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govie
9334 Posts
On January 06 2014 22:02 Just_a_Moth wrote: No, but you can do it on Earthshaker and have a ton of fun. Nothing like playing speedshaker. force+blink. The range is amazing  | ||
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-Celestial-
United Kingdom3867 Posts
On January 06 2014 21:47 r.Evo wrote: Not exactly. Drums are basically the same as an Ultimate Orb in terms of cost effective stats. The main reasons to buy it are: -Easier buildup (aka great for supports, games where you need small shit RIGHT NOW, games where you are behind) -The MS aura (no reason not to have a 5% MS aura around) -Being a character who wants a bit of extra mana but doesn't have a good Ultimate Orb item he can build into. Most str carries who like Drums fall into this category (e.g. Naix/Doom) -The active. That's the biggest selling point to get it on heroes not covered above. Having that for early fights can make or break them if they're close. Drums are more cost effective than an orb and do more with a nice build up. Which is literally what I just said; not sure where you're disagreeing here. Only disadvantage is they don't build into anything. And that the charges run out On January 06 2014 22:02 Just_a_Moth wrote: No, but you can do it on Earthshaker and have a ton of fun. Nothing like playing speedshaker. Some people used to like racecar Bloodseeker too. Although his passive outclasses it now I believe. On January 06 2014 22:20 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote: Dudes, vanguard is good i heard. No need in building drums. And it costs ~400 gold more, no big deal. Get it for Spectre and enjoy, even if you're going for Radiance and not diffusals/manta/heart which's usually more profitable. Vanguard is better than it used to be but honestly I'd take drums over it on Spectre unless I was getting totally wrecked by in-lane harrassment and needed the health that badly. And even then a casual vit booster does most of the job and you can keep it for your heart later. Drums just offer way more. | ||
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Laserist
Turkey4269 Posts
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xAdra
Singapore1858 Posts
(on the topic of Necrolyte's 6.79 1 armor buff) "Meh, he'll still be bottom-of-the-ocean tier" Why exactly is necrolyte so bad now? I always liked the concept of the hero, and getting Sadist hero kills is so satisfying. I want to train him since I just got a full set of cosmetic equipments (hats) for him. Why do people say he's more item dependent than the likes of Juggernaut and Templar Assassin? To mek or not to mek? Because he seems like a perfect mek carrier, yet if he's really that item dependent, maybe I should leave it to others? What kind of damage output should I go for? His rightclicks seem pretty weaksauce to me because of that sluggish projectile speed. | ||
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Pjorren
Sweden777 Posts
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Laserist
Turkey4269 Posts
On January 07 2014 00:02 xAdra wrote: Synderen mentioned before on stream: (on the topic of Necrolyte's 6.79 1 armor buff) "Meh, he'll still be bottom-of-the-ocean tier" Why exactly is necrolyte so bad now? I always liked the concept of the hero, and getting Sadist hero kills is so satisfying. I want to train him since I just got a full set of cosmetic equipments (hats) for him. Why do people say he's more item dependent than the likes of Juggernaut and Templar Assassin? To mek or not to mek? Because he seems like a perfect mek carrier, yet if he's really that item dependent, maybe I should leave it to others? What kind of damage output should I go for? His rightclicks seem pretty weaksauce to me because of that sluggish projectile speed. Dunno synd, but he is a niche pick for 1v1 safe lane. Often go tank items and force fights. With mek, it is very hard to take him down. You need to stay at the heart of the battle, spam heal/nuke, ulti to take a kill and survive. Also his passive is annoying to deal with. Damage output not comes from right clicks, rather nuke/item spam. | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8915 Posts
On January 07 2014 00:02 Pjorren wrote: Is support Drow ranger legit? no. never in a million years On January 07 2014 00:02 xAdra wrote: Synderen mentioned before on stream: (on the topic of Necrolyte's 6.79 1 armor buff) "Meh, he'll still be bottom-of-the-ocean tier" Why exactly is necrolyte so bad now? I always liked the concept of the hero, and getting Sadist hero kills is so satisfying. I want to train him since I just got a full set of cosmetic equipments (hats) for him. Why do people say he's more item dependent than the likes of Juggernaut and Templar Assassin? To mek or not to mek? Because he seems like a perfect mek carrier, yet if he's really that item dependent, maybe I should leave it to others? What kind of damage output should I go for? His rightclicks seem pretty weaksauce to me because of that sluggish projectile speed. his laning phase is weak due to average damage and slow projectile, combined with weak skills until lvl 5/6. hes highly lvl dependent and item dependent, which is problematic because you cant expect to have a really good start with him unless youre lucky. for him to be effective he needs LOTS of items so that he can stand his ground in the middle and provide constant damage, but nowadays with most fights being over fairly quickly, its hard for him to stay alive. i say this all the time, but my favourite build in pubs is to go radiance on him. the reasoning is the same for a hero like spectre, he deals huge aoe damage the longer he survives but he needs a lot of items for him to get to the stage where he can outlast the enemy. radiance will help you get there, as your farm rate gets boosted hugely. also makes your right click do something when you have treads | ||
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xAdra
Singapore1858 Posts
On January 07 2014 00:16 Laserist wrote: (snip) On January 07 2014 00:28 evilfatsh1t wrote: (snip) Good answers, thanks a lot guys! Seems like this hero is far too niche for me to enjoy him in pubs. I'll give him a couple of tries and see how it goes | ||
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Baggage
Hong Kong593 Posts
On January 07 2014 00:28 evilfatsh1t wrote: his laning phase is weak due to average damage and slow projectile, combined with weak skills until lvl 5/6. hes highly lvl dependent and item dependent, which is problematic because you cant expect to have a really good start with him unless youre lucky. for him to be effective he needs LOTS of items so that he can stand his ground in the middle and provide constant damage, but nowadays with most fights being over fairly quickly, its hard for him to stay alive. i say this all the time, but my favourite build in pubs is to go radiance on him. the reasoning is the same for a hero like spectre, he deals huge aoe damage the longer he survives but he needs a lot of items for him to get to the stage where he can outlast the enemy. radiance will help you get there, as your farm rate gets boosted hugely. also makes your right click do something when you have treads Necrolyte is a very strong 1v1 laner. His skill set is solid in a 1v1 lane, especially against popular melee offlaners like clock/bristle-god etc. His damage and projectile may be somewhat mediocre but as long as you spend some quality time getting used to the animation (or in competitive play getting a little pooled), he's incredibly oppressive especially with 1 point heart stopper. Death pulse makes it very difficult to jump on him, and with 1 point in heart stopper, staying within exp range against him is still oppressive. Radiance is awful on him as the damage component is largely wasted, and his greatest strength is in pushing lineups/5 man death balls. You're better off going items that boost survivability such as mek/shivas/hex/ghost. Alternatively, you can go down the dagon/e-blade route and rely on getting hero sadist procs to keep you going in fights. Although dagon e-blade does seem somewhat clowny, the threat of instantly turning fights into a 5v4 is no joke. Radiance is also low tier item because you just use death pulse to farm and get the mana back through the sadist proc. Necrolyte is not a right-click carry and should not be treated as such. He just wants to be in the middle of a fight for as long as possible whilst your level 4 heart stopper aura and death pulses wear the enemy team down. Game 1 of DK vs iG from WPC is a classic example of Necrolyte death balls being frustratingly difficult to engage. Do note that iG had a 5 man teamwipe in the beginning, and Hao still won against icex3's clock handily due to his matchup advantage. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
 on the real, radiance is bad because what the hell does it actually do for you? nothing... the dead last thing necro needs is more aoe dot considering how busted his aura is. | ||
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oo_Wonderful_oo
The land of freedom23126 Posts
Necro has amazing animations i feel. Way better than it was in dota1 with dat pink Slimer. Good old Necrolyte with VG/Pipe/Aghanim still feels great, even can go bkb ahead of Aghanims and be ok. Or meka if there is no other carriers in team. On January 07 2014 00:02 Pjorren wrote: Is support Drow ranger legit? My friend with who we're playing in party rankeds is playing support Void. It works nice but need some patience. So, basically everything works if you know what to do with it. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On January 07 2014 02:47 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote: Necro has amazing animations i feel. Way better than it was in dota1 with dat pink Slimer. Good old Necrolyte with VG/Pipe/Aghanim still feels great, even can go bkb ahead of Aghanims and be ok. Or meka if there is no other carriers in team. There's not really a reason to buy VG anymore. HP regen was nice on the hero when Sadist didn't give HP restore as well, meaning your HP/mana balance could get a little wonky in lane, but that's simply not the case anymore, which makes HP regen a redundant stat. The upgrade from Vit Booster to Vanguard is basically paying 1k+ gold to just get the damage block, which is really weak on ranged. It's better to just sit on Vit Booster until lategame than to build Vanguard. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
The awful rank of Dagger is actually the 1st rank, because the majority of nukes have a much stronger 1st rank than subsequent ranks while Dagger is pretty much the same (only 1% more speed/slow, same damage). Ranks 2-4 have really good incremental benefit. | ||
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lzma
United Kingdom44 Posts
On January 07 2014 00:43 xAdra wrote: Good answers, thanks a lot guys! Seems like this hero is far too niche for me to enjoy him in pubs. I'll give him a couple of tries and see how it goes In pubs is another matter, Necro is a pretty good option there. Can 1v1 side lane, does well in mid in most matchups, and can even support if you're going to get catchup time from taking a mid from a clock or someone who leaves at lvl 6 to gank. What I'm never sure on is the skill build. I tend to go sadist, max death pulse in side lane, but if I'm mid and going bottle instead do one level of heartstopper first and get confused about if I want to then delay the initial death pulse levels or skip sadist till 4. | ||
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oo_Wonderful_oo
The land of freedom23126 Posts
On January 07 2014 03:16 lzma wrote: In pubs is another matter, Necro is a pretty good option there. Can 1v1 side lane, does well in mid in most matchups, and can even support if you're going to get catchup time from taking a mid from a clock or someone who leaves at lvl 6 to gank. What I'm never sure on is the skill build. I tend to go sadist, max death pulse in side lane, but if I'm mid and going bottle instead do one level of heartstopper first and get confused about if I want to then delay the initial death pulse levels or skip sadist till 4. Just skip it, i'm doing same. You don't really need sadist before 4, if you're playing safe. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
2 Sadist at 4 actually lets you trade way more aggressively with the extra regen. Against most ranged heroes this is more significant than the Heartstopper HP drain. | ||
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2847 Posts
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oo_Wonderful_oo
The land of freedom23126 Posts
On January 07 2014 04:08 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: Perhaps a stupid thought about necrophos but if you had another player (mid) build the mek and you built a pipe instead wouldn't that be even better? I guess you miss the +5 armor and some stat but 30 % damage reduction from nukes are pretty good and you still get the heal from the mek. It's not about better or not, your team just need it sometimes. If there are no pipe/mekansm carriers, you can get them asap with Necro, if there are any other frontliners in your team like Dark Seer or ET, leave this destiny to them and focus on something like hex/aghanims/shivas to improve teamfights for your squad. | ||
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