EPTTorchlight II - Page 21
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pileopoop
Canada317 Posts
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On September 19 2012 07:58 pileopoop wrote: I wish there was a good reason to play on Elite rather than "for fun" What other reason is there for playing games? | ||
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seRapH
United States9827 Posts
On September 19 2012 08:02 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: What other reason is there for playing games? For bitches | ||
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Vallelol
Germany1046 Posts
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
i love you On September 19 2012 09:16 Vallelol wrote: Will the game be available 0:00 CET on the 20th? Any informations? well from my intuition youll probably have to wait a couple hours | ||
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Yacobs
United States846 Posts
On September 19 2012 08:02 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: What other reason is there for playing games? Seriously. Sounds like pileopoop needs a new hobby. | ||
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johnmac12
Bangladesh28 Posts
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Silidons
United States2813 Posts
On September 19 2012 16:02 johnmac12 wrote: WOW....really awesome game. i have a question that is this free? $20..and it's MOD-ABLE! | ||
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Shizuru~
Malaysia1676 Posts
On September 19 2012 03:07 ahappystar wrote: If anyone is interested you can download the full soundtrack from Runic for free http://www.torchlight2game.com/news/2012/09/18/the-torchlight-ii-soundtrack/ The soundtracks are spectacular compared to D3.... was pretty disappointed with D3 soundtrack, D1/D2 had such great memorable music that the third one was such a let down... | ||
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paralleluniverse
4065 Posts
TL2 will have no longevity because it has no endgame. It's apparent from Runic's various updates that development time has been spent almost entirely on level up content instead of endgame content. That's over 2 years making content which will be beaten in 24 hours, with virtually no system to support the game over the long run. Despite the fact that virtually all playtime will inevitably be spent in endgame, it's hardly ever mentioned. In fact, we've only recently learned that it will just consist of a room of random maps and the level up content wrapping around itself. Basically, endgame has gotten the shaft and nowhere near the attention it requires. There's no economy, no fair PvP, just more of the same. What's the point of this grind? To farm items and build the best character? But, mods allow any item to be created out of thin air, so why grind for items? In fact, there's even no point in having better items than other people, since items can be hacked into the game, meaning that there will be no economy and no way to feel accomplished for having better gear than someone else. People complain that legendary items in D3 (at release) were boring, too rare, and bad. In TL2, they are not boring, not that rare, and not bad, so maybe the accomplishment is meant to come from seeing good items legitimately drop. But what's the point of this considering that the game is easy enough to beat and the only use for items is to help you grind some more in this shallow endgame. Are they for PvP? It's a day from launch and we don't even have an updated official word on whether there is PvP. Not that it matters, because anyone can just mod the best items on their character, making PvP pointless. Most of the good work in creating interesting and fun items in TL2 is wasted on the fact that there is no economy and no reason to play the game because of items. In fact, there's no reason to play the endgame at all, it's basically the same as the level up content, it's a grind so that you can grind some more. WC3 maintains longevity through having a competitive ladder. WoW maintains longevity by constantly patching in new content. D2 maintains longevity by having closed servers with a functioning economy and PvP competition. TL2 will maintain longevity through... nothing, because TL2 cannot do any of the above since it legalizes cheating. You beat the game, maybe you feel like beating it again once more for fun, then you get bored of the same old thing and stop playing. There's no point in trying to get better gear, no point in competing, and ultimately no point in playing. For longevity, there needs to be a reason for people to keep playing, like an economy or a fair playing field that allows people to compete, and this requires a closed server. The hypocrisy of these forums on the issue of closed servers is breathtaking. On one hand people beg for a TL MMO, while on the other hand, they fight and demonize the idea of closed servers as if it threatens their fun. Yet there's no serious MMO that does not have a closed server. This isn't the only example, this forum also praises TL2 for not dropping better items in elite because it makes the game harder, while criticizing D3's inferno mode (at release) for being too hard and not dropping enough items to be rewarding. So there are many incoherent and fanboyish arguments on these forums, particularly against closed servers. Since closed servers can't stop cheating, it is argued that they're a complete failure. So the solution is to let everyone cheat with mods? Since it's impossible to stop all crime, we should stop trying and just live in a lawless state? But hey, we can kick people who we accuse of modding and we can join forum guilds and play with only real life friends. That will magically solve everything without a need for closed servers, right? Is it gonna make a functioning economy? Is it gonna magically add an endgame? Is it gonna make PvP competitive? No, but it will reduce community and increase playing like a loner on the internet. Stranger danger. Despite in-built mod detection, there's still nothing to stop people from trading modded items to non-modded characters or to mod preexisting items on their character, and so cheating will be rampant just like it was on D2 open B.net where virtually every single player is a cheater. Mods don't extend longevity for RPGs, it kills it. Far from providing a continuing stream of fun and fresh content, mods are instead often imbalanced and amateur. Mods like Counter-Strike and DotA are one in a million and they are only fair because everyone must start over each game. Any mod for TL2 not of this sort will ultimately be as pointless as the game, in the sense that once you've beaten it, there's no point in playing again. I truly do appreciate all the effort Runic have put into this game. I've played during the beta and I've watched interviews, so I know for a fact that the developers genuinely and passionately care about the game. But allowing modding without having a closed server, and having no compelling endgame is a catastrophic error. There will be no longevity. TL2 has the potential to be a great and lasting game, but only if there is a closed server environment that allows for an endgame. It is clear from their statements that Runic neither have the will nor the manpower to set up closed servers, but unless this is corrected, TL2 really is a game that's worth no more than $20, a game which is played once or twice, and then discarded, because there is nothing else to do. And the reason I'm writing is to change this. Ultimately, this would be a pointless game. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
If you don't enjoy playing the game just don't play it. It is really that simple. Every game doesn't need to last forever. Every game doesn't need to be balanced. You don't need to have a competitive environment to enjoy a game. You hear all the same bullshit about elder scrolls. If you don't like it don't play it. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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tomatriedes
New Zealand5356 Posts
On September 19 2012 23:52 paralleluniverse wrote: I made a post on the TL2 forums: http://forums.runicgames.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=33474 If you're one of those people who cares so much about economy and balance why don't you play Diablo 3 instead? | ||
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
On September 20 2012 00:27 TheYango wrote: I can sort of get where paralleluniverse is coming from, but when did people's sense of entitlement reach the point of "no longevity/infinite replayability = not worth more than $20?" AND be a pointless game apparently. I guess that means that 99 % of all games are pointless. | ||
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solidbebe
Netherlands4921 Posts
On September 20 2012 00:36 nihlon wrote: AND be a pointless game apparently. I guess that means that 99 % of all games are pointless. Nah it seems to only apply to these hack and slash games like diablo and torchlight. | ||
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NicolBolas
United States1388 Posts
On September 19 2012 23:52 paralleluniverse wrote: I made a post on the TL2 forums: http://forums.runicgames.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=33474 OK, it's important to understand that I've gone on record as stating that I dislike Torchlight and probably action-RPGs in general. And even I think your argument is full of crap. Visa vis: Despite the fact that virtually all playtime will inevitably be spent in endgame, it's hardly ever mentioned. In fact, we've only recently learned that it will just consist of a room of random maps and the level up content wrapping around itself. Basically, endgame has gotten the shaft and nowhere near the attention it requires. There's no economy, no fair PvP, just more of the same. What's the point of this grind? Has it occurred to you that the de-emphasis of "endgame" content was intensional? That because the endgame content is weak, "virtually all playtime" will not "inevitably be spent in endgame"? Maybe that's the point: to spend time on actual content which can be enjoyed in a variety of ways, rather than focusing on grinding random items just to get high-end gear to grind more random items. Not all Action-RPGs need to work exactly like Diablo 2. If people stop playing the game regularly after a while... why is that a bad thing? The hypocrisy of these forums on the issue of closed servers is breathtaking. On one hand people beg for a TL MMO, while on the other hand, they fight and demonize the idea of closed servers as if it threatens their fun. It's crazy. It's almost like... action RPGs and MMO-RPGs are completely different genres with completely different needs or something. Is it so difficult to understand that people don't want closed servers with their A-RPG, but wouldn't mind with a full-fledged MMO? Mods don't extend longevity for RPGs, it kills it. Far from providing a continuing stream of fun and fresh content, mods are instead often imbalanced and amateur. Mods like Counter-Strike and DotA are one in a million and they are only fair because everyone must start over each game. Any mod for TL2 not of this sort will ultimately be as pointless as the game, in the sense that once you've beaten it, there's no point in playing again. Translation: all mods are pointless. Except for the ones that aren't. Thus, we should do away with all mods. I'm not seeing the logical consequence here. You admit that there are good mods (rare though they may be), yet you still claim that mods aren't going to improve the game's longevity. Also, you dismiss something very important: not everyone agrees on what is "imbalanced and amateur". What's imbalanced to you may be very fun to someone else. What's amateur to you may be good enough to have an enjoyable time for someone else. Just because a mod isn't hugely popular and successful doesn't mean that someone won't have a good time with it. For that someone, the mod helped extend the life of the game. Mission accomplished. It's important to note this: the ability to mod Torchlight 2 (and possibly play other people's mods) is perhaps the only thing that interests me about the game. And considering it's relative inexpense, they may well make a sale just on that. Depending on how mod-able it is. Ultimately, this would be a pointless game. So a game is "pointless" if it actually runs out of content. If it doesn't have an "endgame", "economy" and so forth, such that some people will want to play the same character for months or years, then it's pointless. Look, I recognize that longevity is not a bad thing. But a game isn't pointless just because it's longevity is not as high as it could be. Portal and Portal 2 are exceedingly short and have little longevity, but they're still a hell of a lot more fun than 90% of the 40+ hour grind-fests I've ever played. | ||
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
On September 19 2012 23:52 paralleluniverse wrote: + Show Spoiler + I made a post on the TL2 forums: http://forums.runicgames.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=33474 TL2 will have no longevity because it has no endgame. It's apparent from Runic's various updates that development time has been spent almost entirely on level up content instead of endgame content. That's over 2 years making content which will be beaten in 24 hours, with virtually no system to support the game over the long run. Despite the fact that virtually all playtime will inevitably be spent in endgame, it's hardly ever mentioned. In fact, we've only recently learned that it will just consist of a room of random maps and the level up content wrapping around itself. Basically, endgame has gotten the shaft and nowhere near the attention it requires. There's no economy, no fair PvP, just more of the same. What's the point of this grind? To farm items and build the best character? But, mods allow any item to be created out of thin air, so why grind for items? In fact, there's even no point in having better items than other people, since items can be hacked into the game, meaning that there will be no economy and no way to feel accomplished for having better gear than someone else. People complain that legendary items in D3 (at release) were boring, too rare, and bad. In TL2, they are not boring, not that rare, and not bad, so maybe the accomplishment is meant to come from seeing good items legitimately drop. But what's the point of this considering that the game is easy enough to beat and the only use for items is to help you grind some more in this shallow endgame. Are they for PvP? It's a day from launch and we don't even have an updated official word on whether there is PvP. Not that it matters, because anyone can just mod the best items on their character, making PvP pointless. Most of the good work in creating interesting and fun items in TL2 is wasted on the fact that there is no economy and no reason to play the game because of items. In fact, there's no reason to play the endgame at all, it's basically the same as the level up content, it's a grind so that you can grind some more. WC3 maintains longevity through having a competitive ladder. WoW maintains longevity by constantly patching in new content. D2 maintains longevity by having closed servers with a functioning economy and PvP competition. TL2 will maintain longevity through... nothing, because TL2 cannot do any of the above since it legalizes cheating. You beat the game, maybe you feel like beating it again once more for fun, then you get bored of the same old thing and stop playing. There's no point in trying to get better gear, no point in competing, and ultimately no point in playing. For longevity, there needs to be a reason for people to keep playing, like an economy or a fair playing field that allows people to compete, and this requires a closed server. The hypocrisy of these forums on the issue of closed servers is breathtaking. On one hand people beg for a TL MMO, while on the other hand, they fight and demonize the idea of closed servers as if it threatens their fun. Yet there's no serious MMO that does not have a closed server. This isn't the only example, this forum also praises TL2 for not dropping better items in elite because it makes the game harder, while criticizing D3's inferno mode (at release) for being too hard and not dropping enough items to be rewarding. So there are many incoherent and fanboyish arguments on these forums, particularly against closed servers. Since closed servers can't stop cheating, it is argued that they're a complete failure. So the solution is to let everyone cheat with mods? Since it's impossible to stop all crime, we should stop trying and just live in a lawless state? But hey, we can kick people who we accuse of modding and we can join forum guilds and play with only real life friends. That will magically solve everything without a need for closed servers, right? Is it gonna make a functioning economy? Is it gonna magically add an endgame? Is it gonna make PvP competitive? No, but it will reduce community and increase playing like a loner on the internet. Stranger danger. Despite in-built mod detection, there's still nothing to stop people from trading modded items to non-modded characters or to mod preexisting items on their character, and so cheating will be rampant just like it was on D2 open B.net where virtually every single player is a cheater. Mods don't extend longevity for RPGs, it kills it. Far from providing a continuing stream of fun and fresh content, mods are instead often imbalanced and amateur. Mods like Counter-Strike and DotA are one in a million and they are only fair because everyone must start over each game. Any mod for TL2 not of this sort will ultimately be as pointless as the game, in the sense that once you've beaten it, there's no point in playing again. I truly do appreciate all the effort Runic have put into this game. I've played during the beta and I've watched interviews, so I know for a fact that the developers genuinely and passionately care about the game. But allowing modding without having a closed server, and having no compelling endgame is a catastrophic error. There will be no longevity. TL2 has the potential to be a great and lasting game, but only if there is a closed server environment that allows for an endgame. It is clear from their statements that Runic neither have the will nor the manpower to set up closed servers, but unless this is corrected, TL2 really is a game that's worth no more than $20, a game which is played once or twice, and then discarded, because there is nothing else to do. And the reason I'm writing is to change this. Ultimately, this would be a pointless game. Please dont bring bullshit to an ARPG (aka real arpg games notably like Diablo1 and 2) game thread. You know, just go back to WoW if you want but please don't bring shit to this new (amazing) dungeon crawler game. And oh, diablo3 seems like the perfect game for you. | ||
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y0su
Finland7871 Posts
Also, Runic might be able to add to the game after they generate some revenue with the game going live - and who knows what will be available with mods. | ||
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antilyon
Brazil2546 Posts
On September 19 2012 23:52 paralleluniverse wrote: I made a post on the TL2 forums: http://forums.runicgames.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=33474 Seriously dude, I understood why you think Torchlight II won't have a endgame, but everything you are asking for is D3 so why not just play D3 instead? | ||
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Leth0
856 Posts
Nobody ever started talking about "endgame" until the rabid wow fanbase started saturating other game communities. The "Endgame" as people love to coin it, IMO is providing the player base with enough fun to... -Enjoy the killing -Enjoy the leveling -Enjoy the class / skill diversity -Enjoy the hunt for gear / diversity -Enjoy the player vs player...Ect ect. The "endgame' is just making a game fun enought that people want to spend time playing it. I played D2 for a while and never heard anyone throw around the term "endgame", maybe it was just the group of players that I played with, but we always found ourselves saying " I want to try out XXX class, or YYY build" or maybe "I want to farm for some XXX gear from YYY boss" , or perhaps the "I want to pvp with XXX class , or FFA with some friends of mine" This "endgame" coin phrase is such nonsense. The "Endgame" is just "the game". So can we stop with that please. D3 failed (on a lot of levels) but on one part because it tried so desperately hard to have this so called "end game" and all they ended up doing was throwing in a 4th untested, unbalanced difficulty that only serves to send people to the RMAH. | ||
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