On July 29 2011 22:51 SxYSpAz wrote: i am so glad i viewed this thread. I've been calling metalcore "death metal" for years. I feel really stupid now that this difference is extremely clear.
I guess i just don't hear any mainstream death metal, but the genre is said more than metalcore by far
DM isn't mainstream. The closest death metal ever got to mainstream was in the early to mid 90s when mtv would occasionally acknowledge it.
And I guess as far as the most widely known band that people who aren't really into the genre would have heard of is Cannibal Corpse.
Morbid Angel is pretty well known for Death Metal. I would say even more so than CC.
I'd also like to note that the new Fleshgod is pretty awful and boring considering how good Oracles was. The guitars are like hidden underneath all of the orchestral noise. It's like they are trying to draw attention from it. They are known as a Brutal Death metal band and this sounds like it will be kind of mediocre. This is of course my opinion.
I like the new Fleshgod album, the first half less so, but it picks up in the second half. Not sure what all the complaints I'm hearing of guitars being hidden as they are audible the whole way through with only a couple of moments being the exception. It's definitely not the emphasis of the album though. I'm a fan of Oracles too, but not Mafia, find mafia after thru our scars to be boring as hell.
My real complaint is that the guitars are pretty weak. Brutal death is pretty guitar oriented, Obviously it is heavily drum oriented as well. I listen to my friends drool over the drumming in that one song, I'm like "that is pretty standard for the genre." Then they are always claiming I'm a troll and a hipster.
Eh, I can hear the guitars pretty clearly, and I've changed my mind. The entire album is awesome, there are only a couple of bits where the orchestral bits sound disjointed and random. I take it from your comment you've only heard The Violation? The album version is a lot meatier than the version on youtube, guitars a lot clearer. The drumming style is pretty standard, but the drummer is one of the faster around. Yeah, my friends call me that too, bastards :D
Yeah. I've only listened to the one song.I usually have a list of stuff that I plan on listening to just waiting on my itunes. The one song kind really didn't pique my interests for the album that much. I just meant that the guitars didn't really interest me. Which is why they kind of just fell into the background for me. But a lot of it comes down to personal preference. I feel like my friends call me that because I criticize some of he music they post sometimes. They are huge into the current metalcore scene. Definitely not my thing.
It is. Dissection is Black Metal but whatever, Storm is a great album. I see that you listed Slaughter of the Soul. Have you listened to The Red in the Sky is Ours by At the Gates? Awesome melodeath.
Also if you haven't listened to this album. I'd suggest it heavily. Such a great Melodic DM album.
On August 01 2011 09:50 BulldogBCN wrote: is melodic death metal allowed in this thread? to be honest, all those sub-genre discussions kinda bore me... i'll just post some of my favourites.
Also that is an EXCELLENT Dissection song, one of my very favorites.
As far as melodic death metal goes I see no harm in allowing it to be posted as we already have several being posted, I feel that to secure the integrity of the debate sticking to the original melodic DM sound is better. This is bands like At the Gates which you just linked : )
Here is a personal favorite from the Heartwork album by Carcass, the mother of all melodic DM.
On August 01 2011 10:51 ZombieNostalgia wrote: It is. Dissection is Black Metal but whatever, Storm is a great album. I see that you listed Slaughter of the Soul. Have you listened to The Red in the Sky is Ours by At the Gates? Awesome melodeath.
Also if you haven't listened to this album. I'd suggest it heavily. Such a great Melodic DM album. + Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Mi9xktQaPo
yes, i have listened to the red sky is ours. i do prefer slaughter, though... mainly because of the vocals.
also, thanks for the suggestion, i'll check it out.
On August 01 2011 11:04 TheBamf wrote:
Dissection is BM, melodic BM but still BM
Also that is an EXCELLENT Dissection song, one of my very favorites.
As far as melodic death metal goes I see no harm in allowing it to be posted as we already have several being posted, I feel that to secure the integrity of the debate sticking to the original melodic DM sound is better. This is bands like At the Gates which you just linked : )
Here is a personal favorite from the Heartwork album by Carcass, the mother of all melodic DM.
about dissection... i've seen people put them in all kinds of (sub-)genres. like i said, i try not to care too much about debates like these. all i know is that storm of the light's bane is one of my favourite metal albums of all time.
the "original melodic DM sound" doesn't incluce TBDM, i guess? :D i always get flamed for liking them, i don't quite understand why. these guys are just brilliant (especially live)... one of the few newer bands that have awakened a kind of fanboyism in me that i hadn't had in years. :D
TBDM would be an example were the instrumentation and especially the production is the key thing that is noteably different from the melodic DM sound I am reffering to : )
On August 01 2011 12:10 TheBamf wrote: TBDM would be an example were the instrumentation and especially the production is the key thing that is noteably different from the melodic DM sound I am reffering to : )
haha okay, i can accept these terms (at least it's not the usual "TBDM are deathcore!" rants i get to hear in threads like these ;D).
i guess folk DM might also be too different for this thread (*cough* + Show Spoiler +
)... so i'm going to post another great gothenburg DM band that hasn't yet come up in this thread (i think):
I love you all so much. Those who post Death, Decapitated, Carcass, Dissection, At The Gates, Bloodbath we must make sex now. Please everyone who loves this add me: Nihility.881 We can have super-fun-death-metal-starcraft-time :D Don't forget Opeth
The Black Dahlia Murder follow the Gothenburg style. That's the type of melodeath. I don't really have a huge melodic death metal collection. Ill get some more for you though. I can really go into depth since it's not something I listen to a bunch but it's pretty good.
I'm sure I can find one or two more somewhere. I'm way more rehearsed in OSDM. Them riffs just make me hypnotized. So awesome. Milwaukee OSDM. It's a DM gem.
On July 31 2011 08:42 couches wrote: Woops, missed that post.
It's all good. Disma needs more attention.
Also that Hour of Penance album isnt that new being from 2010. That being said it is a very enjoyable technical brutal death album. Not boring, something a lot of brutal bands fall victim to.
It may seem that I'm nit picking your post. It's just what I do. I guess I like to talk too much about music. lol.
No problem. Maybe recent was a better way to put it. Regardless, it's not like it's old stuff.
It's easy to sound boring when the focus of many bands is merely to sound as brutal and heavy as possible without regard to anything else.
On August 01 2011 10:51 ZombieNostalgia wrote: It is. Dissection is Black Metal but whatever,
On August 01 2011 11:04 TheBamf wrote: Dissection is BM, melodic BM but still BM
NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE
I don't get where people are coming from when they say this... Dissection weren't related to the black metal scene or aesthetics, the music shares SOME aspects with SOME bands of the early second wave, but in the core its still death metal. Hell, there are a lot of death metal bands we could call black metal if Dissection could be labeled as such.
On August 01 2011 08:31 TheBamf wrote: Well that can be said by all sub genres..
Indeed, which is why (if you find it stimulating or relevant to discuss genres at all, otherwise I'd advise the people who care to voice their opinions and end it with "But in the end it doesn't matter!" to digress) I myself like to define the lines between the genres. In my opinion a lot of bands that didn't play black metal back in the 80's/early 90's got labeled as black metal simply because the old definition of the genre still was around. Are your lyrics and aesthetics "satanic"? Then its black metal! But these days we have more clear cut definitions, the genre has crystallized and know that isn't the case. Early Mercyful Fate isn't black metal. Early Slayer isn't black metal. Venom is a hybrid of thrash/punk/heavy metal, Hellhammer/Celtic Frost some weird hybrid of everything between heaven and hell... And so forth.
On August 01 2011 11:04 TheBamf wrote: Dissection is BM, melodic BM but still BM
NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE
I don't get where people are coming from when they say this... Dissection weren't related to the black metal scene or aesthetics, the music shares SOME aspects with SOME bands of the early second wave, but in the core its still death metal. Hell, there are a lot of death metal bands we could call black metal if Dissection could be labeled as such.
On August 01 2011 08:31 TheBamf wrote: Well that can be said by all sub genres..
Indeed, which is why (if you find it stimulating or relevant to discuss genres at all, otherwise I'd advise the people who care to voice their opinions and end it with "But in the end it doesn't matter!" to digress) I myself like to define the lines between the genres. In my opinion a lot of bands that didn't play black metal back in the 80's/early 90's got labeled as black metal simply because the old definition of the genre still was around. Are your lyrics and aesthetics "satanic"? Then its black metal! But these days we have more clear cut definitions, the genre has crystallized and know that isn't the case. Early Mercyful Fate isn't black metal. Early Slayer isn't black metal. Venom is a hybrid of thrash/punk/heavy metal, Hellhammer/Celtic Frost some weird hybrid of everything between heaven and hell... And so forth.
First of all, the whole "genres" doesnt matter is self-defeating of your long-ish paragraph. Genres do matter, just beacuse you put up a set of very loose standards does not mean that the genres hold no value beyond the historical aspects as individual genres.
Here are my points for Dissection's The Somberlain being BM:
1) Obvious first, he often utilizises the black metal shrieks.
2) The song structure. DM focused far mroe on the kick ass than "epic" melodic interludes etc. the time, listen to the first track "Black Horizons" for examples. Take the part at 5:40 as an obvious tell.
Also I have listened to a fair share of death metal at the time and I think it would be unfair to say that the DM sound resembled The Somberlain more than the BM sound.
On August 01 2011 11:04 TheBamf wrote: Dissection is BM, melodic BM but still BM
NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE
I don't get where people are coming from when they say this... Dissection weren't related to the black metal scene or aesthetics, the music shares SOME aspects with SOME bands of the early second wave, but in the core its still death metal. Hell, there are a lot of death metal bands we could call black metal if Dissection could be labeled as such.
On August 01 2011 08:31 TheBamf wrote: Well that can be said by all sub genres..
Indeed, which is why (if you find it stimulating or relevant to discuss genres at all, otherwise I'd advise the people who care to voice their opinions and end it with "But in the end it doesn't matter!" to digress) I myself like to define the lines between the genres. In my opinion a lot of bands that didn't play black metal back in the 80's/early 90's got labeled as black metal simply because the old definition of the genre still was around. Are your lyrics and aesthetics "satanic"? Then its black metal! But these days we have more clear cut definitions, the genre has crystallized and know that isn't the case. Early Mercyful Fate isn't black metal. Early Slayer isn't black metal. Venom is a hybrid of thrash/punk/heavy metal, Hellhammer/Celtic Frost some weird hybrid of everything between heaven and hell... And so forth.
Of course, its debatable.I
I regard black metal as being aesthetically pretty different from the other kinds of metal, and also as one of the hardest genres to pin down in a description. Most black metal nowadays follows the blueprint developed by Norway in the early 90s, meaning look for grainy production, melodic, tremolo picked riffs(tremolo picking is just picking one note over and over very quickly), and "blast beat"-based drumming. Early advocates of this style include Darkthrone, Mayhem, and Emperor. However, like the other genres, there's no shortage of variety.
Dissection definitely can be listed under all of these characteristics. Especially the album that was mentioned. They may not do it as much other bands that are considered by everyone to be Black Metal but they do it enough to be considered it.
On July 31 2011 08:42 couches wrote: Woops, missed that post.
It's all good. Disma needs more attention.
Also that Hour of Penance album isnt that new being from 2010. That being said it is a very enjoyable technical brutal death album. Not boring, something a lot of brutal bands fall victim to.
It may seem that I'm nit picking your post. It's just what I do. I guess I like to talk too much about music. lol.
No problem. Maybe recent was a better way to put it. Regardless, it's not like it's old stuff.
It's easy to sound boring when the focus of many bands is merely to sound as brutal and heavy as possible without regard to anything else.
My favorite is the one note breakdown that last forever because they think it's brutal. It's torurous to listen to and I don't see how it's appealing when other bands do it better. My main gripe with people is they claim X to be so amazing when there are so many bands that do it better, however it is subjective to a degree. I wouldn't deny that. I believe tis album came out last year. It's pretty good. Especially for BDM.
EPT
