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Kazzoo
France368 Posts
The stun is bad. The aura would be good if the swap didn't mean she dies first in every teamfight. And the swap is useless before level 11. If your team is winning she's decent. If your team is losing then prepare to cry, she will be useless. Add to that shit range and shit stats... There are tons of better heroes to pick in almost any situation. Unless you are going for an extremely specific cheesy strat. | ||
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nojok
France15846 Posts
On January 21 2014 20:03 govie wrote: And the stun is instant, so not or not easily dodgeable like alch stun. Alche stun can't be disjointed, has insane range, damage, small AoE, cost less mana, longer stun duration and alche has a better mana pool. You're comparing venge stun to what is arguably the best non ulti stun. | ||
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
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oo_Wonderful_oo
The land of freedom23126 Posts
On January 21 2014 12:50 Scrandom wrote: What is the best way to deal with a start where you know an enemy will be jungling? I always play with 2 friends so I can rely on somewhat teamwork. Should I just go to his jungle and plant sentries? Should I try to kill him assuming I can? Often times at my level (not trench but not pro) someone who straight jungle gets away with being unchecked. go 2x2 offlane, rape laners, rape jungler. But it's rare stuff :D You can ward his jungle and force him to come to yours. Or you can just gank him there but from my experience, it's not working with Furion because they can be fucked 3-4 times before 10 minute and still have midas-lothar at 15. Or midas-dagon lmao. On January 21 2014 19:45 idonthinksobro wrote: why is venge getting so little attention in pro dota? venge seems like a decent support, reliable stun, minus armor, buffs the carrys dmg, can safe people and initiate seems like a good support no? She's more about roaming support, very weak in lane. Her stun has ridiculously long animation nowdays, wave is complete useless if you're not pushing, same with aura, especially, if you want to play VS as support with carry, not roaming. Her peak is on 7-8th lvl basically, if you have one point in stun and 4 points in aura, then she has huge pit and then 16 with scepter, where you can win games alone basically. But if you pick her as roaming support with some kind of Venomancer/Gyrocopter, i promise, it works. | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8916 Posts
On January 21 2014 20:03 govie wrote: And the stun is instant, so not or not easily dodgeable like alch stun. her stun isnt instant. in fact its quite easy to dodge venge has terrible range for both her stun and her attack, but she also doesnt have a high movespeed like bane to make up for her short range. also, shes very level dependent as a support. shes great in roaming support lineups, but she usually needs someone to set her stun up and roaming support duo lineups arent very popular nowadays due to the slow exp gain when kills are split 3-way. she still has her uses though, if you can find her levels by pairing her with someone like naix or gyro (a hero with strong kill potential) against a weak offlane, its ok. also her ulti is really good vs heroes like enig, bat due to the defensive nature of her ulti | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On January 21 2014 21:24 nojok wrote: Alche stun can't be disjointed, has insane range, damage, small AoE, cost less mana, longer stun duration and alche has a better mana pool. You're comparing venge stun to what is arguably the best non ulti stun. Ive seen singsing zap to alch with stormspirit and the stun seemed to disappear, apparantly not then? Edit : And u can move away to safer spots near towers in the early game because of the timer and the travelspeed of the concoction. But whatever. Point is, venge has a very speedy stun which can be usefull in alot of situations. | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8916 Posts
On January 21 2014 21:59 govie wrote: Ive seen singsing zap to alch with stormspirit and the stun seemed to disappear, apparantly not then? storm is invulnerable during his ball lightning. it will dodge everything, much like pucks phase shift, morph waveform, astral etc | ||
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nojok
France15846 Posts
On January 21 2014 22:01 evilfatsh1t wrote: storm is invulnerable during his ball lightning. it will dodge everything, much like pucks phase shift, morph waveform, astral etc That's why it's often easier to dodge projectiles while zipping towards it instead of away from it as it connects when you're in invulnerable form. | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
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BoZiffer
United States1841 Posts
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8916 Posts
you would need to skill return, which isnt a bad spell if you can get huge fast, but the rate youll be developing at in the jungles doesnt make return a good investment for levels. items youll probably get the same things as axe. stout, tango/salve or 2 salves, go for vanguard and blink | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
On January 22 2014 08:10 evilfatsh1t wrote: its doable but not a "thing" you would need to skill return, which isnt a bad spell if you can get huge fast, but the rate youll be developing at in the jungles doesnt make return a good investment for levels. items youll probably get the same things as axe. stout, tango/salve or 2 salves, go for vanguard and blink You don't actually need it past lvl 1. First level in return, second in stomp then max dedge and stomp. Instead of rushing tranq boots as before, you rush bottle or RoH. Then you get blink armlet heart heart heart | ||
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
when singsing streams he has some sort of extra item above his normal six slot inventory what is it? is it an ingame thing? or just some overlay | ||
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RoyGBiv_13
United States1275 Posts
On January 22 2014 08:16 Erasme wrote: You don't actually need it past lvl 1. First level in return, second in stomp then max dedge and stomp. Instead of rushing tranq boots as before, you rush bottle or RoH. Then you get blink armlet heart heart heart That works, or you can skill return and start out with 3-4 gauntlets and salves for the rest. | ||
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icystorage
Jollibee19350 Posts
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Rodberd
Germany531 Posts
On January 22 2014 08:53 mizU wrote: not sure where to ask this but: when singsing streams he has some sort of extra item above his normal six slot inventory what is it? is it an ingame thing? or just some overlay could be 2 things: 1) his item-stash in base. when you buy stuff and arent in base/at shops, items will be placed there. these items can be delivered by courier or you walk back to base and take them by yourself. 2) could be quickbuy-icon, when you shift-click items in the shop it will place this item in the quickbuy-slot. whenever you have enough money for one of the pieces you will her a coin-noise and the items are framed golden, so you can purchase them via quick-buy hotkey. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8277 Posts
On January 22 2014 20:55 Rodberd wrote: could be 2 things: 1) his item-stash in base. when you buy stuff and arent in base/at shops, items will be placed there. these items can be delivered by courier or you walk back to base and take them by yourself. 2) could be quickbuy-icon, when you shift-click items in the shop it will place this item in the quickbuy-slot. whenever you have enough money for one of the pieces you will her a coin-noise and the items are framed golden, so you can purchase them via quick-buy hotkey. Its the third. His snowballs from that winter game 2 years ago. | ||
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-Celestial-
United Kingdom3867 Posts
On January 22 2014 01:14 Kipsate wrote: Vengefull also does not flashfarm or has farming capabilities, qualities that are actually quite helpful as a support. Popular supports have those right now, think of Veno Wards, Crystal maiden frostbite etc, hell even Visage Familiars on top of Visage his normal skill set. I actually really like Venge but I have to agree this is one of her biggest problems. There's just no way to grab items quickly when you need them You essentially need to farm heroes rather than creeps as Venge and if your team is very far behind then you're not going to be able to help pull off the ganks needed. Plus one point in swap is very weak so you need to be extremely smart how you play it until level 11; its not useless, but you have to abuse treelines and cliffs to pull enemies in rather than just straight up swapping them as they're running away or hiding in the middle of their team. And forcestaff is basically mandatory if you intend to try and survive any kind of aggressive swap unless the enemy you're swapping is overextending. | ||
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SheaR619
United States2399 Posts
On January 21 2014 20:41 Divine-Sneaker wrote: Her stun is surprisingly short range, she's not that fast which means she kinda needs someone else to set up her own stun as a followup for ganks. She also adds little as a traditional babysitter and doesn't jungle well compared to some other supports. She also really needs level 11 at least, for the level 2 swap range during midgame, something that can be hard to come by. Her stun is a bit short range with a 500 from the standard 600 but the projectile speed is very good. Why does she need someone to set up her stun for her? She one of the faster support with a speed of 295 (considering that most support are slow as shit with visage at 290, CM at 280, venom at 285). She generally considered more of a roaming support rather then a lane baby sitter. Good vengeful spirit will roam around, particularly mid, for ganks and I thought this was the reason why most team pick her up. | ||
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