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Iraq & Syrian Civil Wars - Page 412

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Please guys, stay on topic.

This thread is about the situation in Iraq and Syria.
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5299 Posts
April 13 2018 11:17 GMT
#8221
i stopped following this a while back but they(the parties) seem to be seem to be stuck in the same spot: trying to turn their demands from the failed Geneva talks into realities and Douma/Ghouta seem to some something Assad should've not touched.

the most recent squabble was in Deir ez Zor which ended in a fucked up manner; i don't know if it was posted here but with the recent admission of CIA dir. Mike Pompeo
“A handful of weeks ago, the Russians met their match. A couple hundred Russians were killed,” Pompeo said.
referring to the Deir ez Zor, encounter things like:
The first post on Russian social network VKontakte came from the former Donetsk People’s Republic leader, Igor Girkin (aka Strelkov).

Girkin, citing his sources familiar with the situation, wrote that two divisions of Russian military were destroyed by American strikes.

“Under the guise of the Syrians whose losses are estimated to be as many as 100 individuals, two tactical divisions of Wagner were attacked by American aircraft. One [division] was almost completely destroyed; the second was totaled. Losses, in all likelihood, are very close to this figure [100 killed]," Girkin wrote.

In a later post, Girkin clarified that the 5th Assault Squad, armor division and an artillery unit were destroyed during the coalition strike.

Later, Mark Feygin, a prominent Russian lawyer, wrote on Twitter:

“A person who is in contact with Wagner people said that the number PMCs contractors killed in the Euphrates valley in Syria reached 215 people. They approached the Kurdish strongholds, positioned the artillery, started shooting and were immediately covered by American fire.”

Russian blogger El Murid, Anatoly Nesmiyan, also posted a letter from a soldier who was among the military that came under American fire in Deir ez Zor province, calling it a “meat grinder”.

“I will describe what happened, “the letter reads. “We engaged in a fight on the night of February 7-8. We were completely totaled. I had 33 fighters and 11 others for reinforcement plus 3 units of armor including a tank. Everything was burned down, not even a tank frame was left. We had to walk out of this “meat grinder”. Only 17 survived, the others were killed. And now, I only have 9 people left. The others were wounded and taken to the hospital. The artillery division suffered heavy losses too. They were “wiped out” by assault drones in the first 30 minutes. That was a serious fight with the American Special Forces. We were also attacked by their helicopters. We had no chances against them [the Americans]. We were only running and hiding, from one hole to another, from one house to another,” writes the soldier.

“We got into a close contact with their infantry and they moved back. Then the [American] choppers started to attack and this entire “meat grinder” began,” the mercenary summed up.
should get a lot more attention/consideration.
lines were already crossed but people choose to ignore them(unimaginable) or refused to believe them(to fucked up).

overall, some precedent based on which shit can hit the fan already exists.
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22131 Posts
April 13 2018 11:25 GMT
#8222
Proxy from side A engages proxy from side B. B helps with a strike.
The same stuff would happen if the Kurds attack Assad's forces. A Russian strike landing on their head.

Why should this get more attention?
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5299 Posts
April 13 2018 11:35 GMT
#8223
what if there's something they both want?; and i'm not talking about proxies here.

also, i don't think you read that: they killed russians, more than 200 of them. sure, contractors, but russians still.
that goes beyond proxy on proxy.
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22131 Posts
April 13 2018 11:39 GMT
#8224
On April 13 2018 20:35 xM(Z wrote:
what if there's something they both want?; and i'm not talking about proxies here.

also, i don't think you read that: they killed russians, more than 200 of them. sure, contractors, but russians still.
that goes beyond proxy on proxy.
There is a reason they send PMC's and not the army.
They are proxies.
This is not he first time the US and Russia have done this dance.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5299 Posts
April 13 2018 12:02 GMT
#8225
i guess i see a difference between killing a couple of experts that were on the ground with Assad's forces and wiping a couple hundred russians of the map.
i mean, it has to weigh heavier on any future decisions.
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-13 21:48:04
April 13 2018 12:17 GMT
#8226
xmZ, they are proxies. They were sent precisely so that if they die, the Kremlin can claim that the Russian Army aren't in Syria to their domestic population. They are also sent to achieve Kremlin aims in the vague hope that because they are Kremlin directed, the Syrian Kurdish allies would not help them. Basically the Kremlin sent those men to their deaths, just to see if the Americans will kill them or not to see if the Americans kill them or not. A dangerous game to be playing, but it isn't the one who is making the decisions putting himself in harms way. You can't just go ahead and then claim that they aren't proxies because they are Russians. They are Russians in nationality, but they are proxies nonetheless.

So you got to choose. Either they are private military contractors acting as proxies, who happened to attack into American allied territory, or they are the Russian army, who just happened to attack into American Allied territory. But it's pretty obvious from the Russian response that the Kremlin just see them as expendable lives in either case.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22131 Posts
April 13 2018 12:18 GMT
#8227
On April 13 2018 21:02 xM(Z wrote:
i guess i see a difference between killing a couple of experts that were on the ground with Assad's forces and wiping a couple hundred russians of the map.
i mean, it has to weigh heavier on any future decisions.
It might, and Russia might have hoped using Russians would give the US some pause but as I said. They are well versed in this dance. Using mercenaries instead of actual army units is not a coincidence.
They know they can write off the mercs without losing face. If those had been Russian army units Russia would have been forced into reacting to 'save face'.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5299 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-13 16:52:33
April 13 2018 16:52 GMT
#8228
come on men; the russians can't just shit mercs whenever they need to. sure they're used as proxy but their value has to be above syrians&allies, kurds or turks for that matter for the russians.

besides, that kind of stuff ruins morale; mercs or not, they're not that expendable as you make them out to be.
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22131 Posts
April 13 2018 16:56 GMT
#8229
On April 14 2018 01:52 xM(Z wrote:
come on men; the russians can't just shit mercs whenever they need to. sure they're used as proxy but their value has to be above syrians&allies, kurds or turks for that matter for the russians.

besides, that kind of stuff ruins morale; mercs or not, they're not that expendable as you make them out to be.

Obviously they are or they wouldn't have been send on a mission that the US would react this violently to.

Look, its sounds callous. And it is. But that this is how the world works, and there is not a thing you or me can do about it.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
mahrgell
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Germany3943 Posts
April 13 2018 21:07 GMT
#8230
Russia has now finally presented their version of who was behind the chlorine attack: It was Great Britain.

Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 13 2018 21:18 GMT
#8231
Russia really jumped the shark on this one. They were doing find with the unchecked skepticism. But apparently someone felt the need to shoot the motherfucking moon.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Sbrubbles
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil5776 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-13 21:31:20
April 13 2018 21:29 GMT
#8232
To be clear, from what I'm reading their current stance isn't that the UK was behind the chlorine attack, but that the attack never happened (aka, it was fake) and that this was staged by the UK.
Bora Pain minha porra!
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 13 2018 21:32 GMT
#8233
Like US and the moon landing? /s Russia vetoed the UN investigation of the attack, so this is a bold play, Cotton. Let see if it works out for them.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
April 14 2018 01:24 GMT
#8234
Bombings are underway.
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4393 Posts
April 14 2018 01:28 GMT
#8235
On April 14 2018 06:32 Plansix wrote:
Like US and the moon landing? /s Russia vetoed the UN investigation of the attack, so this is a bold play, Cotton. Let see if it works out for them.

No shame in vetoing a vote in a kangaroo court.

Treating the claim that Assad is responsible for the gas attack more seriously than the claim it was a staged event.Linking it to the moon landings when the Assad theory has zero proof.Both theories are conspiracy theories, you realise this yes?

Can you even admit how ironic some of your recent posts here have been?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
plasmidghost
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Belgium16168 Posts
April 14 2018 01:30 GMT
#8236
Didn't Assad say after last year's bombings that if the US bombed Syria again, he would launch missiles into Israel?
Yugoslavia will always live on in my heart
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 14 2018 01:48 GMT
#8237
On April 14 2018 10:30 plasmidghost wrote:
Didn't Assad say after last year's bombings that if the US bombed Syria again, he would launch missiles into Israel?

He is welcome to try. I'm sure Israel will respond with reasonable restraint.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
April 14 2018 01:53 GMT
#8238
On April 14 2018 10:30 plasmidghost wrote:
Didn't Assad say after last year's bombings that if the US bombed Syria again, he would launch missiles into Israel?

He said that about Israel doing the bombings.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
April 14 2018 02:11 GMT
#8239
Looks like it's actual airstrikes not just missiles? Damascus hit reportedly. A lot larger response than I expected.... The jets will get fired on by SAMs surely?
Neosteel Enthusiast
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-14 02:28:03
April 14 2018 02:27 GMT
#8240
^ I believe they are airstrikes as you mentioned.

It's nice to see that the US and its allies are playing judge, jury and executioner here as usual and no one seems to bat an eye considering that it's incredibly stupid for Assad and Syria to even try something like a chemical attack when they've already claimed victory against the terrorists.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
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