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Dead9
United States4725 Posts
force, ghost, urn, vlads, sange, and medallion are all better items in a similar price range do you really need a 5th drum charge? yeah 75 gold is only two lasthits, but all of your item timings will be slightly later for it, and the 5th drum charge probably won't even kick in until 5 or more minutes later | ||
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Staboteur
Canada1873 Posts
On February 07 2014 15:31 Dead9 wrote: supports should pretty much never get drums force, ghost, urn, vlads, sange, and medallion are all better items in a similar price range do you really need a 5th drum charge? yeah 75 gold is only two lasthits, but all of your item timings will be slightly later for it, and the 5th drum charge probably won't even kick in until 5 or more minutes later 75 gold is too small of a value to actually impact timings. You're about as likely to lose those up-to-50ish-seconds waiting for other people that are fucking around with the courier than you are to lose anything tangible to such a minor increase in cost. Besides, a lot of the appeal of drums is its convenient buildup, which is not present in a lot of the items you're mentioning. Force, ghost, and vlads all have 900+ gold components that don't give you anything you typically need as a support. Not sure how sange is better than drums. | ||
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Dead9
United States4725 Posts
even ignoring that, there's the opportunity cost of going drums in the first place. sure it's only 75 gold more than before, but going for drums already delays your lategame items. you could be 1.8k closer to whatever other item by simply not buying drums at all like spectre could go phase vit booster instead of phase drums and have a bunch of extra gold toward relic. ck could buy a bracer ogre axe instead and be much closer to bkb drums buildup isn't even that good. drums has a 450 gold component that does nothing and requires an 875 gold recipe besides that it's not even particularly hard to save 1k unless you're feeding constantly. ghost is mildly harder to get but really 1600 isn't that bad sange builds into halberd and provides nearly double the hp of drums | ||
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tauon
Australia1278 Posts
On February 07 2014 15:31 Dead9 wrote: supports should pretty much never get drums force, ghost, urn, vlads, sange, and medallion are all better items in a similar price range do you really need a 5th drum charge? yeah 75 gold is only two lasthits, but all of your item timings will be slightly later for it, and the 5th drum charge probably won't even kick in until 5 or more minutes later You list a set of a strong set of items but most of them are situational. As an aura item, the drum can be more useful than something like a vlads. Getting a drum also doesn't affect your ability to get a force staff etc. The point of the drum is that it can make your bracer more slot efficient later on. There is nothing wrong with leaving your drum as a bracer for 20 minutes. On February 07 2014 16:09 Dead9 wrote: drums is now 125 gold more expensive than the original drums even ignoring that, there's the opportunity cost of going drums in the first place. sure it's only 75 gold more than before, but going for drums already delays your lategame items. you could be 1.8k closer to whatever other item by simply not buying drums at all like spectre could go phase vit booster instead of phase drums and have a bunch of extra gold toward relic. ck could buy a bracer ogre axe instead and be much closer to bkb drums buildup isn't even that good. drums has a 450 gold component that does nothing and requires an 875 gold recipe besides that it's not even particularly hard to save 1k unless you're feeding constantly. ghost is mildly harder to get but really 1600 isn't that bad sange builds into halberd and provides nearly double the hp of drums You mentioned ogre axe vs drums on CK and vit vs drums on spec but drum fulfils a different role on those heroes than the items you suggested. Spec and CK suffer from a low mana pool and benefit greatly from all 3 stats and the ms. | ||
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Staboteur
Canada1873 Posts
On February 07 2014 16:09 Dead9 wrote: drums is now 125 gold more expensive than the original drums even ignoring that, there's the opportunity cost of going drums in the first place. sure it's only 75 gold more than before, but going for drums already delays your lategame items. you could be 1.8k closer to whatever other item by simply not buying drums at all like spectre could go phase vit booster instead of phase drums and have a bunch of extra gold toward relic. ck could buy a bracer ogre axe instead and be much closer to bkb drums buildup isn't even that good. drums has a 450 gold component that does nothing and requires an 875 gold recipe besides that it's not even particularly hard to save 1k unless you're feeding constantly. ghost is mildly harder to get but really 1600 isn't that bad sange builds into halberd and provides nearly double the hp of drums I feel like we're not talking about supports anymore, especially when we're talking about relatively casual sanges that can later be upgraded into halberds, or discounting the value of a mantle of int as part of the buildup of drums. Or you play manlier supports than I do. | ||
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Dead9
United States4725 Posts
supports don't make much use of any of the stats on drums other than the hp anyway. the movespeed is nice but not really comparable to a force | ||
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
maybe i should open a drums thread for this discussion | ||
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Cerberus2589
83 Posts
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Scorch
Austria3371 Posts
For example, let's say I have a Viper with a Sange & Yasha. 1) An enemy hits me and gets slowed by 25% by Corrosive Skin. 2) Then I hit him for 40% with Poison Attack. 3) I hit him with Poison Attack a second time, this time S&Y procs for another 32%. 4) The Corrosive Skin duration runs out but Poison Attack and S&Y are still active. How fast is the enemy at each stage? | ||
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Qbek
Poland12923 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On February 07 2014 19:20 Cerberus2589 wrote: Since Eye of Skadi stacks with Clinkz's Searing Arrows does Orb of Venom as well? Also since lifesteal stacks with Skadi does lifesteal stack with Skadi and Searing Arrows on Clinkz as well? Lifesteal does not stack with searing arrows so it stacking with skadi is irrelevant on clinkz. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On February 07 2014 13:05 Mataza wrote: I like drums, but more for the passive effects than the charges. The charges alone are not powerful enough to enable your team to do something. At least I have never heard "Run, they just activated a drum charge" or something similar. Ewww, passive effects of drums is absolutely meh, 2 bracers/wraiths/nulls or any combination of those is whole recipe cheaper while having almost the same passive effect (save for 5% MS, that is what... 18 MS on naga with boots), MS active is by far best thing they have. | ||
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oo_Wonderful_oo
The land of freedom23126 Posts
On February 07 2014 22:00 lolfail9001 wrote: Ewww, passive effects of drums is absolutely meh, 2 bracers/wraiths/nulls or any combination of those is whole recipe cheaper while having almost the same passive effect (save for 5% MS, that is what... 18 MS on naga with boots), MS active is by far best thing they have. Nah, are there a lot of people who use drums charges? I don't remember a single guy except my stack who used drums ONCE. | ||
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KOFgokuon
United States14912 Posts
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Jonoman92
United States9110 Posts
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xxpack09
United States2160 Posts
1) I felt like I needed a casual bracer in the early/mid-game to not die 2) It is mid/lategame now 3) No one else on the team built drums 4) I have unreliable gold to spend Giving your carry a bit of extra AS/MS is nothing to sneeze at IMO. I agree though that if your choice is between drums and a force/blink, you should always choose force/blink on a support. But after you already have one of those items, having an aura can be nice (cheaper than a vlads too, although the vlads admittedly has a MUCH better aura) | ||
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2847 Posts
I've always gone the classic orchid route and I've never had mana issues and seldom hp issues due to the ult. Envy is of course 100x the player I am so can someone explain the difference in real simple words  | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On February 08 2014 00:03 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote: Nah, are there a lot of people who use drums charges? I don't remember a single guy except my stack who used drums ONCE. I use them every team fight if i actually build them. Since it happens in one of 20 games, it is kinda rare. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On February 08 2014 05:04 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: Envy buys Soul Ring (and even bottle sometimes) on a farming Clinkz. I've always gone the classic orchid route and I've never had mana issues and seldom hp issues due to the ult. Envy is of course 100x the player I am so can someone explain the difference in real simple words Envy does not buy orchid hence soul ring. Clinkz is good soul ring user due to ult being a delayed heal and that soul ring will give you mana for using ult on cd. But since it's envy's build be careful following it :D | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
Soul ring allows him to use ult on CD and since he generally finishes it around the same time as his level 6 it allows him to farm in aggressive locations (the enemy jungle usually) without any concern about his HP. While he is still mana constrained until orchid, it helps a lot. Do note that orchid doesn't actually solve clinkz's mana issues single handedly, whereas orchid + soul ring does. If orchid is "solving" your mana issues as clinkz then you probably aren't spending enough mana to be efficient Envy also generally goes midas pre-orchid as well since at least in pubs "ganking" is pretty unreliable when your teammates are much worse than their teammates. A situation few share so pls no midas clinkz in pubs LOL | ||
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