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On September 03 2016 21:09 TokO wrote:
I'm losing hope as the days go on but I am just hoping that Day9 is prepping his Atlas content, and that he will announce at the end of a string of high profile streamers. Until he announces his upcoming new content I think it's impossible to say.
Until I whip out my 12inch dick, it's also impossible to say that my dick isn't 12 inches.
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unrelated, my name at SC1 lans was "12 inch madness" usually. if i lost, i'd revert back to "1 inch sadness"
miss those days and hauling my computer 4 blocks on foot.
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Maybe they just have the same employer strategy as Blizzard and if Day9 says anything about the game before its out the bomb in his head will explode.
All this reading into something, but thinking a person might not have the time for it or is contractual bound doesn't pop up first. Stop watching GoT, it will just turn you into drama paranoids.
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On September 04 2016 00:22 FeyFey wrote:
Maybe they just have the same employer strategy as Blizzard and if Day9 says anything about the game before its out the bomb in his head will explode.
All this reading into something, but thinking a person might not have the time for it or is contractual bound doesn't pop up first. Stop watching GoT, it will just turn you into drama paranoids.
A simple tweet saying the game is in open alpha. Help the developers test it would be pretty expected.
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Yeah I'm pretty sure Day[9] can't have left on good terms, what with not tweeting about it, streaming it, or anything like that. Dno if he quit because he was frustrated with the game and his control over it or was fired though.
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On September 03 2016 20:20 nighcol wrote:
- he's been designing the game for years and as it enters public alpha he doesn't even give it a mention on Twitter
- this while Grubby even gets sponsored to show off the game, would expect Day9 to be a pretty natural fit to do that as well and they're obviously looking for some publicity so the silence from Day9 doesn't make sense
when Day9 announced he was leaving Artillery he didn't use @Artillery in his twitter post.
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Artillery has never been subject to public scrutiny, there is a real paucity of articles about them. I can find like four articles online, this is the most recent one but it contains no new information. Several of the other articles are essentially hype pieces from three years ago when they broadcasted the HTML5 tech.
As far as I know Day[9] has said nothing about leaving Artillery other than the one tweet(?) and has not responded to any questions on twitter and whatnot. He is enthusiastically talking about Atlas competitor Dota2 on Twitter though. I find it odd and think that as former game designer and public face of Artillery he owes the community more of an explanation lest he be thought of as frivolous in honoring his professional commitments.
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By the way, regarding the pathfinding, like two years I noticed the following: that in Atlas you can surround a unit so that it can't move by utilizing just three other units, while in BW, WC3 and SC2 there is a minimum of four units. In SC2 it's really five units. I thought that was a clever observation, so I was wondering if someone could check if that's still the case in Atlas (can't play myself).
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Day[9] left artillery gaming some time ago. He said it explicitly in the introduction to one of his hearthstone streams. It was a while ago now so I can't remember which episode exactly; but it couldn't have been more than a week or two ago.
So now he is joyously talking about how he has more time to do other things, like a "cooking with Day 9" show or doing some Brood War tips and tricks videos (I don't know if streaming revenue is that good but I guess he's excited nonetheless). The reason for his departure is unclear, in that he never discussed anything more than his departure. I find it odd that he would leave while the game is still in alpha, as I imagine there would still be a little bit of a balancing left to do, and as a game designer that would be his key role going forward. This leads me to speculate that he was "let go".
But I'm not sure. I do know for a fact that Day 9 is no longer a part of artillery gaming. I went to their website to see the "team" page but that's not showing anymore. I wonder why??? I love speculating 
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I like how Artillery released the game on Friday and the following Friday paid Grubby to cast the game. It gave the game a super shot in the arm starting off a weekend. Its a great way to test players/viewers "attachment" to the game as the weekend progresses. in general for all video games ... playing peaks on Sundays. Well, viewers/players are just not attaching to the game.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/kXKRybc.jpg)
Less than 1000 twitter followers. Reddit is a ghosttown with less than 500 subscribers.
This game has zero chance of financial viability.
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they probably have almost no marketing budget, or are saving whatever they have for when the game leaves alpha
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It doesn't have much to do with marketing, honestly I played the tutorial and got bored right off the bat.
I'm not hearing things such as it being an exceptionally good game yet. Most people who were interested in the game were RTS fans who were into base-building, resource management and strategy. There is none of that in GOA, which is basically just a MOBA with units. Which is an interesting idea in itself, but not an engaging myself for me personally. I don't see the die-hard MOBA fans trying out Atlas rather than DOTA, Smite or LoL, I don't see die-hard RTS fans trying out Atlas rather than traditional RTS games.
Who runs after two hares catches neither. That said, I'm sure there's an idea for a MOBA with units instead of just heroes, but this is basically a venture into the already saturated MOBA scene. Doing so, whilst trying to attract a minority of niche fans (RTS players) while phasing out of the game some of the more interesting features of RTS in the first place... well how is that going to work out?
Maybe I'm not giving the game enough credit but I'm not really on board the hype train anymore.
This could very well be another Age of Empires Online. Good concepts, botched launch, "saving" the game when it's too late. Also shit art.
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They have raised $11 million. I am sure they have some marketing budget. They are probably waiting for the game to be at a more complete state to use it. It is not like ton of players heard about the game, tried it and then left it because they didn't like it. 99% of game's target audience haven't even even heard about it yet.
It is a game from a new company, no major media outlet has talked about it, no marketing is done other than a stream from Grubby, it is not on Steam they lost the reason people have heard about the game a couple of weeks before open alpha started. The game has a good number of players when you consider all of that.
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i think we have discussed it to death for like 20 pages earlier in the thread, but like incognoto said i'm not sure who this game is meant to appeal to.. with regard to moba players, they're notoriously difficult to dislodge from dota/league/strife because of the initial time investment.. also, moba players typically don't really like multiple unit heroes usually (well, they find them more difficult) like broodmother/invoker, because that's not really why they play mobas.. mobas are all about that human element of strategy with a dash of team compositions/meta. which atlas has, but the auxiliary mechanics requirement of having to control some production and unit control is going to alienate a lot of moba players... it might appeal to "monobattle" players from sc2, but i'm skeptical how big the market with moba players...
with regard to RTS players, the game just isn't good enough to justify a competitive scene. it lacks economic, mechnical, tactical, and strategic depth compared to both sc2 and broodwar.. and while it might be hard to get moba players to change games, i don't think i have ever heard of a sc2 or bw player changing focus to a different RTS after playing them competitively, either because of the time investment or how much they enjoy the game.. usually if they switch it's to cs or mobas to play with friends, or they don't have the time for an rts, or to "make money"
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I think it can attract RTS players, except for those who play RTS games for the base management aspect. I don't like MOBAs, RTS is my favortite genre, I have probably spent over 1000 hours playing SC2 and I love the game. It can also attract players who like RTS games as a concept but can't get into playing multiplayer because of a steep learning curve. Like I said though, it is not like game's concept is rejected by players and that is why it has a small playerbase. People just haven't heard about it yet.
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One issue for the development of the game was that a lot of people on the forums were relatively positive in their feedback. This led the developers to think that perhaps the boring micro wasn't really an issue.
And I have to agree that at this point in time, it is all but over. It's F2P. People have watched Grubby play it. But people didn't really find it interesting enough to continue playing. And obviously Grubby didn't.
I also don't even think you should have to pay streamers to play it. If you make an RTS that actually is easy to learn but w/ a very high micro skill cap and lots of interesting strategic decisions, you will get everyone who once was relevant in the Sc2 community to try it out and stream it.
"Lack of marketing" is the biggest bullshit excuse I see everytime a game fails. It comes from the few fans who actually liked the game and they want to believe there is nothing wrong with the game and the only problem is that other people just don't know about it.
Whereas great games actually become known through word-to-mouth pretty quickly.
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I think it can attract RTS players, except for those who play RTS games for the base management aspect.
And except for those who actually want to play a game where they can micro. You think Grubby gave a shit about macro? You think Grubby is desperate to play this game again?
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Grubby seemed to have enjoyed it. He was overall positive about the game.
I also don't even think you should have to pay streamers to play it. If you make an RTS that actually is easy to learn but w/ a very high micro skill cap and lots of interesting strategic decisions, you will get everyone who once was relevant in the Sc2 community to try it out and stream it.
"Lack of marketing" is the biggest bullshit excuse I see everytime a game fails. It comes from the few fans who actually liked the game and they want to believe there is nothing wrong with the game and the only problem is that other people just don't know about it.
Whereas great games actually become known through word-to-mouth pretty quickly. You are talking as if thousands of players played the game and didn't like it. You can actually see how many people signed up for the game in the forums. Gaming community at large is simply oblivous to the game's existence. If they ramp up marketing, get a lot of new players but can't retain them, then your argument would make sense. Currently, people don't know about the game and many people who played it like the game even if it is only in alpha.
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Grubby seemed to have enjoyed it. He was overall positive about the game.
You know he was paid to stream it. He is obviously not gonna say it was boring if he thought so.
But note what he said at the beginning of the stream: "I want a game with micro".
Several hours into the game he said "I did it. I finally microed" (after body blocking another unit). So if he played a game where he wanted to micro and he feels like he isn't microing, chances are he isn't having fun.
And note that after the first 1-2 games he was asked what he thought about it, and he responded "I don't know".
And if he acutally thought it was fun he would obviously have said "Yes that was fun". You think people who played Overwatch for the first few hours said "I don't know if I am having fun with this game?" No they all said they loved the initial experience.
So if you make a micro-based RTS game and people who want to micro cannot even get to a situation where they feel they are microed, you failed as a developer.
And the fact that he hasn't played it further should make it quite obvious he is only playing it because he was paid too.
And you can also just look to the Atlas forums. Alot of people have been complaining about the lack of micro as well. The idea that everyone who likes RTS but just isn't into basebuilding will be appealed by this game, is absurd.
It reminds me of those who said "Heroes of the Storm is more fun unless you want to CS minions".
Yeh, that's such an ignorant statement as well because there are tons of other stuff in LOL/DOTA that gave those games more depth. But even then, I still belive that statement is less wrong than your statement.
You also think that the reason noone is excited (anywhere) about the game is due to lack of basebuilding? Or you just think that noone can actually be excited and appealed by high skill cap micro interactions?
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No. I don't think people aren't excited about the game because of lack of base building. I don't think people aren't excited about the game. I think people haven't heard about the game so comparing it to Heroes of the Storm is ridiculous.
About Grubby: He said "he doesn't know yet" when asked if the game is good because he had played like 1 game at that point. How can he give an impression when he didn't properly play the game? That's what he meant. Here's his impressions towards the end of the stream:
https://www.twitch.tv/followgrubby/v/87237671 (2:11)
So he says he would play the game again but doesn't know if he can due to his schedule. He said on another occasion that he would play it off stream. Like he said on the stream, he is not someone who plays many different games. He is not a streamer that streams a different game every week, he only streams WC3 and HotS. Of course he is not going to change his streaming schedule, that doesn't mean he didn't like the game or thought it was boring.
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i wasn't necessarily defending the game's flaws, or lower skill ceiling compared to starcraft, etc, i just genuinely think most people who might be interested in playing it simply haven't heard of it yet.
for the record, i haven't even been playing much myself, it's a decent game imo but starcraft is still significantly better for what i'm looking for
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EPT
