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On November 21 2012 14:42 acker wrote:
I find it difficult to believe that Sasuke will be able to fight on equal terms with Naruto after this particular arc.
Unless he absorbs the Juubi or something.
why not? the ultimate Susano'o is strong enough to wrestle with a Biju and its so obvious that the only reason Madara used the ultimate Susano'o is so Sasuke can use it in the final fight against Naruto
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I don't even understand the action in this manga anymore.
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On November 21 2012 14:46 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 14:42 acker wrote:
I find it difficult to believe that Sasuke will be able to fight on equal terms with Naruto after this particular arc.
Unless he absorbs the Juubi or something. why not? the ultimate Susano'o is strong enough to wrestle with a Biju and its so obvious that the only reason Madara used the ultimate Susano'o is so Sasuke can use it in the final fight against Naruto
Madara currently has infinite chakra and can keep spamming ridiculously high-leveled jutsu indefinitely. Sasuke...doesn't.
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On November 21 2012 15:11 acker wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 14:46 Forikorder wrote:On November 21 2012 14:42 acker wrote:
I find it difficult to believe that Sasuke will be able to fight on equal terms with Naruto after this particular arc.
Unless he absorbs the Juubi or something. why not? the ultimate Susano'o is strong enough to wrestle with a Biju and its so obvious that the only reason Madara used the ultimate Susano'o is so Sasuke can use it in the final fight against Naruto Madara currently has infinite chakra and can keep spamming ridiculously high-leveled jutsu indefinitely. Sasuke...doesn't.
Madara used the ultimate susano'o to fight Hashirama before he had infinite chakra the ultimate susano'o is a technique sasuke can and will use
why else would Madara use the ultimate Susano'o for not even an entire chapter except as foreshadowing for Sasuke VS Naruto?
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On November 21 2012 08:42 Cush wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 08:24 DrunkenHomer wrote:On November 21 2012 07:46 travis wrote:
i thought it was another awesome chapter Not to be a dick, but why did you like this chapter? This fight is basically Dragonball Z/GT at the end, where overpowerd things throw giagantic "deathballs" at each other, even gai`s so powerfull "gate technique" seemed like a little fly and the kyuubi just "energizes" everyone so they can use another ultimate justu... just waiting for a fungal randomly appearing out of no where... Holy shit do you realize just how powerful the Ten-Tails is? Kurama told us that it is essentially a god on earth that can split oceans, destroy continents, and pretty much fuck up everything. The way you describe these "deathballs" tells me you never even read Naruto before.
Bla bla bla.
The Kyuubi got introduced as a monster that destroys mountains on accident by wiggling his tails. That didn´t cause the pre timeskip stories to be all about energy blasts, even when naruto fought against gaara/the ichibi.
The tail beasts being like natural disasters was all fine and well until Kishi decided to make them characters by giving them personalities. The ichibi was basically a monster that liked to destroy and kill stuff and was kinda like a Godzilla battle.
But now we have Godzilla, KingKong, Mechagodzilla, Mothra etc etc. talking and having character development, even being reasoned with. At the point where the giant monsters can form allegiances it takes away from their menacingness.
But worst of all, turning the tailbeasts into characters makes them inexpendable. You can´t just defeat or kill one of them anymore. Even if the 8tails seems to be all but superfluous(It´s a giant beast, just like the kyuubi. It looks a little different, but is otherwise the same. Just like we have Gai instead of Rock Lee right now, they´re identical).
In DBZ you at least had a reason for the escalation of power. Goku is in the infinite time chamber, gotta stall the villain until he is finished. Or stalling time until Trunks/Goten can use Fusion again. Cell and Buu had pretty explicite power jumps, requiring likewise power jumps from the good guys. It had structure to it.
In Naruto I get the feeling that at the start of the fight and the end of the fight everyone has the same power level. It just takes forever for no adequate reason.
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On November 21 2012 15:34 Mataza wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 08:42 Cush wrote:On November 21 2012 08:24 DrunkenHomer wrote:On November 21 2012 07:46 travis wrote:
i thought it was another awesome chapter Not to be a dick, but why did you like this chapter? This fight is basically Dragonball Z/GT at the end, where overpowerd things throw giagantic "deathballs" at each other, even gai`s so powerfull "gate technique" seemed like a little fly and the kyuubi just "energizes" everyone so they can use another ultimate justu... just waiting for a fungal randomly appearing out of no where... Holy shit do you realize just how powerful the Ten-Tails is? Kurama told us that it is essentially a god on earth that can split oceans, destroy continents, and pretty much fuck up everything. The way you describe these "deathballs" tells me you never even read Naruto before. Bla bla bla. The Kyuubi got introduced as a monster that destroys mountains on accident by wiggling his tails. That didn´t cause the pre timeskip stories to be all about energy blasts, even when naruto fought against gaara/the ichibi. The tail beasts being like natural disasters was all fine and well until Kishi decided to make them characters by giving them personalities. The ichibi was basically a monster that liked to destroy and kill stuff and was kinda like a Godzilla battle. But now we have Godzilla, KingKong, Mechagodzilla, Mothra etc etc. talking and having character development, even being reasoned with. At the point where the giant monsters can form allegiances it takes away from their menacingness. But worst of all, turning the tailbeasts into characters makes them inexpendable. You can´t just defeat or kill one of them anymore. Even if the 8tails seems to be all but superfluous(It´s a giant beast, just like the kyuubi. It looks a little different, but is otherwise the same. Just like we have Gai instead of Rock Lee right now, they´re identical). In DBZ you at least had a reason for the escalation of power. Goku is in the infinite time chamber, gotta stall the villain until he is finished. Or stalling time until Trunks/Goten can use Fusion again. Cell and Buu had pretty explicite power jumps, requiring likewise power jumps from the good guys. It had structure to it. In Naruto I get the feeling that at the start of the fight and the end of the fight everyone has the same power level. It just takes forever for no adequate reason.
Naruto VS Gaara was like 90% Gama and Ichibi trading wind/water bullets and 10% shadow clones
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On November 21 2012 15:38 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 15:34 Mataza wrote:On November 21 2012 08:42 Cush wrote:On November 21 2012 08:24 DrunkenHomer wrote:On November 21 2012 07:46 travis wrote:
i thought it was another awesome chapter Not to be a dick, but why did you like this chapter? This fight is basically Dragonball Z/GT at the end, where overpowerd things throw giagantic "deathballs" at each other, even gai`s so powerfull "gate technique" seemed like a little fly and the kyuubi just "energizes" everyone so they can use another ultimate justu... just waiting for a fungal randomly appearing out of no where... Holy shit do you realize just how powerful the Ten-Tails is? Kurama told us that it is essentially a god on earth that can split oceans, destroy continents, and pretty much fuck up everything. The way you describe these "deathballs" tells me you never even read Naruto before. Bla bla bla. The Kyuubi got introduced as a monster that destroys mountains on accident by wiggling his tails. That didn´t cause the pre timeskip stories to be all about energy blasts, even when naruto fought against gaara/the ichibi. The tail beasts being like natural disasters was all fine and well until Kishi decided to make them characters by giving them personalities. The ichibi was basically a monster that liked to destroy and kill stuff and was kinda like a Godzilla battle. But now we have Godzilla, KingKong, Mechagodzilla, Mothra etc etc. talking and having character development, even being reasoned with. At the point where the giant monsters can form allegiances it takes away from their menacingness. But worst of all, turning the tailbeasts into characters makes them inexpendable. You can´t just defeat or kill one of them anymore. Even if the 8tails seems to be all but superfluous(It´s a giant beast, just like the kyuubi. It looks a little different, but is otherwise the same. Just like we have Gai instead of Rock Lee right now, they´re identical). In DBZ you at least had a reason for the escalation of power. Goku is in the infinite time chamber, gotta stall the villain until he is finished. Or stalling time until Trunks/Goten can use Fusion again. Cell and Buu had pretty explicite power jumps, requiring likewise power jumps from the good guys. It had structure to it. In Naruto I get the feeling that at the start of the fight and the end of the fight everyone has the same power level. It just takes forever for no adequate reason. Naruto VS Gaara was like 90% Gama and Ichibi trading wind/water bullets and 10% shadow clones
The main difference is that the ichibi was not talking and explaining his evil plans with konoha.
He was just there, out of control destroying everything in sight. That´s exactly what I´m talking about.
Aside from that, it included gamabunta and naruto transforming into a giant fox(opposed to releasing his kyuubi) and the ichibi had a weakness to be exploited, i.e. waking gaara up defeated him.
A well executed Giant Robot boss fight with a glowing weak spot in his left armpit is just more satisfying than turning yourself into a Giant Robot and having a Rock em Sock em boxing match.
Best of 200 rounds of course.
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That thing looks like an uglier Shuma-gorath Oo'
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On November 21 2012 15:50 Mataza wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 15:38 Forikorder wrote:On November 21 2012 15:34 Mataza wrote:On November 21 2012 08:42 Cush wrote:On November 21 2012 08:24 DrunkenHomer wrote:On November 21 2012 07:46 travis wrote:
i thought it was another awesome chapter Not to be a dick, but why did you like this chapter? This fight is basically Dragonball Z/GT at the end, where overpowerd things throw giagantic "deathballs" at each other, even gai`s so powerfull "gate technique" seemed like a little fly and the kyuubi just "energizes" everyone so they can use another ultimate justu... just waiting for a fungal randomly appearing out of no where... Holy shit do you realize just how powerful the Ten-Tails is? Kurama told us that it is essentially a god on earth that can split oceans, destroy continents, and pretty much fuck up everything. The way you describe these "deathballs" tells me you never even read Naruto before. Bla bla bla. The Kyuubi got introduced as a monster that destroys mountains on accident by wiggling his tails. That didn´t cause the pre timeskip stories to be all about energy blasts, even when naruto fought against gaara/the ichibi. The tail beasts being like natural disasters was all fine and well until Kishi decided to make them characters by giving them personalities. The ichibi was basically a monster that liked to destroy and kill stuff and was kinda like a Godzilla battle. But now we have Godzilla, KingKong, Mechagodzilla, Mothra etc etc. talking and having character development, even being reasoned with. At the point where the giant monsters can form allegiances it takes away from their menacingness. But worst of all, turning the tailbeasts into characters makes them inexpendable. You can´t just defeat or kill one of them anymore. Even if the 8tails seems to be all but superfluous(It´s a giant beast, just like the kyuubi. It looks a little different, but is otherwise the same. Just like we have Gai instead of Rock Lee right now, they´re identical). In DBZ you at least had a reason for the escalation of power. Goku is in the infinite time chamber, gotta stall the villain until he is finished. Or stalling time until Trunks/Goten can use Fusion again. Cell and Buu had pretty explicite power jumps, requiring likewise power jumps from the good guys. It had structure to it. In Naruto I get the feeling that at the start of the fight and the end of the fight everyone has the same power level. It just takes forever for no adequate reason. Naruto VS Gaara was like 90% Gama and Ichibi trading wind/water bullets and 10% shadow clones The main difference is that the ichibi was not talking and explaining his evil plans with konoha. He was just there, out of control destroying everything in sight. That´s exactly what I´m talking about. Aside from that, it included gamabunta and naruto transforming into a giant fox(opposed to releasing his kyuubi) and the ichibi had a weakness to be exploited, i.e. waking gaara up defeated him. A well executed Giant Robot boss fight with a glowing weak spot in his left armpit is just more satisfying than turning yourself into a Giant Robot and having a Rock em Sock em boxing match. Best of 200 rounds of course.
so the Ichibi VS Gamabunta is better then Jyuubi VS Kyuubi and Hachibi because the Ichibi was just killing for the fun of killing?
because other then that there exactly the same jsut replace the wind and water bullets with Bijuudamas, and replace Gaara with Obito and Madara and its the exact same thing
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That would be like comparing goku's kamehameha wave in the original goku vs picollo fight from dragonball to cell vs gohan's kamehameha waves in DBZ....
In both cases they blasted giant energy blasts, and the fight was between 2 people. But the levels of power is so immensely different it makes everything different. A minor mistake and you might make a small crater. Now if you miss a mountain disappears. (just like in dragonball vs dbz, it was destroy the ring vs destroy the entire earth....bit different if you ask me) You simply can't compare the 2 lol.
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On November 22 2012 13:26 BlackPaladin wrote:
That would be like comparing goku's kamehameha wave in the original goku vs picollo fight from dragonball to cell vs gohan's kamehameha waves in DBZ....
In both cases they blasted giant energy blasts, and the fight was between 2 people. But the levels of power is so immensely different it makes everything different. A minor mistake and you might make a small crater. Now if you miss a mountain disappears. (just like in dragonball vs dbz, it was destroy the ring vs destroy the entire earth....bit different if you ask me) You simply can't compare the 2 lol.
thats cause people get stronger over the course of a manga, point out a single action manga where the characters never get stronger
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......That's not the point at all wtf?? lolol
The point is you can't compare the 2 fights at all due to the power level differences. So don't even bring such comparisons into a discussion.
Personally I don't mind the fight. I actually like that the juubi seems like an unstoppable wrecking ball and hope kishi ends the battle in a good way, rather than some cheese corny way.
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On November 22 2012 13:55 BlackPaladin wrote:
......That's not the point at all wtf?? lolol
The point is you can't compare the 2 fights at all due to the power level differences. So don't even bring such comparisons into a discussion.
Personally I don't mind the fight. I actually like that the juubi seems like an unstoppable wrecking ball and hope kishi ends the battle in a good way, rather than some cheese corny way.
it was said that
A well executed Giant Robot boss fight with a glowing weak spot in his left armpit is just more satisfying than turning yourself into a Giant Robot and having a Rock em Sock em boxing match.
implying he thought this fight was jsut a rock em sock em boxing match but its exactly like Ichibi VS Gamabunta where theres a "glowing weak spot" there aiming for that wins the fight for them
all they have to do is seperate Madara and Obito from the Jyuubi and they win its exactly in every way the same as Ichibi VS Gamabunta
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On November 22 2012 14:06 BlackPaladin wrote:
That wasn't me.....
i know that i was trying to bring you up to speed onw aht was being talked about
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So I read a bit of the Naruto wikia, and apparently Obito was on the cover of Chapter 16 (waaaaay back in the beginning of the series). I noticed Obito was also mentioned throughout Part 1 -- which begs the question, has Kishi actually been planning this out since the very beginning?
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On November 22 2012 14:20 Packawana wrote:
So I read a bit of the Naruto wikia, and apparently Obito was on the cover of Chapter 16 (waaaaay back in the beginning of the series). I noticed Obito was also mentioned throughout Part 1 -- which begs the question, has Kishi actually been planning this out since the very beginning?
its been planned since the time skip at least
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On November 22 2012 14:20 Packawana wrote:
So I read a bit of the Naruto wikia, and apparently Obito was on the cover of Chapter 16 (waaaaay back in the beginning of the series). I noticed Obito was also mentioned throughout Part 1 -- which begs the question, has Kishi actually been planning this out since the very beginning?
Doubt it.
1-Tails was said to be an old evil sand priest, so it seems kishi planned something different with the beasts in the beginning
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On November 21 2012 15:34 Mataza wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 08:42 Cush wrote:On November 21 2012 08:24 DrunkenHomer wrote:On November 21 2012 07:46 travis wrote:
i thought it was another awesome chapter Not to be a dick, but why did you like this chapter? This fight is basically Dragonball Z/GT at the end, where overpowerd things throw giagantic "deathballs" at each other, even gai`s so powerfull "gate technique" seemed like a little fly and the kyuubi just "energizes" everyone so they can use another ultimate justu... just waiting for a fungal randomly appearing out of no where... Holy shit do you realize just how powerful the Ten-Tails is? Kurama told us that it is essentially a god on earth that can split oceans, destroy continents, and pretty much fuck up everything. The way you describe these "deathballs" tells me you never even read Naruto before. Bla bla bla. The Kyuubi got introduced as a monster that destroys mountains on accident by wiggling his tails. That didn´t cause the pre timeskip stories to be all about energy blasts, even when naruto fought against gaara/the ichibi. The tail beasts being like natural disasters was all fine and well until Kishi decided to make them characters by giving them personalities. The ichibi was basically a monster that liked to destroy and kill stuff and was kinda like a Godzilla battle. But now we have Godzilla, KingKong, Mechagodzilla, Mothra etc etc. talking and having character development, even being reasoned with. At the point where the giant monsters can form allegiances it takes away from their menacingness. But worst of all, turning the tailbeasts into characters makes them inexpendable. You can´t just defeat or kill one of them anymore. Even if the 8tails seems to be all but superfluous(It´s a giant beast, just like the kyuubi. It looks a little different, but is otherwise the same. Just like we have Gai instead of Rock Lee right now, they´re identical). In DBZ you at least had a reason for the escalation of power. Goku is in the infinite time chamber, gotta stall the villain until he is finished. Or stalling time until Trunks/Goten can use Fusion again. Cell and Buu had pretty explicite power jumps, requiring likewise power jumps from the good guys. It had structure to it. In Naruto I get the feeling that at the start of the fight and the end of the fight everyone has the same power level. It just takes forever for no adequate reason.
it goes like this:
Naruto Sucks
Sasuke makes Naruto jealous
Naruto gets stronger than Sasuke
Sasuke Leaves
Naruto gets stronger
(this is were it becomes rinse and repeat..)
Bad guy appears thats stronger than Naruto
Naruto Gets stronger
Beats bad guy
A stronger bad guy appears
wash out shampoo
repeat
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On November 22 2012 20:13 LgNKami wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 15:34 Mataza wrote:On November 21 2012 08:42 Cush wrote:On November 21 2012 08:24 DrunkenHomer wrote:On November 21 2012 07:46 travis wrote:
i thought it was another awesome chapter Not to be a dick, but why did you like this chapter? This fight is basically Dragonball Z/GT at the end, where overpowerd things throw giagantic "deathballs" at each other, even gai`s so powerfull "gate technique" seemed like a little fly and the kyuubi just "energizes" everyone so they can use another ultimate justu... just waiting for a fungal randomly appearing out of no where... Holy shit do you realize just how powerful the Ten-Tails is? Kurama told us that it is essentially a god on earth that can split oceans, destroy continents, and pretty much fuck up everything. The way you describe these "deathballs" tells me you never even read Naruto before. Bla bla bla. The Kyuubi got introduced as a monster that destroys mountains on accident by wiggling his tails. That didn´t cause the pre timeskip stories to be all about energy blasts, even when naruto fought against gaara/the ichibi. The tail beasts being like natural disasters was all fine and well until Kishi decided to make them characters by giving them personalities. The ichibi was basically a monster that liked to destroy and kill stuff and was kinda like a Godzilla battle. But now we have Godzilla, KingKong, Mechagodzilla, Mothra etc etc. talking and having character development, even being reasoned with. At the point where the giant monsters can form allegiances it takes away from their menacingness. But worst of all, turning the tailbeasts into characters makes them inexpendable. You can´t just defeat or kill one of them anymore. Even if the 8tails seems to be all but superfluous(It´s a giant beast, just like the kyuubi. It looks a little different, but is otherwise the same. Just like we have Gai instead of Rock Lee right now, they´re identical). In DBZ you at least had a reason for the escalation of power. Goku is in the infinite time chamber, gotta stall the villain until he is finished. Or stalling time until Trunks/Goten can use Fusion again. Cell and Buu had pretty explicite power jumps, requiring likewise power jumps from the good guys. It had structure to it. In Naruto I get the feeling that at the start of the fight and the end of the fight everyone has the same power level. It just takes forever for no adequate reason. it goes like this: Naruto Sucks Sasuke makes Naruto jealous Naruto gets stronger than Sasuke Sasuke Leaves Naruto gets stronger (this is were it becomes rinse and repeat..) Bad guy appears thats stronger than Naruto Naruto Gets stronger Beats bad guy A stronger bad guy appears wash out shampoo repeat
The problem isn't that formula. It's a lack of consistency with no real explained powerups.
The 9 tails just keeps drawing infinite power. Madara could defeat 5(!) hokages at once and barely touch his own chakra pool apparently. The hokages were supposed to be nigh on the strongest warriors of the village, they shouldn't be useless by any means...
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EPT
