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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On April 25 2012 00:21 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 00:09 Sated wrote:On April 24 2012 18:38 Rebs wrote:On April 24 2012 18:14 Kaesebrot wrote:Pique is fit, but manager Pep said he has not played him because of Masch and Puyol are a good pairing No way. Pique is the best defender in the world. Mascherano is not even a defender. Hes been pretty god aweful a looottt of games this season. But then again you'd have to have seen it. His only redeeming feature has been his passing out of defense. Otherwise his positioning has been suspect, and therefore pace bothers him when they get caught offgaurd, and most importantly Mascherano other faults aside is a better 1 to 1 defender. This last point been true forever not just recently. None of Barcelona's defenders are world-class in the truest sense of the word. In a lot of other teams they simply wouldn't be good enough. I'd compare their deficiencies to the problems that David Luiz has exhibited thus far at Chelsea: On the ball they are incredibly talented, especially for defenders, but off the ball they have poor marking and poor defensive movement, making them very susceptible to long-ball "kick-and-rush" football. Pique would've never made it at Manchester United and thus is a classic example. The difference for Pique at Barcelona is that, because of the way they play and because of the way most teams they come up against play, it is better for them to have a competent defender who is really good on the ball (Pique) than a really good defender who is competent on the ball (someone like Vidic, I guess). When you rarely give the ball away like Barcelona, and when you have a midfield system that restricts the opponent's chances to pick out long-range passes from the very moment you lose the ball, having defenders with world-class defensive movement isn't that much of a problem... ... Although I'd go on to point out that Chelsea's goal against Barcelona came about precisely because their defensive movement is not world-class. Pique was also pretty young when he played at United.
I'll add he was good at united too, they were moulding him into a nice CB, but barcelona came sniffing (To have him back much like Fabregas deal) and Pique asked Sir Alex if he could leave and go play for them, and the rest is history. He says he still owes alot to sir alex which is a nice touch i guess, but imo he learnt his defensive trade in England for the 1-2 seasons he managed here.
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On April 24 2012 18:14 Kaesebrot wrote:Show nested quote +Pique is fit, but manager Pep said he has not played him because of Masch and Puyol are a good pairing No way. Pique is the best defender in the world. Mascherano is not even a defender.
I think Pique is pretty good but I really don't think he is the best defender in the world. Thiago Silva is the first that comes to mind along with Vidic.
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Come on Barca, time to save the season!
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On April 25 2012 01:18 Pandemona wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 00:21 RvB wrote:On April 25 2012 00:09 Sated wrote:On April 24 2012 18:38 Rebs wrote:On April 24 2012 18:14 Kaesebrot wrote:Pique is fit, but manager Pep said he has not played him because of Masch and Puyol are a good pairing No way. Pique is the best defender in the world. Mascherano is not even a defender. Hes been pretty god aweful a looottt of games this season. But then again you'd have to have seen it. His only redeeming feature has been his passing out of defense. Otherwise his positioning has been suspect, and therefore pace bothers him when they get caught offgaurd, and most importantly Mascherano other faults aside is a better 1 to 1 defender. This last point been true forever not just recently. None of Barcelona's defenders are world-class in the truest sense of the word. In a lot of other teams they simply wouldn't be good enough. I'd compare their deficiencies to the problems that David Luiz has exhibited thus far at Chelsea: On the ball they are incredibly talented, especially for defenders, but off the ball they have poor marking and poor defensive movement, making them very susceptible to long-ball "kick-and-rush" football. Pique would've never made it at Manchester United and thus is a classic example. The difference for Pique at Barcelona is that, because of the way they play and because of the way most teams they come up against play, it is better for them to have a competent defender who is really good on the ball (Pique) than a really good defender who is competent on the ball (someone like Vidic, I guess). When you rarely give the ball away like Barcelona, and when you have a midfield system that restricts the opponent's chances to pick out long-range passes from the very moment you lose the ball, having defenders with world-class defensive movement isn't that much of a problem... ... Although I'd go on to point out that Chelsea's goal against Barcelona came about precisely because their defensive movement is not world-class. Pique was also pretty young when he played at United. I'll add he was good at united too, they were moulding him into a nice CB, but barcelona came sniffing (To have him back much like Fabregas deal) and Pique asked Sir Alex if he could leave and go play for them, and the rest is history. He says he still owes alot to sir alex which is a nice touch i guess, but imo he learnt his defensive trade in England for the 1-2 seasons he managed here.
Yea I have to agree. Saying he isnt good based on the fact that he wasnt making at United at the time isnt really fair. There is no shame in being second fiddle and unable to make the team behind Vidic and Ferdinand at their peak. If he was still at United you really think the Johnny Evans and Smallings would get a look in ? Doubt it. Not to the extent that they are now anyway.
Barcelona didnt always play as well , and saying he wasnt an important cog in them becoming what is now considered or has been for a while (because I dont think they are anymore) the best team in the world is grossly inaccurate.. Hes an excellent defender, his recent form problems aside, which most defenders (cept maybe a John Terry) experience. People forgetting how Torres skinned Vidic time and time again ? He got over that. You could argue Torres is trash now but that has alot to do with Vidic getting the monkey off even when Torres wasnt the shell he is now. Pique is no different.
All this stuff of them not having to be good defenders because of the way Barcelona play is nonsense. Any defender on the planet will have trouble when faced with the attacking threats of world class teams or even good attacking teams (like alot in Spain are) which are good enough to break the pressure up the pitch. Their impressive defensive record has just as much to do with their crisis management as it does with Barcelona's aggressive defending up the pitch.
Sure teams have gotten better at exposing holes in their play. That doesnt mean the holes havent always been there. Its just that they have been good enough to plug them against what were usually not efficient enough attacking threats.
Saying their defense has always been bad based on a string of results is retrospective rubbish. Its silly when peoples crawl out of their "I told you so" holes or if tunes change on the back of run of performances instead of analyzing what the case is as a whole. Are Chelsea defenders trash because Van Persie and (i got no first touch) Walcott were running rampant at the bridge? Absolutely not.
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All three CBs in Barça are world class.
Piqué and Puyol have been the backbone of the defensive line for both Spain (Europe and World champs ) and Barça (the Pep team is probably best team evah with their 13 out of 16 titles  ). Puyol has been a key man in Barça's eleven starters for like 12 years now.
Mascherano is just rock solid at everything but air play, captain of Argentina and a must in it. In Maradona's words "Argentina is Mascherano and 10 more guys".
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On April 25 2012 02:34 Salteador Neo wrote:All three CBs in Barça are world class. Piqué and Puyol have been the backbone of the defensive line for both Spain (Europe and World champs ) and Barça (the Pep team is probably best team evah with their 13 out of 16 titles ). Puyol has been a key man in Barça's eleven starters for like 12 years now. Mascherano is just rock solid at everything but air play, captain of Argentina and a must in it. In Maradona's words "Argentina is Mascherano and 10 more guys".
Maradona's opinion of Argentina's team selection has almost no value, but I would agree that Mascherano's conversion to CB has been quite wonderful for his club. Not being good in the air is okay at Barcelona but can be a real problem when playing for a team that doesn't dominate possession. Perhaps Maradona's quote about "blah blah and 10 guys" would fall better on Cambiasso/Zanetti/Banega, those guys actually make things work.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
OMG What weird team by barca!!
Barcelona - Valdes; Pique, Mascherano, Puyol; Xavi, Busquets, Iniesta, Cesc; Cuenca, Messi Alexis
Chelsea - Cech Ivanovic Terry Cahill Cole Mikel Merieles Lampard Ramires Mata Drogba
Oh my..3-4-3 for barca... xD
On April 25 2012 02:57 Mondieu wrote:
How do you know the starting teams ?
Twitter is fun around match days, and had it confirmed on Chelsea TV
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How do you know the starting teams ?
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No Alves 
Barca Subs: Pinto, Alves, Thiago, Keita, Adriano, Pedro and Tello
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gogo Chelsea, make me some money tonight <3
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I'm predicting Barca will win this, however whether or not they will win with a margin big enough to advance I'm not so sure about. It's about 50/50 in my mind right now, guess there's only one way to find out 
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The biggest game in the English teams recent history, a must win!!! Going away from home needing a result or their season is over, go go.... Bolton 
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
LOL Barca dropping all pretence and starting with 3 at the back. I have a feeling Drogba's going to enjoy himself tonight, if he isn't too busy trying to win Oscars.
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I can feel my heartrate going up, almost kickoff now!
VISCA EL BARCA! COME ON!
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I'd love to witness a match live at Camp Nou, such an amazing atmosphere and impressive audience
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On April 25 2012 03:44 Argoth. wrote:I'd love to witness a match live at Camp Nou, such an amazing atmosphere and impressive audience
It is an amazing atmosphere. The whistling that goes on there when the opposition has any semblance of possession is very intimidating. Hopefully Chelsea can pull something out tonight.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
Is UEFA trolling by fielding such an untested ref?
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anybody got a stream i can watch? please?
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3 min 1st attempt by Messi, it's going to be a long match for a Chelsea fan
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EPT
