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Sweden33719 Posts
I've decided to learn GO (or baduk in korean, weiqi in chinese), I know the rules decently by now, haven't actually gotten around to playing yet, but I find the GO problems posted on various sites really enjoyable 
Which brings me to the point of this topic; I've been doing the beginner ones over at gobase.org, and so far I've understood why most of them are the correct moves and what I'm trying to accomplish by playing them, but these two http://gobase.org/studying/problems/warmingup/?lev=1&off=14 confuse me somewhat..
The first one took me a long time to even figure out where on the board it was I (most of them I've understood fairly quickly, as I've been able to understand what the goal is)..
The second one I found immediately, but only because they seem to come in pairs (like 2 similiar problems at a time).. And I think they are both moves done to prevent him from laddering you, right? Seems to make sense on the 2nd one at least, but the first one I can't see how he could really catch you anyway? Actually, I'm not even sure what you are protecting, but I guess it's the 3 stones at the top.. Yeah, any explanation on this one would be appreciated.
I realize there's probably not a lot of GO players here but registering for gobase requires a non-webbased email which I don't have access to at the moment so I'll try my luck here.
So, if anyone can help, thanks.
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www.goproblems.com
http://gtl.xmp.net/
http://senseis.xmp.net/
Are all good sites to start with.
Once you get past the basics, you can start learning joseki via Kogo's joseki dictionary, and file best used with ggo. http://panda-igs.joyjoy.net/java/gGo/
As for playing actual games, I recommend IGS, get the PANDA-net software. You can also try KGS http://kgs.kiseido.com/ for some fast games.
If you're a beginner, those problems are a bit advanced, and you may not be reading into them as fully as intended, or maybe not There is no guaranteed capture on the second problem btw, the reason to make that move is in terms of efficiency... I suggest slugging through the time trial on goproblems.com until you find a level that's not easy.
I'm 4k igs if you want to play sometime, I'm kinda rusty though --;
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Sweden33719 Posts
Thanks 
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Is this the game where you try to surround the white/black circle piece things against the other guy by taking a 6+ hours for a single game?!!
Love this as much as that weird chinese symbol blocks matched with green,red, and black writing. Very cool indeed. :D :D gonna learn some now!
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Hey FA,
It's great to hear that you're picking up go. It is such a beautiful game, and I personally find it much more interesting than chess. I often find that there is a high correlation between starcraft/Go/poker.
I'm 1 dan IGS so I can help you whenever you need it.
Regarding those 2 problems...
After a while, you will begin to notice the patterns and instinctively know what will happen. It's kinda like playing PvZ where you kinda just "know" when you have to cannon up, etc. The first thing I would recommend for beginners would be to play the scenarios to the end, and as many strings of possibilities as possible. It takes a lot of mental effort but you really have to go through every possibilty. As you gain experience, you will be able to prune the options to a couple choices, and you can go through fewer scenarios.
Second thing you should do is to always count the liberties of every group of stones. Let's take problem 15 as an example. The group of white stones on the upper right have at least 5 liberties(not counting the territory inside). The group of black stones right below it have 4 liberties. The group of white stones on the far left have 7 liberties. The string of 3 black stones in the upper middle have 3 liberties and the lone white stone has 2 liberties. At this point, it is a capturing race between the lone white stone and the group of 3 black stones, because these groups have the fewest liberties. Another thing to consider is that the black stones are pinned to the bottom while the white stone has room to escape into the center. So even though black is ahead by one liberty and has the first move, it becomes a tricky situation in capturing that white stone. If you play out each scenario carefully, you will see that the indirect diagonal move is the only way black could capture that stone without having his 3 stones captured first.
The second problem BTW is a guaranteed capture for black. The trick is that you have to sacrifice one stone to reduce white's liberty if white ataris the two black stones and the does the diagonal capping move afterwards.
Just get in the habit of counting liberties at all times and playing out as many scenarios as possible. You then have to try to remember why something did, or didn't work and then store it into your memory bank for future reference.
And quietidiot, games can take 6 hours or more but most casual games take about 30-60 minutes.
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I'm not really good at Go, but I'll try to explain it.
First, the problem on the left. If you look closely at the white group in the right corner, you can tell that it is alive, there is practically no way to kill it. You can play 0,3 and then white will play 0,2 and it goes downhill for black if he tries to forcefully take white from there. Its better to have a Go board to visually see it, but yea. Capturing white at 5,3 is vital because if you don't do anything, he can play a vital move at 6,2. I can explain it further if you can't see why its vital, and also white has solidness with the 3 pieces on the left, which makes your weak lefthand group very prone to getting owned.
Thus you must use the ladder on white's cutting piece to protect both your seperate black groups. White can also play 1,5 to cut you off from the right side and follow up with 4,4 to put you in a pinch. That black group on the bottom right is not in a very strong shape, thus its lack of liberties is easily taken advantage of.
I'll think about the second one later, I have to go for now. If anyone who is a better player can explain better, please do so, because I'm not sure if I'm right =\
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anyone care enough to give me an update of the current international go scene? does koreans still dominate like they do in sc? does jap still suck ever since the 60s or did Chinese finally caught up with the koreans?
l've read a news some where a few weeks ago where a chinese player finally won a tianyuan tournament. All i can say is finally, for everyyear the final is like 4 or 5 chinese players versus 1 or 2 koreans but everytime the lone korean would triumphant.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On February 01 2006 18:41 tenbagger wrote:
Hey FA,
It's great to hear that you're picking up go. It is such a beautiful game, and I personally find it much more interesting than chess. I often find that there is a high correlation between starcraft/Go/poker.
I'm 1 dan IGS so I can help you whenever you need it.
Regarding those 2 problems...
After a while, you will begin to notice the patterns and instinctively know what will happen. It's kinda like playing PvZ where you kinda just "know" when you have to cannon up, etc. The first thing I would recommend for beginners would be to play the scenarios to the end, and as many strings of possibilities as possible. It takes a lot of mental effort but you really have to go through every possibilty. As you gain experience, you will be able to prune the options to a couple choices, and you can go through fewer scenarios.
Second thing you should do is to always count the liberties of every group of stones. Let's take problem 15 as an example. The group of white stones on the upper right have at least 5 liberties(not counting the territory inside). The group of black stones right below it have 4 liberties. The group of white stones on the far left have 7 liberties. The string of 3 black stones in the upper middle have 3 liberties and the lone white stone has 2 liberties. At this point, it is a capturing race between the lone white stone and the group of 3 black stones, because these groups have the fewest liberties. Another thing to consider is that the black stones are pinned to the bottom while the white stone has room to escape into the center. So even though black is ahead by one liberty and has the first move, it becomes a tricky situation in capturing that white stone. If you play out each scenario carefully, you will see that the indirect diagonal move is the only way black could capture that stone without having his 3 stones captured first.
The second problem BTW is a guaranteed capture for black. The trick is that you have to sacrifice one stone to reduce white's liberty if white ataris the two black stones and the does the diagonal capping move afterwards.
Just get in the habit of counting liberties at all times and playing out as many scenarios as possible. You then have to try to remember why something did, or didn't work and then store it into your memory bank for future reference.
And quietidiot, games can take 6 hours or more but most casual games take about 30-60 minutes.
Haha, the PvZ reference feels spot on =] Thanks for the post, really helpful.
And thanks to dka too.
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FA,
If you want some teaching games, I'll play you on IGS.
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Sweden33719 Posts
Hey, thanks
Add me to msn if you have it (I'll pm it to you).
Keep in mind tho, I don't know much more than the rules.. Dont know any joseki or anything at all really (I'm not even 100% comfortable with all the rules yet).
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On February 01 2006 21:34 haduken wrote:
anyone care enough to give me an update of the current international go scene? does koreans still dominate like they do in sc? does jap still suck ever since the 60s or did Chinese finally caught up with the koreans?
l've read a news some where a few weeks ago where a chinese player finally won a tianyuan tournament. All i can say is finally, for everyyear the final is like 4 or 5 chinese players versus 1 or 2 koreans but everytime the lone korean would triumphant.
Chinese still sucks and pretty much Japanese and Koreans dominate. =\
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Currently, the inernational Go scene is clearly dominated by the Koreans, with the Chinese second and Japanese third.
I'd say ever since Lee Changho came on the scene in the early 90's Korea has been at the top. Over the past 5 years or so, China has clearly stepped ahead of Japan to take second place. Japanese Go still has the highest prize money, and the most history and prestige. But the Japanese talent level is clearly lagging way behind Korea and China. Even the top pro that plays the Japanese pro circuit is Taiwanese.
There are 7 major international titles and Korea has 4, China 2 and Japan 1. Although the Japanese title is held by a Taiwanese (Cho U), he is considered a "Japanese" pro because he plays in Japan. But as recently as 2004, a Korean held every major international title. In fact, this is the most titles non-Koreans have held in about a decade. Also, there is the Nong-Shim ramen noodles Cup, a tournament between China, Korea and Japan, where each country sends their top 5 players and they play it knockout style like the old MBC team league. Korea has never lost this cup and Lee Changho is like the oov/nalra where he is Korea's final card. I think for 3 straight years, he had to win 3 games in a row for Korea to win and each time, he pulled it off. He's actually undefeated in that tournament.
There are so many promising Korean teenagers coming up, that pretty much guarantees Korean domination for another decade or so. But China has been catching up a bit and may prove to be a legitimate threat. Japan is pretty much dead, they have no talent in the pipeline coming up and most of their pros are aging quickly.
My ranking of the top 10 in the world:
1. Lee Changho (Korea)
2. Choi Cheolhan (Korea)
3. Lee Sedol (Korea)
4. Park Younghoon (Korea)
5. Gu Li (China)
6. Cho U (Japan, but ethnic Taiwanese)
7. Chang Hao (China)
8. Yoo Changhyuk (Korea)
9. Luo Xihe (China)
10. Song Taekon (Korea)
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EPT
