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The land of freedom23126 Posts
Why do you need to separate "splitpushers" and "pushers", if they're doing same stuff in both categories?
Even Furion can push with team, which rarely happen but still.
And saying that TB is ranged Lycan is lol.
They have almost nothing common, except things that they're male, can transform sometimes and summon random stuff.
Also since when Naga Siren with best initiating ability in the game doesn't want to fight? You want to abuse her as much as possible because of this base armor after diffusal/manta. Same with PL basically, he's amazing in fights, people just need to figure out that he can't dive first without any luck with juxtapose.
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PL is actually quite bad in teamfights before he has a tanky illusion army to do everything for him.
Before that he can only contribute with Spirit Lance, because two of his skills are passive.
Naga can be very useful in teamfights, though. There's a reason she is considered viable as a support.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 31 2014 10:07 Darkren wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2014 10:03 hariooo wrote:On January 31 2014 09:17 TheYango wrote:On January 31 2014 09:00 hariooo wrote:
Unless you think the Lycan killing your tower in front of you and the Lycan killing your tower way over yonder are different. Well they are in that Lycan is a strong teamfighter with his first major item, so is not afraid to force a fight in the process of taking towers. Carry Naga and PL don't have this option. They split-push because they CAN'T fight, while Lycan WANTS to fight. TB is somewhat closer to Naga/PL in this regard. I don't see how that in any way argues the point. Pushing carries can be splitpushing carries but not necessarily the other way around. Why couldn't a splitpushing hero just join a push O and btw I think your metagaming yourself too much
Because in many cases a split-pushing hero does so because his team is not strong enough to 5-man yet and be able to come out ahead if the enemy comes to defend, in many cases because his particular hero is not strong 5-manning without items.
On January 31 2014 10:42 Mataza wrote:
Naga can be very useful in teamfights, though. There's a reason she is considered viable as a support.
Naga is strong without items, but as a carry has very awkward overall item development. That is, her skills are strong without farm, but if you give her farm, that farm doesn't turn into significant additional fighting effectiveness until 2nd major item. Particularly with common routes of item development on her like Radiance.
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Should lone druid's item progression be different after the entangle change?
Before it's almost always (optional)midas, radiance, phase, ac, basher
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Since the change only made it not an orb effect, not that much will change.
It is a slight buff to maelstrom, and at best this change makes lifesteal/Desolator a new option for LD.
Which is unlikely to change much as neither of those give the bear attackspeed or make him more durable.
I am actually not even sure that lifesteal and Desolator conflicted with entangle pre patch. They are just not that desirable on the spirit bear to begin with. Lifesteal is not worth it with the dps a spirit bear would usually deal. Desolator just doesn't even begin to compare to Assault Cuirass, even if Desolator is 1k gold cheaper.
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I was team matchmaking with my friends. The enemy team drafted: Death Prophet, Venomancer, Lone Druid, Enchantress, and Puck. http://dotabuff.com/matches/488207665
Really think we're outpicked because they had 2 set of our raxes by the 20-minute mark. How do I have to deal with this mass-push setup? What should my team pick to counter-pick them?
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well we could just list heroes and what you could have done, but how the drafting process actually went makes a significant difference.
but from first glance, you lack a lot of anti push. alchemist is fine for drawing creep aggro from towers but dp and lone druid dont need creeps to hit the tower with them anyway. cm's nuke is not enough to kill creeps, especially since you want to be destroying the wave before it reaches your tower.
secondly, dp and lone druid arent heroes you want to have drawn out battles with. lone druid with radiance does considerable damage over time and dp obviously does more damage the longer you fight her. you should have looked for heroes who can isolate them or drop them very quickly with a wombo combo style line up. batrider, magnus, clock etc. also note that none of them are bkb carriers (dp can get one but it is highly unlikely shell get it early).
they have no stuns. normally night stalker is a good pick against lineups with no stuns but given that he doesnt really burst people down and dp/lone druid can fight him quite well, he was a bad pick. bat/mag/clock would all have been better mids, or you could put a hero like qop/dk mid as well, someone who can teamfight better than ns. dk also has the threat of push allowing you to trade towers if possible, rather than watch your tower die as you attempt to defend.
also, their early game is actually quite weak. ld needs time to get his radiance, veno needs levels, and dp/enchant/puck are incredibly fragile. you should have abused this by ganking very actively. if you can get the better of multiple smaller engagements early, push lineups lose a lot of their effectiveness as they will have to resort to tower trades or risk losing straight up 5v5 fights.
but again, i havent watched the replay so i have no idea how the draft actually went down. the order of picks as well as what the bans were are pretty important when trying to tell you how your draft went wrong.
and your draft wasnt so bad that it was unwinnable, ns along with cm/alche is easily able to take control of the early game despite their push threats. i think you just didnt know how to play against the lineup rather than simply not knowing what to pick
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United States47024 Posts
On January 31 2014 12:17 Mataza wrote:
Since the change only made it not an orb effect, not that much will change.
It is a slight buff to maelstrom, and at best this change makes lifesteal/Desolator a new option for LD.
Which is unlikely to change much as neither of those give the bear attackspeed or make him more durable.
I am actually not even sure that lifesteal and Desolator conflicted with entangle pre patch. They are just not that desirable on the spirit bear to begin with. Lifesteal is not worth it with the dps a spirit bear would usually deal. Desolator just doesn't even begin to compare to Assault Cuirass, even if Desolator is 1k gold cheaper.
Lifesteal is good on the Bear, it's just that you can't use MoM without mana, Satanic wastes all the strength, and without Satanic upgrade as a legitimate option, casual HoD is just worse than Vlad's (which is already situationally bought when the team can't buy one for you).
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hotd gives u an extra creep yo
also it stacks with vlads for maximum lifesteal
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does lycan's howl help shadow shaman's serpent wards? I would assume it does, but I just played a game where that came up and it didn't seem to do a whole lot of difference...
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On January 31 2014 17:12 LeeDawg wrote:
does lycan's howl help shadow shaman's serpent wards? I would assume it does, but I just played a game where that came up and it didn't seem to do a whole lot of difference...
Nope. Same with Venomancer's Plague Wards.
It gives dps for Visage's familiars or Treants, though.
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Since the last time I played, it seems like I'm now limited to All Pick or Limited Heroes. Did they put a new restriction in? I liked Random Draft and Single Draft as far as playing new heroes while sticking to the kind I liked (I suck at carries) went, do I need to level up to unlock them again?
It kinda sucks if so...
Also, how does said level up occur? My profile says I've got 536/120 battle points, but I'm somehow still level 1. Don't they work as experience? Do I have to play another game for it to trigger?
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On February 01 2014 09:57 Alaric wrote:
Since the last time I played, it seems like I'm now limited to All Pick or Limited Heroes. Did they put a new restriction in? I liked Random Draft and Single Draft as far as playing new heroes while sticking to the kind I liked (I suck at carries) went, do I need to level up to unlock them again?
It kinda sucks if so...
Also, how does said level up occur? My profile says I've got 536/120 battle points, but I'm somehow still level 1. Don't they work as experience? Do I have to play another game for it to trigger?
Yes, some game modes are only avaible at a certain level. I'm not sure what up with your level, but you may as well play a game and find out.
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On January 31 2014 15:32 evilfatsh1t wrote:
well we could just list heroes and what you could have done, but how ... didnt know how to play against the lineup rather than simply not knowing what to pick
Thanks man, much in-depth sight you gave to me  I will try to practice them later.
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This is a rather specific question but I was just playing Silencer vs TA mid and on paper I felt I should have an advantage, but the TA was able to counter my spell usage pretty well. Any tips for handling this match up? The TA wasn't simply spamming refraction and I quickly realized I couldn't let myself get baited into casting CotS+Last Word as simply casting refraction laughs that off.
I guess just right click harass and bide your time until she casts refraction? Then go for CotS+Last Word combo (though if she melds immediately she may still be able to have refraction stop last word damage I suppose.)
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i wouldnt say silencer has the advantage over ta. silencer can definitely win, but the build you have to opt for winning mid lane isnt what you want to have midgame.
if you get a point in glaives and opt for curse over last word, you can force him to spend all his mana and then out last hit him with glaives. the main thing here is getting more point in curse over last word, since you wont be getting any damage out of last word as long as he has refraction up. wait till he uses refraction then curse him, and if he isnt lvl 4 he will lose all his refraction charges + mana.
you can still beat him by prioritising last word but if ta gets all the runes/bottle crows the chances are he will stalemate until lvl 6 where he can just kill you, maybe even earlier depending on what rune he gets
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On January 31 2014 11:42 Jaeger wrote:
Should lone druid's item progression be different after the entangle change?
Before it's almost always (optional)midas, radiance, phase, ac, basher
Absolutely no reason to.
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theres a stronger case for getting maelstrom now when you cant get radiance though.
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I think in pub games, it may be better to get phase+maelstrom (aui2000 style). I always found the large gap between midas and radiance to be too large. Going radiance makes you vulnerable for too long imo.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On February 01 2014 15:52 evilfatsh1t wrote:
theres a stronger case for getting maelstrom now when you cant get radiance though.
Maelstrom is not changed, granted mjollnir is kind of better now, considering that bear gets targetted pretty darn often and static charge effing hurts.
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EPT
