• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:30
CEST 08:30
KST 15:30
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers14Maestros of the Game 2 announced82026 GSL Tour plans announced14Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid24
StarCraft 2
General
Maestros of the Game 2 announced Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists MaNa leaves Team Liquid 2026 GSL Tour plans announced Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool
Tourneys
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 522 Flip My Base The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss Mutation # 520 Moving Fees
Brood War
General
ASL21 General Discussion Pros React To: ASL S21, Ro.16 Group C BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [TOOL] Starcraft Chat Translator Data needed
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro16 Group C [ASL21] Ro16 Group D [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro16 Group B
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Diablo IV Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Sexual Health Of Gamers
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1520 users

Human Centipede II banned in the UK - Page 16

Forum Index > General Forum
Post a Reply
Prev 1 14 15 16 17 18 31 Next All
Please read the topic before responding to the title. The film has been cut and given a rating, it is no longer banned. - KwarK
DeepElemBlues
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States5079 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-08 06:02:36
June 08 2011 06:01 GMT
#301

But wouldnt that same logic work in the case of "violent/gory" media and murder?
i.e. violent video games would lead to murder, therefore we should ban those video games?


I think the distinction should be made between getting pleasure from "accomplishing" something like headshotting that snotnosed little shit who keeps screaming obscenities into the mic in his pre-pubescent screechvoice on Modern Warfare, and getting sexual pleasure from it. Those are two different beasts.

Most serial killers (and obviously rapists) get sexual pleasure from dominating and causing terror and humiliation in their victims, it's conceivable that they could be urged on by viewing violent material or depictions of sexual violence. I don't think it's a big enough concern that we should be toning down violence to pre-Easy Rider levels and depictions in media, but coarsening the culture and possibly giving inspiration to some whacko should be something we think about if we're going to write a book or make a movie that is incredibly, awfully, graphically violent and "disturbing."

There's nothing wrong with discretion. As long as its not enforced by a jackboot in the face.
no place i'd rather be than the satellite of love
zobz
Profile Joined November 2005
Canada2175 Posts
June 08 2011 06:26 GMT
#302
On June 08 2011 15:01 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Show nested quote +

But wouldnt that same logic work in the case of "violent/gory" media and murder?
i.e. violent video games would lead to murder, therefore we should ban those video games?

...

There's nothing wrong with discretion. As long as its not enforced by a jackboot in the face.

No, as long as the majority and you agree that the discretion is in order, and as long as the government gives you the chance to cooperate willingly before they fine or handcuff you, and only under the threat of shooting you if you don't consent to being handcuffed/fined, as long as it's not a jackboot in the face.
"That's not gonna be good for business." "That's not gonna be good for anybody."
Phenny
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia1435 Posts
June 08 2011 06:27 GMT
#303
Ugh censorship is the worst, can't say I'd ever watch this shit but that doesn't change anything.
Kamais_Ookin
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada4218 Posts
June 08 2011 06:28 GMT
#304
On June 08 2011 08:25 thekibk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2011 08:01 emythrel wrote:
Damn i don't remember a film being banned since The Exorcist...... this must be some heavy shit if it got banned in the UK... we have pretty liberal film ratings these days, films that were 18's when the were released 15 years ago are now 12's lol


Lol, I got interested and did some research on what has been banned. There have been 11 bans in the United Kingdom:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banned_films#United_Kingdom

only Three Remained Banned:
Visions of Ecstacy (for religious crimes)
Mikey (A Child murders people)
Grotesque (Japanese)

I don't really care. I hate all forms of horror movies. But freedom of speech seems kinda important, even though this would inspire some fucked up shit.
I watched Grotesque out of curiosity since I like these types of movies and I realized I can't stomach it the way I used to be able to only like a year or 2 ago, I feel pretty nauseous right now as a result.
I <3 Plexa.
DeepElemBlues
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States5079 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-08 06:46:53
June 08 2011 06:43 GMT
#305
No, as long as the majority and you agree that the discretion is in order, and as long as the government gives you the chance to cooperate willingly before they fine or handcuff you, and only under the threat of shooting you if you don't consent to being handcuffed/fined, as long as it's not a jackboot in the face.


That's a nice little fantasy you have there.

Be careful, Big Brother is always watching.

Right?

It's very selfish and entitled to think you should be able to do or say what you want and if people don't like it or, God forbid, don't want their children to know about it, well, they are just a bunch of fascists. Bravo, you've put out a work that degrades the humanity of the characters in the most disgusting ways you can think of! You are such a free spirit! If we don't approve, why, free speech is at risk!
no place i'd rather be than the satellite of love
Gracksaurusrex
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom171 Posts
June 08 2011 06:44 GMT
#306
I am so glad about this
Therealdevil
Profile Joined May 2010
Netherlands1021 Posts
June 08 2011 06:50 GMT
#307
I actually skipped through the first one because it was so boring.
I'll probably skip through the second one aswell ^_^

That director is just a shitty film maker so needs to do weird stuff to get attention.
zobz
Profile Joined November 2005
Canada2175 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-08 08:41:44
June 08 2011 06:53 GMT
#308
On June 08 2011 15:43 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Show nested quote +
No, as long as the majority and you agree that the discretion is in order, and as long as the government gives you the chance to cooperate willingly before they fine or handcuff you, and only under the threat of shooting you if you don't consent to being handcuffed/fined, as long as it's not a jackboot in the face.


That's a nice little fantasy you have there.

Be careful, Big Brother is always watching.

Right?

I don't understand. I described the way law enforcement works. What about it do you find fantastical? Big brother is a cooky sci-fi depiction of a very real idea. Giving the government unnecessary control over our lives is a good thing, right? Could you maybe be more elaborate?
It's very selfish and entitled to think you should be able to do or say what you want and if people don't like it or, God forbid, don't want their children to know about it, well, they are just a bunch of fascists. Bravo, you've put out a work that degrades the humanity of the characters in the most disgusting ways you can think of! You are such a free spirit! If we don't approve, why, free speech is at risk!

Free speech is not put at risk by you not approving, it's put at risk by you physically forcing people not to speak, which is more or less what you're suggesting. The people who made that movie are not free spirits, they're idiots. I never said otherwise and I'd appretiate it if you didn't simply invent things about me for you not to like.

The law's only reason for existing is to protect individual rights. Any action that does not violate the rights of others is a right, and to inhibit such actions by law is fascism. The production and even the sale of a disgusting dehumanizing movie does not inherently violate anyone's rights. If you don't like it being offered then you should refrain from going to the places where it's offered. People will not offer it in places where those uninterested in the offer don't frequent, and should be easy enough to avoid. You can control either your child's access to such things, or the way he/she interprets such things. Keep in mind I'm not telling you how to be a parent, I'm telling you how to not be a fascist.
"That's not gonna be good for business." "That's not gonna be good for anybody."
nttea
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Sweden4353 Posts
June 08 2011 06:54 GMT
#309
I'm totally going to watch this, first one was aweeesome. How can you claim it was boring? dude was stitching people together!!
RandyPinkwood
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany92 Posts
June 08 2011 07:03 GMT
#310
So the whole purpose of this movie is to be as disgusting as possible?
I am normaly against any kind of censorship since it normaly gets circumvented or gives
the shit promotion, but yes i can understand why they banned it and i can't realy disagree...
WC3 nightelf , SC2 Terran <3 moving buildings
Inosid
Profile Joined April 2011
Finland10 Posts
June 08 2011 07:11 GMT
#311
banning movie is just s statement again the filmmakers,it doesnt prevent anyone from watching the movie obviously cuz of the internet.They are just adding to the publicity of the movie by banning it.Im sure a lot of people would had not even noticed that this kinda movie was coming. So as a conclusion its a stupid thing to do to ban it
Elzar
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany204 Posts
June 08 2011 07:39 GMT
#312
On June 08 2011 09:50 WniO wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2011 09:12 Elzar wrote:
On June 08 2011 04:45 iCanada wrote:
On June 08 2011 04:42 zakmaa wrote:
I've some friends who watched it and described it as being "weird." Honestly, I don't think it's all that fucked up. The concept of the movie seems somewhat interesting, maybe I'll watch it. Imo it doesn't seem to be near as bad as any of the Saw films.



You mean they rape a girl with a barbed wire dildo in Saw?

I must have missed those scenes.


No you were just watching the wrong movie.
Check out Seven, where Kevin Spacey forced this one guy to fuck a hooker with a strapon knife.
Maybe someone should inform the BBFC to ban this movie.


they talked about that scene they didnt show it or glorify it


What about Antichrist where the woman jerks off her husband and he comes blood?
Sure, they dont glorify it, but are they doing this in Human Centipede II?

I mean the guy in this movie is clearly one sick bastard, it's not like they portray him as an hero or am i wrong there?

On June 08 2011 11:49 Gummy wrote:
This isn't censorship. This is consumer protection. Protecting people from wasting their mone yon watching what is clearly a ridiculous and disgusting movie.


Because we're all dumb and can't decide for ourselfs what we spend our money on.
Revolt
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
United States288 Posts
June 08 2011 07:47 GMT
#313
imo, im pretty sure the people who came up with the idea to create this movie had this kind of controversy in mind.

why not ban it? youre giving them what they wanted =)
A depth of pure blue just to probe curiosity.
Elzar
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany204 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-08 07:51:50
June 08 2011 07:51 GMT
#314
On June 08 2011 16:47 Revolt wrote:
imo, im pretty sure the people who came up with the idea to create this movie had this kind of controversy in mind.

why not ban it? youre giving them what they wanted =)


Of course they had this kind of controversy in mind, but they certainly didnt want the movie to get banned. You can't earn money with movies that are banned everywhere.
EmeraldSparks
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States1451 Posts
June 08 2011 07:51 GMT
#315
On June 08 2011 16:39 Elzar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2011 09:50 WniO wrote:
On June 08 2011 09:12 Elzar wrote:
On June 08 2011 04:45 iCanada wrote:
On June 08 2011 04:42 zakmaa wrote:
I've some friends who watched it and described it as being "weird." Honestly, I don't think it's all that fucked up. The concept of the movie seems somewhat interesting, maybe I'll watch it. Imo it doesn't seem to be near as bad as any of the Saw films.



You mean they rape a girl with a barbed wire dildo in Saw?

I must have missed those scenes.


No you were just watching the wrong movie.
Check out Seven, where Kevin Spacey forced this one guy to fuck a hooker with a strapon knife.
Maybe someone should inform the BBFC to ban this movie.


they talked about that scene they didnt show it or glorify it


What about Antichrist where the woman jerks off her husband and he comes blood?
Sure, they dont glorify it, but are they doing this in Human Centipede II?

I mean the guy in this movie is clearly one sick bastard, it's not like they portray him as an hero or am i wrong there?

Show nested quote +
On June 08 2011 11:49 Gummy wrote:
This isn't censorship. This is consumer protection. Protecting people from wasting their mone yon watching what is clearly a ridiculous and disgusting movie.


Because we're all dumb and can't decide for ourselfs what we spend our money on.

Anybody who paid money to watch a line of people shit in each other's mouths is probably too dumb to decide what to spend their money on.
But why?
Elzar
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany204 Posts
June 08 2011 07:56 GMT
#316
On June 08 2011 16:51 EmeraldSparks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2011 16:39 Elzar wrote:
On June 08 2011 09:50 WniO wrote:
On June 08 2011 09:12 Elzar wrote:
On June 08 2011 04:45 iCanada wrote:
On June 08 2011 04:42 zakmaa wrote:
I've some friends who watched it and described it as being "weird." Honestly, I don't think it's all that fucked up. The concept of the movie seems somewhat interesting, maybe I'll watch it. Imo it doesn't seem to be near as bad as any of the Saw films.



You mean they rape a girl with a barbed wire dildo in Saw?

I must have missed those scenes.


No you were just watching the wrong movie.
Check out Seven, where Kevin Spacey forced this one guy to fuck a hooker with a strapon knife.
Maybe someone should inform the BBFC to ban this movie.


they talked about that scene they didnt show it or glorify it


What about Antichrist where the woman jerks off her husband and he comes blood?
Sure, they dont glorify it, but are they doing this in Human Centipede II?

I mean the guy in this movie is clearly one sick bastard, it's not like they portray him as an hero or am i wrong there?

On June 08 2011 11:49 Gummy wrote:
This isn't censorship. This is consumer protection. Protecting people from wasting their mone yon watching what is clearly a ridiculous and disgusting movie.


Because we're all dumb and can't decide for ourselfs what we spend our money on.

Anybody who paid money to watch a line of people shit in each other's mouths is probably too dumb to decide what to spend their money on.


Oh so you must be the guy who decides what people should like.
Pleased to meet you.

Am i allowed to smoke a cigarette now or is that in bad taste because it's unhealthy?
Oh wait, i'm an adult so i can do whatever the fuck i want without being patronized like a child. =)
VIB
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Brazil3567 Posts
June 08 2011 08:06 GMT
#317
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banned_films

Interesting list of banned movies. China banned any movies with time travel lol
Great people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people.
zobz
Profile Joined November 2005
Canada2175 Posts
June 08 2011 08:46 GMT
#318
On June 08 2011 16:51 EmeraldSparks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2011 16:39 Elzar wrote:
On June 08 2011 09:50 WniO wrote:
On June 08 2011 09:12 Elzar wrote:
On June 08 2011 04:45 iCanada wrote:
On June 08 2011 04:42 zakmaa wrote:
I've some friends who watched it and described it as being "weird." Honestly, I don't think it's all that fucked up. The concept of the movie seems somewhat interesting, maybe I'll watch it. Imo it doesn't seem to be near as bad as any of the Saw films.



You mean they rape a girl with a barbed wire dildo in Saw?

I must have missed those scenes.


No you were just watching the wrong movie.
Check out Seven, where Kevin Spacey forced this one guy to fuck a hooker with a strapon knife.
Maybe someone should inform the BBFC to ban this movie.


they talked about that scene they didnt show it or glorify it


What about Antichrist where the woman jerks off her husband and he comes blood?
Sure, they dont glorify it, but are they doing this in Human Centipede II?

I mean the guy in this movie is clearly one sick bastard, it's not like they portray him as an hero or am i wrong there?

On June 08 2011 11:49 Gummy wrote:
This isn't censorship. This is consumer protection. Protecting people from wasting their mone yon watching what is clearly a ridiculous and disgusting movie.


Because we're all dumb and can't decide for ourselfs what we spend our money on.

Anybody who paid money to watch a line of people shit in each other's mouths is probably too dumb to decide what to spend their money on.

They should pay for their stupidity. The alternative is that someone else pays to protect them from the results of their own stupidity, and often without the consent of either the payer or the 'benefactor'.
"That's not gonna be good for business." "That's not gonna be good for anybody."
Elzar
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany204 Posts
June 08 2011 08:51 GMT
#319
What would be the results of their own "stupidity"?
EmeraldSparks
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States1451 Posts
June 08 2011 08:52 GMT
#320
On June 08 2011 16:56 Elzar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2011 16:51 EmeraldSparks wrote:
On June 08 2011 16:39 Elzar wrote:
On June 08 2011 09:50 WniO wrote:
On June 08 2011 09:12 Elzar wrote:
On June 08 2011 04:45 iCanada wrote:
On June 08 2011 04:42 zakmaa wrote:
I've some friends who watched it and described it as being "weird." Honestly, I don't think it's all that fucked up. The concept of the movie seems somewhat interesting, maybe I'll watch it. Imo it doesn't seem to be near as bad as any of the Saw films.



You mean they rape a girl with a barbed wire dildo in Saw?

I must have missed those scenes.


No you were just watching the wrong movie.
Check out Seven, where Kevin Spacey forced this one guy to fuck a hooker with a strapon knife.
Maybe someone should inform the BBFC to ban this movie.


they talked about that scene they didnt show it or glorify it


What about Antichrist where the woman jerks off her husband and he comes blood?
Sure, they dont glorify it, but are they doing this in Human Centipede II?

I mean the guy in this movie is clearly one sick bastard, it's not like they portray him as an hero or am i wrong there?

On June 08 2011 11:49 Gummy wrote:
This isn't censorship. This is consumer protection. Protecting people from wasting their mone yon watching what is clearly a ridiculous and disgusting movie.


Because we're all dumb and can't decide for ourselfs what we spend our money on.

Anybody who paid money to watch a line of people shit in each other's mouths is probably too dumb to decide what to spend their money on.


Oh so you must be the guy who decides what people should like. Pleased to meet you.

Am i allowed to smoke a cigarette now or is that in bad taste because it's unhealthy?
Oh wait, i'm an adult so i can do whatever the fuck i want without being patronized like a child. =)

Yep, I'm the guy, and I decided that a movie whose premise is having a persons mouth sewn to another persons ass so that they're forced to eat their shit eternally is a movie that people shouldn't like.
But why?
Prev 1 14 15 16 17 18 31 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 30m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 169
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 5659
Pusan 283
ProTech131
ToSsGirL 127
Aegong 105
Backho 88
yabsab 52
910 42
JulyZerg 35
soO 34
[ Show more ]
SilentControl 16
Icarus 13
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm146
League of Legends
JimRising 702
Counter-Strike
summit1g7598
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King192
Other Games
C9.Mang0528
WinterStarcraft359
Trikslyr17
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick792
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream284
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH101
• practicex 36
• Kozan
• Migwel
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 42
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1251
• Lourlo888
• Stunt421
Other Games
• Scarra1546
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
3h 30m
KCM Race Survival
3h 30m
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
4h 30m
Gerald vs herO
Clem vs Cure
ByuN vs Solar
Rogue vs MaxPax
ShoWTimE vs TBD
OSC
8h 30m
CranKy Ducklings
17h 30m
Escore
1d 3h
RSL Revival
1d 10h
Replay Cast
1d 17h
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
2 days
Universe Titan Cup
2 days
Rogue vs Percival
[ Show More ]
Ladder Legends
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
BSL
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
3 days
Ladder Legends
3 days
BSL
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Soma vs hero
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Leta vs YSC
Replay Cast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-04-22
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W4
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.