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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
Was listening to the audio book yesterday and I had a theory.
What if Jon is reborn in Victarions body?
Only 2 pieces of evidence that I could come up with:
1. They are both connected with a red priest. They both have Azor Ahai possibilities. Moqorro telling Victarion that Rh'llor had great plans for him.
2. When Dany is in the House of the Undying and she is seeing things in the rooms. She sees a dead man on the prow of a ship followed by a blue flower growing from a chink in the ice.
It would be a nice little way for GRRM to get Jon over to Dany relatively soon. He could be taken to Melisandre then reborn into Victarion in Meeren. He would keep his warging abilities and be able to switch from Victarion to Ghost.
Pretty far fetched I know but that what you do when you got a 5 year wait on your hands.
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On June 18 2012 01:11 Flik wrote:
Was listening to the audio book yesterday and I had a theory.
What if Jon is reborn in Victarions body?
Only 2 pieces of evidence that I could come up with:
1. They are both connected with a red priest. They both have Azor Ahai possibilities. Moqorro telling Victarion that Rh'llor had great plans for him.
2. When Dany is in the House of the Undying and she is seeing things in the rooms. She sees a dead man on the prow of a ship followed by a blue flower growing from a chink in the ice.
It would be a nice little way for GRRM to get Jon over to Dany relatively soon. He could be taken to Melisandre then reborn into Victarion in Meeren. He would keep his warging abilities and be able to switch from Victarion to Ghost.
Pretty far fetched I know but that what you do when you got a 5 year wait on your hands.
Interesting idea but I think the visions Dany had weren't meant to be connected like that. I'm inclined to think they just happened to be in that order. Also, I don't think Jon is powerful enough a warg to go into somebody so far away from him. Melisandre hasn't mentioned anything about other priests or Victarion either.
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Yea, but of all those people Jon is the most believable. Well Danny too, it's a toss up. I mean we all know it's not Stannis. Maybe it was Rhaegar, and when he was killed, it jumped to Danny. The storm during her birth was the prophecy jumping.
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On June 18 2012 01:11 Flik wrote:
Was listening to the audio book yesterday and I had a theory.
What if Jon is reborn in Victarions body?
Only 2 pieces of evidence that I could come up with:
1. They are both connected with a red priest. They both have Azor Ahai possibilities. Moqorro telling Victarion that Rh'llor had great plans for him.
2. When Dany is in the House of the Undying and she is seeing things in the rooms. She sees a dead man on the prow of a ship followed by a blue flower growing from a chink in the ice.
It would be a nice little way for GRRM to get Jon over to Dany relatively soon. He could be taken to Melisandre then reborn into Victarion in Meeren. He would keep his warging abilities and be able to switch from Victarion to Ghost.
Pretty far fetched I know but that what you do when you got a 5 year wait on your hands.
That would be strange, they are so far away and the priest(ess)es dont know about each other so it s really unlikely. Sure, it's magic so anything can happen, but it s unreasonable.
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Dragon fire could well be the flaming sword, assuming as seems safe that everything in such prophecies is subject to metaphor and "sword" is simply "weapon".
Keep in mind the other theory regarding the fiery sword/lightbringer as being the night's watch though, which again points to Jon.
It is hard to argue with Dany being born amid salt and smoke, twice even and under a "bleeding star", and being the one to have woken stone dragons. The dragon one seems about insurmountable to overrule unless more dragons were to show up which seems about inconceivably unlikely.
I'm going to go with "the dragon has three heads" at which point the most interesting question is back to that of who is the third head? Faegon, Victarion, and Stannis all seem pretty weak in their claims and by most counts Rhaegar should be dead except for that crazy, far out of left field near zero and incompatible with having been a nights watch member possibility that he is coldhands.
If Jaime, the character who has been built up as the most interesting in the whole story except maybe Tyrion and most complex period and who has not reached any real 'conclusion', is simply killed off "off screen" amidst the dubious "wtf exactly is going on with Stoneheart/BWB and Brienne?" I think we'd know for sure the GRRM has given up and just wants to be done with the series.
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What's the origin of all this I've seen about Aegon being a fake? Any hints other than the fact that it kinda came out of nowhere? I guess it could be seen as some last desperate attempt by Connington to reclaim his lands and honor, but both Varys and Illyrio have known about Dany for a long time and they wouldn't really need a fake Aegon if she would just bring her dragons to Westeros. I hope he is the real deal anyhow, as it would be interesting to see how that plays out when Daenerys inevitably sets out for home at long last.
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Quaithe, who seems to be somewhat omniscient and true though her warnings to Dany are few and cryptic, referred to "the Griffon and his mummer's dragon". The Griffon has to be Connington of course, and the one known person who might be a "mummer's dragon" would be this Aegon.
Otherwise it's just the...feel of it all. It's so late to be introducing this new important character, and it's a kinda weird smelling twist to suddenly have one of Rhaegar's children alive after all.
If he is fake then in all likelyhood the only person in the story to know so is Varys. Connington clearly thinks it is the real Aegon at least, and if he wasn't in on it who would be? Lemore is the one other person in that company who seems to have some mystery left to her and might be important somehow and be in the know on the truth of what is going on there.
As for Varys' motive, he wants someone who he was able to see groomed to be a good king on the throne. If he has to lie about that person's background to help make it happen so what...he's the spider, cloak and dagger information games are his thing. Illyrio may or may not be entirely "in" on the truth of it if Aegon is fake, but otherwise it seems perfectly plausible that his motives are likewise. He said as much to Tyrion.
Being fake does not mean Varys' scheme with him is going to fail though it might get him burninated if the circumstances of his reveal to the dragons/Dany are poor and it does limit his potential for being the third head.
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Thanks for clearing that up, it's easy to miss stuff in this 5000 page monster of complexity. Suppose I should get started on the Dunk and Egg series. Anyone who's read them, how good are they compared to the main books of ASoIaF?
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On June 18 2012 23:00 Mataru wrote:
Thanks for clearing that up, it's easy to miss stuff in this 5000 page monster of complexity. Suppose I should get started on the Dunk and Egg series. Anyone who's read them, how good are they compared to the main books of ASoIaF?
I fond them pretty interesting. They're quite short as well so even if you don't like them its not much time lost. It also gives you some good background on the series.
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On June 18 2012 23:00 Mataru wrote:
Thanks for clearing that up, it's easy to miss stuff in this 5000 page monster of complexity. Suppose I should get started on the Dunk and Egg series. Anyone who's read them, how good are they compared to the main books of ASoIaF?
the first one is really cool, the second one is worth reading more for the Blackfyre rebellion background info rather than the actual action of the shortstory, the third one, meh, to me it was a bit cheesy, the typical OMG something HUGE and earthshaking is gonna happen... AH, nvm, everything s back to normal.
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How did you guys get the Dunk and Egg books? The Hedge Knight is $240 on amazon. It seems like it's also available in this "Legends" collection but based on the comments I can't be sure if its actually in there or not.
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On June 19 2012 01:20 scudst0rm wrote:
How did you guys get the Dunk and Egg books? The Hedge Knight is $240 on amazon. It seems like it's also available in this "Legends" collection but based on the comments I can't be sure if its actually in there or not.
I found them in one of Martin's collections. Luckily it was at the library for me.
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On June 19 2012 01:20 scudst0rm wrote:
How did you guys get the Dunk and Egg books? The Hedge Knight is $240 on amazon. It seems like it's also available in this "Legends" collection but based on the comments I can't be sure if its actually in there or not.
holy shit, 240$? are you kidding me? you can get all 5 books together for a lot less.
Anyways, it's not allowed to post copyright infringing material, but if u dont want to pay u'll find it on the net for free
searching for a GRRM collection might be the quickest way, though im sure u could find them individually too
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Somehow the issue of if Dany can be burnt, or if she is "immune to fire" to use our rpg terms, was brought up in the other thread and a couple people were speaking confidently that she can (or she is not immune to fire). I'd never seen any conclusive statement one way or another and in a few minutes searching cannot find one; however, events in the books had me confident that the answer is no, she cannot burn. Which is it?
The wiki says of those of blood of the dragon in general, on the Targaryen page, that they can be burned though they do have a significant tolerance for heat. This is obvious considering that plenty of Targaryens died in fires and the like as any normal person would. Drinking wildfire is a bad idea, mmmkay, etc.
Dany has been in a couple fires and not been burned and touched a few would be burn causing things without issue. The claim is that she was protected by the blood magic ritual she (accidentally?) invoked at Drogo's funeral pyre. Reasonable enough for the one event, but what about later events like when Drogon engulfs her and her hair and most of her clothing is incinerated but she is fine? Or even the minor events like with the brazier? I'll concede minor mentions of how heat didn't bother her while others were visibly sweltering as that can be covered by what is described for all Targaryens.
Allegedly there is a GRRM quote saying she is "not immune to fire", that would be useful to see but even if there is such a statement I'd doubt it's continued truth unless it post dated the publish of Dance considering what happened in that pit.
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On June 20 2012 14:33 Irrelevant Label wrote:
Somehow the issue of if Dany can be burnt, or if she is "immune to fire" to use our rpg terms, was brought up in the other thread and a couple people were speaking confidently that she can (or she is not immune to fire). I'd never seen any conclusive statement one way or another and in a few minutes searching cannot find one; however, events in the books had me confident that the answer is no, she cannot burn. Which is it?
The wiki says of those of blood of the dragon in general, on the Targaryen page, that they can be burned though they do have a significant tolerance for heat. This is obvious considering that plenty of Targaryens died in fires and the like as any normal person would. Drinking wildfire is a bad idea, mmmkay, etc.
Dany has been in a couple fires and not been burned and touched a few would be burn causing things without issue. The claim is that she was protected by the blood magic ritual she (accidentally?) invoked at Drogo's funeral pyre. Reasonable enough for the one event, but what about later events like when Drogon engulfs her and her hair and most of her clothing is incinerated but she is fine? Or even the minor events like with the brazier? I'll concede minor mentions of how heat didn't bother her while others were visibly sweltering as that can be covered by what is described for all Targaryens.
Allegedly there is a GRRM quote saying she is "not immune to fire", that would be useful to see but even if there is such a statement I'd doubt it's continued truth unless it post dated the publish of Dance considering what happened in that pit.
because shes a real "mother " of dragons and not all Targaryen have the dragon blood. Her borther obvious not.
"Every time a Targaryen is born, the gods throw a coin"
Some are crazy some are "dragonborn"
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About all the speculations: Most of the time the obvious is the truth.
Perhaps he change it now after everyone knows allready.
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I believe in aDwD her hands were blistered by dragonfire, so it looks like a very high resistance but not immunity. I'm at work so I can't check the book for sure. For that discussion, however, she's immune as that is what has been shown on TV.
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EPT
