EPTSimple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 771
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
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Excludos
Norway8277 Posts
On February 06 2014 16:44 synapse wrote: 75 gold for an extra charge that you wont use until 10 mins later, makes drums less cost efficient :T I was about to make a snarky sarcastic comment but decided to turn this into a more serious discussion instead. But still: are you kidding me? 75g is an extra creep and a half, for that you get an extra charge which is sorely needed..and now the item is suddenly not effective anymore? Or worse it, apparently, sucks..? I don't see how this changes anything. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
On February 06 2014 16:53 mizU wrote: Drums is still a good item, but it's not an item that can be gotten in (practically) all situations anymore That it isn't since they reduced the damage from 9 -> 3 Since then it was more of a movement/hp item. I wonder if it will become a 2k+ gold item with unlimited drum use and 90 second cooldown. | ||
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-Celestial-
United Kingdom3867 Posts
On February 06 2014 16:53 mizU wrote: Drums is still a good item, but it's not an item that can be gotten in (practically) all situations anymore I'd debate that to be honest. Its still got a nice buildup. Its1850 gold for +9 to all three stats. Plus the active. Plus a small damage boost. And it just got an extra charge last patch. I can't think of a situation where building it would be disadvantage. Its small item buildup gives you incremental stats as you build it that really helps and the item as a whole is still crazy cost efficient for what it does. | ||
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Mosoball
Finland686 Posts
On February 07 2014 00:32 -Celestial- wrote: I'd debate that to be honest. Its still got a nice buildup. Its1850 gold for +9 to all three stats. Plus the active. Plus a small damage boost. And it just got an extra charge last patch. I can't think of a situation where building it would be disadvantage. Its small item buildup gives you incremental stats as you build it that really helps and the item as a whole is still crazy cost efficient for what it does. As a support Ghost Scepter is so much better most of the time. Or blink dagger, that only requires a bit more gold. Those items actually do something for you. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On February 07 2014 00:32 -Celestial- wrote: I'd debate that to be honest. Its still got a nice buildup. Its1850 gold for +9 to all three stats. Plus the active. Plus a small damage boost. And it just got an extra charge last patch. I can't think of a situation where building it would be disadvantage. Its small item buildup gives you incremental stats as you build it that really helps and the item as a whole is still crazy cost efficient for what it does. The only good thing about drums is MS active. And honestly, on how many heroes do you really need even more MS after phase-yasha/euls/mom if you went racecar build. | ||
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rob.au
1087 Posts
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govie
9334 Posts
On February 07 2014 01:39 lolfail9001 wrote: The only good thing about drums is MS active. And honestly, on how many heroes do you really need even more MS after phase-yasha/euls/mom if you went racecar build. Have you ever tried to siege with and without a drum? the drum is often the difference in no tier 3 tower or a damaged tower. You buy the drums for pushing and the creepwaves seem to benefit alot. The drum is also nice if you have a carry with a low attackspeed which are played in alot of games. A drum isnt a garbage item, it just depends on the game and the strat thats being played. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On February 07 2014 03:15 govie wrote: Have you ever tried to siege with and without a drum? the drum is often the difference in no tier 3 tower or a damaged tower. You buy the drums for pushing and the creepwaves seem to benefit alot. The drum is also nice if you have a carry with a low attackspeed which are played in alot of games. A drum isnt a garbage item, it just depends on the game and the strat thats being played. Drum is not garbage item, it is good situational item. But drum is not always-good-item, like some make it out to be. Also, can i ask, is 24 attack speed that much :3? | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On February 07 2014 04:09 lolfail9001 wrote: Also, can i ask, is 24 attack speed that much :3? On most heroes it is an extra ~.14 attacks per second in all situations. I'll let you judge if that qualifies as "that much", although i'd personally go with not really. If you consider how much dmg the hero will do per extra attack that tells you the DPS increase, and if you think about how many attacks per second the hero already does that tells you the % increase in dmg you will see. | ||
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synapse
China13814 Posts
On February 06 2014 19:12 Excludos wrote: I was about to make a snarky sarcastic comment but decided to turn this into a more serious discussion instead. But still: are you kidding me? 75g is an extra creep and a half, for that you get an extra charge which is sorely needed..and now the item is suddenly not effective anymore? Or worse it, apparently, sucks..? I don't see how this changes anything. I'm not saying it's bad or people will suddenly stop buying it, but 75 extra gold for an extra charge IS a nerf since the whole point of drums is that it's cheap and cost efficient for early game. The extra charge likely comes into use much later in the game. If you were gonna buy it before, you'd probably still get it, but the item is now slightly more expensive for a delayed benefit. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8277 Posts
On February 07 2014 05:03 synapse wrote: I'm not saying it's bad or people will suddenly stop buying it, but 75 extra gold for an extra charge IS a nerf since the whole point of drums is that it's cheap and cost efficient for EARLY game. I'm not debating whether its a nerf, it obviously is. Its just so minuscule it doesn't change anything. Its still a great item with really good buildup. One and a half extra creep isn't going to push the item into lategame.. | ||
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synapse
China13814 Posts
On February 07 2014 05:06 Excludos wrote: I'm not debating whether its a nerf, it obviously is. Its just so minuscule it doesn't change anything. Its still a great item with really good buildup. One and a half extra creep isn't going to push the item into lategame.. I don't disagree with that. tauon seemed like he was saying it's a buff and I didn't think so. | ||
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-Celestial-
United Kingdom3867 Posts
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8916 Posts
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hacklebeast
United States5090 Posts
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
On February 07 2014 12:03 hacklebeast wrote: I logged into dota and I have that horse courier. Is it from the beast event? I only played one game and I was the only person in the game to spend gold. We used the visage exploit so we got a good score, but i didn't think that could be top 10 percent. Redhoof = 10% Jadehoof = 1% | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
On February 07 2014 00:32 -Celestial- wrote: I'd debate that to be honest. Its still got a nice buildup. Its1850 gold for +9 to all three stats. Plus the active. Plus a small damage boost. And it just got an extra charge last patch. I can't think of a situation where building it would be disadvantage. Its small item buildup gives you incremental stats as you build it that really helps and the item as a whole is still crazy cost efficient for what it does. The thing is, Sange and Yasha also has small item build up giving you more and more stats. All Items below 3k gold are crazy cost effective by design. Think of Shadow Blade, Blink, Armlet, Mekansm, all very good for the amount they cost. Drums are nice, but definitely something I would choose to skip whenever possible. Especially since the recipe cost is now getting closer and closer to 900, at which point Mekansm becomes a real alternative if you're team needs a burst of manfightpower(hp) rather than mobility. I like drums, but more for the passive effects than the charges. The charges alone are not powerful enough to enable your team to do something. At least I have never heard "Run, they just activated a drum charge" or something similar. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8277 Posts
On February 07 2014 13:05 Mataza wrote: The thing is, Sange and Yasha also has small item build up giving you more and more stats. All Items below 3k gold are crazy cost effective by design. Think of Shadow Blade, Blink, Armlet, Mekansm, all very good for the amount they cost. Drums are nice, but definitely something I would choose to skip whenever possible. Especially since the recipe cost is now getting closer and closer to 900, at which point Mekansm becomes a real alternative if you're team needs a burst of manfightpower(hp) rather than mobility. I like drums, but more for the passive effects than the charges. The charges alone are not powerful enough to enable your team to do something. At least I have never heard "Run, they just activated a drum charge" or something similar. Similarly have you ever heard anyone shout "Run, they just used a mech!"?. Drums as subtle, but they help win teamfights in a big way. But its not some all murdering god item. Its just really really useful. All the items you listed are, equally before the patch, valid items to go for on the right hero in the right scenario. Thats why this game is hard. You can't follow a list of items to build and expect to be good, you have to choose the right one at the right time. If are an agility hero and have some kind of aoe attack, yasha is really good for boosting your farm. If you're a strength hero who's already covered his mana issues, Armlet is amazing in the early and midgame stages. Mekans and Drums are both teamfight oriented items that cover two different uses. One makes you tanky while providing health regen and some decent stats, while the other gives you movement speed as well as better pure stats. If your name is Outworld Devourer, you'll do really good getting that mech. Similarly if you happen to be named Lifestealer, you'll want that drum to cover your mana issues. Blink is an initiation item with bad buildup(none) and gives you nothing else than the active skill. No idea what thats doing in the list. Its an item you sometimes need to go for, yes, but it doesn't compare. This was the truth before the patch btw, and nothing has changed after. Not a single thing. No one is going to stop going drums where they used to before just because of one and a half extra creep. | ||
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tauon
Australia1278 Posts
Also MS is one of the most valuable stats in dota 2. A drum charge corresponds to +10% move speed on all heroes (about 30-40ms on most heroes). < 2cs for this is an easy trade. Late game there were many situations where it was worthwhile rebuying the drum recipe just for the charges. | ||
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