Citing their poor results in the Proleague, SKT T1 has asked its main players to focus on only one individual league.
This unprecedented move comes on the heels of SKT's latest loss, dropping them 2-5 and 10th place (out of 11).
SKT's strongest players were asked to choose between either the MSL or OSL. As a result,
Midas (Seeded 3rd for next OSL) and GoRush (Seeded 5th for next OSL) will not attend the MSL preliminaries on 11/14.
Canata is currently qualified for the next MSL, plus he is seeded for the upcoming Ongamenet Dual Tournament. It is yet unclear what his choice will be, but it looks like he will give up his Dual Tournament spot.
Kingdom is scheduled to face Iris in the MBCgame Survivor League this Thursday. He will not participate in the OSL prelims.
iloveoov, IntoTheRainbow, and Rumble are not currently involved in any leagues. They were given the choice to pick, and all three have chosen to attend the OSL prelims and forfeit their MSL prelim spots.
This policy does not extend to SKT's lesser players. Only the gamers mentioned above have been affected.
SKT's team manager has notified both Ongamenet and MBCgame with their decision.
Naturally, this subject is a point of debate for the fans, with many sides of the issue. In general, SKT is coming under fire for this radical team policy.
Meanwhile, Boxer has forfeited both the OSL and MSL to try to qualify for the ROK military - I know, I know, I'm a regular comedian. You're a great crowd.
they do play alot of leagues... i think it could be good.. they get overflowed with lots of games all the time.. sometimes i think too much, but then again, thats what they get paid to do.. so..*shrugs*
This is going a bit overboard isn't it? I don't think it is a good way of solving their problem. I wonder how the players themselves feel about this, and I'm also interested to see the fan reactions over there
The SKT players not in individual leagues (like ILoveOOv) aren't doing well either. It's not a matter of the individual leagues being played, and it is foolish to think so.
There's obviously something more fundamental that is wrong within their team, this will not solve that.
EDIT: Really just looking at the other teams too you know how wrong this is. Look at CJ for example.
Finally, remember that players get appearance fees and the like for attending tournaments, even if they don't do well. They are basically asking their team members to give up tons of potential money with no compensation.
On November 13 2006 18:34 DTDominion wrote: Honesty this move is bullshit.
There, I said it.
The SKT players not in individual leagues (like ILoveOOv) aren't doing well either. It's not a matter of the individual leagues being played, and it is foolish to think so.
There's obviously something more fundamental that is wrong within their team, this will not solve that.
You know, if you get more shots at winning, you'll win more often, even if your win percentage goes slightly down. Take the SKT1 current plan and just imagine if all the players retained their spots, but Midas only practiced for OSL, GoRush only practiced for OSL, etc--they have the exact mindset as if they were only playing in one league except they keep their crack at the other league, just for kicks (and extremely possible wins). It's not like they don't have a chance in MSL prelims even if they get minimal practice. And if you want to win more, there's a better way to distribute your focus and practice time anyway. -_-;;
If you're in only one league, then you feel a lot of pressure to win that league's games. Especially because some manager is expecting you to win it because of his retarded decision.
The only benefits are not having to learn as many maps (but honestly, many maps are in common in Proleague/OSL/MSL, and it's not like the guys don't already know most of the maps, and it's not like they don't have enough hours in a day to practice all of the new ones; and getting the players pissed off. On the off chance that their performance isn't just a fluke and an indication that -yes, if your players have a 55% chance of winning (around, lower maybe from new talent), then you'll get losing seasons sometimes-, then maybe this is some motivation.
edit: Assuming that SKT1 wants to win as much as possible...less opportunities to play means less opportunities to win, which is really really bad. Practicing only for Proleague and one Starleague and but also showing up to the other Starleague prelims > playing only in Proleague and Starleague, because even with minimal practice, you have a reasonable and significant chance of winning. Balanced practicing for all three leagues (what people normally do) > practicing only for Proleague and one Starleague and but also showing up to the other Starleague prelims because of the law of diminishing returns on time spent practicing (e.g. 7, 7, 0 less good than 5, 5, 4).
That's besides the issues of the players' feelings and reduced advertising time from having their players (who display the SKT name/logo) play less often.
I think it's mostly that bad change/decisions is considered better than than lack of change when results aren't showing. But factors (most notably luck in such an even playing field) contributing to bad results are often out of your control.
Myrmidon makes a good point. Just because you're in a league doesn't mean you have to practice for it, even though a basic level of practice is still necessary to learn the maps and such.
if all a team's good players are practicing for both msl and osl, then there is no one but lesser players to practice for the proleague. proleague is an important TEAM league, so i can imagine that the team's coaches or managers would want to put a little more focus in the proleague, especially after the poor performance in this one show a necessity for it
On November 13 2006 18:34 DTDominion wrote: Honesty this move is bullshit.
There, I said it.
The SKT players not in individual leagues (like ILoveOOv) aren't doing well either. It's not a matter of the individual leagues being played, and it is foolish to think so.
There's obviously something more fundamental that is wrong within their team, this will not solve that.
You mean the fact that they are "missing" BoXeR ?
I think this is a really good point actually. Has anyone else read the recent Sense of Star about Boxer ? It's amazing how much that man has accomplished and I wouldnt' be too surprised to see that the was the lynchpin for the team. Kingdom has HUGE shows to fill.
SOMETHING had to change. No fucking way a team with that talent and money should EVER go 2-5 and drop to second to last. Almost as bad as what KTF did.
I think SKT T1 is only doing this because they need to explain this huge slump somehow. So they're just blaming the players' busy schedule. Maybe the real reason is that Boxer's out (I know he was a huge support for Iloveoov), maybe the players' schedules are actually too jam packed, nobody knows. But they have to do something, and this is what they chose to do. 2-5 and 2nd last in the league? That really is unacceptable for T1.
fairly resonable move, rarely players own up msl and osl at the same time...so it shouldnt hurt too bad...
but it could be limiting to the good players as they may get stuck in a group of death in the tornament they chose and then lose both opportunities to win.. thats my only concern with it...
because i mean, if u make it to group stage of M/OSL or RO8 it theoretically shouldnt impair tooo much on PL (as the maps are the same, and u really cant be 100% sure of what opponent ur going to face on each map). and its unlikely that ull get past BOTH RO8's and so ull only have to focus on one league either way... sometimes they cant even pass survivor/dual because of a bad day or sumthing.. again a limiting factor'
I'd like to know how the players feel about this rule.
If they are unhappy about it, then it is guaranteed to fail. But if they are eager to participate, then it has a good chance of success.
I can see the merits behind the idea. People who overwork themselves end up losing motivation and, in turn, performing poorly: it's a common phenomenon. I hope the players will receive free time in exchange for giving up their league spots, though, otherwise this move may have little to no benefit.
As DTDominion mentioned, we don't know whether overworked players is the problem. But I think we should wait to hear what the players themselves have to say before coming to any conclusions.
Since SKT needs to promote itself, I doubt pissing off the fans and the second biggest tournament is the way to go. Winning a few more games isn't worth that.
As mentioned before, it's going to be interesting what the players truly think of this (without managers breathing down their necks). And also what MBC Game is to make out of this. I know I wouldn't be too happy if I was them.
I hope this is not going to be some trend that other teams will follow. Doesn't do the leagues justice in any way.
imo, this is harsh but will be useful. more free times + more determination. this will help at least midas, this guy is good but sometimes he shows up with black eyes and fucked up
yeah they're probably pissing off their players, fans, and leagues.
i can see why they'd want to do something about their poor proleague performance, but i don't think that was the answer. instead, work on setting up their culture and rewards system to encourage proleague performance/practise. i hope other teams (esp. KTF) don't follow suit.
This seems like a team on the brink of failure trying to blame non-factors for their poor performance.
They should get their asses practicing like the other teams, which have players doing well in both individual and team leagues. Seems like the players get "comfortable" when they graduate off of the upandcomer teams like the old SumaGO, and move on to a nice salary and better clothes in the "star studded" teams.
That's why everyone starts to suck when they join KTF.
This is pretty shocking news. The move seems so irrational. If you mess up or you draw very hard groups / opponents, then you've got a strong possiblity of being finished just like that. In addition, when you're getting paid large sums of money to play a game like the top SKT guys are, you would think you would be able to find the time to practice for two-three games a week at the busiest of times. Rarely does a player get to the semi-finals of two leagues at once, so once it gets to that higher level of best-of series, players naturally end up focusing on it anyway.
I can only think of justifying this by concentration on proleague. Remember when Boxer was captain, he said the team was concentrating very very hard on proleague and we remember those results. SKT1 dominated every team constantly. Maybe they are trying to revive that team atmosphere... i dunno.
Initial reaction is to say "WTF TAHTS RETARDED", but actually, I think a 'shake up' was in order; this was understandable, stupid, but understandable, I'd like to see how it works out.
WTF, that is lame. Like other top teams aren`t busy with schedule. What a load of crap. There should be rules to regulate situations like this. IMO it is disrespectful towards msl starleague. SKT won proleague few times, and what they weren`t busy then? Obviously, they are looking for excuse and they have found it. I hope they will get raped in star league and punished by KeSpa.
I don't think we should raise pitchforks against SKT1 just yet ... Keep in mind, dropping from first to almost LAST in one swoop is a very very very huge blow for how much you're paying your main players!
On November 14 2006 09:18 KissBlade wrote: I don't think we should raise pitchforks against SKT1 just yet ... Keep in mind, dropping from first to almost LAST in one swoop is a very very very huge blow for how much you're paying your main players!
Agreed; sometimes a shake-up, even if unrelated, does well to create motivation and drive... I'm personally going to reserve judgement until I see how this works out.
That sounds pretty lame, but I doubt they're gonna do this all the time. I don't think it's to find an excuse to their poor performance either. They've won 4 proleague finals while they weren't applying such a policy. I rather see this as a kind of punishment to the players. There's a possibility that they may have lost a bit of motivation towards proleague after winning those 4 finals in a row, and that kind of radical decision might actually have a good impact.
It won't change things all that much as well: T1 will have 2, maybe 3 (with In_Dove) players qualified for MSL, and more of them would most likely mean games between teammates.
I mean I can see where the coaches are coming from on this topic, but imo, only playing in one 'SL is wasting a chance to do well/get more practice with people outside your team. The players could really just focus on one of them, and still probably do pretty well in the other. Maybe not top 3 in the other 'SL, but Im sure oov could get in top 10-15 without practicing intensely for that specific one.
Really, all I see it is wasting an opportunity to get some good practice/a possible chance at winning.
As a fan, I want to see Oov, Kingdom and Midas & co in both individual leagues. If they are missing an individual league because they lost, I have to accept it. But I wont accept the fact hat they are missing a league because their team wants to punish them for losing one or two games per month in PL. (The didnt lose on purpose, for sure)
As a fan, the only possibilities I have are supporting them even more in their individual leagues, but stop supporting the team. This is the only way their sponsor SK Telecom will see that they are disapponiting the fans with their behavior and that fact of being a sponsor of such beloved players generates more popularity than winning every PL.
Of course this doenst apply to me, as I am non-kor. Only korean fans will have the power to be heard.
after reading this i tend to beleive this is a 'punishment' to the players rather than an excused (though it still can be seen like that). Basically, they are giving their players less chances to show their worth and putting more pressure on results on the leagues the players are focusing. In my ignorance of korean culture, it seems they will apply more discipline to each player's personal goals in which in turn he should show more eagerness to achieve it, which i think it is usually seen as a good thing.
Ive always wondered this in the past, people bitch about progamers not having enough time or whatever, yet you have them "practicing" for 10 different things. I mean I think they should try to play in the other leagues and then if they get far prepare more, but if they feel liek practicing for 1 league specifically will help well more power to them. Its obvious shit like that goes down in other teams, I mean when one person is going to play in a final and a semifinal of anotehr league, rarely do they win both of the games, they usually suck ass in the semi final or final of t he "less" important league and do alot better in the "important" one.
SKT1 has more devious motives, according to what I gather from the Korean pro-gaming community.
SK Telecom holds a powerful position in the E-sports committee, and has always wanted to expand the Pro League and reduce the importance of singles tournaments. MBCGame has stated that they view the claim that SKT1 wishes to fix their horrid pro league record as a convenient excuse to target and weaken the MBCGame survivor league by withdrawing their star players. MBCGame considers the survivor league to be an important part of a healthy singles competition, as the required 'second division' compared to the MSL 'first division.'
On November 15 2006 10:08 Waxangel wrote: SKT1 has more devious motives, according to what I gather from the Korean pro-gaming community.
SK Telecom holds a powerful position in the E-sports committee, and has always wanted to expand the Pro League and reduce the importance of singles tournaments. MBCGame has stated that they view the claim that SKT1 wishes to fix their horrid pro league record as a convenient excuse to target and weaken the MBCGame survivor league by withdrawing their star players. MBCGame considers the survivor league to be an important part of a healthy singles competition, as the required 'second division' compared to the MSL 'first division.'
Thats gay. Starcraft is inherently a 1v1 sport; its not a team sport like baseball or basketball and they can't make it as such. Plus all the legends of the past and the best moments in SC have been built from the individual Starleagues. I really hope they don't succeed with what they are trying to do.
On November 15 2006 12:32 akamufu wrote: whats the difference between the two tournaments?
well each tournament has different maps and such, so players would only have to work on the timing and strats of one set of maps, improving thier chances of winning on them
I think that if you think about this move, it's actually decently smart. Time spent "practicing" as a pro isn't just mass gaming - it's mass gaming against a specific matchup on a specific map, because you know who you'll be playing in advance. This allows you to study their replays, see their mistakes, and develop a gameplan. It's why you see these amazing timing rushes and unorthodox builds that decimate an opponent's style. Giving more time to prepare for one matchup isn't the worst decision they've made.
well maybe individual players can get sponsorships for themselves? it has to do with how pro gaming developed initially, but if they can get decent sponsorships without teams, and maybe break the team based monopoly on leagues, the players could do something. With the current system it looks like some sort of pre-labor deal baseball arrangement with no player powers.
On November 16 2006 04:37 DTDominion wrote: Ultimately a move towards more team based pro StarCraft will decrease the importance of the draw individual players have an kill the sport.
How did you come up with this theory? Hasn't the move towards team based SC like... made sponsorships, created TV channels, increased awareness, increased skill levels, and basically made SC into Korea's national sport?
That's the initial development, but as SC becomes bigger the players, maybe the big name players first, can have more leverage, and gain some independence from teams. Since it is an individual sport i dont think molding everything into team play is doing fans any service
On November 16 2006 04:37 DTDominion wrote: Ultimately a move towards more team based pro StarCraft will decrease the importance of the draw individual players have an kill the sport.
How did you come up with this theory? Hasn't the move towards team based SC like... made sponsorships, created TV channels, increased awareness, increased skill levels, and basically made SC into Korea's national sport?
The reason the rise of pro league has been such a boon to pro gaming is because as of right now it's directly related to the players who have made reputations as individual tournament players. If a player becomes big in pro league it's exciting because he isn't big in 1v1 tournaments and therefore that method of proving himself is interesting. When we see a player who is big in 1v1 tournaments play in proleague it's interesting because it's a new area for him to prove himself in.
Proleague by itself is stale. Who cares about the players in it if all we are seeing if it's just bodies on a team being strategically chosen to play in the optimal game slots.
EPT
