Fnatic has made a lot of SEA teams look really stupid with SF lately. There's a lot more Stacking happening in the early game, but it normally works better against a line-up that does well with an early BKB. BKB ain't doing too much against Newbee.

roronoe

Canada1527 Posts

June 09 2016 11:21 GMT

#745

On June 09 2016 20:20 Tegenaria wrote:
I am happy to see a team remenber that SF exist.
He is still a f*cking good mid game hero IMO

yeah, but all of newbee's heroes this game are pretty good vs sf unfortunately

Elurie

4716 Posts

June 09 2016 11:21 GMT

#746

On June 09 2016 20:19 juff wrote:
i feel like mushi picks SF vs weaver just to try to recreate his ti3 moment

LOL I remember that game. It was Burning on weaver, right?

Althought if he wanted to recreate that game, they would have Slardar, DS, Nyx.

bourne117

United States837 Posts

June 09 2016 11:22 GMT

#747

On June 09 2016 20:14 nojok wrote:

Show nested quote +

On June 09 2016 20:10 bourne117 wrote:

On June 09 2016 20:04 Toadesstern wrote:

On June 09 2016 19:59 Taf the Ghost wrote:

On June 09 2016 19:56 bourne117 wrote:

On June 09 2016 19:51 Taf the Ghost wrote:

On June 09 2016 19:47 bourne117 wrote:

On June 09 2016 19:44 Dracolich70 wrote:

On June 09 2016 19:41 ncsix wrote:
oh well.. the terribad MVP turned up today. At least they have 1 more chance to get their shit together. It ain't over yet.

OG made them "terribad". When a team is that predictable, you are bound to map them down. Happened to CDEC too.

MVP execution in fights was HORRENDOUS compared to how they normally are. When MVP is playing well they are top 3 teamfighting teams in the world easily. Today they looked just lost in fights. Like they would miss a lot of their spells have people escape with barely any hp regularly. The reason MVP is a good team isn't the aggression so much as how good they are in the actual fights. They take fights other teams can't and win them handily a lot. Today they weren't even close to that level. OG obviously deserves a ton of credit for reading MVPs movement but stuff like axe just flat wiffing his cull when he could have waited 1 second for ember to chain and then do it isn't something OG forced on them but just MVP playing poorly.

MVP is actually a really tilt-y team. A bad laning phase (which happened twice), tends to throw off their execution. And that supremely smooth team-fight execution is what wins them games. It's also why there's no "decent days" for them. They're either riding High or being rolled over. Though the fact they don't give up is to their credit. Fantasy GG Timing and all that.

I would agree they can be very tilty to an extent but I don't think its from a bad laning phase. Go watch game 1 vs EG in the group stage. They were getting ROLLED in the laning stage and then as soon as they started fighting EG was just completely done for. MVP got tilted today but it wasn't from a laning stage issue but from the way the first couple fights went game 1. They were uncharacteristically bad for MVP. MVP is normally one of the best teamfighting teams in dota and today they just looked completely lost.

I agree, but MVP has actually had a pretty bad tournament. They really, really should have gone out 4th in their group. They had to pull off something that's only happened once before in LAN Dota, and that only happened because Julz couldn't land a Shallow Grave for 15 minutes.

While they beat Liquid, it was really Liquid that looked unprepared and their carries were having a pretty bad day, far more than MVP was extremely smooth in their team-fighting.

I still think MVP is going to be 3rd or 4th here at Manila, which is great for them, but they've got a lot of work to be ready to contend at TI6.

yeah agree. MVP basicly looked really shaky the whole tournament except for that one series vs Liquid (

). I had them going out between 12th and 8th place after seeing them in the groupstage and suddenly they show up vs Liquid and just dominate.
And today it was back to what we saw them be like in the groupstage. If they play the same way vs LGD/VGR I'd say they're certainly the underdog again. If they get their shit together and have another series like they did vs Liquid they're going to shit on either LGD or VGR

Today was much worse showing than anything from the group stage for MVP. MVP should have won game 2 vs LGD but threw HARD. SEA teams have always played MVP much better than anyone else and MVP wasn't at their best so almost losing to mineiski isn't THAT surprising. Then they made EG look like an even worse team than they are. It was a below average performance for MVP. Today was the worse I have seen MVP play on lan in a LONG time.

Well OG played perfectly, specially in game 2. MVP did not play that bad, they got outlaned and OG offered them absolutely nothing to come back, not a single opening, and pushed their advantage very cleanly.

I strongly disagree that MVP didn't play that bad. Maybe the overall game wasn't that bad but what makes MVP a tier 1 team is their fighting. If MVP isn't able to fight well they are very bad. Today their teamfight execution looked much worse than I have ever seen from them. MVP is normally one of the best teamfighting teams in dota and today they weren't even close to that. They just weren't playing together in the fights. Missing spells. That isn't the normal MVP or even remotely close to it. Even in the group stage when they weren't looking great they were taking fights MUCH better than that.

Taf the Ghost

United States11751 Posts

June 09 2016 11:22 GMT

#748

SOMEONE FINALLY PUTS THE DAMN WARD DOWN TO PREVENT THE CHUAN ROTATION!

SOMEONE LEARNED!

I'm not a Newbee fan, but that gank is something Chuan does every damn game on Dire. Almost by clockwork. And no one is damn prepared for it.

LemOn

United Kingdom8629 Posts

June 09 2016 11:24 GMT

#749

Aww that's so sweet, DJ thinks he's Jerax

Taf the Ghost

United States11751 Posts

June 09 2016 11:26 GMT

#750

As a strategic point, if Fnatic can keep the split-push going in the mid-game, it's a good counter to Newbee. Newbee really likes to group up and protect Ancient Farm. Then they over-rotate to gank attempts. You can really pick apart their towers and pull them apart.

Not sure Fnatic can do it, but it's really how you prepare for Newbee.

nojok

France15846 Posts

June 09 2016 11:27 GMT

#751

WTF, jungle beast master lvl 8 at min 8 :o

Kreb

4834 Posts

June 09 2016 11:28 GMT

#752

Lifestealer getting all this space completely on his own without a single bit of help in Newbees offlane is surely a mistake from Fnatic....

roronoe

Canada1527 Posts

June 09 2016 11:28 GMT

#753

great rotation from fnatic

Taf the Ghost

United States11751 Posts

June 09 2016 11:29 GMT

#754

Ah, Fnatic is using their Anti-MVP playbook. Early game Newbee is fairly similar. Though Newbee is much, much more defensive in the mid-game.

sc14s

United States5052 Posts

June 09 2016 11:30 GMT

#755

On June 09 2016 20:28 Kreb wrote:
Lifestealer getting all this space completely on his own without a single bit of help in Newbees offlane is surely a mistake from Fnatic....

this tri-core just needs to go late so its okay for naix to farm when he will get shredded if the enemy team farms into the late game.

Taf the Ghost

United States11751 Posts

June 09 2016 11:31 GMT

#756

On June 09 2016 20:30 sc14s wrote:

Show nested quote +

this tri-core just needs to go late so its okay for naix to farm when he will get shredded if the enemy team farms into the late game.

But then Kpii has to carry Newbee.

That's going to end badly. Just saying.

Kreb

4834 Posts

June 09 2016 11:31 GMT