|
On December 08 2010 01:54 Nizaris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2010 01:52 dcberkeley wrote:On December 08 2010 01:35 Krigwin wrote:
Guys, this is serious. This could be the last time we ever hear about this guy.
Next thing you know, his plane to Sweden has a mysterious accident. Maybe it gets hijacked by a terrorist. Maybe while he's in custody, he trips and falls in the shower and breaks his neck. Maybe while he's on the way to the courthouse, he stops to tie his shoes, falls and hits some bullets with his face. Maybe he just has a sudden heart attack and doctors can't explain it. Maybe one of the Interpol agents escorting this guy goes crazy and kills him, and later investigations show he was always a little overzealous and that the agency thought he had some mental issues and was already considering moving him to another position and they think maybe personal life troubles attributed to his breakdown.
A lot of people want this guy dead. A lot. Now I know we'd all like to believe the US government is a lot more competent than to blatantly murder the guy when the whole world's watching, but it's hard to have such faith in the government after some of these leaks. Plus, they're not the only players here with something to gain from his death. Political prisoners are almost always freed even in the worst of countries; Castro, Mandela, Suu Kyi. It is more dangerous to kill and make a martyr than just to put in jail where they are irrelevant. but if he is convicted of being a spy it's the death penalty so either way it doesn't look good for him.
He is charged with crimes related to sexual misconduct...
|
wow! how many times must someone say that he turned him self in for people to get it? what's the safest place in the world to be? in a prison, especially a luxurious Swedish prison. he is a smart guy. and I would assume that the US would not like to let a "terrorist" like him go to some comfortable Swedish prison.
|
On December 08 2010 01:54 Nizaris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2010 01:52 dcberkeley wrote:On December 08 2010 01:35 Krigwin wrote:
Guys, this is serious. This could be the last time we ever hear about this guy.
Next thing you know, his plane to Sweden has a mysterious accident. Maybe it gets hijacked by a terrorist. Maybe while he's in custody, he trips and falls in the shower and breaks his neck. Maybe while he's on the way to the courthouse, he stops to tie his shoes, falls and hits some bullets with his face. Maybe he just has a sudden heart attack and doctors can't explain it. Maybe one of the Interpol agents escorting this guy goes crazy and kills him, and later investigations show he was always a little overzealous and that the agency thought he had some mental issues and was already considering moving him to another position and they think maybe personal life troubles attributed to his breakdown.
A lot of people want this guy dead. A lot. Now I know we'd all like to believe the US government is a lot more competent than to blatantly murder the guy when the whole world's watching, but it's hard to have such faith in the government after some of these leaks. Plus, they're not the only players here with something to gain from his death. Political prisoners are almost always freed even in the worst of countries; Castro, Mandela, Suu Kyi. It is more dangerous to kill and make a martyr than just to put in jail where they are irrelevant. but if he is convicted of being a spy it's the death penalty so either way it doesn't look good for him.
What I am saying is that it is worse to do that. And isn't he being tried in a British court? For sexual molestation? So confused.
|
On December 08 2010 01:54 Nizaris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2010 01:52 dcberkeley wrote:On December 08 2010 01:35 Krigwin wrote:
Guys, this is serious. This could be the last time we ever hear about this guy.
Next thing you know, his plane to Sweden has a mysterious accident. Maybe it gets hijacked by a terrorist. Maybe while he's in custody, he trips and falls in the shower and breaks his neck. Maybe while he's on the way to the courthouse, he stops to tie his shoes, falls and hits some bullets with his face. Maybe he just has a sudden heart attack and doctors can't explain it. Maybe one of the Interpol agents escorting this guy goes crazy and kills him, and later investigations show he was always a little overzealous and that the agency thought he had some mental issues and was already considering moving him to another position and they think maybe personal life troubles attributed to his breakdown.
A lot of people want this guy dead. A lot. Now I know we'd all like to believe the US government is a lot more competent than to blatantly murder the guy when the whole world's watching, but it's hard to have such faith in the government after some of these leaks. Plus, they're not the only players here with something to gain from his death. Political prisoners are almost always freed even in the worst of countries; Castro, Mandela, Suu Kyi. It is more dangerous to kill and make a martyr than just to put in jail where they are irrelevant. but if he is convicted of being a spy it's the death penalty so either way it doesn't look good for him.
Assange is not an American/British citizen. Charges of treason cannot be levied against him...
|
On December 08 2010 01:13 Ceril wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Getting hold of/given illegal documents and publishing is what the free press is all about. Being able to say 'hey, this dosent look right, what is my goverment doing, I better give this to some journalists to dig in' is every citizens job, to do this anonymous to not risk being put to sleep or jailed to keep 'dirt' in the box.
It tells miles of wikileaks neutrality and belifs; releasing everything to the regular media including the 'strategic resources' document, a document that you can see faroff has nothing to do with anything, and a big chance as we see happening that supporters turn away from wikileaks for releasing this document. Should they have censored that document out of their pile and only give the parts/documents they like? No they gave everything, including things that can be used by politicans to turn the population away from wikileaks, giving politicans right 'they are terrorists'.
The two ladies in question more likely, seeing Anna Ardins 'revenge scheme' blog and the retracted twitters after etc etc was out to get a player that played them both, managed to talk them into having sex without a condom and possibly a broken condom as well. It could be a honeytrap, but more likely its two women that felt played/betrayed and wanted to get even. Hitting Assange with this at a bad time. Possibly being elevated to a honeytrap after the two women had comeforth and gotten light on them, using their story and unattachment to further another agenda to get at assange/leaks in bad light.
All in all, the free internet.
I have friends in Korea, Japan, India, Egypt, Europe, Russia and the US.
The next generation growing up now will have even more friends across the globe from the start of their lives. And you dont hurt your friends, or your friends friends.
Already in the US Id say that you now must begin self censorship as a citizen at a young age 'Will friending this guy from pakistans make me unable to get a job with the goverment in the future?' 'Will discussing wikileaks make me unfit for jobs in the future?'
All laid down by the hands of old institutions that only know how to operate in the old world, that don't want freedom and certainly not transparency; they dont see themselves as bad but they are hindering the development we all should cheer for: A more connected world where you dont label people by country or creed, were you dont have to wonder: Will my affiliation with thoose ideas land me in trouble? Will disclosing this information get me in trouble?
We will walk one of two paths, either we will retain freedom of speech and get it back to a better state and our coming generations in the west will mingle and interconnect more leading to a brighter future down the road. The second road I see is where internet is censored, were things continue as they always have, were you cant be anonymous, were goverments and old instituions by habit lay down more control to know everything about you, but critizing them lands you in trouble, this is were we are walking and this is precisely what thoose precious founding fathers knew would happen again and again if the people cannot watch and keep a goverment in reins properly. So the second road leads us to a place were the people of the free west once more learn why 'free press, freedom of speech, freedom' was such precious ideals to their fathers and their fathers fathers that they would fight and bleed for thoose rights that we today merrily give away.
Well said, sir. I have a handful of family and friends in the armed forces abroad, and I can tell you 100% that they're concerned about more than just saving American lives. They (as well as I) love what America [theoretically] stands for: freedom, liberty, protection from oppression and tyranny... and it seems like all of these core ideals have been shat on in favor of protecting a government whose job is to protect these pillars of our philosophy. IMO the rhetoric makes zero sense.
|
On December 08 2010 01:56 Whiladan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2010 01:54 Nizaris wrote:On December 08 2010 01:52 dcberkeley wrote:On December 08 2010 01:35 Krigwin wrote:
Guys, this is serious. This could be the last time we ever hear about this guy.
Next thing you know, his plane to Sweden has a mysterious accident. Maybe it gets hijacked by a terrorist. Maybe while he's in custody, he trips and falls in the shower and breaks his neck. Maybe while he's on the way to the courthouse, he stops to tie his shoes, falls and hits some bullets with his face. Maybe he just has a sudden heart attack and doctors can't explain it. Maybe one of the Interpol agents escorting this guy goes crazy and kills him, and later investigations show he was always a little overzealous and that the agency thought he had some mental issues and was already considering moving him to another position and they think maybe personal life troubles attributed to his breakdown.
A lot of people want this guy dead. A lot. Now I know we'd all like to believe the US government is a lot more competent than to blatantly murder the guy when the whole world's watching, but it's hard to have such faith in the government after some of these leaks. Plus, they're not the only players here with something to gain from his death. Political prisoners are almost always freed even in the worst of countries; Castro, Mandela, Suu Kyi. It is more dangerous to kill and make a martyr than just to put in jail where they are irrelevant. but if he is convicted of being a spy it's the death penalty so either way it doesn't look good for him. He is charged with crimes related to sexual misconduct...
until they extradite him to the US yes.
|
Hmm is it possible that he isn't a good guy, and he actually did something wrong? or Do we just assume that big bad governments are always the bad guys?
|
On December 08 2010 01:52 dcberkeley wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2010 01:35 Krigwin wrote:
Guys, this is serious. This could be the last time we ever hear about this guy.
Next thing you know, his plane to Sweden has a mysterious accident. Maybe it gets hijacked by a terrorist. Maybe while he's in custody, he trips and falls in the shower and breaks his neck. Maybe while he's on the way to the courthouse, he stops to tie his shoes, falls and hits some bullets with his face. Maybe he just has a sudden heart attack and doctors can't explain it. Maybe one of the Interpol agents escorting this guy goes crazy and kills him, and later investigations show he was always a little overzealous and that the agency thought he had some mental issues and was already considering moving him to another position and they think maybe personal life troubles attributed to his breakdown.
A lot of people want this guy dead. A lot. Now I know we'd all like to believe the US government is a lot more competent than to blatantly murder the guy when the whole world's watching, but it's hard to have such faith in the government after some of these leaks. Plus, they're not the only players here with something to gain from his death. Political prisoners are almost always freed even in the worst of countries; Castro, Mandela, Suu Kyi. It is more dangerous to kill and make a martyr than just to put in jail where they are irrelevant.
Right, it'd be much worse to kill him and thus turn him into a martyr. But you're assuming all the players involved will be thinking rationally and having such foresight. Plus, he's perhaps the most extreme political prisoner there has ever been in human history.
Also, him being somehow extradited and never being heard from again is also a possibility.
|
On December 08 2010 01:59 Nizaris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2010 01:56 Whiladan wrote:On December 08 2010 01:54 Nizaris wrote:On December 08 2010 01:52 dcberkeley wrote:On December 08 2010 01:35 Krigwin wrote:
Guys, this is serious. This could be the last time we ever hear about this guy.
Next thing you know, his plane to Sweden has a mysterious accident. Maybe it gets hijacked by a terrorist. Maybe while he's in custody, he trips and falls in the shower and breaks his neck. Maybe while he's on the way to the courthouse, he stops to tie his shoes, falls and hits some bullets with his face. Maybe he just has a sudden heart attack and doctors can't explain it. Maybe one of the Interpol agents escorting this guy goes crazy and kills him, and later investigations show he was always a little overzealous and that the agency thought he had some mental issues and was already considering moving him to another position and they think maybe personal life troubles attributed to his breakdown.
A lot of people want this guy dead. A lot. Now I know we'd all like to believe the US government is a lot more competent than to blatantly murder the guy when the whole world's watching, but it's hard to have such faith in the government after some of these leaks. Plus, they're not the only players here with something to gain from his death. Political prisoners are almost always freed even in the worst of countries; Castro, Mandela, Suu Kyi. It is more dangerous to kill and make a martyr than just to put in jail where they are irrelevant. but if he is convicted of being a spy it's the death penalty so either way it doesn't look good for him. He is charged with crimes related to sexual misconduct... until they extradite him to the US yes.
That's purely speculation and sensationalizing at this point.
|
On December 08 2010 01:59 mechavoc wrote:
Hmm is it possible that he isn't a good guy, and he actually did something wrong? or Do we just assume that big bad governments are always the bad guys?
If you read the press about the incident it is pretty clear that he didn't do anything wrong. So no it's not possible.
|
USA is starting to look like china, except they speak english.
Sigh... Super powers doing whatever the fuck they want, and noone can do anything about cus theyre the big boys in the school yard...
|
On December 08 2010 02:02 Iplaythings wrote:
USA is starting to look like china, except they speak english.
Sigh... Super powers doing whatever the fuck they want, and noone can do anything about cus theyre the big boys in the school yard...
China? you're too nice. I was thinking of Stalin.
|
On December 08 2010 01:59 mechavoc wrote:
Hmm is it possible that he isn't a good guy, and he actually did something wrong? or Do we just assume that big bad governments are always the bad guys?
It is indeed possible. However, with the shadyness of the charges, the vagueness of wether or not they are real major charges at all (ie not the 715dollar fine thing), and the simple fact of timing; the case being re-openend days after the wikileaks output, just makes it all a bit iffy. On the other hand, if this is the "bad-guys" way of damage control then there are some seriously incompetent people there; they'r sparking up discussions like this one all over and if he actually dissapears he'll become a Martyr. I'll keep watching on with great interest.
|
On December 08 2010 02:01 Whiladan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2010 01:59 Nizaris wrote:On December 08 2010 01:56 Whiladan wrote:On December 08 2010 01:54 Nizaris wrote:On December 08 2010 01:52 dcberkeley wrote:On December 08 2010 01:35 Krigwin wrote:
Guys, this is serious. This could be the last time we ever hear about this guy.
Next thing you know, his plane to Sweden has a mysterious accident. Maybe it gets hijacked by a terrorist. Maybe while he's in custody, he trips and falls in the shower and breaks his neck. Maybe while he's on the way to the courthouse, he stops to tie his shoes, falls and hits some bullets with his face. Maybe he just has a sudden heart attack and doctors can't explain it. Maybe one of the Interpol agents escorting this guy goes crazy and kills him, and later investigations show he was always a little overzealous and that the agency thought he had some mental issues and was already considering moving him to another position and they think maybe personal life troubles attributed to his breakdown.
A lot of people want this guy dead. A lot. Now I know we'd all like to believe the US government is a lot more competent than to blatantly murder the guy when the whole world's watching, but it's hard to have such faith in the government after some of these leaks. Plus, they're not the only players here with something to gain from his death. Political prisoners are almost always freed even in the worst of countries; Castro, Mandela, Suu Kyi. It is more dangerous to kill and make a martyr than just to put in jail where they are irrelevant. but if he is convicted of being a spy it's the death penalty so either way it doesn't look good for him. He is charged with crimes related to sexual misconduct... until they extradite him to the US yes. That's purely speculation and sensationalizing at this point.
Ya it is speculation, but if he ends up in jail in Sweden/UK the US has the right to ask them to extradite him right? If he has been charged with spy-ing in the US by then.
|
On December 08 2010 02:04 Promises wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2010 01:59 mechavoc wrote:
Hmm is it possible that he isn't a good guy, and he actually did something wrong? or Do we just assume that big bad governments are always the bad guys? It is indeed possible. However, with the shadyness of the charges, the vagueness of wether or not they are real major charges at all (ie not the 715dollar fine thing), and the simple fact of timing; the case being re-openend days after the wikileaks output, just makes it all a bit iffy. On the other hand, if this is the "bad-guys" way of damage control then there are some seriously incompetent people there; they'r sparking up discussions like this one all over and if he actually dissapears he'll become a Martyr. I'll keep watching on with great interest.
honestly i doubt the politicians really care about the discussions they are sparking up when some might end up in prison when that bank data is released.
|
On December 08 2010 02:05 Nizaris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2010 02:01 Whiladan wrote:On December 08 2010 01:59 Nizaris wrote:On December 08 2010 01:56 Whiladan wrote:On December 08 2010 01:54 Nizaris wrote:On December 08 2010 01:52 dcberkeley wrote:On December 08 2010 01:35 Krigwin wrote:
Guys, this is serious. This could be the last time we ever hear about this guy.
Next thing you know, his plane to Sweden has a mysterious accident. Maybe it gets hijacked by a terrorist. Maybe while he's in custody, he trips and falls in the shower and breaks his neck. Maybe while he's on the way to the courthouse, he stops to tie his shoes, falls and hits some bullets with his face. Maybe he just has a sudden heart attack and doctors can't explain it. Maybe one of the Interpol agents escorting this guy goes crazy and kills him, and later investigations show he was always a little overzealous and that the agency thought he had some mental issues and was already considering moving him to another position and they think maybe personal life troubles attributed to his breakdown.
A lot of people want this guy dead. A lot. Now I know we'd all like to believe the US government is a lot more competent than to blatantly murder the guy when the whole world's watching, but it's hard to have such faith in the government after some of these leaks. Plus, they're not the only players here with something to gain from his death. Political prisoners are almost always freed even in the worst of countries; Castro, Mandela, Suu Kyi. It is more dangerous to kill and make a martyr than just to put in jail where they are irrelevant. but if he is convicted of being a spy it's the death penalty so either way it doesn't look good for him. He is charged with crimes related to sexual misconduct... until they extradite him to the US yes. That's purely speculation and sensationalizing at this point. Ya it is speculation, but if he ends up in jail in Sweden the US has the right to ask them to extradite him right? If he has been charged with spy-ing in the US by then.
No, I'm sure our Fuhrer Stalinbama will send his baby-killer hit squad to take him out during the trial. Take your sensational anti-american bullshit to a thread that is actually relevant.
|
Fair enough, it might be worth the risk, especially if they can get their hands on him and get the sources for the leaks. As said, I'll be watching with interest =)
|
On December 08 2010 01:59 mechavoc wrote:
Hmm is it possible that he isn't a good guy, and he actually did something wrong? or Do we just assume that big bad governments are always the bad guys? How is that even relevant? The leaks are confirmed true. Why do you care about whether Assange is "good or bad"? He could be child eating, psychopathic murderer. It doesn't make the leaks any less true.
This is a common disconversation tactic to try to diverge the attention of what is being discussed to the figure of the person making the speech. It's "How to win a discussion without being right 101".
ie.:
- Here's proof of corruption
- Yea... that's proof of corruption indeed. But you know what, you're a nazi child molester!
- So what? Sue me, literally. Here's still proof of corruption and you should be held accountable for it. And that won't change whether I get sued for being a nazi child molester or not.
|
On December 08 2010 02:07 Whiladan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2010 02:05 Nizaris wrote:On December 08 2010 02:01 Whiladan wrote:On December 08 2010 01:59 Nizaris wrote:On December 08 2010 01:56 Whiladan wrote:On December 08 2010 01:54 Nizaris wrote:On December 08 2010 01:52 dcberkeley wrote:On December 08 2010 01:35 Krigwin wrote:
Guys, this is serious. This could be the last time we ever hear about this guy.
Next thing you know, his plane to Sweden has a mysterious accident. Maybe it gets hijacked by a terrorist. Maybe while he's in custody, he trips and falls in the shower and breaks his neck. Maybe while he's on the way to the courthouse, he stops to tie his shoes, falls and hits some bullets with his face. Maybe he just has a sudden heart attack and doctors can't explain it. Maybe one of the Interpol agents escorting this guy goes crazy and kills him, and later investigations show he was always a little overzealous and that the agency thought he had some mental issues and was already considering moving him to another position and they think maybe personal life troubles attributed to his breakdown.
A lot of people want this guy dead. A lot. Now I know we'd all like to believe the US government is a lot more competent than to blatantly murder the guy when the whole world's watching, but it's hard to have such faith in the government after some of these leaks. Plus, they're not the only players here with something to gain from his death. Political prisoners are almost always freed even in the worst of countries; Castro, Mandela, Suu Kyi. It is more dangerous to kill and make a martyr than just to put in jail where they are irrelevant. but if he is convicted of being a spy it's the death penalty so either way it doesn't look good for him. He is charged with crimes related to sexual misconduct... until they extradite him to the US yes. That's purely speculation and sensationalizing at this point. Ya it is speculation, but if he ends up in jail in Sweden the US has the right to ask them to extradite him right? If he has been charged with spy-ing in the US by then. No, I'm sure our Fuhrer Stalinbama will send his baby-killer hit squad to take him out during the trial. Take your sensational anti-american bullshit to a thread that is actually relevant.
good argument, i was honestly asking a question. That is if it is possible he will end up in the US if you didn't get it the first time. Take your pro-American bullshit to a thread that is actually relevant cuz anti Americanism is certainly relevant here?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8166607/WikiLeaks-US-Senators-call-for-WikiLeaks-to-face-criminal-charges.html
They haven't charged him as a spy just yet, only call him a terrorist.
|
On December 08 2010 02:07 Whiladan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2010 02:05 Nizaris wrote:On December 08 2010 02:01 Whiladan wrote:On December 08 2010 01:59 Nizaris wrote:On December 08 2010 01:56 Whiladan wrote:On December 08 2010 01:54 Nizaris wrote:On December 08 2010 01:52 dcberkeley wrote:On December 08 2010 01:35 Krigwin wrote:
Guys, this is serious. This could be the last time we ever hear about this guy.
Next thing you know, his plane to Sweden has a mysterious accident. Maybe it gets hijacked by a terrorist. Maybe while he's in custody, he trips and falls in the shower and breaks his neck. Maybe while he's on the way to the courthouse, he stops to tie his shoes, falls and hits some bullets with his face. Maybe he just has a sudden heart attack and doctors can't explain it. Maybe one of the Interpol agents escorting this guy goes crazy and kills him, and later investigations show he was always a little overzealous and that the agency thought he had some mental issues and was already considering moving him to another position and they think maybe personal life troubles attributed to his breakdown.
A lot of people want this guy dead. A lot. Now I know we'd all like to believe the US government is a lot more competent than to blatantly murder the guy when the whole world's watching, but it's hard to have such faith in the government after some of these leaks. Plus, they're not the only players here with something to gain from his death. Political prisoners are almost always freed even in the worst of countries; Castro, Mandela, Suu Kyi. It is more dangerous to kill and make a martyr than just to put in jail where they are irrelevant. but if he is convicted of being a spy it's the death penalty so either way it doesn't look good for him. He is charged with crimes related to sexual misconduct... until they extradite him to the US yes. That's purely speculation and sensationalizing at this point. Ya it is speculation, but if he ends up in jail in Sweden the US has the right to ask them to extradite him right? If he has been charged with spy-ing in the US by then. No, I'm sure our Fuhrer Stalinbama will send his baby-killer hit squad to take him out during the trial. Take your sensational anti-american bullshit to a thread that is actually relevant.
What thread would that be, exactly? I can't think of a more appropriate thread for "sensational anti-american bullshit", as you so eloquently put it.
As an aside, I work in Chinatown, and the past few days I've been doing a little experiment and asking people how they feel about this. Naturally, pretty much all of them, being of course mostly first-generation Chinese immigrants, have never heard of Wikileaks and don't keep up with politics, much less American politics, but the amusing part is 100% of them fully expected that the US government would assassinate or imprison Assange once I explained the situation to them. There was absolutely no doubt about this from the full range of people I talked to. Everyone from business owners to lawyers to random cooks fully expected for Assange to die a mysterious death or else disappear into the bowels of some secret prison.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
