On September 20 2011 02:42 DEN1ED wrote:
It was really one of the only reasons to play black though. Black really doesn't offer anything unique now.

Liliana is pretty unique and most people expect it to be a big player in Standard.

last.resistance

Canada543 Posts

September 19 2011 20:56 GMT

#1222

So I drafted today and had a decent W/U deck. Then I lost power for 15 minutes after casting Day of Judgment in the first game. Came back into the game with about 5 minutes left on my timer. My opponent then cast Jade Mage with enough mana to make three Saprolings a turn. Sigh.

Question after reading the full spoiler:

Are Planeswalkers considered to be creatures? If not, Bramblecrush.

Cel.erity

United States4890 Posts

September 20 2011 01:24 GMT

#1223

On September 20 2011 05:56 last.resistance wrote:
So I drafted today and had a decent W/U deck. Then I lost power for 15 minutes after casting Day of Judgment in the first game. Came back into the game with about 5 minutes left on my timer. My opponent then cast Jade Mage with enough mana to make three Saprolings a turn. Sigh.

Question after reading the full spoiler:

Are Planeswalkers considered to be creatures? If not, Bramblecrush.

Nope, they're just Planeswalkers.

slyboogie

United States3423 Posts

September 20 2011 01:36 GMT

#1224

Man, stick with Beast Within. You'll be happier for it.

Antipathy

United States222 Posts

September 20 2011 04:20 GMT

#1225

Big news, lots of banned/restricted list changes, mainly to modern and extended.

Taken from: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/161a

Announcement Date: September 20, 2011
Effective Date: October 1, 2011
Magic Online Effective Date: October 12, 2011

Modern
Blazing Shoal is banned.
Cloudpost is banned.
Green Sun's Zenith is banned.
Ponder is banned.
Preordain is banned.
Rite of Flame is banned.

Extended
Jace, the Mind Sculptor is banned.
Mental Misstep is banned.
Ponder is banned.
Preordain is banned.
Stoneforge Mystic is banned.

Legacy
Mental Misstep is banned.

Vintage
Fact or Fiction is no longer restricted.

Scars of Mirrodin Block Constructed, Standard
No changes

Judicator

United States7270 Posts

September 20 2011 04:35 GMT

#1226

Wizards dropping the Fuck your deck? Mental Misstep ban in legacy was interesting.

slyboogie

United States3423 Posts

September 20 2011 04:55 GMT

#1227

Wow, they took a hammer to Modern - I like it! Cloudpost seemed like it had to go and Blazing Shoal just felt graceless to me. But did Greensun Zenith have to be banned?

EDIT: Actually, some of you guys might know better than me but was it just a preemptive ban? Maybe WotC is just going after some Zoo supplements proactively because they banned mostly combo?

Cixah

United States11285 Posts

September 20 2011 05:17 GMT

#1228

I can't say I didn't expect this. Green Sun in modern seems goofy, as does Ponder or Preordain. I figured they would leave atleast one of the 2. A lot of chatter around the pros is that they wanted to make Wild Nacatl the benchmark for good cards in modern with this ban (Chapin and Finkle in particular).

As for the Cloudpost ban. This is so very good for the format. Now that it's gone an actual control deck can surface due to not having to contend with 9-15 mana on turn 3 consistently.

On a personal level, I'm kinda disappointed to not see Dismember get the way of the hammer in standard. This card just leads to so stale of a format that I feel that if I play efficient mana costing dudes all that it really gets me is 4 less of his life and way behind on board. Hopefully the aggro heavy format that is to come will stop this slightly.

Edit: The green sun ban is simply because it has odd reactions as a turn 1 ramp spell with Dryad Arbor, as well as being a late game Surgical Knife when you tutor for Gaddock Teeg.

Fenrir-Vice

United States123 Posts

September 20 2011 05:32 GMT

#1229

I disagree with misstep ban in legacy... and i say this as a vial stoneforge white-weenie player

slyboogie

United States3423 Posts

September 20 2011 07:04 GMT

#1230

On September 20 2011 14:17 Cixah wrote:
Edit: The green sun ban is simply because it has odd reactions as a turn 1 ramp spell with Dryad Arbor, as well as being a late game Surgical Knife when you tutor for Gaddock Teeg.

Isn't...isn't that the point of the card? Wizards could not have NOT known this - it's so blatant! This isn't some unintended crowdsourced interaction like Kiki-Jiki/Splinter Twin and Deceiver Exarch and it's not over-crafted like Pyromancer's Ascension.

Well, I don't play Modern so I shouldn't gripe. It's just weird to me to ban a card when it has never presented a serious design or gameplay issue.

Vitozerm

Canada25 Posts

September 20 2011 07:34 GMT

#1231

those are some serious bannings!

obviously modern needed most them but GSZ, ponder, and preordain seem really strange..

i can understand GSZ because (it appears to me) they wanted to take out the tools that made the best decks the best and GSZ for a nicatal or goyf seems like too much value. In that vain of thought i guess banning ponder/preordian makes splinter twin either use the combos as a plan B or kills the deck completely

That said, even though i understand why they pulled the trigger on all these i think ponder and preordain should have stayed.

I forsee a meta that is completely dominated by catfish/countercat/zoo even without GSZ

i think goyf should have been banned over GSZ (its probably going to be like 110-130 now *sigh*)

hope it turns out better than i dread it will.

Vitozerm

Canada25 Posts

September 20 2011 07:36 GMT

#1232

ALSO

banning mental misstep is going to blow up Legacy
THAT is going to be really fun to see

MCMcEmcee

United States1609 Posts

September 20 2011 08:08 GMT

#1233

GSZ ban hits elves and other green creature combo decks harder than it hits Zoo imo. I'm sure Zoo will be fine without GSZ for Gaddock Teeg/Qasali Pridemage in a format without consistent turn 3 combo kills.

I don't think many cards need to be banned but Wizards decided to go down the terrible road of "listen to QQ and ban everything" so zzz.

Ban Slash Panther and Rune-Scarred Demon!

Orpheos

United States1663 Posts

September 20 2011 13:02 GMT

#1234

ponder and preordain are extremely powerful cards, its just not necessarily obvious.
like I think this standard format that is about to rotate was actually just dominated by preordain. like people always look to the flashy cards but preordain was just so ridiculous. one of the most important parts of magic is the 60 card minimum, and preordain lets you play less cards(with abit of tempo loss) as well as fix your draws. its so absurd. aaron forscythe said himself that a change to preordain was made late and they hadnt tested it as much(maybe it was serum visions until late?).
ponder is just as bad with fetchlands. it takes abit more work, but it digs and extra card deep.

I didnt really see the GSZ banning coming, but honestly i dont really mind it. its a pretty powerful engine. I just wonder which engine will end up rising to the top that wizards allows. I feel like they should have taken abit more from zoo, but then again with cloudpost out of the format it might be a slight nerf to zoo because decks will have an easier time with more consistent maindeck ways to fight little dudes.

Fenrir-Vice

United States123 Posts

September 20 2011 16:52 GMT

#1235

On September 20 2011 16:36 Vitozerm wrote:
ALSO

banning mental misstep is going to blow up Legacy
THAT is going to be really fun to see

no... it really won't actually. legacy was a great format for years upon years before misstep was even printed. Brainstorm has been there for ages. There are more than enough cheeky shenanigans that any color can bring out to deal with combo after sideboard.

slyboogie

United States3423 Posts

September 20 2011 20:46 GMT

#1236

Coolest Standard interaction I've seen so far:

[image loading]

and

That's just straight fun. Bonus cool with + Show Spoiler +

Orpheos

United States1663 Posts

September 20 2011 20:56 GMT

#1237

+ Show Spoiler +

On September 21 2011 05:46 slyboogie wrote:
Coolest Standard interaction I've seen so far:

[image loading]

and

That's just straight fun. Bonus cool with + Show Spoiler +

hahaha thats super cute. too bad dismember is in the format >_<. jeez wizard what a prank. print a 4 mana flagship creature DRIPPING with awesome(flavor? i guess only to magic veterans) and then also print a one mana answer that every color can play. herpderp

Judicator

United States7270 Posts

September 20 2011 21:07 GMT

#1238

I like how they have tried everything to bring back mono black, only to have it fall short because of dismember and squadron hawk.

Anyways, I was play-testing the Puresteel lists post rotation now that the full spoilers are out. UW works better than WB, Trinket Mage is a ghetto Stoneforge in that deck, fetches a lot of nice cards pre-and post-board.

Has anyone tested the mono Blue lists?

deth2munkies

United States4051 Posts

September 20 2011 21:08 GMT

#1239

I don't understand why they banned Ponder...I get Preordain, but not BOTH. Seems really excessive. If they wanted to get rid of combo, just ban keyword "STORM" then it's fine.

Judicator

United States7270 Posts

September 20 2011 21:11 GMT

#1240

On September 21 2011 06:08 deth2munkies wrote:
I don't understand why they banned Ponder...I get Preordain, but not BOTH. Seems really excessive. If they wanted to get rid of combo, just ban keyword "STORM" then it's fine.

? Not every combo is Storm-based...