On September 10 2013 23:27 forestry wrote: Lord of Lies promised to close that one prison where the inmates experience simulated drowning. He also claimed to know more about Judaism than any other president.Source
It was a silly statement, but he said it as part of an ass-kissing campaign when he being attacked before the elections for being insufficiently pro-Israel. Everyone pressured by that lobby ends up making absurd brown-nosing statements.
On September 10 2013 23:27 forestry wrote: Lord of Lies promised to close that one prison where the inmates experience simulated drowning. He also claimed to know more about Judaism than any other president.Source
http://www-youtube.com/watch?v=GEGMzQjd-dc Looks like the Free Syrian Army are not using their explosives right. One Arab was standing right behind the guy with the RPG.
Al Jazeera correspondent was rushed out of Syria via Turkey, when it was discovered she was raped by the commander of Al-Nusra Front in Aleppo. She was transferred to Qatar later, she is emotionally in shock.
On September 10 2013 22:57 Derez wrote: What more do you want?
an un investigation report for starters. unless you are willing to blindly swallow what is fed to you by various propaganda outlets.
And what do you think it will say other than 'chemical weapons were used'. Their mandate does not cover investigating who did it, so it will not really add anything to the debate. Maybe they'll identify the specific variant of the compound, but what is that going to prove?
On September 10 2013 23:27 forestry wrote: Lord of Lies promised to close that one prison where the inmates experience simulated drowning. He also claimed to know more about Judaism than any other president.Source
http://www-youtube.com/watch?v=GEGMzQjd-dc Looks like the Free Syrian Army are not using their explosives right. One Arab was standing right behind the guy with the RPG.
Al Jazeera correspondent was rushed out of Syria via Turkey, when it was discovered she was raped by the commander of Al-Nusra Front in Aleppo. She was transferred to Qatar later, she is emotionally in shock.
On September 10 2013 22:57 Derez wrote: What more do you want?
an un investigation report for starters. unless you are willing to blindly swallow what is fed to you by various propaganda outlets.
And what do you think it will say other than 'chemical weapons were used'. Their mandate does not cover investigating who did it, so it will not really add anything to the debate. Maybe they'll identify the specific variant of the compound, but what is that going to prove?
i'm not sure what it will say, which is why i am waiting for it. at least it will provide a starting point for you to make up your mind that is somewhat trustworthy.
when you swallow empty allegations as fact you only look like an idiot when you start setting demands for the un investigation.
maybe if i stamp my spoilered tinfoilers with a cia stamp you will start accepting it as truth.
Syrian Government Forces Responsibility for the Attacks The evidence examined by Human Rights Watch strongly suggests that the August 21 chemical weapon attacks on Eastern and Western Ghouta were carried out by government forces. Our basis for this finding is:
• The large-scale nature of the attacks, involving at least a dozen surface-to-surface rockets affecting two different neighborhoods in Damascus countryside situated 16 kilometers apart, and surrounded by major Syrian government military positions.
• One of the types of rockets used in the attack, the 330mm rocket system – likely Syrian produced, which appear to be have been used in a number of alleged chemical weapon attacks, has been filmed in at least two instances in the hands of government forces. The second type of rocket, the Soviet-produced 140mm rocket, which can carry Sarin, is listed as a weapon known to be in Syrian government weapon stocks. Both rockets have never been reported to be in the possession of the opposition. Nor is there any footage or other evidence that the armed opposition has the vehicle-mounted launchers needed to fire these rockets.
• The August 21 attacks were a sophisticated military attack, requiring large amounts of nerve agent (each 330mm warhead is estimated to contain between 50 and 60 liters of agent), specialized procedures to load the warheads with the nerve agent, and specialized launchers to launch the rockets.
It is just like throwing shit against a wall to see if it sticks in. Except the last point.
Syrian Government Forces Responsibility for the Attacks The evidence examined by Human Rights Watch strongly suggests that the August 21 chemical weapon attacks on Eastern and Western Ghouta were carried out by government forces. Our basis for this finding is:
• The large-scale nature of the attacks, involving at least a dozen surface-to-surface rockets affecting two different neighborhoods in Damascus countryside situated 16 kilometers apart, and surrounded by major Syrian government military positions.
• One of the types of rockets used in the attack, the 330mm rocket system – likely Syrian produced, which appear to be have been used in a number of alleged chemical weapon attacks, has been filmed in at least two instances in the hands of government forces. The second type of rocket, the Soviet-produced 140mm rocket, which can carry Sarin, is listed as a weapon known to be in Syrian government weapon stocks. Both rockets have never been reported to be in the possession of the opposition. Nor is there any footage or other evidence that the armed opposition has the vehicle-mounted launchers needed to fire these rockets.
• The August 21 attacks were a sophisticated military attack, requiring large amounts of nerve agent (each 330mm warhead is estimated to contain between 50 and 60 liters of agent), specialized procedures to load the warheads with the nerve agent, and specialized launchers to launch the rockets.
It is just like throwing shit against a wall to see if it sticks in. Except the last point.
HRW have just made a public declaration of their conclusions. If you believe them or not is up to you.
I think you should have quoted this section
Human Rights Watch has investigated alternative claims that opposition forces themselves were responsible for the August 21 attacks, and has found such claims lacking in credibility and inconsistent with the evidence found at the scene.
and this section
Based on the available evidence, Human Rights Watch finds that Syrian government forces were almost certainly responsible for the August 21 attacks,
Syrian Government Forces Responsibility for the Attacks The evidence examined by Human Rights Watch strongly suggests that the August 21 chemical weapon attacks on Eastern and Western Ghouta were carried out by government forces. Our basis for this finding is:
• The large-scale nature of the attacks, involving at least a dozen surface-to-surface rockets affecting two different neighborhoods in Damascus countryside situated 16 kilometers apart, and surrounded by major Syrian government military positions.
• One of the types of rockets used in the attack, the 330mm rocket system – likely Syrian produced, which appear to be have been used in a number of alleged chemical weapon attacks, has been filmed in at least two instances in the hands of government forces. The second type of rocket, the Soviet-produced 140mm rocket, which can carry Sarin, is listed as a weapon known to be in Syrian government weapon stocks. Both rockets have never been reported to be in the possession of the opposition. Nor is there any footage or other evidence that the armed opposition has the vehicle-mounted launchers needed to fire these rockets.
• The August 21 attacks were a sophisticated military attack, requiring large amounts of nerve agent (each 330mm warhead is estimated to contain between 50 and 60 liters of agent), specialized procedures to load the warheads with the nerve agent, and specialized launchers to launch the rockets.
It is just like throwing shit against a wall to see if it sticks in. Except the last point.
HRW have just made a public declaration of their conclusions. If you believe them or not is up to you.
Human Rights Watch has investigated alternative claims that opposition forces themselves were responsible for the August 21 attacks, and has found such claims lacking in credibility and inconsistent with the evidence found at the scene.
The evidence concerning the type of rockets and launchers used in these attacks strongly suggests that these are weapon systems known and documented to be only in the possession of, and used by, Syrian government armed forces. Human Rights Watch and arms experts monitoring the use of weaponry in Syria have not documented Syrian opposition forces to be in the possession of the 140mm and 330mm rockets used in the attack, or their associated launchers.
Without physical access to Eastern and Western Ghouta, Human Rights Watch interviewed by Skype from August 22 to September 6 more than 10 witnesses and survivors of the August 21 attacks, and 3 doctors who responded to the attacks. Human Rights Watch also reviewed available video and photo footage from the scene of the attacks, including high-resolution images obtained directly from a source who photographed and measured the rocket components found in the Eastern Ghouta attack, and conducted a detailed analysis of the weapon remnants captured in such footage.
In its investigation, Human Rights Watch was assisted by arms experts including Nic Jenzen-Jones, author of “The Rogue Adventurer”,2 as well as the independent investigation conducted by Eliot Higgins of the “Brown Moses” blog, who collected and analyzed photos and videos from the attacks.3
BREAKING Russia opposed to UN resolution on Syria: French foreign minister
from AFP feed.
The Russian objection to a new UN resolution is cued to any endorsement of the use of force to back up the resolution, ambassador Alexandre Orlov told French radio TRL, Reuters reports. It appears that Moscow is asking for a nonbinding – and relatively flimsy - resolution.
Orlov did say there "needs to be a resolution":
"There first needs to be a resolution that puts Syria's chemical weapons under international control, which Syria has already accepted, and if there is something lacking we can come back to the U.N. Security council to negotiate a new resolution," Alexandre Orlov told French radio RTL.
Orlov said he had doubts over France's intentions by calling for a Chapter VII resolution of the U.N. charter which could enable the use of force.
On September 11 2013 02:20 zezamer wrote: Photo of a rocket part that could have been used to carry sarin = government used this rocket to deliver sarin?
Ten thousand people with a stake and a opinion. I thought Germany said it 'was Assad, or was that wasn't' Who's on first?
Syrian President Bashar Assad has repeatedly rejected requests from his field commanders for approval to use chemical weapons, according to a report this weekend in a German newspaper.
The report in Bild am Sonntag, which is a widely read and influential national Sunday newspaper, reported that the head of the German Foreign Intelligence agency, Gerhard Schindler, last week told a select group of German lawmakers that intercepted communications had convinced German intelligence officials that Assad did not order or approve what is believed to be a sarin gas attack on Aug. 21 that killed hundreds of people in Damascus’ eastern suburbs.
The Obama administration has blamed the attack on Assad. The evidence against Assad was described over the weekend as common sense by White House Chief of Staff Denis McDonough on CNN’s "State of the Union."
“The material was used in the eastern suburbs of Damascus that have been controlled by the opposition for some time,” he said. “It was delivered by rockets, rockets that we know the Assad regime has, and we have no indication that the opposition has.”
Russia has questioned that logic, announcing last week that in July it filed a 100-page long “technical and scientific” report on an alleged March 19 chemical weapons attack on a suburb of Aleppo that it says implicates rebel fighters.
The story has been for quite a while now that Maher, Bashir's brother, is the one that decided to use the chemical weapons as far as I'm aware. Germans have sigint because of their participation in the UN mission in lebanon, other intercepted messages seem to confirm what they're saying. US sigint intercepted whats in the link down there but you have to have a FP subscription to read I think. Basicly they intercepted calls between the ministry of defense and chemical unit demanding to know why they used chemical weapons. German, british, french and american intelligence all concurred they were Assad's troops that carried out the strikes.
And from thereon out the logic goes like this: Assad is the head of his military, anything they do is his responsibility. So other governments end up blaming Assad.
PARIS (Reuters) - Russia is not keen at this stage for a binding U.N. Security Council resolution that would provide a framework to control Syria's chemical weapons' stocks, France's foreign minister said after talks with his Russian counterpart on Tuesday.
"As I understood, the Russians at this stage were not necessarily enthusiastic, and I'm using euphemism, to put all that into the framework of a U.N. binding resolution," Laurent Fabius told French lawmakers after a telephone conversation with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov.
So... let's add on to sekritzzz's list:
The Obama administration is insanely indecisive and they keep digging themselves a bigger hole. The US has lost some serious, serious credibility, power, influence across the board in the world from allies and enemies alike during the past couple years.
To sum up events:
1. Obama says Syria chemicals weapons red line 2. CW used multiple times, but apparently August 21 is the one that really crossed the red line. 3. US, UK, France make it seem like a strike is about to happen any second. 4. US, France ready for strikes, UK asks parliament. 5. UK parliament rejects intervention. 6. Obama backtracks and says he will ask congress for approval for unknown reason even though he said he was ready to strike and didn't need their approval 7. Obama's administration war rhetoric goes into full gear. 8. John Kerry says they won't strike Syria if they hand over their chemical weapons, most likely answering a reporters question which he didn't think much of. 9. Russian brilliantly puts him on the spot and says it will launch initiative to get Al-Assad to agree to it. 10. Syria agrees, knowing full well it is almost impossible for the Obama administration to follow through on the offer. 11. White House/ Susan rice go into damage control and say Kerry's remarks were rhetoric not an actual proposal. 12 Obama says he will consider a diplomatic solution and is considering russia's proposal.
13. The Obama Administration, having been thoroughly embarrassed by itself and Vladimir Putin, desperately latches on to Kerry's non-proposal proposal like a sailor grabbing a piece of wreckage to save whatever (not much) face they have left. 14. Lucy Putin, having gotten what he wanted, namely making the American president and government look like a bunch of dumb-dumbs, pulls the football out and laughs as Charlie Obama falls on his ass.
I'm so glad we didn't elect that dumbass Mitt Romney with his stupid outdated view of Russia.
i don't know what problems people in here seem to have with B.Obama but for me he is the man because he didn't cave in to lobbyists pressure groups/warmongering; unlike Bush for ex.
On September 11 2013 06:17 xM(Z wrote: i don't know what problems people in here seem to have with B.Obama but for me he is the man because he didn't cave in to lobbyists pressure groups/warmongering; unlike Bush for ex.
I guess that's one way to see it... if you're completely blind. President Obama was leading the charge for the attack and he couldn't drum up any support. Consequently, as I said, since he is absolutely unwilling to do anything which he can be blamed for, he is in the process of backing down. Kerry's comment was not a blunder; it wasn't even unintentional.
On September 11 2013 02:20 zezamer wrote: Photo of a rocket part that could have been used to carry sarin = government used this rocket to deliver sarin?
Ten thousand people with a stake and a opinion. I thought Germany said it 'was Assad, or was that wasn't' Who's on first?
Syrian President Bashar Assad has repeatedly rejected requests from his field commanders for approval to use chemical weapons, according to a report this weekend in a German newspaper.
The report in Bild am Sonntag, which is a widely read and influential national Sunday newspaper, reported that the head of the German Foreign Intelligence agency, Gerhard Schindler, last week told a select group of German lawmakers that intercepted communications had convinced German intelligence officials that Assad did not order or approve what is believed to be a sarin gas attack on Aug. 21 that killed hundreds of people in Damascus’ eastern suburbs.
The Obama administration has blamed the attack on Assad. The evidence against Assad was described over the weekend as common sense by White House Chief of Staff Denis McDonough on CNN’s "State of the Union."
“The material was used in the eastern suburbs of Damascus that have been controlled by the opposition for some time,” he said. “It was delivered by rockets, rockets that we know the Assad regime has, and we have no indication that the opposition has.”
Russia has questioned that logic, announcing last week that in July it filed a 100-page long “technical and scientific” report on an alleged March 19 chemical weapons attack on a suburb of Aleppo that it says implicates rebel fighters.
This whole debate is stupid even if Syria launched Gas. Somehow it's okay to use indiscriminate cluster bombs and artillery but not chemicals? Never mind the fact Syria did not sign to not use CBW and UN cant get a resolution passed against Syria making any action against Syria illegal not Syiras use of CBW. Not to mention US has, does and certainly would use CBW if their regime was threatened.
EPT
