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On January 04 2014 04:15 lolfail9001 wrote:
Simple question from someone who watches more than actually plays (aka noob): Why is mjollnir never built on whoever and i have only seen 2 heroes ever get maelstrom. Isn't it one of the best AoE effects on an item (yes, i dare to say superior to radiance)?
item is bugged compared to dota 1. Right now you can not proc until the other proc is finished. Which means its worse than it should be, doesn't scale into the lategame, and hits hardest on the heroes that wants it the most. As it stands, its pretty much only good for pushing and farming.
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Radiance is superior since you have to hit so it deals permanent damage and prevent blinks
I don't know on who i would build mjollnir, i always have better items to build
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the only heroes that would consider building it are 1st or 2nd position heroes. these heroes have so many other items to build that mjolnir is just pushed away. in the damage department items like deso, mkb, daedalus, bfly etc outclass it because of the bonus effects they provide. if youre looking at strictly attack speed, orchid, bfly, assault cuirass etc give good attack speed too but provide more utility for your team. as for aoe damage, it does more than radiance once you get mjolnir, but its also more expensive. people who get radiance and maelstrom for farming purposes want to get it asap. radiance is a much better farming item than maelstrom, especially for lone druid and spectre. basically its too much of an all rounder item which leads it to become a good option for alternatives rather than a first choice
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maelstrom is descent on supports when rax is down and u need to clear big creep now and then.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 04 2014 04:25 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2014 04:15 lolfail9001 wrote:
Simple question from someone who watches more than actually plays (aka noob): Why is mjollnir never built on whoever and i have only seen 2 heroes ever get maelstrom. Isn't it one of the best AoE effects on an item (yes, i dare to say superior to radiance)? item is bugged compared to dota 1. Right now you can not proc until the other proc is finished. Which means its worse than it should be, doesn't scale into the lategame, and hits hardest on the heroes that wants it the most. As it stands, its pretty much only good for pushing and farming.
Comparing to DotA 1 is actually a mixed bag. People overstate the effect of not being able to proc while the bounces are still going because while that is a nerf, it's also a big buff that the Maelstrom/Mjollnir no longer totally override other orb effects, and only do so on procs, meaning that buying Mjollnir doesn't screw you out of buying other orbs lategame.
Really it's just that the pace of 6.79 doesn't really support hardcore farming that the major farming items (Mjollnir, Radiance, Battlefury) entail. Radiance and Battle Fury carries are having a tough time recently too.
On January 04 2014 04:28 evilfatsh1t wrote:
the only heroes that would consider building it are 1st or 2nd position heroes. these heroes have so many other items to build that mjolnir is just pushed away. in the damage department items like deso, mkb, daedalus, bfly etc outclass it because of the bonus effects they provide. if youre looking at strictly attack speed, orchid, bfly, assault cuirass etc give good attack speed too but provide more utility for your team. as for aoe damage, it does more than radiance once you get mjolnir, but its also more expensive. people who get radiance and maelstrom for farming purposes want to get it asap. radiance is a much better farming item than maelstrom, especially for lone druid and spectre. basically its too much of an all rounder item which leads it to become a good option for alternatives rather than a first choice
Of note is that it's all-rounder nature actually makes it somewhat appropriate for non-carry heroes that may have to transition into being a carry by nature of how weird shit can happen in pub games (e.g. Windrunner or Lina).
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On January 04 2014 04:25 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2014 04:15 lolfail9001 wrote:
Simple question from someone who watches more than actually plays (aka noob): Why is mjollnir never built on whoever and i have only seen 2 heroes ever get maelstrom. Isn't it one of the best AoE effects on an item (yes, i dare to say superior to radiance)? item is bugged compared to dota 1. Right now you can not proc until the other proc is finished. Which means its worse than it should be, doesn't scale into the lategame, and hits hardest on the heroes that wants it the most. As it stands, its pretty much only good for pushing and farming.
I fucking knew it! now I know why it's so shit on Ember Spirit too
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
He's just getting outclassed by other items and not worth of 5,5k gold.
Void, Medusa, LD and Alchemist are probably only 4 guys which i remember, who're sometimes building mjollnir.
But Void can get madness for less price and after bash upgrade in chronosphere, doesn't require lightning procs.
Medusa is farming a lot of huge items and mjollnir isn't profitable if only you're not feeling totally safe.
LD can get it sometimes i think, but AC still better. If only you have someone like DK (who actually can build lightnings as well sometimes), who's building AC as well, skip it and go for Thor's hammer.
And Alchemist with 3 mjollnirs is fun anyway as Lycan with 3 as well.
Old Razor with lightnings, never forget.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On January 04 2014 05:32 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
He's just getting outclassed by other items and not worth of 5,5k gold.
Void, Medusa, LD and Alchemist are probably only 4 guys which i remember, who're sometimes building mjollnir.
But Void can get madness for less price and after bash upgrade in chronosphere, doesn't require lightning procs.
Medusa is farming a lot of huge items and mjollnir isn't profitable if only you're not feeling totally safe.
LD can get it sometimes i think, but AC still better. If only you have someone like DK (who actually can build lightnings as well sometimes), who's building AC as well, skip it and go for Thor's hammer.
And Alchemist with 3 mjollnirs is fun anyway as Lycan with 3 as well.
Old Razor with lightnings, never forget.
Now madness mode: mjollnir skadi on spectre. From what i recall it is actually legit.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On January 04 2014 05:49 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2014 05:32 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
He's just getting outclassed by other items and not worth of 5,5k gold.
Void, Medusa, LD and Alchemist are probably only 4 guys which i remember, who're sometimes building mjollnir.
But Void can get madness for less price and after bash upgrade in chronosphere, doesn't require lightning procs.
Medusa is farming a lot of huge items and mjollnir isn't profitable if only you're not feeling totally safe.
LD can get it sometimes i think, but AC still better. If only you have someone like DK (who actually can build lightnings as well sometimes), who's building AC as well, skip it and go for Thor's hammer.
And Alchemist with 3 mjollnirs is fun anyway as Lycan with 3 as well.
Old Razor with lightnings, never forget. Now madness mode: mjollnir skadi on spectre. From what i recall it is actually legit.
Every item is viable on Spectre in late game :D
She still rapes whole team.
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Is SnY a good first item on Slark or should I just get Drums and get my core (I like Skadi and BKB as my core...is this correct?) faster?
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
Get orchid or linken.
Don't waste 4100 into nowhere, just get orchid and do your job - snowball.
Don't get Skadi as first item as well.
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On January 04 2014 09:37 Whole wrote:
Is SnY a good first item on Slark or should I just get Drums and get my core (I like Skadi and BKB as my core...is this correct?) faster?
Treads / Drums is awesome since it gives you enough stats to farm the jungle efficiently without losing mana if you Treadswap correctly. Skadi is an awkward "core" item since the stats it gives aren't super efficient and there are usually better options. Orchid is also awkward since your hero doesn't really need the mana but it's reasonable.
Treads Drums -> SnY / Orchid / BKB are probably the smartest options.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
Like serious.
You're building drums for 9 agility? Or for 171 health? Or 12 damage?
You have base ms when roaming as 500+ with threads and lvl 11 ult.
I can understand getting drums on some carries who needs movement speed like LS or just attributes like Gyro, but not Slark, who can get orchid/basher and totally don't care about opponents.
Bkb is reasonable at least, but getting skadi faster than 4-5th item is not worthy because it worth 5675 gold, which is combine cost of Orchid Malevolence and Javelin and 50 gold.
S&Y has same idea behind like drums, just with more damage and more health. And costs 2,5 times more, even though it gets you 14 more damage and 63 health more.
Buy Linken's sphere like Loda does, it gives you required attributes, damage and stuff for 5k + you don't need bkb because you have linken's, dark pact and ult. It's enough already, no need in spending 4k more.
Go linken/basher instead of orchid/basher it's profitable as well.
Even lothar is better than drums and s&y.
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On January 04 2014 11:58 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
Like serious.
You're building drums for 9 agility? Or for 171 health? Or 12 damage?
You have base ms when roaming as 500+ with threads and lvl 11 ult.
I can understand getting drums on some carries who needs movement speed like LS or just attributes like Gyro, but not Slark, who can get orchid/basher and totally don't care about opponents.
Bkb is reasonable at least, but getting skadi faster than 4-5th item is not worthy because it worth 5675 gold, which is combine cost of Orchid Malevolence and Javelin and 50 gold.
S&Y has same idea behind like drums, just with more damage and more health. And costs 2,5 times more, even though it gets you 14 more damage and 63 health more.
Buy Linken's sphere like Loda does, it gives you required attributes, damage and stuff for 5k + you don't need bkb because you have linken's, dark pact and ult. It's enough already, no need in spending 4k more.
Go linken/basher instead of orchid/basher it's profitable as well.
Even lothar is better than drums and s&y.
You suck at numbers. The MS on Drums is never wasted.
Without Drums vs with Drums:
lvl 6: 461 vs 479
lvl 11: 479 vs 497
lvl 16: 497 vs 514
Alternatively lvl 6 with S&Y hits 518 MS and everything more caps it. The only item a Slark needs to farm the jungle as soon as he hits lvl 4 pact is Drums, alternatively a casual Ultimate Orb which kind of sucks donkey balls that early into the game. Or he can build an Orchid which, while efficient for damage, gives him way more mana than he needs to do his job, and doesn't give him any kind of inherent tankyness which the hero desperately needs considering how shitty his stat gain is.
Linkens doesn't give you anything you really want (the regen portion is pretty much completely wasted, it's way too expensive as a farming item for a hero that can farm great with way less gold investment) and the only reason to ever get it on Slark is the spell block which, as always, makes it incredibly game dependent.
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United States47024 Posts
The Linken's Spell Block is even less useful on Slark than it is on most heroes because the majority of spells that you specifically want Linken's instead of BKB for are for the most part dealt with by reaction-casting Dark Pact.
Also, it's amusing how you bash drum and then say "go do what Loda does" when he bought Drums in all 3 tournament games he's played with Slark in 6.79.
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On January 04 2014 11:02 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2014 09:37 Whole wrote:
Is SnY a good first item on Slark or should I just get Drums and get my core (I like Skadi and BKB as my core...is this correct?) faster? Treads / Drums is awesome since it gives you enough stats to farm the jungle efficiently without losing mana if you Treadswap correctly. Skadi is an awkward "core" item since the stats it gives aren't super efficient and there are usually better options. Orchid is also awkward since your hero doesn't really need the mana but it's reasonable. Treads Drums -> SnY / Orchid / BKB are probably the smartest options.
What would be a good core besides Skadi (besides BKB)? It seems like Slark really wants the stats to tank up.
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United States47024 Posts
It depends a lot on the game.
Slark has great skills and pretty good means to get items, whether its by farming or killing. But his base stats are really terrible meaning that you largely have to tailor your items to fill whatever holes you need in that particular game.
Somewhat counterintuitively, Skadi first item is actually a farming item. The only real advantage it has over other items of similar cost as a first item is the high amount of mana it gives you. The double Ultimate Orb is basically endless mana for a hero with such low mana costs as Slark, which allows you to spam Dark Pact endlessly when flash-farming jungle. Obviously other items also give you mana, but Skadi does so without an investment into wasted regen stats, which are basically pointless for him. to have.
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Is there ever a time/reason for a pl to not get a diffusal blade within their first 2 or 3 major items? I mean, besides radiance I don't even see what other options could be not counting mid-game items like drums.
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Thanks for the help Yango.
Also, when is it a good time to get Aghs on Lich and Ancient Apparition?
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On January 04 2014 17:23 Whole wrote:
Thanks for the help Yango.
Also, when is it a good time to get Aghs on Lich and Ancient Apparition?
when you have too much money to spare and no other items to get.
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EPT
