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I am not sure if people have noticed how the new versions of programs tend to be bigger and bigger all the time even though they have no visible new features or anything of the sort...
I am amazed that now I am forced to upgrade my MSN 8.5 to a new version which is nothing less than 65MB... and that is just an update... I mean for what the fuck do I need 65MB for chatting with my friends? forced....
Then I was thinking how cheap Terabytes have become and I cant help but think that they are actually trying to force everybody to purchase high storage HDDs, I mean with HD DVDs, and programs like Adobe whos pdf reader was about 5mb and now you cannot get any version below 130MB for doing the same thing ( opening a pdf ) and Nero which version #6 was the best now have around 300MB for nothing, i cant help but get paranoid...
I simply hate it...
Now what do you think guys, am i paranoid or is just simply stupid...?
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United States24772 Posts
I don't really think it's a conspiracy...
A lot of things that get bigger like games have some very obvious reasons why. Maybe some experts can explain the particular examples you gave.
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I agree. they are also using tons more memory, an indication that they're getting far more inefficient which generally means worse programming. we all have to bend over.
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On November 07 2009 07:10 micronesia wrote:
I don't really think it's a conspiracy...
A lot of things that get bigger like games have some very obvious reasons why. Maybe some experts can explain the particular examples you gave.
well if the game has better graphics and stuff is ok... I am refering to programs that have no new features or nothing really "better" about them... they do exactly as they did before, sometimes worse... BUT they are eating your HD for no reason... and you are FORCED to have the new version, you like it or not ( unless you use an alternative program which usually I miss this or that feature )
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People want to add new features to keep people coming back to their product. Useful or not, new features generally take up new space. I don't know why you're complaining about something in the 10s of MB unless your hard drive has the capacity of a small flash drive. Honestly you shouldn't be worrying about space as long as they keep the program streamlined and fast. MSN / WLM has always been bloat, (much like the rest of MS shit), and you'll just have to deal with it.
There is no conspiracy. They force you to update so they can provide better support when you have problems. Newer versions tend to have less problems as long as they're not adding a bunch of useless stuff.
If you don't like it, switch to linux and write your own programs.
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Sweden33719 Posts
CD BurnerXP
SumatraPDF
I know that's not what the topic was about but I prefer those two programs over nero/adobe pdf anyway 
Also, I think there are some work-arounds for the forced update of msn (patches and what not). I don't care enough at the moment to do anything about it myself.
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It's probably more that programmers can't be arsed to micro-optimize(relatively speaking) their programs, when there's such an abundance of resources available. Considering most people have half a TB diskspace or more at their disposal, a couple of extra MB for convenience's sake(or whatever it is) seems like no big deal.
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There is no doubt that they are forcing us to use more so they can sell their new supercool hardware that will allow you to run the latest software. It has been working for a while.
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Foxit reader is 7MB.
Usually updates include new features, better graphics, etc. Coding isn't getting 'less efficient', new technology is simply more complicated.
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Security in programs. Take your msn, a shitload portion of its programming is probably devoted to keeping you secure. Unfortunately the end user usually don't notice this kind of stuff so they just automatically assume it's because the programmers are incompetent and the company's evil etc etc.
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There are always lightweight alternatives. I would recommend foxit instead of adobe but foxit is starting to blow lately as well, go with sumatra.
For MSN, the alternative.. there's way too many. My main choice is miranda.. look @ the size and memory usage.. lol:
+ Show Spoiler [miranda SS] +
Plus it has way more functionality than MSN (it's a multi-protocol client for starters) and is way more customizable too.
The reason this is happening.. well space is no longer the issue it was back even a decade ago.. hdd sizes are increasing super fast, it's actually getting ridiculous There's no incentive for such optimization anymore.. developer's time is (presumably) better spent adding new features to programs. Plus people want programs that do everything, like look at my converter program of choice (although this isn't the greatest example, SUPER is still incredibly fast and lightweight despite its amazing functionality. Holy grail of programs right here!):
+ Show Spoiler [SUPER SS] +
Don't sweat it =)
If it bothers you that much, find alternatives, like many others have.
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This is good news to programmers that are skilled enough to produce efficient programs.
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your OP belongs in the "nerdiest thing you've ever done" thread.
you can say:
" i posted on TL believing that there is a conspiracy of increasing software sizes to get me to buy more harddrive space"
SERIOUSLY?
thats like saying theres a conspiracy to spread McDonalds everywhere so that everyone will become obese.
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thats like saying theres a conspiracy to spread McDonalds everywhere so that everyone will become obese.
I'm going to do some research, I believe you're on to something
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I am forced to upgrade my MSN 8.5 to a new version
You aren't forced to do anything, unless there's a guy standing behind you with a gun to your head. Use alternative software.
Miranda IM ftw.
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PRESSURE
+ Show Spoiler +Suck it up, can't stop progress, etc Extra features sells products.
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On November 07 2009 15:17 Sadistx wrote:You aren't forced to do anything, unless there's a guy standing behind you with a gun to your head. Use alternative software. Miranda IM ftw.
by forced I mean that I cannot really use version 8.5 (the version I like the most) because when I try to log in it simply tells me that there is a new version, If I click in "I dont want to download it now" then it simply wont log in...
I know there is a loadshit of other alternatives, but the question is WHY cant I use the one that I like just because they decided that the new one is "better" when in my own eyes the 65MB they are asking for it dont simply worth it...
I am not saying that I cant use msn at all, I use meebo or miranda now, but why am i forced to do that is my question.
And no, I am not talking about a "conspiracy" it is very obvious what they do... what I dont know is why we keep falling for it... why does vista need almost 10GB just to get installed when a lot of people out there dont want most of the features? then you say, "yes but you can stay with XP"... well thats not really the case when they force updates to your PC that instead of helping they make a mess to force you to buy the new product. Some day they will just plainly lock all win95/98 with an update that wont allow them to do nothing more than see a huge advertising saying "your pc is shit, change it to vista now.... and there is nothing you can do except for going linux".... -pc owner: " but I like my 95/98" -microsoft: "s-s-s-suck it bbbbitch".
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The following is VERY VERY IMPORTANT and will answer all your question regarding these types of things.
As you know, there is thing called Moore's law, which suggests that every 18 months or so, a chip will have 2x the transistors and be ~2x faster.
There is also a related law, which we will call the Laziness law. Every 18 months or so, the laziness of programmers approximately doubles, so the code they produce is twice as bad and voluminous/slow compared to what it could optimally be.
The net gain: larger file sizes and no speed increase!
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it's a joke
i had to download the drivers for my HP all in one printer cos i lost the cd , the full thing was 460 megabytes
remember back in win98 they used to just give you a couple of dll files and a readme? took like 5 seconds to get it going.takes ages now and theres always a memory hogging program involved with it that wants to be in the background all the time.
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It is a little bit from column A and column B in my opinion.
A: Additional things are being placed inside more functionality but which may not be visible to the end user.
B: Due to the rapid growth of available system resources (from lets say 10 years back to now [and even then 20 years back to 10 years back]) efficiency in programming isn't as important as it once was. I am not saying efficiency should not be overlooked, if you can code something to run more efficiency then try to but there are more things to consider such as:
- If it will take a extra X months and Y amount of dollars to make the program Z% more efficient do you do it? dependent on a few things...
- If your program is using 2/4/16 bytes to store something rather then just 2 does it matter... again dependent on so many factors...
Thing is also these days the computers you have at home are quite powerful compared to what they need to do, (why complain about 50mb when you have terrabytes now) so does it really matter? shrug.
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On November 07 2009 17:25 swat wrote:
Thing is also these days the computers you have at home are quite powerful compared to what they need to do, (why complain about 50mb when you have terrabytes now) so does it really matter? shrug.
Because even if they are cheap not all of us has 1/2 a Tera and some of us cant really afford it since family and real life dont allow it... but then this bastards dont allow you to keep the old good stuff and simply try to force their way in to making you have the newest thing even if you dont like it or if its not necessary, I am not seriously complaining about the 50MB itself is the fact that I cannot log in just because they decided...
For the record I am not an oldie (~25yrs old) but I think I am starting to feel that some things are not really that necessary because now I have some other things that are more important. I feel that I am starting to understand those 70-80yr old people that still insist that going personally to some places is better than sending an email... maybe we are wrong and they were right.
Maybe they DO add some security features (like that patch against webcam hacking in MSN) but hell you dont have to FORCE me to have the patch... shit I dont even talk to people `on webcams... and yes I know miranda but I liked MSN messenger over Miranda and every time I use it, just gives me a headache of missing things that I use daily...
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Law of programming: Programs expands to fill available memory.
If you are a lazy programmer and you know you can save hundreds of hours of work by using more memory......... ah but all programmers optimize their code generation relative to time~
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Usually the next version of a piece of software will have all the old parts + some new parts. So it naturally gets bigger from version to version. Only if you have a dedicated team and enough time or if you're bound by size conditions then will you think about the hard disk space your program uses. First thing is probably features and usability.
Though I really don't know why MSN would take up that much space lol.
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Quicktime is just as bad Ill never own a fucking ipod apple so quit fucking making me install itunes every time your piece of shit movie player wants to update.
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It's got more to do with the standard of storage capabilities in general of most systems today.
Developers take advantage, and can up features.
While you may not notice the new features, there certainly is alot more under the hood if you take a closer look however, much of it is decorative stuff, as in the case of msn, more blinks backgrounds themes and so on that seems to be clogging the tubes.
Bottom line is developers have no interest in you buying new harddrives, they just like to take advantage of the fact that they don't have to conserve as much as they used to.
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i hate it so much that i have to update from a MSN i like to some flashy retarded version for 12 year old girls with all this extra crap i dont give a damn about, yeah i guess i could go use something else, but i liked my msn the way it was, why cant they let me have my ancient msn in peace.
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i'd like to mention how absolutely HORRIBLE some of the essential adobe plugins / software are. Acrobat reader crashes firefox all the time, and flash is certainly not stable. And when I use acrobat reader in firefox, then close all my applications (including firefox) and try and shutdown the computer, I almost ALWAYS get a "acrobat reader is not responding".... message and I have to force shut down acrobat reader. Or I get some weird message about how "the memory could not be read".
i've since switched to foxit reader, and save my own sanity..
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Lately the computer industry has been taking a turn toward a group of people i like to call "fucking retards." These are the people who dont even know what the screen in front of them is called. They (computer industry) write their programs geared at them. The extra bloat you see is not only the immensely bloated UI, but its also a help file documenting every little pixel of it. Then, in the case of microsoft, you have all the backdoor programs and "information" collectors. Get used to it.
BTW thats why brother owns, driver install: 1.7mb.
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Foxit reader ftw!
Things are definitely being geared towards the non computer literate (apple is BASED on it), but with so many alternatives out there you can easily beat the conspiracy.
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Use trillian for IM and foxit for pdf.
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this is incredibly entertaining :D i can imagine us all in our 70's whining about the resource hogging programs these days... nothing like back in the good old days.
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Northern Ireland26784 Posts
Did we ever get to the bottom if there was a conspiracy between programmers and hard drive manufacturers?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/e9ER5.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/U2WkM.png)
