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Longshank
1648 Posts
Assange is facing accusations of rape, sexual molestation and illegal use of force stemming from separate incidents in August in Stockholm. He could be sentenced to two years in prison if convicted. He has not been charged with a crime. Doesn't sound like a broken condom to me. | ||
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Half
United States2554 Posts
Okay, let me see if I'm getting the chain of events here correctly: Assange was arrested and imprisoned in London despite having committed no crime in the UK for allegations made in Sweden despite not being charged with any actual crimes and now Swedish authorities despite only wanting him for questioning are appealing a completely different government's decision to grant him bail despite him not actually being on trial for any crimes in that country. Okay, am I living in the Twilight Zone now? Does this make sense to anyone else? Is my mind collapsing in on itself? Kafka probably feels pretty vindicated right now :/. | ||
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VIB
Brazil3567 Posts
On December 16 2010 04:39 Longshank wrote: It's not broken condom. It's sex without condom at all. He made sex with condom at night, then they made sex again at morning without a condom. According to the Swedish prosecutor, that can be defined as "rape".Doesn't sound like a broken condom to me. Whether it was consensual or not, it's just one word vs another. The fact that is registered tho. Is that she paid him breakfast after sex and even bought his train ticket later with cash because Assange didn't want to use credit card so he wouldn't be tracked. | ||
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AP0LL0
United States9 Posts
BUT, coming from a military family, IF he releases the other stored docs containing deployment schedules, patrol routes, embedded clandestine agents, or any other OPSEC material, he WILL have blood on his hands, and that's when I support prosecution. | ||
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D10
Brazil3409 Posts
On December 16 2010 05:19 AP0LL0 wrote: I don't mind that he released all those foreign policy docs, really, I dont. BUT, coming from a military family, IF he releases the other stored docs containing deployment schedules, patrol routes, embedded clandestine agents, or any other OPSEC material, he WILL have blood on his hands, and that's when I support prosecution. The only people with blood on their hands are the one ordering wars and killings | ||
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Danjoh
Sweden405 Posts
On December 16 2010 05:10 VIB wrote: It's not broken condom. It's sex without condom at all. He made sex with condom at night, then they made sex again at morning without a condom. According to the Swedish prosecutor, that can be defined as "rape". Whether it was consensual or not, it's just one word vs another. The fact that is registered tho. Is that she paid him breakfast after sex and even bought his train ticket later with cash because Assange didn't want to use credit card so he wouldn't be tracked. Where did you read that if I might ask? Never heard that version before and I've been trying to follow it as good as I can. Original rape claims was dismissed less than 12 hours after them beeing announced, to wich they changed to sexual harassment, wich they didn't have proof for iether, so they changed it to harassment, wich kinda died off. But now everyone is suddenly talking about rape again. :S But, to quote the girls lawyer in aftonbladet: "It can be very hard for a person to know what a sexual assault is. Women who are assaulted don't always define it that way. - It is a big problem in our society and it can be hard to know what happened unless you're a lawyer." + Show Spoiler [Swedish article] + http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article8244615.ab Claes Borgström säger att det ibland kan vara svårt för en person att avgöra vad som är ett sexuellt övergrepp. – Kvinnor som utsätts för övergrepp definierar det inte alltid på det viset. Det är ett stort problem i vårt samhälle och det kan vara svårt att bedöma vad som hänt om man inte är jurist. Paraphrased: unless you're a lawyer you don't know yourself if you're having consensual sex or if you're getting tricked into thinking it's consensual. That same article is published after he was arrested, and says he's wanted for STD testing, and questioning. Nothing about rape. | ||
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VIB
Brazil3567 Posts
On December 16 2010 07:24 Danjoh wrote: "rape" is just a word being thrown around. What it actually means is something else. There are indeed many reporters questioning what the prosecutors means with the word "rape". But they have indeed been using that word. As it's clear that their definition of the word isn't the same as what the average person would expect.Where did you read that if I might ask? Never heard that version before and I've been trying to follow it as good as I can. Original rape claims was dismissed less than 12 hours after them beeing announced, to wich they changed to sexual harassment, wich they didn't have proof for iether, so they changed it to harassment, wich kinda died off. But now everyone is suddenly talking about rape again. :S But, to quote the girls lawyer in aftonbladet: "It can be very hard for a person to know what a sexual assault is. Women who are assaulted don't always define it that way. - It is a big problem in our society and it can be hard to know what happened unless you're a lawyer." + Show Spoiler [Swedish article] + http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article8244615.ab Claes Borgström säger att det ibland kan vara svårt för en person att avgöra vad som är ett sexuellt övergrepp. – Kvinnor som utsätts för övergrepp definierar det inte alltid på det viset. Det är ett stort problem i vårt samhälle och det kan vara svårt att bedöma vad som hänt om man inte är jurist. Paraphrased: unless you're a lawyer you don't know yourself if you're having consensual sex or if you're getting tricked into thinking it's consensual. That same article is published after he was arrested, and says he's wanted for STD testing, and questioning. Nothing about rape. There are many articles repeating what I said in my post, this is the first one that came up on google: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1336291/Wikileaks-Julian-Assanges-2-night-stands-spark-worldwide-hunt.html | ||
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MrPello
Sweden187 Posts
Many of you seem to think that this situation is a sign that Swedish judicial system is not working. I see it the exact opposite way. When two different women, which seems to have no reason what so ever to fabricate this weird story, have reported that Assange have done things like deliberately ruined condoms and other unwanted (not known to me) actions. Maybe that is not rape, but it is some kind of sexual assault and definitively something that these two women should not get forced upon them. No matter if it is Julian Assange or some random guy this is something that should go to trial. It's bad that the Prosecutions Office have been so unclear in this matter in the beginning. And there has been lots of debate in Sweden over the laws regarding rape and sexual abuse, and rightfully so because it is crimes that are, often, hard to prove and hard to define. Which leads to abused women not getting the redress they deserve and innocent men getting accused. I think that the underlining point is that in order to get an equal for both men and women this is an issue that needs to be addressed. And we're not there yet but working on it. Note: I love wikileaks and been a member of the Pirate Party and donated money to them each month for years. And the CIA trap, extradite Assange plan is really not what I think is going on here. | ||
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MelnaisKrauklis
101 Posts
On December 17 2010 21:35 MrPello wrote: Hey guys. Just want to pitch in my point of view in this matter. Many of you seem to think that this situation is a sign that Swedish judicial system is not working. I see it the exact opposite way. When two different women, which seems to have no reason what so ever to fabricate this weird story, have reported that Assange have done things like deliberately ruined condoms and other unwanted (not known to me) actions. Maybe that is not rape, but it is some kind of sexual assault and definitively something that these two women should not get forced upon them. No matter if it is Julian Assange or some random guy this is something that should go to trial. It's bad that the Prosecutions Office have been so unclear in this matter in the beginning. And there has been lots of debate in Sweden over the laws regarding rape and sexual abuse, and rightfully so because it is crimes that are, often, hard to prove and hard to define. Which leads to abused women not getting the redress they deserve and innocent men getting accused. I think that the underlining point is that in order to get an equal for both men and women this is an issue that needs to be addressed. And we're not there yet but working on it. Note: I love wikileaks and been a member of the Pirate Party and donated money to them each month for years. And the CIA trap, extradite Assange plan is really not what I think is going on here. Just to pick your brain - does it happen often in Sweden? Two women claiming misconduct in bed and prosecuting a guy they apparently had no problems prior and after sex? | ||
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Batch
Sweden692 Posts
On December 17 2010 21:50 MelnaisKrauklis wrote: Just to pick your brain - does it happen often in Sweden? Two women claiming misconduct in bed and prosecuting a guy they apparently had no problems prior and after sex? How often is often? I don't think it happens more often in Sweden than in other counties. I think you are wrong when you say the women didn't got any problems with Assange. From what I have read it seems like the women wanted a more stable relationsship with Assange and got dissapointed when they found out they weren't the only ones Assange had slept with. Based on that they made the claim as an act of vengence. Even if I believe that the claims are false I still believe that it should be tested in court. I don't know why he has become so afraid of flying over to Sweden. Just a few months ago he praised the Swedish legal systems and talked about moving here. Now he acts like Sweden would turn him over to USA the moment he enters the country. My guess is that is more likely that GB turns him over than Sweden since they have closer relations with USA and the Swedish government would never be able to recover from the negative publicity it would give if they handed him over. If I where Assange I would have shown myself in court in Sweden, been found not guilty and continued with my life as before. | ||
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SnK-Arcbound
United States4423 Posts
On December 17 2010 21:35 MrPello wrote: Note: I love wikileaks and been a member of the Pirate Party and donated money to them each month for years. And the CIA trap, extradite Assange plan is really not what I think is going on here. Well I'm a proud member of the Ninja Party and we'll kick your ass! But seriously, the rape/molestation or whatever they want to call it are a load. Consensual sex turns into whatever, lul. | ||
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Generic SC
New Zealand179 Posts
On December 17 2010 22:33 Batch wrote: How often is often? I don't think it happens more often in Sweden than in other counties. I think you are wrong when you say the women didn't got any problems with Assange. From what I have read it seems like the women wanted a more stable relationsship with Assange and got dissapointed when they found out they weren't the only ones Assange had slept with. Based on that they made the claim as an act of vengence. Even if I believe that the claims are false I still believe that it should be tested in court. I don't know why he has become so afraid of flying over to Sweden. Just a few months ago he praised the Swedish legal systems and talked about moving here. Now he acts like Sweden would turn him over to USA the moment he enters the country. My guess is that is more likely that GB turns him over than Sweden since they have closer relations with USA and the Swedish government would never be able to recover from the negative publicity it would give if they handed him over. If I where Assange I would have shown myself in court in Sweden, been found not guilty and continued with my life as before. I read the thread and the words "How convenient" pop into my mind. Even if he is not found guilty, just how hard is it really to set him up to take an even harder fall next time. ? | ||
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MrPello
Sweden187 Posts
Generic SC: "How convenient" sure it probably is convienient for the people who wants bad shit to happen to Assange. This plays them right into their hand. But some Mata Hari shit going down in Sweden with Swedish 20somethingold women feels kinda nah to me. More probable that Assange has some issues in dealing with females. This is the real world lol, people don't need other people to mess their shit up. | ||
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
from what i can make of it, he has 14 days to make an appeal to supreme court before being shipped to sweden in custody? Wikileaks' Julian Assange loses extradition appeal http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15549985 "Although it's huddled some media attention and although some people have tried to make a lot of it, at heart it's an allegation that somebody has raped and sexually assaulted two women in Sweden," he said. the guy i was just talking to said in Sweden the law is, during sex, if the man does not use a condom then he must verbally ask the woman permission, otherwise it is rape. idk if this is true or bullshit, but thats what the guy said. dont think i read this thread, all i remember is seeing some web-archived pages (like tweets or something) of the girls conspiring to screw him over. the girls deleted their messages but they were still accessible from web archive, showing that they were conspiring to frame him. idk mod pls close or whatever if not appropriate, i thought it might be interesting to some anyway but really it is probably just another "nothing much" update idk | ||
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HellRoxYa
Sweden1614 Posts
On November 03 2011 08:46 FFGenerations wrote: just an update i heard about from what i can make of it, he has 14 days to make an appeal to supreme court before being shipped to sweden in custody? Wikileaks' Julian Assange loses extradition appeal http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15549985 "Although it's huddled some media attention and although some people have tried to make a lot of it, at heart it's an allegation that somebody has raped and sexually assaulted two women in Sweden," he said. the guy i was just talking to said in Sweden the law is, during sex, if the man does not use a condom then he must verbally ask the woman permission, otherwise it is rape. idk if this is true or bullshit, but thats what the guy said. dont think i read this thread, all i remember is seeing some web-archived pages (like tweets or something) of the girls conspiring to screw him over. the girls deleted their messages but they were still accessible from web archive, showing that they were conspiring to frame him. idk mod pls close or whatever if not appropriate, i thought it might be interesting to some anyway but really it is probably just another "nothing much" update idk It's bullshit. How would that ever be true? | ||
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fortheGG
United Kingdom1002 Posts
On November 03 2011 09:49 HellRoxYa wrote: It's bullshit. How would that ever be true? I also heard that somewhere but I'm not sure if I can believe that or not. Ashamed to live in the uk atm though. | ||
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Elroi
Sweden5617 Posts
I'm not very happy about being a Swede now either...  | ||
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Kinetik_Inferno
United States1431 Posts
On November 03 2011 10:07 Elroi wrote: I think it is true - if the girl presses charges. Our laws on rape are very very strict. But if it is really consensual no one makes a fuss of it, so you don't actually have to ask every time you have sex with some one. If you are a man like Assange though, who is hunted by the most powerful people in the world, I suggest that you are careful in Sweden. I'm not very happy about being a Swede now either... It's probably best that no one makes a fuss about it. Imagine if you were starting to get romantic with your loved one and then you have to completely shatter the ambiance by asking permission to have sex. | ||
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Egyptian_Head
South Africa508 Posts
On November 03 2011 10:07 Elroi wrote: I think it is true - if the girl presses charges. Our laws on rape are very very strict. But if it is really consensual no one makes a fuss of it, so you don't actually have to ask every time you have sex with some one. If you are a man like Assange though, who is hunted by the most powerful people in the world, I suggest that you are careful in Sweden. I'm not very happy about being a Swede now either... If it is law it is the worst law ever. I mean there is literally not way to prove that a guy did or did not ask. | ||
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merz
Sweden2760 Posts
On November 03 2011 09:49 HellRoxYa wrote: It's bullshit. How would that ever be true? This is indeed bullshit. Most hilarious thing i've ever heard in fact. This false rumour might come from the fact that it's been discussed to implent a law basically saying unless you have verbal agreement, you can't use the defense "I didn't know if she wanted to have sex or not" when on trial for rape, because you should have asked. This because the most common defense from rapists today, at least in Swedish courts when it's word vs word, is that they didn't "realise" that the girl didn't want to have sex. Implenting a Law saying you need verbal agreement might help counter that. On November 03 2011 10:15 Egyptian_Head wrote: If it is law it is the worst law ever. I mean there is literally not way to prove that a guy did or did not ask. Not true T,T | ||
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