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On September 02 2009 20:24 nebffa wrote:
Ok, let's think in general. America has a higher death per capita rate due to guns than most countries. Coincidentally, its gun ownership laws are more relaxed than most countries.
Despite what you may say, I am glad I live in a country where the average standard citizen will never touch a gun in their life.
Then you might say, America is not a Utopia, we need guns there in order to protect ourselves. Maybe. If magicaly one day there was the option for all of American private firearms (except for military/police weaponry) to disappear into thin air, as well as gun restriction laws being introduced in order to prevent a resurgence in ownership of firearms, would you take this option?
If you reject it, I can only assume one of two things:
a) you still believe one should carry guns in order to protect themselves by 'one-upping' people with melee weapons such as machetes. Ultimately, this increases crime rate by the common citizen being able to carry guns. Not a good outcome.
b) you believe it is a core principle of the United States that one has the right to "bear arms". In this case, your priorities are obvious. You believe that people's right to carry weaponry comes before the overall safety of society. It is ironic that you would then be a proponent of private gun ownership for the sake of societal safety (ie. people in general can protect themselves using guns).
The support of guns in America has always seemed to me as part of the 'me first' attitude to life. In general I see that this is a bit more expressed in Americans, with regards to other things like your health care system. That isn't to say it's just the United States that exhibits this behaviour. Global warming in particular has lately exposed this mentality in a lot of other countries.
It is not a "me first" attitude. It is an "I know whats best for me" attitude as opposed to your "I know whats best for YOU" attitude.
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I am surprised that so many Americans want guns, I thought the vast majority of America was christian.
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On September 02 2009 20:24 nebffa wrote:
Ok, let's think in general. America has a higher death per capita rate due to guns than most countries. Coincidentally, its gun ownership laws are more relaxed than most countries.
Despite what you may say, I am glad I live in a country where the average standard citizen will never touch a gun in their life.
Then you might say, America is not a Utopia, we need guns there in order to protect ourselves. Maybe. If magicaly one day there was the option for all of American private firearms (except for military/police weaponry) to disappear into thin air, as well as gun restriction laws being introduced in order to prevent a resurgence in ownership of firearms, would you take this option?
If you reject it, I can only assume one of two things:
a) you still believe one should carry guns in order to protect themselves by 'one-upping' people with melee weapons such as machetes. Ultimately, this increases crime rate by the common citizen being able to carry guns. Not a good outcome.
b) you believe it is a core principle of the United States that one has the right to "bear arms". In this case, your priorities are obvious. You believe that people's right to carry weaponry comes before the overall safety of society. It is ironic that you would then be a proponent of private gun ownership for the sake of societal safety (ie. people in general can protect themselves using guns).
The support of guns in America has always seemed to me as part of the 'me first' attitude to life. In general I see that this is a bit more expressed in Americans, with regards to other things like your health care system. That isn't to say it's just the United States that exhibits this behaviour. Global warming in particular has lately exposed this mentality in a lot of other countries.
This is close to what i think.
I think it's hard for people in other countries that don't have the high crimerate and gun policy of USA to understand the points of view expressed in this thread. Personally i think guns being illegal is the better way to go (Seriously, look at the statistics from other countries). However, this is too late for USA. Outlawing firearms now that everyone has one would, as stated before only make the law biding citizens unarmed vs the armed robbers.
Also: the argument that robbers will always get their hands on weapons even if they are illegal is not true, i think when house owners escalate things by getting gun they force robbers to get them as well and vice versa...
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Those poor robbers, they just want to peacefully take our things and we FORCED them to bring weapons!
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On September 02 2009 21:06 ViruX wrote:
I am surprised that so many Americans want guns, I thought the vast majority of America was christian.
Oh yeah and christians dislike violence and weapons so much.....what about the crusades? Your view of christianity is bullshit
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I wonder what % of americans actually like/want/own guns. I think its probably a lower number then many outside the US like to think it is.
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On September 03 2009 03:53 Slaughter wrote:
I wonder what % of americans actually like/want/own guns. I think its probably a lower number then many outside the US like to think it is.
I'd say its somewhere around 50%, just a guess though.
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That seems way high to me -.- maybe just because the only people I know with guns is my grand father who has a shotgun and 22 pistol that he got from his father and is like 70 years old that he keeps somewhere deep in storage.
Edit: I found some place that said about 27-30%
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On September 03 2009 04:01 Slaughter wrote:
That seems way high to me -.- maybe just because the only people I know with guns is my grand father who has a shotgun and 22 pistol that he got from his father and is like 70 years old that he keeps somewhere deep in storage.
Edit: I found some place that said about 27-30%
When you say like/want are you referring to people who literally owns guns as a hobby or whatever reason, or do you mean people who like/want guns in our society?
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I say that to people who like to hunt or sport shooting. I think the % of people who are for the right for people to own guns is higher just because they have some idea that people shouldn't be deprived of something even if they personally don't own or like guns.
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On September 03 2009 03:53 Slaughter wrote:
I wonder what % of americans actually like/want/own guns. I think its probably a lower number then many outside the US like to think it is.
40 million Americans own 200 million guns. However, one thing to keep in mind is that different states have different setups. Missouri, again where I'm from, we don't have to register them nor do any paper work to transfer them. So say I have a gun of my dad's well does that actually mean we both own it? Perhaps, but what I'm getting at is that the number should be higher, but its a bit hard to calculate. Still though using that logic, a gun owner would be listed as the person who owns it, not his kids/wife for example. So in a house hold of 4, well if the one guy was the only technical owner you'd have a high percentage of families owning them making that 50% maybe not accurate, but not way out of the ball park either.
States like California where its like law-for-everything central would probably be more accurate in knowing the number of guns at least in their state, but yeah states like mine its wayyyyy harder. Plus you have antique guns and just all sorts of things.
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On September 02 2009 21:06 ViruX wrote:
I am surprised that so many Americans want guns, I thought the vast majority of America was christian.
loooooooool
At least here in Oklahoma, the proud belt buckle of the American Bible Belt, in a 95% Christian town, these are the most violent racist gun loving douchefucks I've ever seen. This has nothing to do with religion.
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At least the Bible Belt is home to most of the crazy religious people while the rest of the country is at a normal level. You see the crazies tend to congregate heavily in certain areas of the country 
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
Lmfao at all of the people that say you need to be trained to use a gun, no, no you don't. I've shot about 20 different guns with my people in the south of this city , and they can shoot anything without practice, so can I..
My dad was also in the army and I got a pic of him with a m20 I think it was, he says its not as hard as you idiots who've never shot guns think it is. You don't need any fucking training, just load, shoot, good bye to all your worry's.
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On September 03 2009 06:13 Clasic wrote:
Lmfao at all of the people that say you need to be trained to use a gun, no, no you don't. I've shot about 20 different guns with my people in the south of this city , and they can shoot anything without practice, so can I..
My dad was also in the army and I got a pic of him with a m20 I think it was, he says its not as hard as you idiots who've never shot guns think it is. You don't need any fucking training, just load, shoot, good bye to all your worry's.
I was thinking this.. but I've only shot two small handguns before so I don't really feel like I know what firing weapons of different types is like, so I didn't talk ;]
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I think most people can agree that it is almost a fact that banning guns long-term would result in fewer murders since guns result in fatality so much more often than other forms of violence and the fact that many violent interactions would not occur in the first place without guns. (When someone shoots at you and you have a gun you might shoot back. But if they have a knife and you do too you'd probably not be inclined to get in a knife fight.)
(Talking about the US here)
The problem is the interim period where the law-abiding citizens give up their guns, but the criminals don't. Then you have people who complain, somewhat rightfully imo, that they can't defend their homes and families and even though it might be safer long-term, short-term the bad guys have a big leg-up on normal citizens (yes, yes, I know it's rare but when a single family is held at gun-point and robbed the media would eat it up and public opinion would want their guns back). Also, I bet this would result in black marketing of guns and stuff but guns seems like they'd be harder to smuggle than drugs so that shouldn't be a huge problem. The biggest problem is no politician, except in a really liberal state, could ever push for a gun ban, or even increased restrictions because so many people are against it.
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On September 03 2009 22:21 Jonoman92 wrote:
I think most people can agree that it is almost a fact that banning guns long-term would result in fewer murders since guns result in fatality so much more often than other forms of violence and the fact that many violent interactions would not occur in the first place without guns. (When someone shoots at you and you have a gun you might shoot back. But if they have a knife and you do too you'd probably not be inclined to get in a knife fight.)
(Talking about the US here)
The problem is the interim period where the law-abiding citizens give up their guns, but the criminals don't. Then you have people who complain, somewhat rightfully imo, that they can't defend their homes and families and even though it might be safer long-term, short-term the bad guys have a big leg-up on normal citizens (yes, yes, I know it's rare but when a single family is held at gun-point and robbed the media would eat it up and public opinion would want their guns back). Also, I bet this would result in black marketing of guns and stuff but guns seems like they'd be harder to smuggle than drugs so that shouldn't be a huge problem. The biggest problem is no politician, except in a really liberal state, could ever push for a gun ban, or even increased restrictions because so many people are against it.
How could you live in the US and want to ban guns? Don't you know your history??
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Yes because the second we ban guns those tea drinking bastards are gonna cruise over and start pillaging.
Times change.
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That reminds me of the southpark where the birtish were sailing to invade the US in a fleet of old school wooden warships rofl.
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On September 04 2009 04:05 Jonoman92 wrote:
Yes because the second we ban guns those tea drinking bastards are gonna cruise over and start pillaging.
Times change.
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EPT
