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On October 20 2011 06:02 Roaming wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 05:37 adiga wrote:
Anyone else noticed at the 2nd page that Madara saying at the beginning: "..This is HIS doing.." and when he asks who is the controller Muu says: "HIS assistant" the HIS is bold, sooooooo this means that tobi is orichimaru? or kabuto worked for another ninja?
on another note, something funny that this chapter made me think about:
If Madara is THAT strong, and the first manged to kick his ass, than WHY THE FUCK the next generation is such a pathetic weaklings? They shouldn't be surpassing them or something like that? /bullshit Dead Madara: this is HIS doing.. Kabuto: i am HIS assistant.. ... man.. like.. so many people are so dense. Spoiler alert. Tobi is... Madara Uchiha. Madara is talking about Tobi(aka the part of him that didn't die). Kabuto is TOBI's assistant. Fuck people. It's called the ETERNAL mangekyo sharigan. He's not dead.
Being resurrected from the dead might disagree with you.
It's a little odd to call the other half of you "him". Maybe it doesn't carry across well in the translation, but Madara doesn't seem to be talking about another piece of himself, more like an entirely different person.
How I think this arc is going to end is that the weakness of Edo Tensai is going to be shown. Up til now, there has been seemingly no weakness to the technique, and it's even better than a normal resurrection since you become immortal. If that were really the case, it seems like it would be a much better idea for Tobi to have learned it and used that to resurrect Madara.
But for some reason, Madara is seemingly horrified at its use. Although this could also be cleared up by revealing he is actually not a villain and in reality a good person. It's also interesting that he knows of the technique despite it supposedly being developed by Orochimaru. Perhaps the technique was originally from Madara's time period and it was lost until Orochimaru rediscovered it. If that were the case, then it's very believable that there is some hidden weakness to Edo Tensai that Orochimaru never found out about that Madara would have known about because it was used during his lifetime.
This doesn't really explain who Tobi is though, I really have no ideas. I don't like the thought of him being Madara's brother because it just seems too cliche. I feel like we actually don't know how the Mangekyo Sharingan actually works. After all, we have never actually confirmed that the whole "kill your best friend" thing is even true. Everything we know about the Sharingan and it's evolution may be completely wrong.
And finally, with everyone thinking that Nagato may be older than he seems and so that's how he knows Madara, it doesn't seem to fit. Jiraya knew Nagato as a child, so unless Nagato spent 50+ years as a 12 year old and then suddenly started aging normally, it doesn't make sense.
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On October 20 2011 06:15 Emporio wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 06:02 Roaming wrote:On October 20 2011 05:37 adiga wrote:
Anyone else noticed at the 2nd page that Madara saying at the beginning: "..This is HIS doing.." and when he asks who is the controller Muu says: "HIS assistant" the HIS is bold, sooooooo this means that tobi is orichimaru? or kabuto worked for another ninja?
on another note, something funny that this chapter made me think about:
If Madara is THAT strong, and the first manged to kick his ass, than WHY THE FUCK the next generation is such a pathetic weaklings? They shouldn't be surpassing them or something like that? /bullshit Dead Madara: this is HIS doing.. Kabuto: i am HIS assistant.. ... man.. like.. so many people are so dense. Spoiler alert. Tobi is... Madara Uchiha. Madara is talking about Tobi(aka the part of him that didn't die). Kabuto is TOBI's assistant. Fuck people. It's called the ETERNAL mangekyo sharigan. He's not dead. Being resurrected from the dead might disagree with you. It's a little odd to call the other half of you "him". Maybe it doesn't carry across well in the translation, but Madara doesn't seem to be talking about another piece of himself, more like an entirely different person. How I think this arc is going to end is that the weakness of Edo Tensai is going to be shown. Up til now, there has been seemingly no weakness to the technique, and it's even better than a normal resurrection since you become immortal. If that were really the case, it seems like it would be a much better idea for Tobi to have learned it and used that to resurrect Madara. But for some reason, Madara is seemingly horrified at its use. Although this could also be cleared up by revealing he is actually not a villain and in reality a good person. It's also interesting that he knows of the technique despite it supposedly being developed by Orochimaru. Perhaps the technique was originally from Madara's time period and it was lost until Orochimaru rediscovered it. If that were the case, then it's very believable that there is some hidden weakness to Edo Tensai that Orochimaru never found out about that Madara would have known about because it was used during his lifetime. This doesn't really explain who Tobi is though, I really have no ideas. I don't like the thought of him being Madara's brother because it just seems too cliche. I feel like we actually don't know how the Mangekyo Sharingan actually works. After all, we have never actually confirmed that the whole "kill your best friend" thing is even true. Everything we know about the Sharingan and it's evolution may be completely wrong. And finally, with everyone thinking that Nagato may be older than he seems and so that's how he knows Madara, it doesn't seem to fit. Jiraya knew Nagato as a child, so unless Nagato spent 50+ years as a 12 year old and then suddenly started aging normally, it doesn't make sense.
The Impure world resurrection jutsu was created by the 2nd hokage and orochimaru was the one who perfected it. and now kabuto has a better version of it i guess. but it seems the same as orochimarus minus the fact that kabutos summons can talk at will
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The whole eye thingy is pissing me off. I mean, it was supposed to be so exclusive, so special even among elite ninjas. I mean, just the fact that Kakashi had one was a huge deal, and now they are giving out rinnegans and sharingans like it's early Christmas.
Whatever happened to byakugan, which was supposed to be even stronger than sharingan, and now it looks like utter crap that is only useful for surveillance tasks.
And being a juunin used to mean you were powerful, and that in the Narutoverse you were feared. Nowadays, you are either at Sannin/Kage level or you are a POS.
Basically if this was a car manga, the average competitor would have had a Ford Focus ST, and everybody wanted to catch up to they guy driving the Audi S5, with the guy owning a Porsche Boxster being the boss. Suddenly, in one single arc, everyone is driving Veyrons on average, and most of them drive F-1's with indestructible armor and infinite fuel.
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What is a car manga ? 
No seriously guys, why is there so much hate. You all are well entertained for several years by Kishi, i guess the most of you for free. So please just read it and be happy, it is a nice story at all.
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On October 20 2011 07:32 RamenStyle wrote:
The whole eye thingy is pissing me off. I mean, it was supposed to be so exclusive, so special even among elite ninjas. I mean, just the fact that Kakashi had one was a huge deal, and now they are giving out rinnegans and sharingans like it's early Christmas.
Whatever happened to byakugan, which was supposed to be even stronger than sharingan, and now it looks like utter crap that is only useful for surveillance tasks.
And being a juunin used to mean you were powerful, and that in the Narutoverse you were feared. Nowadays, you are either at Sannin/Kage level or you are a POS.
Basically if this was a car manga, the average competitor would have had a Ford Focus ST, and everybody wanted to catch up to they guy driving the Audi S5, with the guy owning a Porsche Boxster being the boss. Suddenly, in one single arc, everyone is driving Veyrons on average, and most of them drive F-1's with indestructible armor and infinite fuel. To be fair... they wern't rare because they were powerful, they were rare because they died out. Make Sasuke a breeding horse (god knows he could, for some reason every single girl in the Narutoverse seems to think he has Auto-swagger) and you would have a whole town full of them. The problem isn't the ammount, the problem is that we accept that they keep doing more and more ridiculous things. Remember when the Sharingan could only do the following? Copy weak to medium jutsus, Predict movment and it made you an bad-ass at Genjutsu (which by the way you could be just fine without those eyes, they only gave you an easier headstart).
Infact one of my favourite fights is when Sasuke gets completly schooled by Orichimaru for relying so much on the Sharingan and basicly says that the sharingan provides a false sense of power and that a real ninja has a billlion ways to counter it.
I remember when this manga was a bout stratergy and overcomming odds not about who could summon the biggest penis I mean jutsu.
Infact this entire fucking manga was about not relying on your god damn birthgiven powers.
Naruto and Sasuke vs Orichimaru
Sasuke vs Gaara - Oh Sasukes haircutlol
Rock Lee vs Gaara
Naruto vs Neji
Sasuke vs Naruto
Shikamaru vs Hidan
Chōji vs Jirobo
Sakura vs Sasori (This one is different, it is a balancing fight to show that if you obsess to much over the powers you want you end up losing your humanity, in Sasoris case in a not very subtle case)
Almost all of those fights are Icons of the series and all of them teaches you that using your birth power to get what you want doesn't work because someone is going to outsmart you and punch you in the balls when they find out the weakness, and the only way to really become a great man is to balance it.
Infact the best example of this is Choji vs Jirobo. When Choji takes the last pill he doesn't become a massive giant that can simply crush his opponent, he reverses and becomes how he sees himself. Infact when he beats Jirobo he choose to not use his familys jutsu when charging up his arm.
But that was years ago out with the old in with the new just abuse your birth right and get a new pair of eyes in the mail HOORAY FOR PROGRESS:
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On October 20 2011 07:32 RamenStyle wrote:
The whole eye thingy is pissing me off. I mean, it was supposed to be so exclusive, so special even among elite ninjas. I mean, just the fact that Kakashi had one was a huge deal, and now they are giving out rinnegans and sharingans like it's early Christmas.
Whatever happened to byakugan, which was supposed to be even stronger than sharingan, and now it looks like utter crap that is only useful for surveillance tasks.
And being a juunin used to mean you were powerful, and that in the Narutoverse you were feared. Nowadays, you are either at Sannin/Kage level or you are a POS.
Basically if this was a car manga, the average competitor would have had a Ford Focus ST, and everybody wanted to catch up to they guy driving the Audi S5, with the guy owning a Porsche Boxster being the boss. Suddenly, in one single arc, everyone is driving Veyrons on average, and most of them drive F-1's with indestructible armor and infinite fuel.
 I was thinking of the exact same thing!
It feels so much like Dragonball Z with everyone surpassing the most powerful being in the universe
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+ Show Spoiler +When I saw that meteor come down on them, i laughed in awe and thought, "Nagato really failed in comparison"
I suspect Itachi's going to come in and stop the Edo Tensei? Unless there's some cheesy way they can handle this like Madara running out of energy or Naruto powers up and suddenly defeats him
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On October 20 2011 09:00 Rob-Zero wrote:What is a car manga ? No seriously guys, why is there so much hate. You all are well entertained for several years by Kishi, i guess the most of you for free. So please just read it and be happy, it is a nice story at all.
Why? I don't care about the money I spent which is a sizeable ammount what I do care for is the hours upon hours upon hours getting invested in these characters. I've spent years of my life following and pouring my heart and soul into a story I loved. So of-bloody-course I'm going to get fumed up when the author suddenly start disregarding everything the story stood for and everything the characters stood for. If he had just ended it without a proper ending yea I would have been annoyed but if Kishi ran out of inspiration or dedication that's fine. But I hate it when people drive their creations into the ground because they ran out of steam. This can not be what he had planned from the start because it is completly contradictive to what it used to be.
Kishi has jumped more sharks than there are Jaws movies by now and ofcourse it's going to invoke a reaction.
Your actions no longer have consecvences and that was the lead motif of this manga. That is what made it magical that is what made it what it is. Check out the Zabusa arc it's so fucking good, read it again it's all about Actions = Conscvences = Growth = Progress. Now? No bloody action means anything.
Hinata declaring her love for Naruto? LOL CAN'T EVEN REMEMBER
Sasuke living in a hole for 3 years? LOL FREE POWER UPS IN EVER PACKET!
Ninja war with tons of casulties? LOL THEY'RE ZOMBIES!
Naruto still going after Sakura... even though the attraction was only there for looks and she has treated him like garbage, LOL NO GROWTH STILL LOVES HER
I could make a 100 item list of this shit.
While I have no rights to tell Kishimoto how to write his manga, I sure as hell has the right to be pissed off about it.
Naruto was a huge part of my early teens back in 2000 and he is taking a piss on it.
PS: What makes it even worse for me, unlike Kubo who seems to have lost any kind of writing ability, sometimes Kishimoto pulls gold out of his arse showing that he still knows how to get a good story.
Fuck Mufasa when Jiraya died there was tears in my eyes it was handled fucking perfectly. The finale when Konan died, and no I don't mean her final jutsu? Fucking amazing I was sitting around for weeks wondering what the hell those flashbacks to Jiraya and her team was actually going to acomplish and with a single panel he managed to convey a fuckton of emotions. Those 3 cards turned around was like a having a truck slam into your mind. It was frankly, amazing.
I think that concludes why I am pissed off at Naruto atm.
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He has Rinnegan. Holy Shit.
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Holy shit, let's think this through. Now, implanting Pain's rinnegan in himself and sasuke doesn't make sense, they could simply awaken it. So.... plot hole for now. Maybe he'll fill it up, and I don't understand why people are talking about Orochimaru? What did he do in this chapter
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I don't know why people have such a hard time grasping this. They aren't 10000 sets of Rinnegan. It's two eyes.
Madara EMS upgrades to them. Gave them to tobi. He gave them to Nagato. Then Tobi takes them back.
Everyone omfg haxxor that the eyes upgrade? You should have omfg haxxor when nagato(senju body) 'awakens' them. Not when Madara Uchiha, the most legendary badass ninja awakens them.
If nagato really had 'awoken' the Rinnegan then wtf would have been the point of 'spliting off the power into eyes and body in the first place?
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sigh, I hate how all these recent chapters have been revolving around Sharingan and Rinnegan. Seriously, they make all other jutsus look complete shit. Back in the days I actually got excited when someone has some special eye technique that pwns, "OMG HE ACTIVATED SHARINGAN OMGGG YESSS", or "HOLY SHIT RINNEGAN IS OP". And i didn't mind that because its just those special characters that have them and their usage of these eyes are somewhat tied to their history or their personality.
now we have this giant cockfest of sharingan and rinnegan. omg he has sharingan you have sharingan and that guy stole some sharingan so now imma steal me some sharingan. real interesting, its like you obtain sharingan and you fucking own shit up. Whatever happened to those individual special jutsu's that make things interesting? a.k.a deidara clay bombs, sasori billion upon billion of puppets, heck even fucking Ino's mind control shit. Now we have this HUGE ass battle where characters upon characters appear with fucking sharingans.
and when the hell did naruto become so imba? i distinctively remember its not even awhile ago in Naruto-time (maybe a few weeks back) when naruto still had troubles controlling Nine-Tails, and now he's in sage mode with shadow clones going around pwning all the strong revived characters? seriously? zzz
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I'm actually liking what's happened in the last few issues.
-Even though Madara was revived by the impure world resurrection, he didn't just jump down, activate one jutsu and blow everyone else to smithereens (so I'm saying the pacing of the battle is quite good.)
-Naruto and Hinata interaction ^^
-POWER... OVERWHELMING.
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Everyone is too obsessed with the term "overpowered." This is Naruto, not Dragon Ball Z. When the conditions are right, a very powerful ninja can lose to a less powerful ninja, because strength isn't the only variable at play. Here are just a few other variables:
- how fatigued each ninja is going into the fight
- how much battle experience each ninja has had recently (ex. the Third Hokage hadn't had any serious fights in a while when he was killed)
- each ninja's weaknesses (sometimes a weak ninja just happens to have abilities that counter those of a stronger opponent; for example, a strong ninja may be particularly vulnerable to genjutsu)
- each ninja's strengths (the First Hokage could influence Bijuu, so he had an advantage that no one else has when battling the Nine Tails)
- the numbers (both the First and Second Hokage died fighting battles where they were severely outnumbered; but the Fourth Hokage's special teleportation jutsu actually gave him an advantage when outnumbered)
- random factors like surprise attacks, hidden techniques, physical and emotional states, having to protect other people while fighting, etc (ex. Orochimaru losing to Sasuke because he was too sick to fight with his full strength)
- etc
So the next time you feel that ninja A should (or shouldn't) have beaten ninja B, consider the above.
Similarly, increases in skill rely on a ton of factors. Namely:
- amount of chakra (ex. Kakashi doesn't have shit for chakra)
- the ninja's intelligence (ex. Sasuke is pretty smart)
- special genetic abilities (ex. the Nine-tailed fox's chakra = mass shadow clones = Naruto can learn shit fast, despite being stupid)
- how much time you spend training (note that the ninjas who actually train or do research get stronger, but the ninjas who constantly fight and go on missions don't have time to develop new techniques)
- who you train with (ex. Sasuke abandoned Kakashi's training to learn from Orochimaru, obv because he's a better teacher)
- etc
So the next time you feel that ninja A is leveling up too fast or too slow compared to everyone else, consider the above.
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On October 20 2011 02:28 travis wrote:
Ok, so if Tobi isn't Madara then Naruto's dad was confused? Because he said that the leaf was attacked by Madara.
He probably thought that as well. 4th prolly was misled to believe so falsely just like the rest now. Though the more interesting question is how the nine tails has reacted to Tobi yet? Because he probably knows the real Madara, and there has been no mention of this yet.
My guess of the next chapters - Naruto sees his friends dies, he has no chakra left, gets angry and goes 9 tails apeshit crazy mode and destroys everything including Madaras puny little meteor, haha
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my question is why isn't Madara under the control of Kabuto? All the others were except for Itachi. Do Uchiha have like an immunity to being controlled or something?
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On October 21 2011 00:56 ThePhan2m wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 02:28 travis wrote:
Ok, so if Tobi isn't Madara then Naruto's dad was confused? Because he said that the leaf was attacked by Madara. He probably thought that as well. 4th prolly was misled to believe so falsely just like the rest now. Though the more interesting question is how the nine tails has reacted to Tobi yet? Because he probably knows the real Madara, and there has been no mention of this yet. My guess of the next chapters - Naruto sees his friends dies, he has no chakra left, gets angry and goes 9 tails apeshit crazy mode and destroys everything including Madaras puny little meteor, haha
Calling it:
Tobi = 4th Hokage = Naruto's Dad
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On October 21 2011 09:35 viletomato wrote:
my question is why isn't Madara under the control of Kabuto? All the others were except for Itachi. Do Uchiha have like an immunity to being controlled or something?
Who says he isn't under control?
Kabuto is just willingly giving him free reign like he was with some of the other dead ninjers.
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On October 21 2011 00:24 Courthead wrote:
Everyone is too obsessed with the term "overpowered." This is Naruto, not Dragon Ball Z. When the conditions are right, a very powerful ninja can lose to a less powerful ninja, because strength isn't the only variable at play. Here are just a few other variables:
- how fatigued each ninja is going into the fight
- how much battle experience each ninja has had recently (ex. the Third Hokage hadn't had any serious fights in a while when he was killed)
- each ninja's weaknesses (sometimes a weak ninja just happens to have abilities that counter those of a stronger opponent; for example, a strong ninja may be particularly vulnerable to genjutsu)
- each ninja's strengths (the First Hokage could influence Bijuu, so he had an advantage that no one else has when battling the Nine Tails)
- the numbers (both the First and Second Hokage died fighting battles where they were severely outnumbered; but the Fourth Hokage's special teleportation jutsu actually gave him an advantage when outnumbered)
- random factors like surprise attacks, hidden techniques, physical and emotional states, having to protect other people while fighting, etc (ex. Orochimaru losing to Sasuke because he was too sick to fight with his full strength)
- etc
So the next time you feel that ninja A should (or shouldn't) have beaten ninja B, consider the above.
Similarly, increases in skill rely on a ton of factors. Namely:
- amount of chakra (ex. Kakashi doesn't have shit for chakra)
- the ninja's intelligence (ex. Sasuke is pretty smart)
- special genetic abilities (ex. the Nine-tailed fox's chakra = mass shadow clones = Naruto can learn shit fast, despite being stupid)
- how much time you spend training (note that the ninjas who actually train or do research get stronger, but the ninjas who constantly fight and go on missions don't have time to develop new techniques)
- who you train with (ex. Sasuke abandoned Kakashi's training to learn from Orochimaru, obv because he's a better teacher)
- etc
So the next time you feel that ninja A is leveling up too fast or too slow compared to everyone else, consider the above.
Yo man, you've got it all wrong... The dude that wins is the dude that Kishimoto wants to make win, ain't got nothing to do with power, skill or whatever other nonsense. Like Toriyama did with Dragon Ball, when the series was new, he found interesting ways of making fights dynamic and usually involve "tricks" or what not to win. But as the series got older (particularly after the time skips in both series), both authors ran out of ways to make fights interesting, hence the degradation into deciding fights based on "Power Level." Kao Ken, Kao Ken x2, Kao Ken x 10, then Super Saiyen, Super Saien 2, 3, etc. completely mirror the different levels of Sharingan or adding more tails to Naruto's fox form.
Basically, all those factors you're talking about haven't been relevant since the time skip. Kishimoto simply ran out of ideas so has reverted everything to just being about gaining more "power level," regardless of what you decide to call "power level."
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EPT
