EPTSimple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 758
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chocorush
696 Posts
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Excludos
Norway8277 Posts
On January 25 2014 04:34 chocorush wrote: Are boots really worth upgrading for most heroes now that the movement speed on the upgrades is nerfed? Is the money in general better spent on your next big items unless you're 6 slotted? Yes, the other bonuses upgraded boots give is still pretty major. But there is room to not upgrade on certain heroes sometimes. I usually end up staying on normal boots for a long time on invoker and go directly for travels after a few major items | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On January 25 2014 01:43 TheYango wrote: Earth Spirit can max Smash or Roll first depending on the game (and max the other one second). Maxing Smash gives you more damage and farming power while maxing Roll gives you high mobility and a strong repeated slow. It depends on your team and what they need more in order to get kills with your ganks. 2 Points in stun is also fairly common as at max range level 1 stun doesn't ensure you land the roll on them from max range. When you want that 2nd point, depends a lot on game situation, but if you're coming in as a newbie ES I'd get it sooner rather than later (level 7 or 8). Though if you max smash first you can also just max pull next and leave 1 level in roll; I like this option if the enemy team is trying to 5-man early. You can also just go by this (from dotametrics): ![[image loading]](http://dotametrics.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/earthspiritwinratesbyskill2.png?w=290&h=261) (Appearently maxing stun first is a good training wheels build until you know what you're doing, but maybe ES's in normal/high bracket get stuck in side lanes more often where the build would make a little more sense than as a mid ES). | ||
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Andre
Slovenia3523 Posts
You're in the range of the enemy tower's attack, you have allied creeps in its range as well - they're fighting the enemy creeps. You never attack the enemy hero that's near the tower. If you just run around the tower, the tower will never attack you, it will prioritize your creeps first as they're attacking the enemy creeps/tower/hero. Or can the tower just randomly start shooting at you? | ||
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Qbek
Poland12923 Posts
On January 25 2014 04:52 Andre wrote: Ok look at this scenario. You're in the range of the enemy tower's attack, you have allied creeps in its range as well - they're fighting the enemy creeps. You never attack the enemy hero that's near the tower. If you just run around the tower, the tower will never attack you, it will prioritize your creeps first as they're attacking the enemy creeps/tower/hero. Or can the tower just randomly start shooting at you? I not creeps are attacking the tower or the enemy hero the tower will pick the target closest to it | ||
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ziggurat
Canada847 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On January 25 2014 04:34 chocorush wrote: Are boots really worth upgrading for most heroes now that the movement speed on the upgrades is nerfed? Is the money in general better spent on your next big items unless you're 6 slotted? Yes they are still worth it. Remember the general rule that smaller items are more cost-efficient and less slot-efficient, while the reverse is true for large items. Generally if you have small items like Aquila/Wand/Drums/etc. you will have more total stats/effects than you would for getting a large item of same combined cost. The tradeoff is that the combined item does not have to be sold off when you max out on items while smaller items have to be sold for bigger ones--but with Boots this isn't even a drawback because you won't sell off Boots anyway. Upgrading Boots lets you benefit from the cost-effectiveness of the upgrade without worrying about the drawback of taking up a slot because you'd save a slot for Boots regardless. On January 25 2014 04:39 Logo wrote: 2 Points in stun is also fairly common as at max range level 1 stun doesn't ensure you land the roll on them from max range. When you want that 2nd point, depends a lot on game situation, but if you're coming in as a newbie ES I'd get it sooner rather than later (level 7 or 8). Though if you max smash first you can also just max pull next and leave 1 level in roll; I like this option if the enemy team is trying to 5-man early. You can also just go by this (from dotametrics): (Appearently maxing stun first is a good training wheels build until you know what you're doing, but maybe ES's in normal/high bracket get stuck in side lanes more often where the build would make a little more sense than as a mid ES). Leaving 1-point Roll denies yourself so much mobility due to the drastic CD reduction at higher ranks. It's really not worth it to leave it till last. Also, a table like that is fucking useless because skilling is so situational. That maxing one skill over another wins a few percentage points more often is meaningless because in the context of a particular game, it doesn't tell you which one is more useful for the particular game state you're in. I honestly think it's retarded that people put any stock in statistics like that. It was the same shit when people argued about Pact-max vs. Pounce-max on Slark which is similarly a pointless argument because Pounce-max winning a lot of the time doesn't mean it will do you good in a game where you should go Pact-max. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On January 25 2014 05:03 TheYango wrote: Leaving 1-point Roll denies yourself so much mobility due to the drastic CD reduction at higher ranks. It's really not worth it to leave it till last. Also, a table like that is fucking useless because skilling is so situational. That maxing one skill over another wins a few percentage points more often is meaningless because in the context of a particular game, it doesn't tell you which one is more useful for the particular game state you're in. I honestly think it's retarded that people put any stock in statistics like that. It was the same shit when people argued about Pact-max vs. Pounce-max on Slark which is similarly a pointless argument because Pounce-max winning a lot of the time doesn't mean it will do you good in a game where you should go Pact-max. Like I said I like 1 point roll if the enemy team is 5 manning and I think my team needs extra stun time more than my mobility. The mobility helps me survive and chase, but it does little for my team if they're melting under the enemy team. Ideally you'd go with other other options to deal with 5-manning and maybe still max roll first, but when you're talking about pubs we know that's not always on the table. I feel much more confident leading a bunch of pubs into a fight starting off with a 2.5s stun than one where the enemy team is unstunned before anyone else can even follow me in. It shows evidence in things we already hold true or have a strong reason to suspect: Having a grip that holds for the time it takes you roll to your combo is really useful and practical and both smash first and roll first work in the right situations. The danger isn't in the data, the danger is in overfitting or overusing it. In this case we're doing neither. If you look at the combinations that seem the most reasonable (4-2-1-1, 4-1-2-1, 2-4-1-1, 1-4-2-1) all of them are perfectly reasonable builds for certain situations, the only thing the win % suggests is what people already suggested before any data came into the picture: a 2nd point in grip is useful, specifically if you max smash first (4-1-2-1). We think about it and it makes complete sense, there's far less need for a 2nd point in grip if you have a 4s cd boulder. If I'm relying on a 12s boulder I need to make sure that my smash gets off or I have no ganking power. Then whether or not you need that point in grip depends on if you think you'll be initiating from max range or if your ganks are likely to start from closer distances. | ||
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meldo
United States15 Posts
On January 25 2014 04:59 ziggurat wrote: If I used dust of appearance in an area before the enemy hero goes invisible, and then he goes invisible immediately after, will the dust still make him visible and slow him? Or does it only affect heroes that are invisible when it's used? Dust will make him visible and slow him. The dust debuff will last for the whole duration, or until it is removed by a purge, magic immunity, manta, etc. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
How is he still under 50% in the top bracket? | ||
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zezamer
Finland5701 Posts
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
Though I think in general ES falls into that same pub bucket as QoP, SS, Clinkz, and Puck who also have terrible pub win %s. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
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oo_Wonderful_oo
The land of freedom23126 Posts
And they're right though. On January 25 2014 07:46 Erasme wrote: i would max stun first and roll last. You don't want to be in the melee unless you can ult safely. Stun has same cooldown and it's 1,5 seconds already if you get one point. That's nuff. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On January 25 2014 07:50 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote: There are a lot of really cute bugs like Slark's Pounce interaction with Disruptor's Kinetic Field but Valve thinks that hats have more profit :D And they're right though. Stun has same cooldown and it's 1,5 seconds already if you get one point. That's nuff. It's 1s at one point and .5s per point up to 2.5s. The point of skilling roll early is that when it's at 4 points you can keep up with your gank targets, move around the map better, do things like roll into range to save an ally then roll away, or move around a fight more to stay out of trouble after ulting. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
If you are comboing Rock->Pull->Roll->Smash, then 1 rank stun still guarantees that Roll connects except against heroes with 450-500 MS (depending on how smoothly you combo everything) or blinks coupled with very short cast animations (but most of those require you to silence first anyway). It takes ~1.3s for Roll to reach its target, and it has a radius of 150, so most targets don't have the movespeed to escape getting Rolled into even with only the 1s stun. The use of having the 2nd rank comes into play specifically with heroes with escapes that you HAVE to use the Boulder Smash silence against in order to kill. Because in that case, the overall time in your combo is longer. On January 25 2014 07:50 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote: There are a lot of really cute bugs like Slark's Pounce interaction with Disruptor's Kinetic Field but Valve thinks that hats have more profit :D And they're right though. Very little developer work is needed for art assets at this point, especially with a lot of it being Steam Workshop stuff. Honestly adding new cosmetics to the game probably takes as little effort as typing in the price and clicking a button. It's much more troublesome to fix long-standing bugs that may not have a known root cause. On January 25 2014 07:46 Erasme wrote: i would max stun first and roll last. You don't want to be in the melee unless you can ult safely. The thing is, Grip is ES' weakest ganking skill beyond what's necessary to lead-off because it has no damage or cooldown scaling. Boulder Smash gives you burst damage, while Roll gives you sustained damage and chasing power. You don't want to have to ult on every gank, and maxing the other skills improves your ganking power without the need for Magnetize. Even if teamfighting is your immediate concern, the superior scaling on Boulder Smash is still preferable (since it scales both CD and damage). | ||
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oo_Wonderful_oo
The land of freedom23126 Posts
On January 25 2014 08:32 TheYango wrote: Very little developer work is needed for art assets at this point, especially with a lot of it being Steam Workshop stuff. Honestly adding new cosmetics to the game probably takes as little effort as typing in the price and clicking a button. It's much more troublesome to fix long-standing bugs that may not have a known root cause. I'm not bashing Valve about it. You can't have game without bugs or glitches imo, especially that big. It's just fun sometimes to find bug or glitch, laughing with friends and then suddenly you find out that this bug is known. But having ~1,5k different bugs/glitches is kinda too much imo. Even if they're not complete gamechangers. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On January 25 2014 08:32 TheYango wrote: Whether you need the 2nd point of grip depends on the heroes you're against and whether you need to silence as part of your combo or kick the hero into your team. If you are comboing Rock->Pull->Roll->Smash, then 1 rank stun still guarantees that Roll connects except against heroes with 450-500 MS (depending on how smoothly you combo everything) or blinks coupled with very short cast animations (but most of those require you to silence first anyway). It takes ~1.3s for Roll to reach its target, and it has a radius of 150, so most targets don't have the movespeed to escape getting Rolled into even with only the 1s stun. The use of having the 2nd rank comes into play specifically with heroes with escapes that you HAVE to use the Boulder Smash silence against in order to kill. Because in that case, the overall time in your combo is longer. If you're going to silence with smash why would that make you more needy of stun level 2? You can smash a stone while you roll to stun. Also if you're using a single stone it takes about 1.79s to reach your target and that's under ideal conditions, which is fine if it matters you go with the 1.3s combo, but that still assumes instant clicking speed and what not. There's a stone conservation trade-off there too (level 2 stun makes the 1 stone combo have the same gap as using 2 stones on a level 1 stun). It's nice when you're planning on ulting anyways to have that extra stone, but that's a tough trade-off to evaluate. Either way what's important is more of how you play. If you are dropping combos with level 1 stun you should be getting level 2; it barely sets back your roll and makes the combo pretty much fool proof. Uh which is why I'd generally recommend it as a safer build if you don't know what you're doing. | ||
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idonthinksobro
3138 Posts
casual voidstone? bottle? | ||
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selfoe
2 Posts
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