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On October 09 2013 00:05 Oukka wrote:
Is Rod of Atos worth the 3,1k gold on anyone? I feel like slow+20+250hp should be good but I cannot just see who would actually want to spend gold for that instead of blink or forcestaff or harder disables such as sheep or orchid. Is the item just a bit too expensive for what it gives or is it just a niche pickup that works wonders in some very specific scenario but almost useless outside of it?
I like it as a pickup on Rubick or Silencer, usually if I already have a Forcestaff and want either some extra HP or more pick off power, but don't think I'll be able to pick up Sheep any time soon.
Usually at this point we are winning the game, and it doesn't make too much difference either way, but the slow and hp are pretty nice for 3k.
For some reason I was under the impression that the slow went through magic immunity, but it's not there on the wiki so I guess that isn't the case.
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On October 09 2013 14:12 Myrddraal wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2013 00:05 Oukka wrote:
Is Rod of Atos worth the 3,1k gold on anyone? I feel like slow+20+250hp should be good but I cannot just see who would actually want to spend gold for that instead of blink or forcestaff or harder disables such as sheep or orchid. Is the item just a bit too expensive for what it gives or is it just a niche pickup that works wonders in some very specific scenario but almost useless outside of it? I like it as a pickup on Rubick or Silencer, usually if I already have a Forcestaff and want either some extra HP or more killing power, but don't think I'll be able to pick up Sheep any time soon. Usually at this point we are winning the game, and it doesn't make too much difference either way, but the slow and hp are pretty nice for 3k. For some reason I was under the impression that the slow went through magic immunity, but it's not there on the wiki so I guess that isn't the case.
One of the main reasons the item is considered lackluster.
Atos costs 3.1k, BKB costs 3.9k. Almost all the heroes that would get a Rod of Atos have trouble dealing with magic immunity. Most farming positions will consider a BKB. All the farming positions that would consider a Rod of Atos have trouble flash farming because they're spellcasters.
To be honest I am not even sure Rod of Atos active part is superior to Force Staff active part.
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United States47024 Posts
They do different things.
Atos is ok on certain midgame-focused casters. It's actually not all that good on Silencer since Silencer actually starts to want armor and attack speed at the point in time when he can afford an Atos, not more HP and Intelligence.
Zeus and Skywrath Mage are the two best Atos candidates, and even on them, it's pretty situational.
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On October 09 2013 14:52 TheYango wrote:
They do different things.
Atos is ok on certain midgame-focused casters. It's actually not all that good on Silencer since Silencer actually starts to want armor and attack speed at the point in time when he can afford an Atos, not more HP and Intelligence.
Zeus and Skywrath Mage are the two best Atos candidates, and even on them, it's pretty situational.
I was thinking more of a support Silencer, I mean, more attack speed would be nice but having the slow makes up for the fact that he has no stuns or slows whatsoever to help your carries get the kills.
Of course, Sheep would be much more preferable, but also considerably more expensive.
Edit: Actually I have gotten it on silencer as a carry when ahead in the midgame and it was nice for getting pick offs (along with force staff), but I definitely noticed that it was less effective as the game got later.
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I think in general for supports, the rule of thumb is that if you can't afford a sheep, you get a heaven's halberd. Other almost sheeps include orchid and eul's, depending on the hero. I just feel that, while the slow is a powerful chasing tool, it's a little too soft of a disable to be reliable or effective. That being said, I love the item and wish it was more commonly built.
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I guess it really depends what you are having trouble with, Halberd doesn't help you catch anyone, it would only be a better option if you were having trouble with a strong right clicker, Orchid only helps chase if they are escaping with abilities and Eul's has the downside of invulnerability while under the effect and a quite short duration.
Another large benefit of Atos is that it has a pretty huge range (at 1200) so it's generally pretty easy to get off, and coupled with force staff you can get in range and slow someone from a pretty considerable distance.
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Northern Ireland22213 Posts
Atos on Necrolyte is ok, right? Gives him hp which is good to help him tank.
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Ive had success with atos on Necrolyte, but then again Ive had even more success going shadowblade which is cheaper.
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On October 09 2013 18:39 ahswtini wrote:
Atos on Necrolyte is ok, right? Gives him hp which is good to help him tank.
all you want on necrolyte is survivability, in that regard, mek/shivas/ghost are better
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Lalalaland34504 Posts
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582 Posts
maybe if atos can be disassembled or 1 less staff it could be viable. Hello icefraud!~
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lycans howl and ulti affect all controlled creeps.
so he has his 2 wolves + necro3 (sometimes).
why not go dominator and get sth like an alpha to become sth like chens big evil brother?
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How would be Atos on Ursa? I admit it is theory craft and a little bit forced but; it gives hp and negates kiting. I don't mean a TI4 material but may good on pubs?
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Lalalaland34504 Posts
On October 09 2013 22:37 Laserist wrote:
How would be Atos on Ursa? I admit it is theory craft and a little bit forced but; it gives hp and negates kiting. I don't mean a TI4 material but may good on pubs?
Doesn't stop force staffs or ghost scepter.
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On October 09 2013 22:37 Laserist wrote:
How would be Atos on Ursa? I admit it is theory craft and a little bit forced but; it gives hp and negates kiting. I don't mean a TI4 material but may good on pubs?
Wouldn't do anything vs force staff or ghost scepter, and not as important as your core of blink / vlads / BKB. Better to just save up a bit more and go for a sheepstick imo (actually pretty legit on Ursa)
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On October 09 2013 22:48 TheSubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2013 22:37 Laserist wrote:
How would be Atos on Ursa? I admit it is theory craft and a little bit forced but; it gives hp and negates kiting. I don't mean a TI4 material but may good on pubs? Wouldn't do anything vs force staff or ghost scepter, and not as important as your core of blink / vlads / BKB. Better to just save up a bit more and go for a sheepstick imo (actually pretty legit on Ursa)
Neither of BKB/vlad/blink don't nullify force or ghost, so this point is not valid.
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On October 09 2013 23:14 Laserist wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2013 22:48 TheSubtleArt wrote:On October 09 2013 22:37 Laserist wrote:
How would be Atos on Ursa? I admit it is theory craft and a little bit forced but; it gives hp and negates kiting. I don't mean a TI4 material but may good on pubs? Wouldn't do anything vs force staff or ghost scepter, and not as important as your core of blink / vlads / BKB. Better to just save up a bit more and go for a sheepstick imo (actually pretty legit on Ursa) Neither of BKB/vlad/blink don't nullify force or ghost, so this point is not valid.
He didn't imply that.
BKB/Vlads/Blink/Lothars type of items directly increase your ability to manfight people, Atos doesn't. By the time you have those items your issues will be getting kited by force/ghost which is where e.g. Diffusal comes into play. Atos doesn't help you there either.
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On October 09 2013 23:35 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2013 23:14 Laserist wrote:On October 09 2013 22:48 TheSubtleArt wrote:On October 09 2013 22:37 Laserist wrote:
How would be Atos on Ursa? I admit it is theory craft and a little bit forced but; it gives hp and negates kiting. I don't mean a TI4 material but may good on pubs? Wouldn't do anything vs force staff or ghost scepter, and not as important as your core of blink / vlads / BKB. Better to just save up a bit more and go for a sheepstick imo (actually pretty legit on Ursa) Neither of BKB/vlad/blink don't nullify force or ghost, so this point is not valid. He didn't imply that. BKB/Vlads/Blink/Lothars type of items directly increase your ability to manfight people, Atos doesn't. By the time you have those items your issues will be getting kited by force/ghost which is where e.g. Diffusal comes into play. Atos doesn't help you there either.
I didn't mean the other items are bad or whatnot. I am aware of why these items are better, just putting force or ghost on the table doesn't justify core items on Atos, there are others things to justify. I don't know about diffusal on Ursa, he benefits better from HP, orb effect is wasted & just limited purge is not my taste. Sheep is better ofc but is more expensive & hard to build. It depends ofc. Just brainstorming, I think the answer should be 'there are better alternatives'.
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On October 09 2013 23:14 Laserist wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2013 22:48 TheSubtleArt wrote:On October 09 2013 22:37 Laserist wrote:
How would be Atos on Ursa? I admit it is theory craft and a little bit forced but; it gives hp and negates kiting. I don't mean a TI4 material but may good on pubs? Wouldn't do anything vs force staff or ghost scepter, and not as important as your core of blink / vlads / BKB. Better to just save up a bit more and go for a sheepstick imo (actually pretty legit on Ursa) Neither of BKB/vlad/blink don't nullify force or ghost, so this point is not valid.
Are you really implying that you may want to build an Atos instead of Blink or BKB? On Ursa?
Both items are proven to be versatile and for specific tasks(initiating and not getting stunned respectively) invaluable.
While Vlads isn't invaluable, it enables a solo roshan kill as soon as you get it, which is definitely unique in the heropool now after lycan was nerfed.
edit: I think that Atos could actually see some use if it was in the same price category as Dagger/Force Staff.
For comparison, Rod of Atos costs a bit more than Shadowblade. SB comes with straight dps stats, a cheap low cd activate which gives 150 damage for one attack and 20% movespeed on top of invisibility.
Another competitor for HP/Mana is Soul Booster which gives more of both and regeneration of both and builds further into an even better item.
Rod of Atos just isn't worth 3.1k gold. Maybe 2k.
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Invoker/Enigma/TA/Troll/Lone Druid and more can all early-rosh solo. Most simply require a medallion and a few levels (5 to 10)
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EPT
