• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:05
CEST 18:05
KST 01:05
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun9[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists21[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25Maestros of the Game 2 announced92026 GSL Tour plans announced15Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid25
StarCraft 2
General
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool MaNa leaves Team Liquid Maestros of the Game 2 announced
Tourneys
SC2 INu's Battles#15 <BO.9 2Matches> GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) WardiTV Spring Cup RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event SEL Masters #6 - Solar vs Classic (SC: Evo)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss
Brood War
General
ASL21 General Discussion [TOOL] Starcraft Chat Translator JaeDong's ASL S21 Ro16 Post-Review Missed out on ASL tickets - what are my options? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [ASL21] Ro8 Day 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Korean KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Daigo vs Menard Best of 10 Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Diablo IV
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread 3D technology/software discussion Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Sexual Health Of Gamers
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2504 users

Korean Music Discussion - Page 1034

Forum Index > Media & Entertainment
Post a Reply
Prev 1 1032 1033 1034 1035 1036 5787 Next
To ensure this thread won't be closed, you must adhere to several a number of simple rules;
  • Please use spoilers when quoting a post with pictures and/or videos.
  • When posting large quantities of media (pictures or videos), please begin spoilering after the first piece. Grouping related videos in the same spoilers & labeling is recommended.
  • No reposting of old material unless justified
  • Posting any material with little or no relevent discussion accompanying it
  • No passion-induced flaming of each other because 'x said y sucked' etc.
  • Keep the expression hate of music individuals/groups to a minimal level
  • No 'pagetopping' in any form whatsoever, as it constitutes spam equal to posts similar to 'first'.
  • No vulgar fan fics or wet dream stories. It is creepy, weird, and it dehumanizes the people who you are here to celebrate/discuss.
  • Normal posting standards that you find throughout the rest of the site still apply and will be enforced more strictly from here forward (2012/03/11)

Due to the poor nature of this thread in the past, temporary two-day bans will occur more than often if people slip up.
Milkis
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
5003 Posts
January 16 2011 16:00 GMT
#20661
On January 17 2011 00:40 Lonyo wrote:
http://livekpop.com/2010/11/b2st’s-kikwang-reveals-his-annual-income.html

http://kpoptoday.com/kpop-news/2011/01/4039-news-singer-ius-earnings-for-the-year-2010.htm

http://www.allkpop.com/2009/12/tvxq_top_earnings_in_korea_for_2009


Note that the latter two are like, revenue though -- the question is "How much do they get after paying everyone else"
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17281 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-16 18:38:23
January 16 2011 18:37 GMT
#20662
Ugh, does this really need to be spelled out for the blind fanboys/fangirls?

The larger your group, the less you make, especially if you aren't the lead vocal. This goes doubly if your group is only of average or below average popularity, like MBLAQ/Infinite/Rainbow/etc. Solo artists of equal popularity make more because (shocker) they don't split income with 4-6-8 other people.

People make more $$ by acting in dramas, appearing on shows (appearance fees), and doing endorsements.

TVXQ's popularity pretty much dwarfed everything in SK, which is why they made so much more than other groups. However the artists themselves don't make a significant cut (as shown by TVXQ's lawsuit). Why? Because companies give you the choice of "sign this or f*** off" when you're a trainee. You don't get a choice. With SM, you either sign to a 10+ year contract at a pittance or you don't debut. What leverage do you think they have to get a better deal?

If you think IU's popularity hasn't skyrocketed, you're completely delusional. She's won on all the music shows (including her first ever Mutizen a few weeks ago), she's on Dream High and even stirred up rumors of them rewriting the plot to give her a larger role, and she was on other variety shows (including, I believe, Heroes and Idol Athletics), to much acclaim.
twitch.tv/cratonz
Tippany
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States765 Posts
January 16 2011 19:45 GMT
#20663
I imagine the industry as being similar to how the US pop/doo-wop industry was in the '60s. I picture the Brill Building/Phil Spector just churning artists in and out while the artists never see much of the profit.
Real action, my dream.
DystopiaX
Profile Joined October 2010
United States16236 Posts
January 16 2011 20:25 GMT
#20664
On January 17 2011 03:37 Craton wrote:
Ugh, does this really need to be spelled out for the blind fanboys/fangirls?

The larger your group, the less you make, especially if you aren't the lead vocal. This goes doubly if your group is only of average or below average popularity, like MBLAQ/Infinite/Rainbow/etc. Solo artists of equal popularity make more because (shocker) they don't split income with 4-6-8 other people.

People make more $$ by acting in dramas, appearing on shows (appearance fees), and doing endorsements.

TVXQ's popularity pretty much dwarfed everything in SK, which is why they made so much more than other groups. However the artists themselves don't make a significant cut (as shown by TVXQ's lawsuit). Why? Because companies give you the choice of "sign this or f*** off" when you're a trainee. You don't get a choice. With SM, you either sign to a 10+ year contract at a pittance or you don't debut. What leverage do you think they have to get a better deal?

If you think IU's popularity hasn't skyrocketed, you're completely delusional. She's won on all the music shows (including her first ever Mutizen a few weeks ago), she's on Dream High and even stirred up rumors of them rewriting the plot to give her a larger role, and she was on other variety shows (including, I believe, Heroes and Idol Athletics), to much acclaim.

I agree with everything you said, but is it really the lead vocal that makes the most money? The only reason I think this is questionable is because oftentimes the most popular member (and therefore the member who'll make the most in individual endorsements, appears the most on variety shows, etc.) is often not the lead vocal (Ji Eun is not the most popular in Secret, Luna not the most popular in f(x), etc.), so wouldn't it be the most popular/"visual" members that make the most?
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-16 20:34:47
January 16 2011 20:29 GMT
#20665
Lead vocals are core to a group, if you have neither vocals nor looks or appeal then I suppose you make less then the rest. However I suppose alot of groups just divide the money equally among members(that is from sales) with the company getting like 99% of it. Variety shows and CF's is where the money is, but I don't even know if they get any money from that really. The amount of CF's you get is based upon your popularity, the more CF's and Variety shows you go on, the more money you can make individually from the group.
WriterXiao8~~
gulati
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States2241 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-16 20:57:31
January 16 2011 20:57 GMT
#20666
[image loading]
(hyosung)
fucking love her<33
C r u m b l i n g
Katsuge
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore7730 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-17 01:53:15
January 17 2011 01:52 GMT
#20667
wait..IU & her popularity?



and the fact that allkpop is full of IU related posts recently should be a damn clear sign...
김태연 | 정은지 | 아이유 |  한효주 | 이민정 <3 -|||- 소녀시대 에이핑크 사랑해!
T.O.P. *
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Hong Kong4685 Posts
January 17 2011 01:59 GMT
#20668
On January 17 2011 05:29 Kipsate wrote:
Lead vocals are core to a group, if you have neither vocals nor looks or appeal then I suppose you make less then the rest. However I suppose alot of groups just divide the money equally among members(that is from sales) with the company getting like 99% of it. Variety shows and CF's is where the money is, but I don't even know if they get any money from that really. The amount of CF's you get is based upon your popularity, the more CF's and Variety shows you go on, the more money you can make individually from the group.

Some groups divide CF, Drama money evenly among all the numbers. Some groups give all the CF, Drama money to the individual member. Of course in both cases, the management company takes 99% first.
Oracle comes in, Scvs go down, never a miscommunication.
sharky246
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
1197 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-17 03:00:33
January 17 2011 02:57 GMT
#20669
On January 17 2011 00:56 Hyaach wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2011 00:25 frodoguy wrote:
On January 17 2011 00:17 Hyaach wrote:
On January 17 2011 00:01 frodoguy wrote:
On January 16 2011 23:52 iwantsushi wrote:
On January 16 2011 17:47 T.O.P. wrote:
On January 16 2011 17:01 iwantsushi wrote:
On January 16 2011 14:59 GTR wrote:
you do realise the artist will get like, one cent? korea's treatment of idol musicians is downright slavery.

actually idols like IU, hara, GD , narsha are very very rich.

Please post sources if you're going to declare facts that seem outlandish to the general population.

i only mentioned they few who have said so themselves. the only thing confirmed is that gd drives around in a white bentley, i dont know how much that says about his financial situation, but people with imported sedans sound rich to me.

I doubt IU is rich, shes like the worst idol, in terms of popularity.


2 months ago.


The fact that you can get away with posting 2 words in this thread is what makes it sooooo great. Shes just currently shining right now because the girls from the big league are off to japan, concert in SEA and slumping. If your refering to money, GTR's comment is spot on, regardless of whether its SNSD or a non-idol like yozoh.



why so angry?
i was just replying to your post and its pretty spot on even with just 2 words and 1 number


Not angry. The fact is that a post can be useful if its a one-liner (or useless if its several paragraphs), but most mods don't understand that and think its a poor post if it doesn't have the quantity.

User was warned for this post
On January 03 2011 13:14 IdrA wrote: being high on the ladder doesnt get you any closer to your goal. Avoiding practice to protect your rating is absurd. If you want to be good go play 40 games a day and stop thinking about becoming a pro.
TuElite
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada2123 Posts
January 17 2011 02:59 GMT
#20670
[image loading]


damn gurl
Always Smile - Jung Nicole - Follow Nicole on Twitter @_911007 and me @TuElite
Candide
Profile Joined November 2010
456 Posts
January 17 2011 02:59 GMT
#20671


Younha ^^
kakaman
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States1576 Posts
January 17 2011 03:01 GMT
#20672


Sista got it going on!
Candide
Profile Joined November 2010
456 Posts
January 17 2011 03:14 GMT
#20673
just found this i think some of you gee gee haters will enjoy it. LOL
ace246
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia360 Posts
January 17 2011 03:19 GMT
#20674
On January 17 2011 05:29 Kipsate wrote:
Lead vocals are core to a group, if you have neither vocals nor looks or appeal then I suppose you make less then the rest. However I suppose alot of groups just divide the money equally among members(that is from sales) with the company getting like 99% of it. Variety shows and CF's is where the money is, but I don't even know if they get any money from that really. The amount of CF's you get is based upon your popularity, the more CF's and Variety shows you go on, the more money you can make individually from the group.


Thats not always the case where lead vocals are core to a group, they are more like an optional role which is viable and won't be much of a liability. SNSD is a good example, you can see how everyone is equal in that group, and when you try to decide which member is the best among the rest, you either end up with like 2 or 3, or you think they are all just as good.
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17281 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-17 05:53:08
January 17 2011 05:47 GMT
#20675
On January 17 2011 12:14 Candide wrote:
just found this i think some of you gee gee haters will enjoy it. LOL

That was (literally) posted in the second day of this thread's existence. Well, that one was actually posted later, but the original Younha covering Gee has been posted three times and this specific cover has been posted twice.

Please don't revert to December's episodes of reposting things for the nth time without first searching.

On January 17 2011 12:19 ace246 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2011 05:29 Kipsate wrote:
Lead vocals are core to a group, if you have neither vocals nor looks or appeal then I suppose you make less then the rest. However I suppose alot of groups just divide the money equally among members(that is from sales) with the company getting like 99% of it. Variety shows and CF's is where the money is, but I don't even know if they get any money from that really. The amount of CF's you get is based upon your popularity, the more CF's and Variety shows you go on, the more money you can make individually from the group.


Thats not always the case where lead vocals are core to a group, they are more like an optional role which is viable and won't be much of a liability. SNSD is a good example, you can see how everyone is equal in that group, and when you try to decide which member is the best among the rest, you either end up with like 2 or 3, or you think they are all just as good.

What are you talking about? Taeyeon is the clear lead vocal of SNSD followed by Seohyun and then Jessica (when her voice isn't cracking). These aren't arbitrary roles decided by fans; the groups themselves list positions for members. It's brought up by Sunhwa in an episode of IY. It is not uncommon for large groups to have 2 or 3 lead vocals.
twitch.tv/cratonz
ace246
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia360 Posts
January 17 2011 05:54 GMT
#20676
On January 17 2011 14:47 Craton wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2011 12:14 Candide wrote:
just found this i think some of you gee gee haters will enjoy it. LOL

That was (literally) posted in the second day of this thread's existence.

Please don't revert to December's episodes of reposting things for the nth time without first searching.

Show nested quote +
On January 17 2011 12:19 ace246 wrote:
On January 17 2011 05:29 Kipsate wrote:
Lead vocals are core to a group, if you have neither vocals nor looks or appeal then I suppose you make less then the rest. However I suppose alot of groups just divide the money equally among members(that is from sales) with the company getting like 99% of it. Variety shows and CF's is where the money is, but I don't even know if they get any money from that really. The amount of CF's you get is based upon your popularity, the more CF's and Variety shows you go on, the more money you can make individually from the group.


Thats not always the case where lead vocals are core to a group, they are more like an optional role which is viable and won't be much of a liability. SNSD is a good example, you can see how everyone is equal in that group, and when you try to decide which member is the best among the rest, you either end up with like 2 or 3, or you think they are all just as good.

What are you talking about? Taeyeon is the clear lead vocal of SNSD followed by Seohyun and then Jessica (when her voice isn't cracking). These aren't arbitrary roles decided by fans; the groups themselves list positions for members. It is not uncommon for large groups to have 2 or 3 lead vocals.


I think you are mistaken with her being leader (which does not equal lead vocal). She does have what it takes though, but because of the large amount of members, she only sings like 1~2 lines in a verse at most.
sung_moon
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States10110 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-17 06:09:48
January 17 2011 06:08 GMT
#20677
On January 17 2011 14:54 ace246 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2011 14:47 Craton wrote:
On January 17 2011 12:14 Candide wrote:
just found this i think some of you gee gee haters will enjoy it. LOL

That was (literally) posted in the second day of this thread's existence.

Please don't revert to December's episodes of reposting things for the nth time without first searching.

On January 17 2011 12:19 ace246 wrote:
On January 17 2011 05:29 Kipsate wrote:
Lead vocals are core to a group, if you have neither vocals nor looks or appeal then I suppose you make less then the rest. However I suppose alot of groups just divide the money equally among members(that is from sales) with the company getting like 99% of it. Variety shows and CF's is where the money is, but I don't even know if they get any money from that really. The amount of CF's you get is based upon your popularity, the more CF's and Variety shows you go on, the more money you can make individually from the group.


Thats not always the case where lead vocals are core to a group, they are more like an optional role which is viable and won't be much of a liability. SNSD is a good example, you can see how everyone is equal in that group, and when you try to decide which member is the best among the rest, you either end up with like 2 or 3, or you think they are all just as good.

What are you talking about? Taeyeon is the clear lead vocal of SNSD followed by Seohyun and then Jessica (when her voice isn't cracking). These aren't arbitrary roles decided by fans; the groups themselves list positions for members. It is not uncommon for large groups to have 2 or 3 lead vocals.


I think you are mistaken with her being leader (which does not equal lead vocal). She does have what it takes though, but because of the large amount of members, she only sings like 1~2 lines in a verse at most.


If u think taeyeon isn't the main/lead vocal and/or that all of snsd is equal amongst themselves in terms of vocals you are deaf or smoking some really good shit that i want.
and her singing 1-2 lines at most (lol) is a part of having too many members and trying to evenly (also lol) distributing lyrics between those who can sing and can't. quite common for every group

edit: meh nvm shouldn't even bother in this thread anymore
Forever Young
ace246
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia360 Posts
January 17 2011 06:16 GMT
#20678
I thought lead vocal was the one who sings the most, guess i misunderstood.
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17281 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-17 06:26:53
January 17 2011 06:20 GMT
#20679
Taeyeon has the most lines in most of their songs and the most face time in their title track MVs, either way.

Your lead vocals are your strongest vocals. They generally get the "harder" parts and sings the most individual lines. They also are the ones who are most chosen to do solo acts, collaborations, and/or sub-groups.

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
Credit: SSF
twitch.tv/cratonz
Disregard
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
China10252 Posts
January 17 2011 06:25 GMT
#20680
Same goes for Davichi but you dont see Haeri get as many acts, collaborations and the works because KMK overshadows her in appearance/popularity. Even though she is very capable in vocals too.
"If I had to take a drug in order to be free, I'm screwed. Freedom exists in the mind, otherwise it doesn't exist."
Prev 1 1032 1033 1034 1035 1036 5787 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 16h 56m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 652
LamboSC2 158
TKL 151
UpATreeSC 12
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 5549
Calm 4165
Sea 2493
HiyA 516
actioN 313
Larva 272
Hyuk 259
Zeus 124
firebathero 114
Rush 101
[ Show more ]
ToSsGirL 71
sSak 62
Sharp 60
Backho 59
Pusan 57
Sea.KH 48
Sexy 39
Bale 31
Sacsri 30
yabsab 28
soO 25
Shine 24
Movie 23
Rock 19
IntoTheRainbow 12
GoRush 9
Dota 2
syndereN351
Counter-Strike
fl0m3750
byalli404
adren_tv54
Other Games
singsing2186
FrodaN778
hiko735
B2W.Neo613
crisheroes331
XaKoH 119
KnowMe93
QueenE71
Trikslyr39
NightEnD38
Fuzer 37
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV235
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream97
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 10
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 84
• musti20045 15
• Kozan
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 29
• blackmanpl 13
• Michael_bg 1
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis1827
• TFBlade1245
Counter-Strike
• Shiphtur144
Other Games
• WagamamaTV390
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
16h 56m
Escore
17h 56m
INu's Battles
18h 56m
Classic vs ByuN
SHIN vs ByuN
OSC
20h 56m
Big Brain Bouts
23h 56m
Replay Cast
1d 7h
Replay Cast
1d 16h
RSL Revival
1d 17h
Classic vs GgMaChine
Rogue vs Maru
WardiTV Invitational
1d 18h
IPSL
1d 23h
Ret vs Art_Of_Turtle
Radley vs TBD
[ Show More ]
BSL
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
herO vs TriGGeR
NightMare vs Solar
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
BSL
3 days
IPSL
3 days
eOnzErG vs TBD
G5 vs Nesh
Patches Events
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Jaedong vs Light
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Snow vs Flash
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
GSL
5 days
Classic vs Cure
Maru vs Rogue
GSL
6 days
SHIN vs Zoun
ByuN vs herO
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-04-29
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
2026 GSL S1
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W5
KK 2v2 League Season 1
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.