 aksfjh wrote:

I'm sure everybody that voted for the law expected it to solve rising healthcare costs the very next day. That's how it works. Long arguments about what to do, and then overnight everything is fixed. Sounds like politics to me!