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United States5162 Posts
On January 05 2012 05:24 Dapper_Cad wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 05:20 Myles wrote:On January 05 2012 05:12 Dapper_Cad wrote:On January 05 2012 05:02 Kiarip wrote:On January 05 2012 05:00 Djzapz wrote:On January 05 2012 04:56 Voros wrote:Healthcare is a service provided by an individual. You can't have a "RIGHT" to what someone else does/provides, it violates his personal freedom. That may not suit the utopians who don't understand the real-world consequences of universal healthcare, but in a world characterized by scarcity of commodities, it's the best we have. Utopians lol =) Only in America? if everyone has a right to everything they need why should anyone bother to do anything? And once no one is doing anything, where are all those things that everyone has a right to going to come from? Because they are human. It is absolutely self evident that humans continue to be creative and work hard once they have escaped the immediate problem life threatening poverty. The key to understanding the world must be observing the world, not half baked rationalisation blacked up by some streaks of paint on a white board. The extreme libertarian position is utterly blind to observable data. Observable data says that there are a ton of shitty jobs that only get done because the people doing them have needs and wants. You think someone wants to be a ditch digger, janitor, or McDonalds worker? Well, I'm sure there are some, but most do it because if they don't they can't support themselves. You aren't disagreeing with my point, you are ranting. I say people continue to work hard after they have escaped poverty. You say that people in poverty work hard. Do you see how you have missed my point?
Why would someone continue to work hard in a shitty job they don't like when they don't need the money to keep eating or living? People work hard and are creative in endeavors they enjoy.
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The most interesting story coming out of last night's results is Newt's palpable hatred of Romney. Newt may actually dedicate his campaign towards torpedoing Romney from here on out, which could leave Santorum as the last man standing.
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It really is saddening, and scary. People in America continue to ignore History, and the obvious realization that this administration wants to completely CHANGE America.
Socialism and Communism have never worked, and will continue to fail, The government doesn't give a shit about you! It's all about power, and control. WHYYYYY do people let America take 50 steps back with this administration, the things this President has done, he should have been assassinated by now - it's treachery, this Country is in turmoil, and if he wins again, it's over - this Country will never be the same again, more so than now, and I seriously think he'd start a civil war/split.
Go fucking read a history book, Capitalism isn't perfect, but it provides equal opportunity for everyone, or go live in a Country that shares your ideals on how a Country should be run. I'm a conservative, but I can handle some Democrat ideas, sometimes the private sector can get out of hand and needs regulation, but Marxism/Socialism!? HOW IS THIS OK IN AMERICA?!?
There are THOUSANDS of programs to help poor and needy people, the last thing they need is everything handed to them. My brother is a New York State EMT, he can testify that thousands of people, many are homeless, get free healthcare and treatment, even though they cannot afford it.
Fuck I hate politics, you have to explain this to people who are already too ignorant to see this, it's no use.
Our Allies look at us, and think we're fucking insane/incredibly stupid letting this Administration do what it has.
Republican 2012, or its over.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On January 05 2012 05:31 v3chr0 wrote:
It really is saddening, and scary. People in America continue to ignore History, and the obvious realization that this administration wants to completely CHANGE America.
Socialism and Communism have never worked, and will continue to fail, The government doesn't give a shit about you! It's all about power, and control. WHYYYYY do people let America take 50 steps back with this administration, the things this President has done, he should have been assassinated by now - it's treachery, this Country is in turmoil, and if he wins again, it's over - this Country will never be the same again, more so than now, and I seriously think he'd start a civil war/split.
Go fucking read a history book, Capitalism isn't perfect, but it's provides equal opportunity for everyone, or go live in a Country that shares your ideals on how a Country should be run. I'm a conservative, but I can handle some Democrat ideas, sometimes the private sector can get out of hand and needs regulation, but LIBERALISM, and Socialism!? HOW IS THIS OK IN AMERICA?!?
There are THOUSANDS of programs to help poor and needy people, the last thing they need is everything handed to them. My brother is a New York State EMT, he can testify that thousands of people, many are homeless, get free healthcare and treatment, even though they cannot afford it.
Fuck I hate politics, you have to explain this to people who are already too ignorant to see this, it's no use.
Republican 2012, or its over.
You say all this shit and then 'Republican 2012'? .....you're jaded. Implying that Obama is a socialist or communist shows that you know what neither word means as he is as moderate as they come, and a corporate shill.
You also don't understand how pervasive poverty is RIGHT NOW. The top 1-5% are getting richer while the rest of us grow poorer. Something has to change, and I doubt it's going to be because of a politician.
TBH, you sound a bit ignorant yourself. Also, you should be banned for saying the pres should be assassinated.
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On January 05 2012 05:31 v3chr0 wrote:
It really is saddening, and scary. People in America continue to ignore History, and the obvious realization that this administration wants to completely CHANGE America.
Socialism and Communism have never worked, and will continue to fail, The government doesn't give a shit about you! It's all about power, and control. WHYYYYY do people let America take 50 steps back with this administration, the things this President has done, he should have been assassinated by now - it's treachery, this Country is in turmoil, and if he wins again, it's over - this Country will never be the same again, more so than now, and I seriously think he'd start a civil war/split.
Go fucking read a history book, Capitalism isn't perfect, but it provides equal opportunity for everyone, or go live in a Country that shares your ideals on how a Country should be run. I'm a conservative, but I can handle some Democrat ideas, sometimes the private sector can get out of hand and needs regulation, but LIBERALISM, and Socialism!? HOW IS THIS OK IN AMERICA?!?
There are THOUSANDS of programs to help poor and needy people, the last thing they need is everything handed to them. My brother is a New York State EMT, he can testify that thousands of people, many are homeless, get free healthcare and treatment, even though they cannot afford it.
Fuck I hate politics, you have to explain this to people who are already too ignorant to see this, it's no use.
Our Allies look at us, and think we're fucking insane/incredibly stupid letting this Administration do what it has.
Republican 2012, or its over.
Our history books maybe incorrect on the subject, but they suggest that liberalism is one half of america's essence.
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On January 05 2012 05:31 v3chr0 wrote:
...the things this President has done, he should have been assassinated by now - it's treachery, this Country is in turmoil, and if he wins again, it's over - this Country will never be the same again, more so than now, and I seriously think he'd start a civil war/split.
That is just fucking insane. Obama doesn't deserve to be assassinated and the country is not headed toward a civil war.
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On January 05 2012 05:35 ohmkerg wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 05:31 v3chr0 wrote:
It really is saddening, and scary. People in America continue to ignore History, and the obvious realization that this administration wants to completely CHANGE America.
Socialism and Communism have never worked, and will continue to fail, The government doesn't give a shit about you! It's all about power, and control. WHYYYYY do people let America take 50 steps back with this administration, the things this President has done, he should have been assassinated by now - it's treachery, this Country is in turmoil, and if he wins again, it's over - this Country will never be the same again, more so than now, and I seriously think he'd start a civil war/split.
Go fucking read a history book, Capitalism isn't perfect, but it's provides equal opportunity for everyone, or go live in a Country that shares your ideals on how a Country should be run. I'm a conservative, but I can handle some Democrat ideas, sometimes the private sector can get out of hand and needs regulation, but LIBERALISM, and Socialism!? HOW IS THIS OK IN AMERICA?!?
There are THOUSANDS of programs to help poor and needy people, the last thing they need is everything handed to them. My brother is a New York State EMT, he can testify that thousands of people, many are homeless, get free healthcare and treatment, even though they cannot afford it.
Fuck I hate politics, you have to explain this to people who are already too ignorant to see this, it's no use.
Republican 2012, or its over. You say all this shit and then 'Republican 2012'? .....you're jaded. Implying that Obama is a socialist or communist shows that you know what neither word means as he is as moderate as they come, and a corporate shill. You also don't understand how pervasive poverty is RIGHT NOW. The top 1-5% are getting richer while the rest of us grow poorer. Something has to change, and I doubt it's going to be because of a politician. TBH, you sound a bit ignorant yourself. Also, you should be banned for saying the pres should be assassinated.
Look, republicans aren't the best choice, but they won't do what this guy has, at least they will abide by the constitution and support the development and not demise of this Country.
Obama wants to redistribute wealth, that's socialism, sorry, you can't cut it any other way.
Rich people create jobs, and spread wealth, when is the last time you got your pay check from a poor person? Please, those poor people do not need to be poor.
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On January 05 2012 05:31 v3chr0 wrote:
It really is saddening, and scary. People in America continue to ignore History, and the obvious realization that this administration wants to completely CHANGE America.
Socialism and Communism have never worked, and will continue to fail, The government doesn't give a shit about you! It's all about power, and control. WHYYYYY do people let America take 50 steps back with this administration, the things this President has done, he should have been assassinated by now - it's treachery, this Country is in turmoil, and if he wins again, it's over - this Country will never be the same again, more so than now, and I seriously think he'd start a civil war/split.
Go fucking read a history book, Capitalism isn't perfect, but it provides equal opportunity for everyone, or go live in a Country that shares your ideals on how a Country should be run. I'm a conservative, but I can handle some Democrat ideas, sometimes the private sector can get out of hand and needs regulation, but LIBERALISM, and Socialism!? HOW IS THIS OK IN AMERICA?!?
There are THOUSANDS of programs to help poor and needy people, the last thing they need is everything handed to them. My brother is a New York State EMT, he can testify that thousands of people, many are homeless, get free healthcare and treatment, even though they cannot afford it.
Fuck I hate politics, you have to explain this to people who are already too ignorant to see this, it's no use.
Our Allies look at us, and think we're fucking insane/incredibly stupid letting this Administration do what it has.
Republican 2012, or its over.
Obama should have been assassinated? Wow.
Except there is not equal oppurtunity in America, despite what you might claim. I'm suprised people are still arguing this. (just by the way you are born set ups different and unbalanced oppurtunities)
I'm curious as to what allies are looking at us and thinking we are insane. I'd love some quotes on that.
I'm also curious as to say how someone like Santorum would be better than Obama? I can understand Romney/Paul/even Gingrich. But Santorum?
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On January 05 2012 05:31 v3chr0 wrote:
[...]but LIBERALISM [...]? HOW IS THIS OK IN AMERICA?!?
really dude?
I will read you the definition on wikipedia:
Liberalism (from the Latin liberalis) is the belief in the importance of liberty and equal rights.
How could anyone want this, it's a fucking mystery!
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On January 05 2012 05:39 1Eris1 wrote:
I'm also curious as to say how someone like Santorum would be better than Obama? I can understand Romney/Paul/even Gingrich. But Santorum?
There's probably a solid 40% of the country or so that would prefer a head of lettuce over Obama (myself included). It doesn't really matter who the Republican nominee is, that chunk of America will vote for him.
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Also might be a dumb question, but the "reigning" party always tries to re-elect it's current president, if it's his/her first term?
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On January 05 2012 05:42 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 05:39 1Eris1 wrote:
I'm also curious as to say how someone like Santorum would be better than Obama? I can understand Romney/Paul/even Gingrich. But Santorum? There's probably a solid 40% of the country or so that would prefer a head of lettuce over Obama (myself included). It doesn't really matter who the Republican nominee is, that chunk of America will vote for him.
I'm just confused why you would vote for someone who thinks more wars=good and wants to make the bible the leading jurisdiction in our country. -.-
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United States22883 Posts
Here's some food for thought by others who are puzzled about the Iowa result:
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/01/does-the-iowa-economy-matter-for-the-iowa-caucus/250799/
Less economic problems means they're more willing to vote for social issues (Santorum.) On top of that, there's a lot of agriculture in Iowa which receives a lot of government subsidies, making Ron Paul a relatively unfavorable candidate.
The rest of the conversation on this page is just... pathetic. We've been through these elementary arguments 80,000 times before on this site. Really no need to participate in them again.
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On January 05 2012 05:48 1Eris1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 05:42 xDaunt wrote:On January 05 2012 05:39 1Eris1 wrote:
I'm also curious as to say how someone like Santorum would be better than Obama? I can understand Romney/Paul/even Gingrich. But Santorum? There's probably a solid 40% of the country or so that would prefer a head of lettuce over Obama (myself included). It doesn't really matter who the Republican nominee is, that chunk of America will vote for him. I'm just confused why you would vote for someone who thinks more wars=good and wants to make the bible the leading jurisdiction in our country. -.-
....because that's not what he advocates?
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On January 05 2012 05:27 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 05:24 Dapper_Cad wrote:On January 05 2012 05:20 Myles wrote:On January 05 2012 05:12 Dapper_Cad wrote:On January 05 2012 05:02 Kiarip wrote:On January 05 2012 05:00 Djzapz wrote:On January 05 2012 04:56 Voros wrote:Healthcare is a service provided by an individual. You can't have a "RIGHT" to what someone else does/provides, it violates his personal freedom. That may not suit the utopians who don't understand the real-world consequences of universal healthcare, but in a world characterized by scarcity of commodities, it's the best we have. Utopians lol =) Only in America? if everyone has a right to everything they need why should anyone bother to do anything? And once no one is doing anything, where are all those things that everyone has a right to going to come from? Because they are human. It is absolutely self evident that humans continue to be creative and work hard once they have escaped the immediate problem life threatening poverty. The key to understanding the world must be observing the world, not half baked rationalisation blacked up by some streaks of paint on a white board. The extreme libertarian position is utterly blind to observable data. Observable data says that there are a ton of shitty jobs that only get done because the people doing them have needs and wants. You think someone wants to be a ditch digger, janitor, or McDonalds worker? Well, I'm sure there are some, but most do it because if they don't they can't support themselves. You aren't disagreeing with my point, you are ranting. I say people continue to work hard after they have escaped poverty. You say that people in poverty work hard. Do you see how you have missed my point? Why would someone continue to work hard in a shitty job they don't like when they don't need the money to keep eating or living? People work hard and are creative in endeavors they enjoy.
You just restated your own point, again failing to understand mine which was in response to the completely assertion that people don't work unless threatened with death.
I agree that people will do shitty jobs in order to survive. I don't agree that people stop working hard when their survival is guaranteed.
On January 05 2012 05:31 v3chr0 wrote:
It really is saddening, and scary. People in America continue to ignore History, and the obvious realization that this administration wants to completely CHANGE America.
Socialism and Communism have never worked, and will continue to fail, The government doesn't give a shit about you! It's all about power, and control. WHYYYYY do people let America take 50 steps back with this administration, the things this President has done, he should have been assassinated by now - it's treachery, this Country is in turmoil, and if he wins again, it's over - this Country will never be the same again, more so than now, and I seriously think he'd start a civil war/split.
Go fucking read a history book, Capitalism isn't perfect, but it provides equal opportunity for everyone, or go live in a Country that shares your ideals on how a Country should be run. I'm a conservative, but I can handle some Democrat ideas, sometimes the private sector can get out of hand and needs regulation, but LIBERALISM, and Socialism!? HOW IS THIS OK IN AMERICA?!?
There are THOUSANDS of programs to help poor and needy people, the last thing they need is everything handed to them. My brother is a New York State EMT, he can testify that thousands of people, many are homeless, get free healthcare and treatment, even though they cannot afford it.
Fuck I hate politics, you have to explain this to people who are already too ignorant to see this, it's no use.
Our Allies look at us, and think we're fucking insane/incredibly stupid letting this Administration do what it has.
Republican 2012, or its over.
You seem to think that Obama is a socialist. I suggest you find out what the word means before you use it again.
There have been some suggestions in this thread that U.S. healthcare in it's current state is approximately as efficient as socialised health care in other states. This is simply wrong.
![[image loading]](http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/factbook-2010-en/images/graphics/10-02-02-g1.gif)
The U.S. health care system is wildly inefficient in comparison to other states socialised systems. Now the solution could be to try a completely new and never before seen model of healthcare based on an unprovable economic ideology and the very nebulous concept of personal freedom or you could do what other countries are doing and perhaps double the efficiency of your healthcare spending overall, maybe even reducing government healthcare spending in the process.
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On January 05 2012 05:38 v3chr0 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 05:35 ohmkerg wrote:On January 05 2012 05:31 v3chr0 wrote:
It really is saddening, and scary. People in America continue to ignore History, and the obvious realization that this administration wants to completely CHANGE America.
Socialism and Communism have never worked, and will continue to fail, The government doesn't give a shit about you! It's all about power, and control. WHYYYYY do people let America take 50 steps back with this administration, the things this President has done, he should have been assassinated by now - it's treachery, this Country is in turmoil, and if he wins again, it's over - this Country will never be the same again, more so than now, and I seriously think he'd start a civil war/split.
Go fucking read a history book, Capitalism isn't perfect, but it's provides equal opportunity for everyone, or go live in a Country that shares your ideals on how a Country should be run. I'm a conservative, but I can handle some Democrat ideas, sometimes the private sector can get out of hand and needs regulation, but LIBERALISM, and Socialism!? HOW IS THIS OK IN AMERICA?!?
There are THOUSANDS of programs to help poor and needy people, the last thing they need is everything handed to them. My brother is a New York State EMT, he can testify that thousands of people, many are homeless, get free healthcare and treatment, even though they cannot afford it.
Fuck I hate politics, you have to explain this to people who are already too ignorant to see this, it's no use.
Republican 2012, or its over. You say all this shit and then 'Republican 2012'? .....you're jaded. Implying that Obama is a socialist or communist shows that you know what neither word means as he is as moderate as they come, and a corporate shill. You also don't understand how pervasive poverty is RIGHT NOW. The top 1-5% are getting richer while the rest of us grow poorer. Something has to change, and I doubt it's going to be because of a politician. TBH, you sound a bit ignorant yourself. Also, you should be banned for saying the pres should be assassinated. Look, republicans aren't the best choice, but they won't do what this guy has, at least they will abide by the constitution and support the development and not demise of this Country. Obama wants to redistribute wealth, that's socialism, sorry, you can't cut it any other way. Rich people create jobs, and spread wealth, when is the last time you got your pay check from a poor person? Please, those poor people do not need to be poor.
While the country is drowning in unemployment and foreclosures, let's look at the great "trickle-down" economics.
Here is a list of many investment bank executives' pay. This was back in 2007 when the economy was about to get absolutely bombed. Oh yeah, we all get paid by rich people right?
And by the way, go learn something. Obama wants to redistribute wealth? Hell, it's called higher taxes and reducing deductions. And socialism is an ideology by which the mode of production is controlled by the populace (everyone). No one is proposing everyone in America earning an equal share in all services. If you have some decency, learn some of the things you say first.
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On January 05 2012 05:38 v3chr0 wrote:
Look, republicans aren't the best choice, but they won't do what this guy has, at least they will abide by the constitution and support the development and not demise of this Country.
Obama wants to redistribute wealth, that's socialism, sorry, you can't cut it any other way.
Rich people create jobs, and spread wealth, when is the last time you got your pay check from a poor person? Please, those poor people do not need to be poor.
Yeah, they'll do what Bush has; throw us into another war (Iran). That doesn't sound better.
Obama just passed the NDAA, extended the bush tax cuts for the rich and passed a mediocre healthcare plan where he didn't even argue for single payer (which is what he ran his campaign on). Explain to me how he's a socialist? Or do you even know what it means?
If you honestly think that poor people have the easy opportunity to get out of poverty and get a nice job as everyone else does then you need to go do some research on generational and situational poverty
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On January 05 2012 05:49 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 05:48 1Eris1 wrote:On January 05 2012 05:42 xDaunt wrote:On January 05 2012 05:39 1Eris1 wrote:
I'm also curious as to say how someone like Santorum would be better than Obama? I can understand Romney/Paul/even Gingrich. But Santorum? There's probably a solid 40% of the country or so that would prefer a head of lettuce over Obama (myself included). It doesn't really matter who the Republican nominee is, that chunk of America will vote for him. I'm just confused why you would vote for someone who thinks more wars=good and wants to make the bible the leading jurisdiction in our country. -.- ....because that's not what he advocates?
Have you actually watched any of the debates he's been in? Or read any of his statements?
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On January 05 2012 05:39 1Eris1 wrote:
I'm also curious as to say how someone like Santorum would be better than Obama? I can understand Romney/Paul/even Gingrich. But Santorum?
Santorum will not win, he burned way to many bridges here in Pennsylvania to be able to pull this state from the D's.
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On January 05 2012 05:38 v3chr0 wrote:
Rich people create jobs, and spread wealth, when is the last time you got your pay check from a poor person? Please, those poor people do not need to be poor.
This is Dogma.
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EPT
