• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 01:37
CET 07:37
KST 15:37
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners11Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada1SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA3StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship7[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage4
StarCraft 2
General
SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t Craziest Micro Moments Of All Time? RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close"
Tourneys
Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Tenacious Turtle Tussle Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions Where's CardinalAllin/Jukado the mapmaker?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Grand Finals [BSL21] RO32 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta PvZ map balance How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Path of Exile Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1813 users

For Whom the Bell Tolls

Forum Index > General Forum
Post a Reply
1 2 3 Next All
zeroimagination
Profile Joined August 2009
18 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-05 06:42:21
January 05 2010 06:40 GMT
#1
AUTHOR'S NOTE:
In light of recent developments I questioned whether I should post this or not. But then I realized that I'm awesome and I'm going to post it. This time though I decided I would give my IRL self some credit and tried to make it as PLAIN AS POSSIBLE as to who wrote it. Also, for reference. I put it up at my own personal web space provided by my school. You'll notice it does not have this preface and was uploaded PRIOR to me posting this here. There may be discrepancies as I tend to get confused when working with 2 walls of texts and trying to format them with different tags. Enjoy.

http://www.csupomona.edu/~cmung/Articles/AMDvsIntel2.html
+ Show Spoiler +
For those of you who want to know my previous post to try and prove my innocence was not trustworthy, so my status as a FAILURE is open-ended.



For Whom the Bell Tolls
BY CHRISTOPHER UNG

Blackened roar, massive roar, fills the crumbling sky
Shattered goal fills his soul with a ruthless cry


I wrote a a couple months ago that Intel’s upcoming Clarkdale processor would be Thor’s mighty hammer coming down on AMD’s Cinderella shoes. Most of my deductions were based on hearsay and rumors. Well, today reviews of the new Clarkdale are making front page of any tech blog worth its weight in bandwidth. The clock has struck twelve, will AMD find a fairy tale ending?

Now that the Clarkdales are official, let’s see their lineup.
[image loading]
(http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3704&p=1)

An unexpected surprise, and not the pleasant kind. We see that the i5 line, while impressive in its own right, is priced into quad territory – a dual core no man’s land. For $196 retail we enter what I would describe as professional level pricing, at this price you can easily grab an i5-750, which presents possibly the best value per dollar in the CPU market right now, or the newly revised Phenom II 955 BE C3 stepping, which has been shown to overclock to upwards of 4GHz with just a tick of the multiplier. Don’t forget this is their mid-range i5 dual we are talking about here. What market could Intel possibly seek to grab with a dual core here? Both the i5-750 and the Phenom II 955 handle even the most intensive games with relative ease, and both can overclock to 4GHz+. Perhaps Intel is seeking to carve out a dual core niche as it did with its previous E8600 or perhaps it is simply preparing for the projected pricing wars ahead.

What is most interesting is the i3 lineup. The blue-boxed, blue-collar hero really does bring the heat, figuratively speaking of course. With the top-end i3 zooming along at just over 3GHz, and more importantly a starting price of $113 we begin to see AMD’s product losing traction. We have an Athlon II X4 alternative, a Phenom II X3 killer, and it may even be able to cut into weaker Phenom II X4 territory. How can a lowly dual core usurp the hierarchy of the multi-core elite?

Hyper-Threading.

Up until now Hyper-Threading was used mostly as a marketing gimmick. Today, for most daily and even moderate to heavy gaming use, dual cores are just starting to be pushed to their limits so it’s easy to see why introducing Hyper-Threading in the Pentium 4 era showed little to no improvements. Using Hyper-Threading on a dual core processor, today, to enable four virtual threads, effectively adding two additional processors, has shown to have real world applications in traditionally quad core dominated benchmarks. From 3D rendering to video encoding, the i3 540 keeps up, and rarely bests, Intel’s famous Q6600 while its higher clocked i5 siblings compete with the Q9400.

Another unexpected surprise of the unpleasant variety that marks Clarkdales’ christening is its gaming performance. With all its improvements and new technology it’s still, clock for clock, not that much of an improvement and in some cases shows no improvement at all over the steadfast E8000 Wolfdales. It seems no matter how hard Intel tries it simply cannot outdo its Core2 line with the potency it needs to. Socket 775 owners should sleep easy knowing that though they are outdated, they are not yet obsolete. The E8500 holds the dual core front and the Q9550 holds for the Core2Quads. That doesn’t seem to be changing anytime soon.

What does all this mean?

Crack of dawn, all is gone except the will to be
Now they see what will be, blinded eyes to see


AMD was the Cinderella story, the underdog, the one everyone loved to root for against the big, bad Intel. However, given the introduction of Clarkdale, AMD is nowhere near the value per dollar Intel is right now. Sure, AMD still has good processors in the Phenom II 550 BE and Athlon II 620 but I can’t see anywhere in the $120 to $160 range where an AMD would be a better choice over Clarkdale. Of course, there are always exceptions, but for the majority of mainstream users, the choice is clear.

All is not lost. AMD still remains a promising long-term cost-effective solution. AM3 will live to the introduction of the fabled Bulldozer, and possibly beyond. That means owners of AM3 motherboards can upgrade to 6 cores and possibly 8 cores without changing sockets while the Intel roadmap currently shows Socket 1156 as essentially dead as it is hitting the glass ceiling imposed by Socket 1366. Even for the high-end Socket 1366, all 2010 promises so far is a $999 hexacore, the i7 980X.

What’s AMD’s next move?

I’ll answer it this time. It needs to hit back and it needs to hit hard. There are no new quad core introductions for AMD, at least until Bulldozer comes out in 2011, which leaves 2010 riding on the success of the hexacore, Thuban. Thuban is essentially built on the current Phenom II 45nm architecture, just with two additional cores. That in itself really spells disaster when pitting it against the 32nm Intel i7 980X. However, it also provides a silver lining in the cloud. If Thuban is based on a tried and true architecture, yields should be higher, and manufacturing costs should be lower than Intel’s 32nm counterpart. If AMD is able to achieve this, retail prices should be much lower than Intel’s hexacore. This, coupled with much more affordable high-end motherboards, shows promise to keep the initial price of an AMD Thuban system lower than the stratospheric i7 980X.

Though Intel seems to be succeeding in stealing market segment from AMD the one problem I see with its strategy is that AMD has the capacity to manufacture its processors at very, very low cost. AMD is currently producing single socket processors that are backwards compatible: AM3 / AM2+; and two architectures: Deneb, Propos. Intel on the other hand is producing processors for three sockets: 775, 1156, 1366; and three architectures: Core, Nehalem, and Westmere. However, Westmere is just a 32nm shrink of the 45nm Core architecture and may prove to be cheaper in the long run.

Intel just continues to bury AMD in terms of performance and each time AMD stick one foot out the grave another wave just pushes it down. Even if Bulldozer is a huge success, it’ll have to deal with Intel’s 22nm Sandy Bridge.

For whom the bell tolls
Time marches on
For whom the bell tolls
home of vaporware
DM20
Profile Joined September 2008
Canada544 Posts
January 05 2010 06:43 GMT
#2
Less computer talk more Metallica
LeoTheLion
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
China958 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-05 06:49:47
January 05 2010 06:46 GMT
#3
oh i see nm
Communism is not love. Communism is a hammer which we use to crush the enemy. -Chairman Mao
Jonoman92
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
United States9104 Posts
January 05 2010 06:47 GMT
#4
gl with the plagiarism thing, and thanks for the post. I built my own computer a while back and learned a modest amount about Intel/AMD. It's interesting to see how the technology and the competition continues to develop.
IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32277 Posts
January 05 2010 06:48 GMT
#5
AMD take a look
to the sky
just before you die
it's the last time you will
Moderator<:3-/-<
GTR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
51497 Posts
January 05 2010 06:50 GMT
#6
On January 05 2010 15:43 DM20 wrote:
Less computer talk more Metallica


dun dun dun dudududu dududu dun dun dun
Commentator
zeroimagination
Profile Joined August 2009
18 Posts
January 05 2010 06:51 GMT
#7
Less Metallica more nerd arguing please!
home of vaporware
FragKrag
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States11552 Posts
January 05 2010 06:55 GMT
#8
Man what I want to see from AMD is another line of quad cores + dual cores. The Athlon IIs are awesome cores at this point, but the i3 and i5 line seems to completely massacre them in every possible way.

I don't see how AMD can continue without another Socket or some other innovation with their lineup because at this rate, their cores will all have superior, cost efficient intel competition. The i5 line takes a bite out of the Phenom II market, and these new i3s seem so much better than the Athlon II.

It will be interesting to see what AMD can do besides the fucking hexacore that has been hyped to mars lately.

However I disagree when you say that the i5/i3 don't show much of an improvement over the C2D and C2Q. They have the newer, more efficient architecture with the removal of the FSB, and the addition of that hypertransport thing, along with the L3 cache. I don't think the 775 can compete against the 1156. It's interesting to see you mention clock for clock, because that is something most people recommend comparing cpus with.
*TL CJ Entusman #40* "like scissors does anything to paper except MAKE IT MORE NUMEROUS" -paper
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17426 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-05 07:06:38
January 05 2010 07:03 GMT
#9
On January 05 2010 15:50 GTR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2010 15:43 DM20 wrote:
Less computer talk more Metallica


dun dun dun dudududu dududu dun dun dun




Edit: I've just realised (again) how great this entire album was. Definitely the best from Metallica.

Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
FragKrag
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States11552 Posts
January 05 2010 07:07 GMT
#10
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3704&p=2

WHYYYY WHYYYYYYYYYYYYY


WHYYYYYYYYYYYY
*TL CJ Entusman #40* "like scissors does anything to paper except MAKE IT MORE NUMEROUS" -paper
SoleSteeler
Profile Joined April 2003
Canada5449 Posts
January 05 2010 07:08 GMT
#11
Less Metallica, more John Donne!
zeroimagination
Profile Joined August 2009
18 Posts
January 05 2010 07:09 GMT
#12
On January 05 2010 15:55 FragKrag wrote:
However I disagree when you say that the i5/i3 don't show much of an improvement over the C2D and C2Q. They have the newer, more efficient architecture with the removal of the FSB, and the addition of that hypertransport thing, along with the L3 cache. I don't think the 775 can compete against the 1156. It's interesting to see you mention clock for clock, because that is something most people recommend comparing cpus with.

I meant that simply to mean that if you were waiting on upgrading your current 775 system for a Clarkdale, it might not be worth it compared to a simple processor upgrade.
home of vaporware
T.O.P. *
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Hong Kong4685 Posts
January 05 2010 07:12 GMT
#13
AMD could compete if the FTC fines Intel big time in their Antitrust lawsuit. Intel will have to fork over lots of dough and then they can't sell their new processors so cheaply.
Oracle comes in, Scvs go down, never a miscommunication.
zeroimagination
Profile Joined August 2009
18 Posts
January 05 2010 07:13 GMT
#14
On January 05 2010 16:12 T.O.P. wrote:
AMD could compete if the FTC fines Intel big time in their Antitrust lawsuit. Intel will have to fork over lots of dough and then they can't sell their new processors so cheaply.

Ah, I remember reading about a settlement between Intel and AMD recently.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/13/technology/companies/13chip.html

!
home of vaporware
FragKrag
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States11552 Posts
January 05 2010 07:17 GMT
#15
It's not like that much money could bridge the technology gap between Intel and AMD.

Intel cores are just BETTER at the moment. Back when AMD first had their hypertransport on the AM3 I believe (before intel i7), they had something to brag about, but now, all they have is a fucking hexacore.
*TL CJ Entusman #40* "like scissors does anything to paper except MAKE IT MORE NUMEROUS" -paper
T.O.P. *
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Hong Kong4685 Posts
January 05 2010 07:19 GMT
#16
On January 05 2010 16:13 zeroimagination wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2010 16:12 T.O.P. wrote:
AMD could compete if the FTC fines Intel big time in their Antitrust lawsuit. Intel will have to fork over lots of dough and then they can't sell their new processors so cheaply.

Ah, I remember reading about a settlement between Intel and AMD recently.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/13/technology/companies/13chip.html

!

But the government is still suing them. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091216/ap_on_hi_te/us_tec_intel_ftc_antitrust

Plus they are in the process of appealing a $1.45 billion fine from the E.U. and $18.6 million fine in Korea.

And then the New York attorney general filed a antitrust lawsuit against Intel

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/technology/companies/05chip.html

Imo, AMD would be in a way better position nowdays if Intel didn't use anticompetitive practices. They had the faster and more efficient processor in the athlon days.
Oracle comes in, Scvs go down, never a miscommunication.
Jaxtyk
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States600 Posts
January 05 2010 07:28 GMT
#17
I thought the thread was about the book For Whom the Bell Tolls
To tell the truth....I could beat anyone in the world.
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21244 Posts
January 05 2010 07:29 GMT
#18
Less Metallica, less Hemingway, more John Donne.
TranslatorBaa!
weaksauce
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
369 Posts
January 05 2010 08:26 GMT
#19
the book ends just as it starts! but with a twist...
even if he DID detect penis - cubEdin
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17426 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-05 08:32:06
January 05 2010 08:31 GMT
#20
Currently the bell tolls for Microsoft:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-10308013-75.html

I wonder how it's gonna end...

+ Show Spoiler +

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-10420391-75.html?tag=mncol;posts
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 5h 24m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 960
Tasteless 275
ToSsGirL 36
Icarus 12
League of Legends
JimRising 593
Counter-Strike
Coldzera 440
Other Games
summit1g16424
C9.Mang098
NeuroSwarm50
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick719
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH194
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt521
Other Games
• Scarra1843
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Korean Royale
5h 24m
OSC
10h 24m
Replay Cast
16h 24m
Replay Cast
1d 2h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 5h
Classic vs Solar
herO vs Cure
Reynor vs GuMiho
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
1d 16h
The PondCast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Solar vs Zoun
MaxPax vs Bunny
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
[ Show More ]
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Classic vs Creator
Cure vs TriGGeR
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
herO vs Gerald
ByuN vs SHIN
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
BSL 21
4 days
Tarson vs Julia
Doodle vs OldBoy
eOnzErG vs WolFix
StRyKeR vs Aeternum
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Reynor vs sOs
Maru vs Ryung
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
5 days
BSL 21
5 days
JDConan vs Semih
Dragon vs Dienmax
Tech vs NewOcean
TerrOr vs Artosis
Wardi Open
6 days
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-07
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.